(Editor’s note: This semi-unfortunate rant was published a week ago, and has since led to these follow-up posts of clarification, Jimmy Carter-level mediation, a Trojan Horse offer (jokes), and a silver-lining-to-this-nonsense essay by a homeschooler. Please read, but take it with a grain of salt. TeacherRevised supports the right of any parent to homeschool their child.)
By JESSE SCACCIA
Homeschooling: great for self-aggrandizing, society-phobic mother…… but not quite so good for the kid.
Here are my top ten reasons why homeschooling parents are doing the wrong thing:
10. “You were totally home schooled” is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm (whether or not the offender was home schooled or not). And… say what you will… but it doesn’t feel nice to be considered an outsider, a natural outcropping of being homeschooled.
9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope). It also shouldn’t be where the family gathers to watch American Idol or to play Wii. Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study. In modern society, we call them schools.
8. Homeschooling is selfish. According to this article in USA Today, students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families. To take these (I’m assuming) high achieving students out of our schools is a disservice to our less fortunate public school kids. Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.
7. God hates homeschooling. The study, done by the National Center for Education Statistics, notes that the most common reason parents gave as the most important was a desire to provide religious or moral instruction. To the homeschooling Believers out there, didn’t God say “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations”? Didn’t he command, “Ye shall be witnesses unto me”? From my side, to take your faithful children out of schools is to miss an opportunity to spread the grace, power and beauty of the Lord to the common people. (Personally I’m agnostic, but I’m just saying…)
6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me, and biology as well as a trained professional, and history… and Spanish… and art… and counsel for college as well as a school’s guidance counselor… and… and…
5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)
4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Unless the student is being homeschooled at the MTV Real World house, there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room. How can a young person learn to appreciate other cultures if he or she doesn’t live among them?
3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.
2. Homeschooling parents are arrogant, Part 2. According to Henry Cate, who runs the Why Homeschool blog, many highly educated, high-income parents are “probably people who are a little bit more comfortable in taking risks” in choosing a college or line of work. “The attributes that facilitate that might also facilitate them being more comfortable with home-schooling.”
More comfortable taking risks with their child’s education? Gamble on, I don’t know, the Superbowl, not your child’s future.
1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.
*** Please see the comments for thoughts on the word ‘geeky.’ But, in general, to be geeky connotes a certain inability to integrate and communicate in diverse social situations. Which, I would argue, is a likely result of being educated in an environment without peers. It’s hard to get by in such a diverse world as ours! And the more people you can hang out with the more likely you are to succeed, both in work life and real life.
One last note, to those homeschooling parents out there: it’s clear from the number and passion of your responses that TeacherRevised is missing an important voice in the teaching community. If any of you are interesting in writing for us, send me an email: jessescaccia@gmail.com. I would love to have you as part of our conversation.
I like your picture above that I am guessing is supposed to be in support of public schooling. FIRST, there is a kid flashing negatively connotated hand signs, and secondly referencing “geeky” kids, look at the clearly older boys dressed in newspaper. My child is well socialized with homeschoolers and with public schooled kids. My child, yearly, runs a lemonade stand to benefit the local Humane Society. While we were running it recently, we were told their were 3 other stands going on in town and that ours was the only one benefiting a charity. How many public schooled children do you know that willing without direction CHOOSE to do such a thing? I can go on and on but I think this suffices my point. Good luck in your life being so closed minded, I hope it gets you far!
D.M.,
First of all, thank you for caring and writing. Disagree with you I might, but I appreciate your passion.
My responses:
1. You assume those are gang signs, why? Because the kids are Latino and black? (Why else?) There are a lot of “hand sings” kids do you probably don’t know about, including ones promoted by WWE wrestlers and Jay-Z, for example.
2. I should have used a more specific/sensitive/useful word than geeky, I’ll admit. But I ask, how do you know that your child is well socialized and not geeky? That your kid does a lemonade stand benefiting the Humane Society is a clear indicator is a good person, but not that he is ungeeky.
3. To take a quick look at the word ‘geeky’… I think it connotes a social awkwardness, and an inability to assimilate well with diverse groups. To think homeschooled kids would be more/equally socially adapt as their public schooled peers is illogical. How can you possibly discount all those hours and months and years of real socialization? Homeschooling might be okay educationally, but socially, I cannot believe that it is a benefit to our kids.
I am very glad to see your students are so well educated on the hand signs made by wrestlers and other social icons, as homeschoolers, most of us are more concerned about the three R’s than hand gestures.
If the fact my children can read and write well and perhaps not know the latest hand signs makes them a geek, then geeks they are, and that makes me proud not ashamed!
Is school meant to educate children or to socialize them? Listening to you and other anti-homeschoolers speak, I am really beginning to believe more emphasis is put on socialization than proper education.
Again, I really believe that the public school setting, is not real life. Nowhere else in life will students be seregated by age, income, and ability level. Not even in college. Last time I visited a college I saw classrooms with students of all ages.
Seeing how it seems the emphasis in school is really socialization and not education, is a psychology degree now needed to teach? Are there special teacher training courses in proper socialization techniques?
Is it better to have my child properly socialized and well versed in hand signs made by wrestlers than to be able to read and write?
Yes, I guess our society is well on it’s way to failing…..
Unfortunately, yes, there are special teacher-training classes on proper socialization techniques. There are seminars, in-service days, faculty meetings, etc… Teachers are taught how to prevent bullying, how to teach children to problem-solve in social settings, how to preserve equality (Don’t let anyone get too far ahead!!! Focus more on the children who are falling behind!), and many other lessons which are not focused on academics.
Our society is well on its way to failing and the majority of children who grow up to be the “problems” come from public schools. Personally, I’d prefer a socially-awkward, law-abiding, better-educated child. And, yes, home-schooled children have, in general, a much better education.
I would like to address some of the misconceptions of home schooling.
10. When my daughter entered college, her professor called her after class and remarked, “You have never spent a day in public school, have you?”
He went on to praise her, yes, praise her on her organizational skills, her ability to not only research but to properly complete a research paper.
9. Where better can a child learn than where they feel the most comfortable and loved.
8. Yes, we are selfish. We decided that our children would learn in an environment condusive for learning. Quiet, free from peer pressure, bullies, disruptions, drugs and sex.
Have you watched T.V. lately? Please address the violence, sex and lack of respect for authority.
7. God instructs us to train our children. Train means to teach. Where has your head been, in the sand? Children are not allowed to pray in school, wear crosses or anything pertaining to religion. Their Christian rights are gone and the reference you speak of, instructs us to witness but the ACLU has tied their hands.
6. I am a retired teacher, enough said.
5. Why because we are doing a better job.
4. You are making judgments based on ignorance. The majority of home schooled children are members of home school co-ops. The co-ops consist of all races, sexes and backgrounds. Please do your homework.
3. Socialization in our home consists of friends, family, church and charity work. Hour for hour my children spend as much time enteracting with their peers as any child in public school. They participate in organized sports with our local leagues, by the way, with a mixture of race, sexes and backgrounds.
They’re home schooled, for goodness sake, not living in a bubble.
2. Our family’s choice is to home school because I saw personally the lack of education going on in the public school system.
1. I challenge you to meet my very socialized children and call them anything but happy and well adjusted.
Sharon, you are solid, wise, and strong. I can tell just by your 10 points.Thank you for replying to J. Scaccia with such truthful, factual, and well written counter points to all of her silly points. Thank you for standing up for the Lord and our children, and brilliantly pointing out the consequences of the ACLU’s demands that shamefully, and to this country’s detriment, became laws.If J. Scaccia’s main concern with homeschooling is that those children become geeks (which is so shallow and ignorant, and a concern not even worthy to be listed), then she needs to read “Bringing Up Geeks-How To Protect Your Kids Childhood In A Grow-Up-Too-Fast World”, by MaryBeth Hicks, a columnist, author, and mother. This book has been highly praised and endorsed by Dr. Kimberly Thompson, Associate Professor, Harvard School of Public Health, L. Brent Bozell, founder of Parents Television Council, and Chris Hassen, Dateline NBC correspondent and author, to name only a few. I also would like to inform Scaccia that, by his own admission, Bill Gates was considered a geek too. Further more, if Scaccia’s views represent the typical teacher in public schools, then I’d take caring and concerned Mom’s- without double Masters- any day. And, J Scaccia, for your own sake and for the sake of the children you teach, please re-think your thinking and, not trying to be rude, but get a grip on real reality.
I just wanted to point out… Students ARE allowed to wear crosses, pray in school, etc, etc.
Also, nearly all homeschooling families are white, middle to upper class, Protestants.
I am seventeen and recently switched from public school to homeschooling. However, this was due to medical issues. Public school certainly has its faults, but in the lower grades, it is very useful. Students learn how to deal with bullying, peer pressure, et cetera early on, while the circumstances are not yet so serious. As a homeschool student, the only benefit I find is that I work when I want on what I want. Self-learning isn’t for everyone, and it is very rarely something good for younger people.
A foundation is required for proper development. I can’t tell you how many teens I’ve met who were homeschooled during the early grades and… ho-boy are they behind. I mean, I’m sure adults love them and all, but they’re the kinds of kids who end up with very few friends because they are awkward and say and do a lot of socially inappropriate things. I feel really bad for them because they tend to be awful at adapting to new social situations.
You mean socially awkward things, like calling others names and making fun of others…just as you have done?
Nice way to show how “socialized you are”.
You are only 17, so you still have time to mature and actually think that part of the grown up world is learning to deal with bullying and peer pressure. lol If I go to work and get bullied I sue, if I get pressure to do drugs at work, I report it.
Public school is nothing like that. You become brainwashed to keep your head down and your mouth shut…no matter how popular you are. This is from experience.
I am just laughing at the anti-comments on this. You guys and gals are a barrel of laughs.
Emma says nearly all homeschooling families are white, middle-to-upper class Protestants. Hmmm, our homeschool group has blacks, whites, Muslim, Christian, New-Age, Pakistani, British, American….the list goes on. It’s a more diverse group than the kids pictured above and certainly doesn’t fit Emma’s description.
Actually this depends on the school and the school districts. There are many schools where you are not allowed to wear or say/do anything religious.
Excuse me, I beg to differ. I was homeschooled for three years; first, second and third grade. I now go to public high school and I admit that I enjoy it. However, I think that those years that I was educated at home were a vital part of my development. I actually learned that I like to learn (shocking I know). I became closer with my family and also made some very close friends (both who were in and out of public school). Perhaps I am the rare case but I have plenty of friends and find that I am just as adjusted as any other student in my school.
Kudos, Emma. Good luck with homeschooling. I was homeschooled for 3 years and then switched schools. I’ve never regretted anything more than homeschooling. All the parents want to argue with you, Emma, but were they ever homeschooled? Parents keep saying it is what is right, it is what is good, it is what protects children, it is what God wants, etc. etc. etc. Next time you want to argue for homeschooled children, go ask the actual homeschooled children how they felt about it, after they’re out of school and can reflect back on it without fear of hurting their parents’ feelings. I as a matter of fact was a devout Christian until I was homeschooled, and quickly decided their is definitely no God. Now I am just an angry atheist, with three years of wasted time.
This statement is a good example of the true reason for home schooling, “Children are not allowed to pray in school” Not true. This isn’t about a better scholarly education, it’s about indoctrination.
Anyone can pray in school, but your children have been told other wise.
America is pushing nations like Saudi Arabia to crack down on their schools that teach Islamic extremism. Of course the Islamic parents react the same way as evangelicals home school parents react.
Public schools need to be fixed because with out them, we will become radicalized and dumb; our constitution will fail.
The more secular a nation the more moral, just and fair it is.
“The more secular a nation the more moral, just and fair it is.” Really? Wow! That is the most rediculous and ignorant statement I have ever read. Where do morals come from if the nation is secular. If everyone believes there own thing then there is no truth and there are NO morals.
Sharon I totally respect your writing and everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but I don’t agree with homeschooling. I went to a public school and I feel that I learned a lot (both educationally and socially). I have been opened to many things in the social world that I would never have seen if my parents taught me at home. I met all kinds of kids from poor to rich, LD to genius, and kids from other countries. I’m not trying to bash homeschooling at all, I’m just stating that I think you are open more to the world as a whole in a public school. I agree, the education is probably better at home because you are forced to listen to your parents, but schooling isn’t just about education, it’s about gaining experience with others and seeing a ton of situations you wouldn’t see at home. I also just thought about what if I didn’t go to school, I wouldn’t have 80% of the friends that I do now because I met them through the school. I think school made me more of a social person also. Thanks for listening
I agree, the education is probably better at home because you are forced to listen to your parents,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
No, homechooling is not better because “you are forced to listen to your parents.” It’s better because my child (who is finishing her public high school journey) learned independently, nourished her love of learning, did geometry as a 12-year old by the fire in her jammies, read to abandon, and bonded with family.
Because we used our time wisely (my biggest beef with school), my daughter had more time for friends and field trips and what we in school call extra-curriculars. We didn’t waste our time on NCLB. We had more important things to do. And I’m just getting started on all she (and by extension, the family) were able to do. Carpe diem. Seize the day. Don’t waste time. Would that school heeded this call as well.
My daughter awoke when she was rested, ate when she was hungry, went to the bathroom when she needed to go to the bathroom, and she learned at the most optimal time of day for her. You know that saying, homeschoolers can do twice as much in half the time? We didn’t waste time and had plenty left over for yet more learning.
“Being forced to listen to your parents” is what school is all about. It’s called homework.
I’d like to thank you for the descriptive explanations of why parents choose to home school. I’d like to add another reason to it. I used to get calls from my son’s school at least once a week complaining to me about his behavior. He was caught with pocket knives, he would give inappropriate notes to little girls, he would get into fights with his own friends, etc. How he learned all of this by the age of 8, I don’t know. But I do know that he didn’t learn it at home. I assumed the school wanted me to do something about it, because they certainly didn’t want to. So I chose to home school him to keep him from learning any further bad behavior from the very school that had the nerve to complain to me about him. If that is selfish, then I am guilty. I am home schooling him to protect him.
Maybe you could’ve just scolded your kid.
Sharon: #8–You spelled something wrong. I’ll let you figure it out. SO many self righteous, arrogant homeschoolers who frequently spell things incorrectly. Yet, they are “teaching” their children. I wonder what else they are getting wrong? If people want to homeschool, fine, but the “I’m so much better than you” attitude has got to go!
Suzie: I just wanted to point out that Ms. “Double Major, Two Masters” also made an error in her article. “If any of you are interesting in writing for us, send me an email:” I’ll let YOU figure it out. Evidently, SO many self righteous, arrogant public school English teachers frequently write things incorrectly. Yet they are “teaching” other people’s children. I wonder what else they are getting wrong? (BTW – I could also point out a major sentence fragment in your response, but that is beside the point and would probably come across as “arrogant”) Maybe homeschoolers could drop the “I’m so much better than you” attitude if they did not constantly feel like they had to defend themselves against hateful, baseless articles like this one. If you truly believe that it is “fine” if we want to homeschool, then leave us alone and let us do it, and we will let you educate your children the way that you feel is best. Can’t we just agree that we ALL have our children’s best interests at heart?
I absolutely have to second this. I was nearly at the end of my Elementary Education certification classes (I already held an undergraduate degree in Psychology and Child Development), when I realized I wasn’t buying anything they were selling.
I packed up my books, pretend lesson plans, and notes and never looked back. I had a 3 year old at the time who was in preschool, and we chose to take him out of preschool and he’s been homeschooled ever since. He’s 14 now.
Homeschooling offers him (and his sister and brother) a freedom he would never have had in school. My kids are able to spend as much time on something that interests them as they like, and hey… they still have time for subjects they don’t care for as much too.
Socialization in schools? I’ll pass. My kids are authentic and kind. They aren’t caricatures of people on t.v. Oh wait… we don’t do t.v. either. We don’t even have one. Too busy I guess.
–Laura
The only reason that “the majority of children who grow up to be the “problems” come from public schools” is because there are many, many, many more public school students than homeschool. There are also many “problems” that never get caught. The one’s that are caught are probably the one’s that come from low income areas.
I am a Pentecostal minister and I am very concerned with how we as Christians have let Satan deceive us to the extent we have let and is letting him rum rampant in our society and especially our public schools while destroying our children. I blame the Church, as I know God does. The Church has not truly fast and prayed to bring about revival in this nation or the world. We have been too busy trying to satisfy our flesh, the pride of life and the pride of the eye. In doing so, we have voted in unsaved men and women into public office that cater more to the needs of the wicked and ungodly than to the satisfying our Lord Jesus Christ. We have embellished the believe that God’s will is to have a ‘separation of Church and State’ but the Bible historically shows us that God has been and is our King as he reminded Israel when it chose Saul for their King, and King Nebuchadnezzar when he claim God’s glory for himself and was turned into to wilderness for 7 years while being dispossessed of his throne.
When the governments of England, Europe and other nations sought to diminish God’s sovereign will in their lives and abuse his church by enacting laws that oppressed his children while seeking to squash the anointing in their lives and their triumphant perfection in Christ Jesus, God brought a seed to AMERICA. This seed was to establish a new beginning where there would be pure religion. Where Jesus could be world and without bonds and God’s Kingdom could advance in the hearts of men and in turn evangelize the world. God brought the Puritans over and other religious group who were not perfect but they all acknowledged that Jesus Christ was Lord. Lord means King, ruler. Paul reminds us in II Corinthians, “Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is there is Liberty”
Individuals have questioned who America was named after but AM ER I CA was named after it’s maker, “I AM THAT I AM.” Here is what we find when we look at “What’s in a name?!” I and AM refer to God even as Jesus, the Son, referred to himself numerous times as “I AM” i.e. I am bread, I am light, I am drink, I am life, I am truth. CA refers to the word came. ER means where from. ER is also the abbreviation for Europe.
There are many more names, terms and phrases that witness to fact that Jesus chose America for a special purpose. Space here prevents me from going into if further. Yet should you wish more information on this you may email me at (tmclendon@hot.rr.com) I have two books currently our entitled “Satan Loose in Public Schools and Loving It or Psychology of the Devil Course I II and II, and Satan Loose in Public Schools and Loving It Part II or Reverse Psychology of the Devil Backfired.” To look at the last book check out https://www.createspace.com/3444773. Jesus will bless you if you share this with other who may wish to share the truth.
have you ever heard of Amerigo Vespucci?
How can you say that ‘real life’ and colleges are not segregated by income, race, age, etc… etc… ????? When was the last time you heard that a graduate from a Detroit charter school attended Harvard? The ‘EC’ activities (take special note of the ‘E’ in ‘EC’, please), which are so highly regarded by Ivy League colleges in the United States, are hardly enough to make a student stand out from the tens of thousands whom apply, unless they spend $1,000′s of their parents’ money to go ‘above and beyond standard expectations’.
To scoff at the kid in the above picture, and the teacher who wrote this blog, indicating that they are ‘less educated’ because they flash a hand gesture made popular by Jay-Z, or a WWE wrestler, shows how close-minded you are.
I attended public schools. I ended up going to a private art college, only because it had, hands down, the best design curriculum out of a huge pool of public colleges who offer a mundane ‘fine art program’ (our world is made up of art, whether it’s in the design of your shoes, the vehicle you drive – my personal major, or a painting hanging on your wall… Just sayin’). I am also a very accomplished pianist, as well as artist. Surely someone who homeschools their child can appreciate the value of ‘the arts’.
I’ve known homeschooled kids, as well as those who graduated… And I emphasize the word “graduated”… from public schools. I am more than happy to say that I had a chance to grow up with a myriad of people from different backgrounds – whether it be age, race, social standing (or that of their parents). There’s nothing in the world I would trade it for!
The issue I have with the “social awkwardness” argument is, with whom are they socially awkward?
I was home schooled for part of my growing up years and was admittedly a “geek”. I was a geek in private elementary school, I continued to be a geek while home schooled in 8th and 9th grade and I was a geek in public high school.
I was always socially awkward around kids my age (because I found them to be silly), but related very well to adults and to younger children. The school classroom environment does not mirror the social environment at any work place I have ever been in. In school it is the child, 30 other kids of their own age and 1 older person who the child never really develops a relationship with (in my experience that adult spends most of their time working at controlling the crowd of students in their charge). In my workplace and in my family (the 2 places we all must assimilate ourselves into as an adult) I am around very few people of my own age and many people younger and older than myself. My socialization n my family and with the adults I developed relationships with as a child have served me very well in adulthood.
The folks my own age who considered me to be a geek may have been right, but who cares? I am a successful, socially responsible member of society!
I was a complete geek as a kid. I was completely educated in public school. Unfortunately going to public school does not guarantee you will be accepted or fit in. Quite the opposite, my peers made every attempt to help me stand out. Regardless I went on to college and to be a productive member of society. Of course lots of therapy helps. My kids go to public school. I just found out from my daughter that one of the boys likes to expose himself all the time and the teacher doesn’t believe her when she tells him. She is in 2nd grade. There has to be a better way.
The IDIOT wrote:
“10. “You were totally home schooled” is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm”
And those dumbass college kids matter why?
“9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf … Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study. In modern society, we call them schools.”
I think students should have a place to study as well – in fact most homeschoolers do as well. That’s why they set aside a room in their house, if they can, for no other purpose. Also, look at any public school and you’ll see students texting on their cellphones, not learning, buying drugs, etc. That’s modern society.
“8. Homeschooling is selfish. According to this article in USA Today, students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families.”
Yet you condemn homeschooling? Let me get this straight. You admit that increasingly the best families in terms of wealth and education are choosing to homeschool and yet you make no connection between that fact and the families’ wealth and educational SUCCESS? So they should send their kids to crappy public schools to be UNSELFISH? You’re a moron. Clearly you went to public school.
“7. God hates homeschooling. The study, done by the National Center for Education Statistics, notes that the most common reason parents gave as the most important was a desire to provide religious or moral instruction. To the homeschooling Believers out there, didn’t God say “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations”? Didn’t he command, “Ye shall be witnesses unto me”? From my side, to take your faithful children out of schools is to miss an opportunity to spread the grace, power and beauty of the Lord to the common people. (Personally I’m agnostic, but I’m just saying…) “
Kids can be great beacons of light in dark places, but they also have to be properly cared for and raised AND EDUCATED. If parents decide that means homeschooling them, then guess what?
“6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me, and biology as well as a trained professional, and history… and Spanish… and art… and counsel for college as well as a school’s guidance counselor… and… and…”
Again, you’re an idiot. Homeschoolers don’t need guidance counselors. They can learn almost any subject that is taught in a regular school with greater speed and retention than the poor deprived kid stuck in a classroom. Also, they will avoid child rapists working as teachers, liberalism couched as lessons, morons like yourself and other fools who think that education is only reducible to pieces of colorful paper called degrees (I have five of them by the way so cut me some slack. I know what I’m talking about.)
“5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)”
Why? Why would success and family togetherness piss you off? Isn’t that rather childish on your part? Do public libraries also piss you off? Gee, someone might be learning something in there without you controlling them!!!
“4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism.”
And, gee, we know public schools have no problems at all with racism or intolerance or, for that matter, anti-Christian attitudes, liberalism, socialism, communism, homosexuality, “free love”, drug use, anti-Americanism, reverse racism, affirmative action, waste, fraud, low standards, stupidity, and ignorance, right?
“Unless the student is being homeschooled at the MTV Real World house, there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room. How can a young person learn to appreciate other cultures if he or she doesn’t live among them?”
First, why exactly does he have to appreciate other cultures, and what exactly does “appreciate” mean? Secondly, is this America? Last time I checked it was. If I raise him to appreciate America – the country he lives in – how am I in the wrong? Also, why do you assume that “other cultures” is analogus to racial identity. That’s racist in itself. There is no American race. You might want to look at a successful school – a successful public school – probably unlike the one you work at. Look at the American Indian Charter School in Oakland, California and then realize what a typical liberal fool you are. The LA Times just did a fascinating – and sadly left-wing – article on that excellent school yesterday.
“3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.”
BS!!! The most socially retarded morons I ever met were products of public schools.
“2. Homeschooling parents are arrogant, Part 2. According to Henry Cate, who runs the Why Homeschool blog, many highly educated, high-income parents are “probably people who are a little bit more comfortable in taking risks” in choosing a college or line of work. “The attributes that facilitate that might also facilitate them being more comfortable with home-schooling.” More comfortable taking risks with their child’s education? Gamble on, I don’t know, the Superbowl, not your child’s future.”
They aren’t gambling on their kids’ future. Notice, they’re not sending them to public schools!!! I would want my kids to be risk takers. They might fail often, but they will also find success. If I left them to you, you would sissify them and make them dependent upon Uncle Sam. You would make my children left-wing, empty headed wage slaves/parasites like yourself. I have to support your lazy, barely working, unionized carcass with my tax dollars and for what? So kids can graduate barely able to read? Idiot!
“1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.”
Strange. I always thought of the homeschooling kids I met as successful scholarship winning students at major universities. One I know especially well is studying for a PhD. Others I know have gone to college, gotten degrees, married, had kids, work good jobs and don’t put self-embarrassing crap on the internet as you have. Who’s the geek here?
“One last note, to those homeschooling parents out there: it’s clear from the number and passion of your responses that TeacherRevised is missing an important voice in the teaching community. If any of you are interesting in writing for us, send me an email: jessescaccia@gmail.com. I would love to have you as part of our conversation.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Wow, you threw in the towel pretty quickly. You went from hating them to wanting to hire them! Fools.
Well Said vladimir998. I don’t have much to add except that the only sign of intelligence this blogger has show is that she (he?) has chosen a topic of controversy which has drawn attention to her blog. Perhaps her real talent is not teaching but marketing.
I think vladimir998 said it all and said it best. I love homeschooling. I have a blast with my kids! I wouldn’t trade my life for anything and I am grateful to my husband who is willing to be a sole ‘breadwinner’ so I may pursue my fabulous career as a home school mom.
I did, however, google that Indian charter school article from the LA times that vladimir998 mentioned and found some fascinating reading. If I couldn’t home school, that is a school I would have my kids in….at least I know they would NOT have representatives from GLSEN (http://www.massresistance.org/docs/issues/fistgate/index.html)
come in to teach the kids about “fisting”. (Warning: DO NOT google THAT!)
dina
if I had ever attended public school I would say something like “CHA-CHING!” but “That was a great post!” will have to do!
I completely agree with vladimir998. The only thing I might add is that in this article it talks about being tolerant and accepting differences and how home schooled kids would have trouble with that. It is interesting to me that this article seems attacking and not tolerant of any opinion about home schooling that is different from the writers. So, I suppose the writer must have been Home schooled as a child because he comes off pretty intolerant and arrogant as well.
“And, gee, we know public schools have no problems at all with racism or intolerance or, for that matter, anti-Christian attitudes” Like I said, has nothing to do with scholarly education, it’s about indoctrination and with the free flow of information truth wins, home schooling prevents the free flow of information.
Not all parents are qualifies to home school and not all public schools are qualified to teach. At least the schools can be monitored and fixed.
Calling someone an idiot for their opinion is rude.
Oh my…I don’t even know where to start…the writer of this article is the most ignorant, intolerant, arrogant person of all…so, going by the definition of “homeschooler” in this blog entry, that means he/she is a homeschooler, right?
Homeschoolers have the opportunity to learn so much more than public schools offer. When my children were in public school, they were bored because the school can only teach as fast as the slowest learner can understand. My daughter BROKE HER ARM and the school kept her at school, still forcing her to write in class, and never called me. My daughter (who is 7, doing 3rd & 4th grade work now) graduated Kindergarten without knowing how to read. My daughter learned more about sex, drugs, bullying, and crime than she did academic subjects.
Now, my children get a great education tailored to their style of learning. They play sports. They discuss current events every day.
If this is having “ignorant” and “geeky” kids, bring it on! I live in TX; we have lots of different cultures here, and my children are certainly exposed to it all on a daily basis.
To the author of this article: you make negative claims about homeschoolers, based on your ignorance of the topic. I think you should look at yourself before you begin casting stones at others.
Well said, for the most part. If not for the bigotry, yours would have been the most convincing argument of all. For someone who is seemingly intelligent, I’m surprised you subscribe so readily to any partisan political agenda, but it’s pretty obvious you’ve bought wholesale into the “right-wing” program. Christian, Anti-Gay and Classist.
I’m sure you’re raising perfectly educated intellects. Hopefully, they’re not as angrily ignorant such as yourself.
okay, look – I appreciate you trying to stand up for us homeschool kids, I really do, but calling the author an idiot is not going to convince her that she’s wrong. In fact, it supports the argument that homeschoolers are arrogant (an argument, by the way, which I have never heard of before today – I’ve never personally met a homeschooler or homeschool parent who goes around boasting about their intelligence, but there may be some out there).
Homeschoolers and public schoolers don’t have to be enemies! This is not a war and we are not children who must resort to name calling (geeks, idiots, etc.) to make their point.
homeschooling sucks
Funny how you don’t like that some one assumes the kids in your picture are throwing gang signs, but it is okay for you to assume all homeschoolers are geeky. I guess knowing the latest hand gestures make you cool, and not geeky. That is what’s important, right?
By the way, I am glad my kids don’t have to be around an adult that resorts to put-downs and name calling of children to make herself feel better.
Oh honey, you are SOOO missing the boat on the socialization issue. I have an anecdote for you. My oldest, at 18, went to college, and Ohio State University branch campus focused on Agriculture, Horticulture and Business. The first time I visited the campus (on parent’s day) we were walking from one building to the next and I swear every single person we passed said “Hi Rachel”.
The really funny socialization story happened in her second year. She worked on campus and was very friendly with several of her instructors. One day she was eating lunch at a table with one other student and three instructors, two of whom knew her well and one who had never met her. The subject of homeschooling arose because a local newspaper had just done a very negative series on the subject. The instructor who didn’t now my daughter said, “Well, they may get a good education, but what about socialization – how do they ever learn to function with people?” One of the other profs, pointed to Rachel and said, “Ask her. She should know, she was homeschooled.” I think knowing that one of the most popular kids on campus, one who was equally popular with the instructors was homeschooled changed that woman’s whole outlook on homeschooling.
What I find most humorous about the socialization issue though, goes back to my own days in school. First, there was the number of times I heard a teacher say, “We aren’t here to socialize, people. Quiet down and put your noses back in your books”. Second, there is the number of friends I had in school compared to the numbers my kids had away from school. When I was in school I had one friend at best and most of the socialization I got was definitely not the kind that served me well as an adult. I learned that much later in college and after college.
At this point, I’ve been homeschooling for 15 years and I’ve met hundreds of homeschooled families along the way. I have only met one family out of those hundreds who restricted who their kids could socialize with. The rest have had kids who could not only socialize with their own age group, but with adults and children younger then themselves too. I’ve actually met more students in various school settings who seemed sheltered to the point of inability to socialize. But I don’t blame that on the schools. No matter the setting, the few fundamentalists who are that extreme will be that extreme with their children.
I find it fascinating that you think young people who spend almost their entire day with their peers are better able to “assimilate well with diverse groups”. My now grown children, who were all totally or partially homeschooled have had no difficulty in assimilating into society, either in their jobs, or in college. I will point out, however, that I am very grateful that they have not chosen to accept the premise that being “part of the group” is preferable to being true to their individual likes and dis-likes.
1. I see your idea of public school, according to your picture, does not include the caucasion race. Notice on your picture, there is not one white kid. So according to your argument, these kids are not getting the education they need becuase not all the races are represented in their school. Oh, wait, I forgot, white people don’t count becuase they are the only racist people in the world and should be excluded for their racist ideas, unless they are liberal of course.
I find it funny that in order for my kids to be raised properly they must embrace every race except their own. In fact, it would be better if they rejected their race and pretended to be another. Every other race in America is encouraged to embrace their heritage and culture to keep it alive, except mine. Becuase my heritage is Christian, and white.
So I suppose your narrowminded view is, you can exclude and be prejudice against me, but I am not socially adept unless I embrace every other race that rejects me. Hmmmm.
2. Don’t quote the Bible until you’ve read it, ALL. Taking one scripture out of the context of the entire Bible, is not the proper way to build an argument. But with all your degrees and writing experience, I’m sure you know that to be true of any literature, including the Bible. However, even the best writers, well no, just the liberal writers, fall victim to using resources out of context in order to prove their point, becuase it can’t be proven without deceit.
The Bible clearly states over and over again, that parents, especially mothers, must train their children. Nowhere does it say that parents must allow their children to be taught by liberal agnostics, like yourself.
In Matthew 28, I believe Jesus was commanding those adults who are mature enough to withstand the temptations the world offers, to go make disciples. I’m pretty sure not one of the people standing there when He said those words were 5 year olds. In fact, He commanded Peter to “feed my lambs”, not send them out to the wolves for slaughter.
3. I may not have a degree in every subject I am teaching my children, but I did go to school myself for almost 20 years, and learned the very same subjects they will be studying. Am I weak in some, yes. But it’s amazing what our library holds, and what can be found on the internet these days.
I find it interesting though, that you believe I cannot teach English as well as you, and shouldn’t be allowed to teach my children English becuase I don’t have multiple degrees in it (just one minor), yet you feel you have enough religious knowledge as an agnostic that you can use the Bible (which I do have a degree in) to argue your point with me.
Also, are you not aware that your public school system is hiring teachers without a teaching degree, and allowing them to earn it as they teach? My friend has a degree in psychology and is teaching Kindergarten. Hmmm, can’t really find the connection there? My sister-in-law has a degree in religion, yet is teaching Jr. High English, literature and history. Hmm, again, no connection.
You really should, as an experienced writer, think through and research your arguments better before you publish them. But I guess that’s the best public school could do with you, teach you to be one sided rather than fair. I wouldn’t hire you as one of my writers (and yes, I worked as the assistant editor on my college newspaper), purely based on the fact that you think the fact that it pisses you off is a reasonable enough point to publish. A well educated writer would know that to convince your readers of your point, you should come up with well thought out, factual, reasonable arguments, not your own opinion as a nobody in the homeschool culture.
Seriously, is just the fact that it pisses you off the only thing you could come up with? I could do better arguing your point and I disagree totally.
Just one more thing. If you actually researched something that isn’t just liberal, you would find one study that showed children that were homeschooled by parents that were not certified teachers, scored higher in academics than those homeschooled by parents that are certified teachers.
And Camille said that teachers are trained not to let any children get ahead and focus on those that are falling behind. Which means, if my child proves to be a step ahead of his class, he will be encouraged to hold back and not reach his full potential, while being ignored by his teacher so she can work more with those students who struggle. Sounds like a good system that’s worth risking his intellectual growth just so we can make sure he can “socialize” in a way he will never be required to socialize as an adult. Thanks Camille for just one more reason I feel confident I am doing the rigth thing.
I was planning to read all the responses before posting my own reply. But all this liberal bashing is more than I can take! *I* am a secular, liberal homeschool mom! There are as many homeschoolers like me as there are of the right-wing religious fundamentalist types.
There is nothing “liberal” about the hyper-authoritarian, undemocratic, totalitarian, dog-eat-dog-competitive, soul-crushing way in which our public schools are run!
I’ll post my response to the original article later.
That is refreshing, Linda. I am a conservative parent, and I agree with your points. The truth is, we home schoolers frighten the establishment. Schools lose funding when students are pulled from their enrollment. Of course they don’t like that!
Public school administrators and teachers are predominantly liberal, if the information I have read is correct. I think this accounts for the tendency to typecast home schoolers as right-wing Bible thumpers. Since home schoolers compete for students, we are the natural enemies of public schools. I would not be surprised if this teacher is completely blind to the fact that many liberal families also home school. We are not a homogeneous lot, and our reasons for taking on this challenge are as diverse as our backgrounds.
However, I do believe that there is one common thread: we see it as our responsibility to provide the best we can for our children. We will not be bullied into sacrificing them on the altar of the public good. Who are the teaching professionals to determine what is best for all of society and to engineer it to their own vision?
Educators liberal, hmm. I left teaching for a big part because I felt unable to teach anything the least bit creative or “out of the box” schools are hardly liberal. We homeschool, as two ex-teachers, precisely because the schools were too conservative and that they taught through a exclusively Christian perspective (try explaining to your child why his class gets a Christmas party and treats Chanukah as a foreign event to be studied). Yes there are some very liberal people in education but there are just as many conservatives.
I think the “Liberal” in which most these posts are referring is the liberal leaning of the public school’s curriculum, in general. I do wish that folks would take the time, when posting, to be more reflective and exact when expressing their thoughts, but I think bashing is an quick and easy response (on either side) when commenting on blogs. (In this case, a “blah”g.)
Homeschooling ought not be an “anti-liberal” campaign. Actually, by it’s purest definition, Homeschooling is very much against the status quo, and some would identify that as Liberal.
For the record, our homeschool lifestyle is very free-spirit and family oriented, interested in pursuing what we love and love to learn while not terribly concerned about performance, other than personal responsibility to guard against laziness, apathy and strife towards others and family members. However, we are a praying family and acknowledge God as final and ultimate Authority so that would probably classify us as the “right-wing fundamentalist type”.
You know how; for every child you have there’s a different kind? Same is true for Homeschools. Observe enough of them and you’ll find 1 of each type. Glad to know you’re out there!
Linda, you are a classic ‘old school’ liberal. The new liberalism is quite different, and I dare say intolerant even of fellow liberals…look what the Obama campaign did to Hilary supporters. I even got to feeling sorry for them.
If you don’t believe me, can you imagine conservative college students being allowed to have an old fashioned sit in like they had in the 60′s?
No way!
d.
Linda..thankyou, from yet another moderately liberal homeschooling family.
Linda,
As neither a parent, nor homeschooled student, I feel a little out of place here, but I’ll push on. In reading many of the comments, I noticed a distinctive “right” lean to many of the comments. I appreciate your “liberal” perspective, as I find myself somewhat more inclined that direction. I agree with you wholeheartedly, and as a liberal Christian, it is heartening to see I won’t be entirely alone.
Mu husband and I are starting the process of researching our educational options for our future (hopefully near!) children, and I find many of the opinions here…if not entirely in line with my own beliefs, at least they are enlightening.
Hurrah, Linda! I am peeved to no end by religious homeschoolers who claim they have a lock on home education. And I am tired of the assumption that I homeschool for religious reasons. I am secular and liberal. I chose to homeschool because my daughter’s school thought her extra-curricula activities were interfering with her academics. When I realized that her activities were more valuable, and that she could actually do both in a more efficient and effective way at home, I took her out of school. That was in 5th grade. She is now in college, having graduated a year early, has a full academic scholarship, and carries 19 credits a semester so she can graduate in four years with a double major. Oh, and yes, she works too. As she readied herself to leave the nest, I realized that my most important job as a parent was to prepare her to be successful and responsible citizen. Check and check. Neither of these required a) a public school education; b) a religiously moral upbringing.
I have public schooled my older kids and am now homeschooling. While you extol the socialization opportunities of school, my kids were told repeatedly that they were there to learn, not socialize. Recess has been eliminated in many schools. Where exactly do you see the socialization in the public schools?
Further, if one were so inclined, one could point out that your photo of kids supposedly being exposed to many other cultures shows only 2. Has the variety of cultures in the US suddenly shrunk to this degree?
Sorry…I hit send too early. I also meant to ask you how, if you are an English teacher, you have trouble with a simple English word like “selfish”:
You wrote, “Homeschooling is selfish. According to this article in USA Today, students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families. To take these (I’m assuming) high achieving students out of our schools is a disservice to our less fortunate public school kids.”
My child is NOT myself. If I want what is best for my child, I am not being selfish. Maybe I’m being “childish”.
“… you think you can teach English as well as me …”
As well as I, perhaps? I believe that’s an elliptical clause. But then what do I know? I’m just an idiot home-school mom. I have degrees, but not in English, by the way.
PeggyPenguin,
As I’ve written elsewhere, I consider this you-vs.-I usage a choice. “as well as I” just sounds stuffy and elitist to me, so I never use it.
You are a study in contradiction then, aren’t you?
Shockingly, your decision to reconstruct the English language, may not have universal acceptance. If you are a teacher, then your choice is imposed upon the families of the children in your class. This is the problem, many of the choices teachers make are in conflict with the views of the parents. Many teachers feel an entitlement to rewrite the rules as they see fit, rather than abide by them. They often times have a different view of what areas of education should be focused on as well. A Liberal arts education, in what is really a vastly easier area of study than many other majors does not make you infallible, only prone to thinking that you are.
A student taught by you, who goes on to College, will learn that if “Me think you can teach English” sounds wrong, then “You think you can teach English as well as me.” is also wrong. Unfortunately they will learn this lesson to the detriment of their GPA.
What a load! Using proper grammar “sounds stuffy and elitist?” News for you: proper grammar is inexpensive or free to learn for everyone, an EQUALIZER! The inquisitive one can buy a grammar book (hint: the pre-progressive-ed, i.e. pre-1920, ones tell you straight, what is correct and what is incorrect, and an original costs often only $10 or $15 on Amazon), check one out of a library, download a free e-book version from Google Books or Internet Archive, or ask questions of an English teacher, one who learned it right in the first place, has no intentions of withholding any of it from students or pupils, and desires to PROMOTE, rather than THWART their rise in society.
“Two cultures” is overly generous. We all can see clearly it’s one culture, of the lowest sort: gang. I don’t buy that suggestion about the wrestling. Where is the proof of pro wrestlers making these very signs? Regardless of the origin of the signs, we know they glorify violence, and because they are commonly SEEN as gang signs, it is utterly shameful that the behavior has been encouraged by an authority figure, publicized, and used in a masthead.
Here is the alternative to home schooling…glad that teaching credentials are “proof of concept” that an educated professional is somehow “better” for ALL children…
Wow! You are passionate about your beliefs. Unfortunately, your glaring grammatical errors reduce your argument to mere opinion.
Here are two examples:
“…double major in English and education”
[Comment: leaving out the preposition "in" prior to the word, education, changes the meaning.]
“… you think you can teach English as well as me [sic]? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me [sic]…”
[Comment: the grammatically correct case is the subjective, not the objective. You should have written, …”as well as I (can teach)?”
Laura
Ivy League graduate, former middle school math and Latin teacher, current homeschool parent who is teaching her children grammatically correct English all by herself at home
http://www.wpri.com/dpp/news/local_news/local_wpri_massachusetts_aspiring_school_teachers_fail_in_math20090519
nuff said?
But at least it was only a licensing exam, they are not teachers…yet.
Here’s one of my favorites:
http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/may/24/30gtteacher-lets-students-vote-out-classmate-5/
A public school teacher stands an autistic child up in front of the classroom, asks the class to tell him what they don’t like about him, and then has the class vote on whether or not he can stay.
Nicely done, public school!
What I mean to say is that just because a person has a teaching degree doesn’t mean s/he is a better teacher for a child than the child’s own parents and all the other children, adults, resources, and experiences that homeschooled children can enjoy.
I love how Secular Homeschooling Magazine’s “Bitter Homeschooler’s Wishlist” addresses this issue (and so many other common stereotypes, misconceptions, ignorances):
“11 Please stop questioning my competency and demanding to see my credentials. I didn’t have to complete a course in catering to successfully cook dinner for my family; I don’t need a degree in teaching to educate my children. If spending at least twelve years in the kind of chew-it-up-and-spit-it-out educational facility we call public school left me with so little information in my memory banks that I can’t teach the basics of an elementary education to my nearest and dearest, maybe there’s a reason I’m so reluctant to send my child to school.”
http://www.secular-homeschooling.com/001/bitter_homeschooler.html
This list includes some great points about the great “socialization” debate. I’m with most homeschoolers: Being stuck in a classroom with 30 kids of the same age and usually the same socioeconomic background, getting checkmarks of badness by their name as a form of public humiliation to deter “socializing” is -not- our healthiest or best option for “socialization.”
Or, as the Bitter Homeschooler list tells it:
“2 Learn what the words “socialize” and “socialization” mean, and use the one you really mean instead of mixing them up the way you do now. Socializing means hanging out with other people for fun. Socialization means having acquired the skills necessary to do so successfully and pleasantly. If you’re talking to me and my kids, that means that we do in fact go outside now and then to visit the other human beings on the planet, and you can safely assume that we’ve got a decent grasp of both concepts.”
I’m sure you were part of the 27% who passed, correct?
I came to this board to support homeschooling parents as I am a practicing educator interested in the area, however the complete slander towards ANYONE who teaches in public education is outlandish on this board.
Oh yes, I’m sure I would be much more socialized if I participated in Public Education where the teachers use inhumane discipline methods, and the children are so “socialized”.
No, I think that would be “nerdy”. Must be a result of your public schooling.
DM did not say they were gang signs, you did. DM said they were negatively connotated hand signs, which they are. In other words it appears they are making a statement with their hands which is clearly a negative statement.
“hand sings” . . . really? And you’re the highly educated English teacher?
Jesse,
If you were to homeschool your kids, how would you do it? Would you keep them isolated? Would you allow chaos in your home? Would you make purposefully them afraid of others? Would you keep them away from being trained for the future in technology, arts, sports, etc? Would you really care if they were geeky?
What would your homeschool look like?
I am assuming the best of you. I am assuming, that because you are an educator and obviously very passionate about children and education. Therefore, my thoughts would be that your homeschool classroom and lifestyle would be one that other homeschool families would admire. I am not being sarcastic here, seriously. I think you would set out to the best of your ability to provide the best opportunities for your own children, based on your knowledge and your personal goals for your family. Some things would be vitally important to you, and others would not; and the versa would be true for your homeschooling friends.
Your opinions in this blog assume the worst of homeschooling families, which reveals much about you, I’m afraid. That would be something you maybe ought to consider.
We homeschool for all the PRO reasons~ not because the schools are bad, the system is corrupt, the kids are worldy, the curriculum is liberal, etc….Actually, on the face of it, the philosophy and practice of homeschooling is a very Liberal approach in itself. It goes against the Conservative “status quo”.
My kids were in traditional school. A good one, where the teachers cared and tried and the Principal supported the teachers. I dropped them off at 8am, picked them up at 3:15. They had not been together all day, but yet within 60 seconds inside the car they were already quarreling. 1 1/2 hours later, after brain-fried and homework, we headed out to soccer or dance, etc, returned home for more homework, exhaling thru dinner time, baths and maybe signing the endless teacher papers, tweaking homework, finding out about last minute details for the next day. All the while (though academically the kids were doing well) my family lifestyle was competing with the sub-culture of “school”. We simply did not want to live this way anymore.
If a single-mom sees a way out of a drug/gang infested ghetto or trailer park, works hard to make a better life (in her opinion) for her children, she is praised. I wanted a way out of my “curb and gutter” suburb-good-school district, high expectations but low family priority lifestyle. You seem to disrespect that. You have no value that we are working diligently to produce 4 well-balanced, educated, respectful adults for our society. Frankly, bringing them home~ simply to take the time required to learn to serve and love one another~was the best thing, and the only thing I knew to do. You call me “selfish” for this, but that adjective is as pointless as labeling a non-homeschooling parent as”lazy”. I’m certainly busier than ever before, but I was not lazy then either. And Dad is over-seeing more than ever, when before he was relying heavily on the schools, teachers, systems to do the job. This gave him more time for golf, chill time with his buddies, veg time with the remote. I would call that selfish.
My children could have been kept in the school where they were with their fine teachers and glorious transcripts. But I’m not certain that they would have a future that meant that they could look back on their childhood and remember days of Peace, Serenity, Laughter, Quiet, Fun, Grace, Ownership, Parent-governed, Sibling focused, Self-responsibility. These are all the PROS I mean, and this was the vision I desperately wanted for my family.
I understand that there are pros in the traditional school model. I’ve been there, and I’ve experienced them. So, I think then, it really comes down to what the heart vision is for that child and for your family as a whole. If your point is that education is the rainbow label for a myriad of “subjects”, then I agree with you. But you are forgetting that these years are more than just subject learning, but are formative for future lifestyle choices.
The world needs more kids like mine. With their father, I’m hoping to change my family tree by producing children and grandchildren who know how to put aside a personal agenda for a higher call, bottom line. I’m not saying a school system cannot do that. I am saying that homeschooling is the only way I know how, and now that I’ve been there for 7 years, I’m seeing the fruit. And it’s all good.
That was beautifully said!
I agree with you about homeschooling for the PRO reasons. Our family is contemplating homeschool. While there are certainly concerns we have about public school, both my husband and I have mostly good memories of it. My oldest daughter just entered kindergarten and is thriving. BUT… She’s there from 9am – 4pm! What they do with that much time (besides justify the teachers salaries) beats me. When I think about the way we could spend that time learning together it’s appealing. Not only would it give us the freedom to move at her pace (she hasn’t learned a single thing yet that she didn’t cover in preschool last year) but it would give us the flexibility to teach on a year round schedule and take more “field trips.” Plus no more limiting family vacations to the same few weeks as the rest of the world. The thought of learning all over again with my children and the bond that would build in our family is thrilling. From my view point children in this country aren’t suffering from lack of socialization but rather from too much. Too the extent we can turn out better
educated children and closer families we should. THAT is a benefit to society!
HAH! My three homeschooled children are far more social than their cousins & friends who attend various public & private schools. My children are willing to play/interact with boys and girls, of all ages, infants to adults. Their cousins/friends in school on the other hand discriminate based on age, gender & appearance. When reading this I see that some teacher’s foster those choices. Based on your criteria, my children are very social and fit into many, dare I say any, social situation with grace & ease. Not so for the school students I’ve witnessed in many & various social settings.
This is not to agree or disagree with homeschooling, but to simply explain why my wife and I did not do it.
Both of us have the skills necessary to educate our 3 daughters to college level, and we would have had we stayed in Arizona. Where we were living was ideal. We were in contact with a homeschooling group of about a dozen families. Our kids would have been able to learn social skills in addition to school work.
I got laid off from my job and we moved to my hometown of approximately 5000 people. After many lengthy discussions we decided that public school was to be it.
As I was reading the comments to this thread I’ve seen only arguments either for proper education or for proper social skills. How can you have one without the other and still call your kids “well-rounded?” It sounds to me like you all are wanting either a well-educated monk or an imbecilic socialite.
I’ve known many home-schooled people as well as publicly-educated people, and see no difference in either group. When they get into the real world they will all have the same issues as any adult does and it’s up to us as parents and educators to help our children cope the best way we can.
I would like to point out that the original poster did not say that the kids were making gang signs, only “negative”. You are the only one associating the students with gangs based on race.
And, while you may consider it “illogical” that homeschooled kids would be “socially adept”, that is not a well-reasoned argument that it is not, in fact, the case. Kids in public school socialize with lots of other people–all of them within about 9 months of their own age–for 5 minutes at a time before and between classes. Many (admittedly, not all) homeschoolers socialize with many people of varying ages for hours a day. Which of these is measurably “better”? I certainly don’t know, but I’m not willing to admit that the former is based entirely on your own world view. Evidence, please?
I also note that you only reply to ranting comments and completely ignore any that are well thought out. It’s easy to feel superior to people who make ridiculous points, isn’t it?
I keep hearing about socialization. So, in your view spending 12 years in public schools with people your same age and one or two adults is diverse socialization?
Most home schoolers I know are able to have friends and carry on conversations with people of all ages comfortably. Not only are they able to socialize with people of all ages, but the friendly attitudes of these kids are able to accept others no matter of race, background, religion or handicap difference without any bias whatsoever.
I’m happy to say the only “hand signs” my homeschooled kids know is Sign Language.
Oh Geez. Now I’m going to bite and respond. You are making this way too easy.
Homeschooling: Great for any family who is willing to give up many material goods, for the gift of time to embrace life to the fullest.
Top 10 reasons to homeschool:
10: “You were totally homeschooled” (with a laugh and often said with shocked amusement) has led to deep relationships for many young adults with differing educational backgrounds.
9:Your kids can eat fruitloops and meatloaf in the living room (maybe together) as they braid the dog’s hair, play with legos and take turns reading The Chronicles of Narnia.
8.Homeschooling is an amazing way to nurture servant-leaders in our homes and communities. I have seen this done in more families than not.
7. Are you really putting God in a box to argue that kids should go to school?
6.As a general rule, if a family makes the lifestyle leap into homeschooling, the parents are bold risk-takers who think outside of that box.
5. As a homeschooling parent, I love our families lifestyle. Sorry to hear that our existence somehow offends you.
4. We pulled our kids out of school because of racism and religious intolerance. (I know..and yet we live in the 21st century) We are now in a community that is more accepting of all people. Nice change;)
3.We have the gift of numerous, daily interactions that time would not allow if our children were in school 8-10 hours a day. We are blessed not to be segregated by abilities, age or school attending. You see, we don’t care..we just build relationships.
Feel free to come visit our house sometime. you will realize how insane this statement is. In the words of my friend Carol, our children may be sometimes unruly, but never unsocialized.
2. Oh..that’s right, risk-taking equals arrogance? By the way, check the homeschooling stats with the 2000 census..you might be surprised at the broad spectrum involved.
1. Homeschoolers don’t have a hang-up with geeky. You are right, they are not preocuppied with perception.
How nice that there aren’t any geeky kids in your school! Although I do think it’s a shame that the kids in your school, immersed as there are in a monoculture of coolness, don’t get the opportunity to develop their socialization skills among geeky kids. Who do they beat up? How will they ever learn to give a wedgie, if there are no geeky kids in public school upon which to hone these important life skills?
Touche. That’s my favorite comment so far.
Alistair
Dear Ms. Scaccia,
In response to your #6, perhaps you ought to take the time to edit your own work. I quote from your final paragraph, “If any of you are interesting in writing for us, send me an email: jessescaccia@gmail.com.”
Perhaps this was just a type of “Freudian-slip” on your part; however, after such a boastful statement on your qualifications, a grammatical error makes you look even more foolish. By the way, I am not an English major.
On another note, I wonder how the “geeky” public school kids feel sitting in your class knowing you frown on their “geekiness”? I was a public school kid. We had geeks then, and I know you have geeks now.
Tread lightly, Ms. Scaccia. Your intolerance breeds intolerance. You really should get out of the classroom from time to time. The world is changing all around you.
Mrs. Kernc
What is your problem with geeks exactly? I am a former Amish, and was partly homeschooled (a few years) and now I am into computers. I see nothing wrong with a school kid getting smarts.
If you mean socialization to be bullying, impertinence, swearing, acting crudely toward the opposite sex, disrespecting those around you, verbally abusing those who do not have the same opinion as you do or generally acting in a hideous manner–then NO my children have not been socialized in the manner you suggest. Hours and months of being polite and helping others outweigh your belief that we need more public school bullies. Real socialization is being involved with multiple age groups, races, creeds, religions in the real world. To assimilate in the manner you are referring would mean your school has ages 0-100 and they all work together. You have every race, every creed, every gender, every belief right there in your classroom. Is this true? You have elderly individuals and 2 year olds? Wow. (heavy sarcasm there.) In truth you can not “socialize” in a public school. If you are talking about creating social structure in regard to rank and status you are doing a lovely job keeping that going. The inequality of the system is inherent and quite apparent.
TeacherRevised: My now homeschooled children have between them 14 years of PS experience, and I myself have 13. Of all those years of experience we’ve had with PS, the very LAST thing I would EVER say we got out of it was proper socialization! Such a JOKE!
It’s teachers like you that reinforce my choice to homeschool.
You ask how D.M. knows that thier child is well socialized? Well, I do not know D.M. personally, but, I know how I can tell that MY child is well socialized. That’s easy. I KNOW HER! I see how she interacts with her friends, which are made up of public schooled, private schooled, and other homeschooled kids, of many different ages. I see how she reacts to certain people I know she is not fond of. I watch her in situations where she is the youngest child, oldest child, the “new kid”, ect… In all these situations she is comfortable. She is able to walk up to someone of any age and start a conversation. She helps co-teach a Sunday school class for residents in a nursing home, as well as being a “mom’s helper” to a neighbor mom with toddler triplets. She has many friends around her age that she does the “regualar things” with. Parties, texting, sleep overs…You really believe one 15 minutes recess and passing notes in the hall “socailizes” a child? In public school most kids are only around children within a year or two of thier age. That’s being social? Gimme a break.. As an adult I am not limited to people within a year or two of my age. Yes, some homeschooled kids are “geeky” as are some public schooled kids.. I am a firm believer that children should be encouraged to be what they are. Whatever that is. Even if it’s a “geek” however, for my homeschooled 10 year old daughter, that is being a natural born leader and an athlete. I don’t know too many that would consider that “geeky” Now, her love for reading, and always having a book in her hand (when not a ball) could earn her the title “geek” I suppose.. But so be it if it does…
I am a 14 year old homeschooler. I know more about… everything than most of my public school friends. So in the words of Weezer, “Imma do the things that I want to do I ain’t got a thing to prove to you I’ll eat my candy with the pork and beans exuse my manners if I make a scene I ain’t gonna wear the clothes that you like I’m fine and dandy with the me inside one look at the mirror and I’ll take my pick I dont give a hoot about what you think.”
Teacherrevised,
I appreciate your post, though I find it a bit unnecessarily sarcastic. I agree that homeschooling might be okay educationally, but socially detrimental. “You were totally home-schooled” is a common insult…I’ve even muttered it to a friend when seeing a family of blue-jean-skirt-clad women walking along with their heads down. 99% of the time I am right. I also agree with your assessment that the home and school should be separated- give kids a place of solace. My husband talks about coming home from public school and being excited to be home because it was a place of rest. I don’t know what that must have felt like because I was home-schooled for the last 8 years of my education…which was probably 7 years too long. I don’t at all think that homeschooling should be illegal- my parents initially used it as a transitional tool while looking for a better school for me…they just never got around to finding the better school. I have had no academic struggles as a former home-schooled student, and graduated from college with a BS in nursing at age 21…but I do miss now some of the opportunities I didn’t have. I wish I had HS friends to have had experiences with, been able to be mentored by a teacher who was not hand picked by my mother, and been able to play organized sports that weren’t lame (if you think girls basketball is lame, try homeschooled girls basketball). I, by no means, am socially awkward or unaware ANYMORE, but that took some painful “education” in my early twenties from my profession, many non-homeschooled ex-boyfriends, my husband and friends I met along the way. I agree with your assessment that one can please God in the public school as a witness. I appreciate you saying that even as an agnostic because I think you hit a rationale for homeschooling between the eyes. Kids don’t have to be sheltered to remain Christian. In fact, I find that being liberated from the “shelter” of homeschooling and exploring the culture has made me more convinced of my faith because I see it outside the context of Christian homeschooled culture. My husband says though that had he been brought up like me, he would have rejected Christianity…and I think many homeschooled kids do. The only part I disagree with you on is #8. I think most parents are selfish when it comes to which kids their children hang around. If we choose to live in an area with a “good” public school district or send our kids to private schools we are doing the same thing- keeping them around kids that will keep their academic standards high. I believe that we should consider poor children, support legislation that supports their education and promotes greater opportunity, but I don’t think this requires allowing our own children to be dumbed down so that all can be equal. If keeping high-achieving students and less-achieving students together is done without sacrificing the integrity and standards of the educational system, then I am all for it.
I am a public school Science teacher. I love my job. i love having a positive influence for children of all backgrounds. However, I have not had a very positive experience with public school when it comes to my own children. My daughter has been bullied, ignored by teachers. I feel she has been allowed to slip throught the cracks. I am so frustrated with the education system. I give 110% to my students. i just can’t understand why my children can’t receive the same. My daughter’s IEP was consistently ignored even though the accomidations were very minor. My son on the other hand, is gifted. He has been labeled as a daydreamer because he is unhappy sitting at a table completing worksheets all day. I feel each year that I am playing the lottery when assigned a teacher. A lot of teachers care but ,unfortunately, many do not. I will be homeschooling both of my kids next school year. I can teach my children in one week what they would learn in almost a month in public school. (I homeschooled for a few months due to bullying). I do not worry at all about socialization. The social interactions at school are mostly negative. I do value public education. Homeschooling is simply more efficient and more fun!
First, let me say that I am not a homeschooler. With that out of the way, I am the product of both church and public school and have always been, as you say, “geeky.” I was ostracized by my peers for being different (more bookish, not enjoying the same pop-culture nonsense, etc.) in both settings and my social awkwardness has been driven to a very large degree by *their* behavior. I see nothing wrong with my differences from others and also nothing wrong with being geeky. Group dynamics in schools can do very ugly things to kids, see the bullying epidemic. You seem to have an overly positive view of children’s social interactions.
I am a college graduate and a retired computer programmer. I took almost all the classes in pursuit of a masters in secondary education before I decided to give it up. I also did substitute teaching for three years after I retired from programming. My daughter home schools her children.
You speak of socialization. From what I have seen in the public schools nowadays, I am glad my grandchildren are not being socialized in the drug culture, sexting, and the filthy language I heard out of the mouths of pre-adolescent students. I am glad that they all read on a level higher than the grade they would be in public schools.
When you say, in rebuttal to one parent, “Yes, your choice is selfish. It benefits your children at the expense of the other students in the district. When something is good for you but bad for someone else, that makes it selfish, no?” I must conclude that you are opposed to advanced classes for gifted students, no? If not, why not?
In my experience there is no direct correlation between the knowledge one has, i.e. number of college degrees, and the ability to impart that knowledge to students. You may be a gifted teacher, but I have seen more than enough well-educated teachers who were totally lost in a classroom. One thing that every home school parent has, that I have witnessed, is total dedication the the education of their children. That is something no one can claim for every teacher in our public schools.
You accuse home school parents of being arrogant. Considering that is coming from an elitist teacher, I find it rather amusing. It reminds me of what Benjamin Franklin said about one of his thirteen virtues… humility. He said that pride (arrogance) was impossible to totally eliminate from his life. He said that should he ever manage to do so… he would be proud of the accomplishment. You do well to point out the arrogance of home schoolers. Arrogance is something you are totally familiar with.
Jesse, it seems that the only person teaching intolerance is you, a public school teacher, who is passing on your view points to your students. If you replaced “homeschooler” with “special needs”, you would be considered cruel. Parents choose to homeschool for many different reasons, and a large percent do so due to Autism or other mental illnesses. In fact, as parents, we should have the freedom to choose which route is best for our children. I’m very relieved that in our school system, your rhetoric wouldn’t be tolerated in our district. Instead of a “thank you” from society for taking the burden off of the tax system, we deal with hate opinions such as your blog. As a parent of two children, one being homeschooled and the other in a large public school system, our homeschooler has a much greater empathy for people, can socialize with every age range comfortably, and doesn’t judge people on what they wear and who they hang out with. I call my daughters PS social education as “negative socialization”.
Jessica, Jessica, Jessica. Your blog is a prime example of why soooo many parents homeschool. Let me take this comment by comment.
10. How many colleges have you worked at? None? Didn’t think so. I have and as a registrar and having done screening for several programs plus done outreach at public and private schools getting kids into college, I have yet to hear comments such as your’s. I’ve heard, as have the homeschooled kids I’ve helped, “wow, wish I could have been homeschooled.” Now, I have heard geeks/nerds who came out of public schools and private schools mocked and bullied for being geeks/nerds. Seems to be a “normal” part of the “socialization” process of public/private schools. Surely you aren’t too old to remember that and surely you see it on a daily basis if you teach at a school.
9. Well, call me unrealistic but I think people who voice opinions about where classrooms are should actually have some experience about the subject they are talking about. Yes, *some* families use the kitchen table. And, yes, *some* families may use the family/livingroom to study in. HOWEVER, so do public/private schooled kids to do their homework. Are you saying that studying shouldn’t be done in these rooms? Or only by homeschoolers?
8. Now, you say you are college educated. I don’t know this to be a fact but, IF you are then you have to have been in school for at least 17 years. Over all those years you should have learned two things: do your OWN homework, and polls, surveys and statistics say exactly what the person doing the poll, survey or crunching numbers for statistics want them to say. A poll, survey or statistic is only as good as what went into them. Surely you know that.
7. “(Personally I’m agnostic, but I’m just saying…)” Nah, what you were doing there was being obnoxious, sarcastic and making a fool of yourself.
6. All that going to college proves is that you went to college. It certainly doesn’t prove you can teach whether you majored in a subject or not. If this were true then schools wouldn’t be failing the children of America! It is pure unadulterated arrogance for people to think simply because they went to school longer than someone else that they are better at doing something than someone else.
5. Ah, see #7 above.
4. Hmmmm, interesting concept except it’s pure conjecture. However, we do know that public schools breed hate. We do know that private schools are havens of intolerance and the elitist “we’re better than *them*” thinking. Are you perhaps projecting what you’ve seen in private schools?
3. Again, besides a brain fart, what are you basing this on? We get that you are ignorant of and biased against homeschooling. However, as a supposed educator shouldn’t you practice what public/private schools preach — do you homework, do your homework, do your homework. For 13 years public/private schooled kids have some adult standing over their shoulders or standing at the front of a classroom pounding them with “do your homework.” Ah, could I suggest you practice what you preach!
2. Do you really teach? You quote *one* person’s *opinion.* And opinion, might I add, loaded with qualifiers of “probably,” “might,” etc. Sorry, so far I see a failing grade on this particular blog.
AND, as far a playing Russian roulette with a child’s future, ah, take a look at the report cards on schools. Take a look at the Department of Justice stats on abuse in public/private schools BY teachers. Take a look at the stats on the potential to be sexually abused in public/private schools. Take a look at the potential for a child to fail who comes out of a public/private school.
1. “And finally, well,” I think you lie. Sorry, I really don’t think you have met many, if any, homeschoolers.
Now, as to your answers to others and your blog in general, as an English teacher, or so you say, it is frightening that you didn’t head for your dictionary before you wrote this blog (geek: a carnival performer who does disgusting acts; eccentric: a person with an unusual or odd personality (Princeton); or Geek is a common term for someone who is obsessed by their computer, and has achieved a high level of expertise in their chosen area (Science Technology glossary); short for computer geek, an individual with a passion for computers; a term similar to nerd). I would think a mother could easily tell if her child was a geek.
BTW, you “get” an education. You “are” homeschooled.
Now, if you are doing a survey, I have homeschooled my children, my nieces and nephews and a couple of dozen “throw away” children that came in all ages, sizes, colors, ethnic groups and races. I am a minority. I am not rich. I’m not a college graduate and I’ve done a better job with the “throw away” kids my children brought home than the public schools they had all dropped out of did. All the kidlets learned Spanish, Italian, French, German (won an award in German poetry) and/or Russian (none of which I speak), sign language, biology, economics, history, chemistry, government, physical science, English (they won Young Writers Awards in national competitions), dance, art, sewing (won many awards and Best in Show), ag (won many Grand Champions), riding (won hundreds upon hundreds of local, state and national awards and championships), auto mechanics, auto body work. Most of them read all of Shakespeare. At least half read War and Peace. They are all proficient using the computer. Oh, and sports — basketball, baseball, football, softball, gymnastics, soccer, tennis and the list goes on and on and on.
Each and every single one of these children were, dare I say, . . . Perhaps you should sit down before you read any further. ALL of the kidlets were UNschooled. Yup, they never sat down around the table from 8 to 3. They were never required to study anything. They all wanted to learn and learn they did. Each and every single one that wanted to go to college went to college. Each and every single one of them that wanted to learn a marketable skill did so. They have gone to community colleges, four-year colleges and universities. Why, even universities in other countries. They have apprenticed. They now manage companies or own their own companies. They are in the Marines and in the Navy. They are accountants and special ed teachers and work with the developmentally disabled.
My house was filled, on a daily basis, with public, private and charter schooled children. Their graduation parties were held at my house because their schools wouldn’t allow them to have a party. My *homeschooled* children went to public school proms. Many went to proms at multiple schools which they couldn’t have done if they were public schooled. They all did volunteer work. They are all politically savy, active and vote. And, before you jump, not necessarily the way I would want them to.
I don’t know where you got your notion that homeschoolers don’t socialize unless what you mean is that they aren’t locked up in an artificial environment where their only social interaction is with children of the same age. Or you define socialization as learning to bully or be bullied. Or you define socialization as being beat into submission where they have to have permission to use the bathroom.
In fact, while I’m thinking about, my life would have been a bit more peaceful if there had been less socialization! Not that I’m really complaining but facts are facts.
Mom2Many:
Do you have a blog? I would love to read it and learn from it. We are a family of adopted kids (2 started out as our foster kids). I would love to hear more of your experiences and how you guided the learning of all these children.
Thanks!!
Mom2Many:
GREAT response! THANK YOU for the tremendous, difficult work you have done with these kids over the years, and thank you for being willing to share that with us. You are an amazing example to those of us who are still “in the trenches” of home educating our own kids.
I really appreciate your comments.
Mom2Many-
Yes, you should have your own blog if you do not already! I loved your post. I would have loved to be there, learning in your house, instead of stuck in the school I attended. I do agree that the thing schools best teach is how to be mean.
BTW your words remind me of a speech that I heard Winona Laduke give in 2000: wise words from a wise woman.
Mom2Many
Wow! I ‘d read your blog! We home educated for 12 years, then charter schooled, had 2 kids attend public school & then attend Catholic school. My 13 year old presented me with a matrix why she should/should not come back for home education. We made the decision to bring her home, along with 2 other kids, and use the charter school again. Basically, she is sick of the wasted time at school and being held back by other students who aren’t interested in learning.
You Go!
Mom to 8 & hoping to foster some eventually
I must say, you have to be high up on the list for well educated ignorant people. You complain about many things to which you have no understanding and prbably have never researched yourself. You take bible verses completely out of context and try to twist it to suit your needs, you say we create prejudice, but what are you doing. My best friend is a highschool teacher! I can’t help but wonder if you have evn read the bible yourself, more than just a verse or two but actually read it.
First of all the scripture that you mention is found in Matthew 28:18-20, 18 And Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. 19 Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded YOU. And, look! I am with YOU all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”
Jesus was speaking of making followers of God. True a person does usually require an education to be able to read and write and teach others, but nowhere does it say, “send your children to school to be properly educated”. If it does than I am truly sorry and I better get some new glasses! Jesus’ life’s work was to make disciples of God & he always took time to show love and respect for all children and all people. No matter what race or religion or financial means they had. He showed love and caring for others.
A person needs to do thier own research on a subject before showing up for debate class. I’m not just talking about looking at someone else’s notes and opinions, I’m talking about going and really finding out the truth. You have all these potentially true things about homeschoolers, but in reality you are merely talking about individuals. I myself as a homeschooler find the occasional fanatic that is a little extreme but overall we are pretty down to earth people that want the best for our children. Nothing that you mention in your list of reasons cannot be said of children that are in public school. It is my personal opinion that the school system is filled with teachers that are overworked, understaffed & underpaid so if one less child has to be stuffed in a classroom what’s the problem? The only thing I see is that you are trying to increase the intolerance by just assuming and making judgement. Many people homeschool for many different reasons and unless you know thier circumstances you have no right to judge and since you want to bring God into the subject, according to the scriptures you have no right to judge anyway. That privilege belongs to him and him alone. We need to all work together as human beings and fight indifference not continue it with ignorance. True I have seen homeschool parents that are arrogant but I have seen some rather arrogant parents when my daughter was in school and you yourself are acting arrogant! I personally could care less about my child being called “the homeschooled geek” when she is in college, what concerns me more is her being picked on when she is a young vunerable girl that is more hurt by words. An adult can hadle themself a lot better than a child. I really don’t know what you consider to be proper behavior of a child in a social group but I have seen some of the most well behaved and self confident people with homeschooled children. Cramming them into a room and making them sit with each other while doing schoolwork and having them play for one or two lack of supervised hours outside a day does not guarantee that they will be socially fit either. I have seen some of the worst intolerance taught at school. In no way is public schooling superior to homeschooling because public schooling faces all the same issues so you are in no way different than the rest of us. If you truly feel you are right and really have passion about it than go out and personally prove it. you might actually learn something about understanding other people. I have the deepest resect for teachers as a whole but I feel the best thing for my child is homeschool. Some parents out there might not have any business homeschooling thier children but I have also seen teachers that have no business teaching children. My daughters 3rd grade teacher would yell at the students, I in no way hated her, I felt bad for her. But honestly, what bussiness does she have yelling at our kids? Not to say all teachers do that, I absolutely adored some of her other teachers and thought the world of them. I also cannot speak for other homeschoolers but my daughter has an actual classroom that is her very own and I know of other parents that have done the same. What is wrong with what the room looks like though if the child is being taught in a loving enviorment?
Unfortunately in this world we take a gamle no matter what choice we make in life, we just have to hope we take the time and make the right choices!
Thank you for your piece. I showed it to my kids. This reminds me of the multitude of reasons why I homeschool.
Haha! Love. it. Keep on keeping on Sista!
Please visit.
I need your help.
http://powerintruth.worpress.com/
So you would rather have my two children with their multiple food allergies in your class? Would you like to discuss how to totally remove food from the classroom – presentations, celebration parties, hands on curriculum. And while I understand that you are an English instructor and this may not come up for you much – think about how my kindergartner feels on a daily basis when he has to pass on every treat sent to school or sit at a table alone to keep him safe from his food allergens which include wheat, eggs, peanuts and tree nuts. Because when I mentioned it to the supervisors of the school, I was told my needs to keep him safe were too strict for them. Then there is the fight over where the Epi pen is kept, because a reaction is inevitable. So the administrators say in a whisper, a shush shush voice they don’t to hear their lawyer say (because my children are protected by the Americans with Disabilities Act) that maybe we should homeschool. Because he’s a freak in school and he will be a freak out of school and cruel people like you point him out as one instead of inviting him to join your group. Because you have already labeled him – food allergic homeschooler and he’s not worthy.
This is priceless:
“One last note, to those homeschooling parents out there: it’s clear from the number and passion of your responses that TeacherRevised is missing an important voice in the teaching community. If any of you are interesting in writing for us, send me an email: jessescaccia@gmail.com. I would love to have you as part of our conversation.”
Apparently, the English teacher with a double major in English and education and two graduate degrees doesn’t know how to properly proof his or her own work. Right, I want my kids in that classroom.
I would just like to say to all of those comments that read “Teachers like you remind myself why I homeschool”….Well not all teachers are like that! I have never in my life seen a teacher as crude and ignorant as this one and I have been through 7 different public schools for moving. You can’t compare this teacher to other public school teachers. dccarlson says it beautifully! (I am not the same Andrea that says she isn’t a teacher or something like that)
Thank you so much for your post.
As an out of the box, open minded, agnostic, person who enjoys learning and sharing this joy with my children, I will keep your blog post as a reminder of just how narrow minded, simplified, uninspired, intolerant and shallow, teachers & schools are.
For those who want to hear an insightful teacher’s case FOR homeschooling, please read John Taylor Gatto (once New York State Teacher of the Year)
http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html
Jesse,
I have taught as a Public School teacher and I must say that this post is very insulting and makes me feel ashamed that another teacher could write this and readily declare she teaches in the Public School system.
Where I live in North America, every parent has the right to decide what is in the best interests of their children and that right includes choices around how to educate one’s children. I have the utmost respect for parents who choose to take the challenge of educating their child at home while sacrificing their own personal time and careers as the case may be.
In your post you opened with the statement “Homeschooling: great for self-aggrandizing, society-phobic mother”. I find it intriguing that you refer to women alone and interestingly we are often condemned in North American society for making the choice to stay home and be with our children. We are not seen as contributing members of society unless we hold paid positions in the work force like yourself.
Having a child has changed me personally and has made me re-prioritize my life. I am choosing to stay at home with my daughter while working on my Masters in Education at a more leisurely pace so that I enjoy watching her grow and develop. Does being a “stay-at-home mom” when my daughter is 16 months now make me a “self-aggrandizing society-phobic mother” too? Are you also one of the many people who would label me as “lazy” for being home instead of returning to teaching? I realize you are not making mention of mothers like myself but can’t help wonder what words you’d have for us after reading your disparaging comments.
You refer to home-schooled children as “geeky”. Did you ever consider that some children are at home because they wouldn’t have otherwise lasted another day in the public school system you so highly appraise? I knew of a family friend whose son had severe bouts of seizures; he was constantly taunted by other peers and the school staff/administration did not do much to stop it. By the time he was 15 years old, he was becoming suicidal. His mother, who is not affluent, stayed home from her minimum wage job to home-school him so he could get back on track academically and emotionally. I hope mothers like her did not come upon your rant which I might add is being labeled as a need for attention within one of the blogs I read by another teacher who also respects the right for parents to choose how to “school” their child.
Although I realize I am unlikely going to change your view of homeschooling in my post, I felt the need to share my views as another teacher of the public school system taking a break to be with her child. I also want to use this space to make clear to the many parents you have offended that not all public school teachers share your dim view of homeschooling.
I am always willing to hear another person’s point of view on homeschooling. It is very clear to me that you are not as well experienced with meeting and getting to know these kids. Grant it, there are some parents that should NOT home school as it certainly is not for everyone. However, on the social matter and the college experience you have commented on, I must disagree. I base my disagreement purely on experience. As a university professor I must say, my best students (all round) are those that were homeschooled. The do much better, they care about what they are doing, they are committed, they are mature, and they are ready to contribute to the world we live in today.
I don’t know if you are looked around lately, but our society is pathetic. As a world traveler (study abroad experiences) I see that other cultures have a lot less crud to deal with than we do in the good ole USA. I am not knocking our country, but we have fouled up somewhere in our societal makeup. I want my students and my children to be leaders and those that will make this world a better place to live.
Please note that I do not base my point of view on emotions (such as being “pissed off”) – but strictly on qualitative observation.
cms
I have just re-read my writing, please forgive the typos and incorrect wording – or spelling (fowled)
So what’s this thing about homeschooling allegedly being selfish because “rich” kids are then “isolated”. First, the majority of homeschoolers are middle-class and don’t want to be in a public school but I haven’t seen anyone advocate to close down private and parochial schools for this reason. I wanted to ask the author of this article if they would be willing to give up owning a car and start riding the bus so that more people are riding public buses. I doubt they would do that !
It is sad, but true that many teachers teaching eighth grade English do not have an eighth grade understanding of Science. Fortunately many parents, smarter than you, understand both. If you provided a superior teaching environment then you would get superior results and you do not. The benefits of not exposing their children to idiots like you is far too attractive for many parents to pass up.
DM
To me, it look as if those ‘hand signs’ are simply a child saying “hook em’ horns” because he is a diehard University of Texas fan. He probably plans on going there (with his public school education) and becoming a doctor, probably one who will save your life.
By the way, I agree with most of this and must say I found many of the points to be very interesting.
Wow, D.M., that’s pretty closed minded of yourself. Of course, since I’m in that horrible PUBLIC school I would never dream of helping a charity! Actually, every Wednesday my *PUBLIC* school lets us out early for teacher meetings and me and several friends attend Campus Life (a Christian meeting) and then proceed to volunteer until 6PM at the local food pantry. And the thing is, WE’RE NOT AN ANOMALY! Most large student organizations in the school run at least one school-wide food drive. All the profits generated by our business department go to charity. (That was a STUDENT idea.)
And Sharon, you’re just plain ignorant. Children are allowed to wear crosses. I do. I see all sorts of biblically-themed shirts. I’m not saying that everyone is a devout Christian, far from it. But we do have several religious student organizations that meet in the school’s rooms. And the co-ops consist of all races and backgrounds that happen to be white, affluent, and Christian.
And to the commenter who said that kids are instructed to all blend in and be the same, HAVE YOU SEEN SOME OF THE THINGS PEOPLE WEAR IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS? They are wildly different. We have hijabs, crucifixes, Sikh combs and all manner of everything in between. I, personally, am not incredibly popular, but not disliked or unpopular. I am eccentric and say and do all sorts of non-mainstream things and nobody tells me to keep my head down and mouth shut. I’m a Protestant, I listen to 60s and 70s classic rock and rant about the deterioration of culture. And no one excludes me!
And no, the classroom doesn’t always resemble the real world. But the kitchen table being taught by your mother or father is even further removed from it.
Frankly, sitting around the kitchen table is where I have learned the most. I went to public school and taught 9 years in the public school. But my most important learning came from my mother and father, and usually, at the kitchen table. I learned about states and capitals, countries and their capitals while eating dinner… and it wasn’t from a place mat. It was my parents investing in me and brother.
Even as an adult, it is still the place where I glean wisdom that could never have been taught in a classroom.
That is my real world, and I hope it’s yours too. To have a relationship with parents is precious, whether one is homeschooled or not.
Allowed to wear crosses? The schools in the area where I live is extremely ANTI-Christian. Kids are given out-of-school suspensions and expulsions for refusing to remove crosses and Christian-themed clothing (or turn items inside-out.) The ACLU and the local government officials agree with this and they are all VERY pro-ISLAM, although most of them profess to be Christians. Kids can wear head coverings if they are Muslim, but they can’t otherwise, even if it’s for a medical condition. They allow the Muslim kids to leave class to pray facing Mecca, but Christians (and Jews) are removed from the lunchroom if they are heard thanking God for their lunch. And this is just in little ol’ Utica, NY. I attended several schools in other districts in the Madison-Oneida County area, but it’s the same all over here. I called the schools out on this on the local media’s websites, but I was subsequently banned from all of them (IP address is blocked.)
I WISH I was homeschooled. I was in a different school every year, sometimes twice a year, until high school, as an Air Force brat. I wouldn’t have had to deal with getting my head slammed into lockers, getting pushed down the stairs, literally being thrown off the bus, and the daily death threats- usually in front of the teachers who claimed ignorance. My parents went to the principal to pull me out and homeschool me, but were told that it was illegal to do so with a myriad of false reasons (Vernon Verona Sherrill High School.) I ended up dropping out, getting my GED (six months before my class graduated, mind you), getting a job and going to college.
I TOTALLY support homeschooling if for no other reason than to keep children from the amplified chaos and lack of actual learning that occurs in the public school system, at least in this region. I do, however, have to give high marks to the Department of Defense Dependents Schools; the first three years of my educational career were spent there (Zukeran Elementary and Bob Hope Primary, Okinawa.)
A preacher’s wife in Utica, NY
* are extremely anti-Christian, not IS
Alright, Ian, it’s great that you’re involved in charity. Good for you.
It’s also great that you have a Christian club at school. If, however, it is truly a public high school then I can guarantee you it is not really a sanctioned club. Do they allow it? Yes. Do they like it? No.
I attempted to start a Bible club my freshman year. I was told it had to be student initiated and student led. Faculty members could be present, but they could neither lead discussion nor (in some cases) even get involved in the discussions. We couldn’t even call it “Bible Club” – the middle school (as it was both a middle and high school club) insisted that we call it something nonreligious. We ended up with “Freedom Fellowship”. No one knew what it was and it eventually just died out.
As for Christian t-shirts, of course they’re allowed! So are clothes which promote sex, drugs, and gang violence (at least in my high school). But only man looks on the outward appearance – the Lord looks on the heart. Having a heart for God in a public high school is anything but easy. Every day I was surrounded by people who not only thought I was crazy for not smoking, swearing, or dating but who also assumed I was constantly judging them for doing so (I wasn’t, by the way – all have sinned and it’s Jesus’ job to convict them of their specific sins. My job is to lovingly point to way to salvation). I had to sit through classes teaching evolution, abortion, sexual freedom, and – worst of all – that my faith was nothing more but a nice story. Don’t tell me public schools are a faith friendly environment.
As for diversity, it’s certainly promoted – in theory. As long as your differences don’t define who you are, that’s fine. Joining public school in sixth grade, however, as the smart, nerdy-looking, loud, homeschooled Christian freak does not exactly place one in the popular crowd. Not dating in high school brought patronizing or incredulity. Telling people I want to be a missionary in Africa brought the same. My best friend, also a Christian, wears a head covering – try explaining that one to teenagers.
I’m not saying public school is inherently evil or that it can’t be a viable educational option. I am saying, though, that without a solid base in elementary school – homeschooled, allowed to grow up as I was without peer pressure – I would not be as comfortable with myself as I am today.
One last note – I have never regretted homeschooling. I also had some wonderful experiences in public high school. I can tell you, though, that every time I drive past the school I graduated from this June I am grateful that I am no longer going there.
I think this article is disgusting. My 13 year old is in 7th grade in a public middle school. I have to say I have thought about homeschooling more than once in the past month. The teachers are lazy, they never get back to you and it always seems like they feel they have better things to do. My son brought home 2 B’s on his report card and that is a first. He always says how totally bored he is and now “I hate school” has become part of his vocabulary. I won’t even get started on the kids and how they act and dress. My son is very bright yet it seems that only the kids that need extra help or the one’s who are in trouble ALL THE TIME get the attention. I am very torn over homeschooling only because I don’t know if I am smart enough to help him LOL. Jesse you are way to harsh in your article to each his own or haven’t you learned that one yet????
Don’t worry you aren’t intelligent enough; you almost definitely are. And caring about your child counts for a LOT. Since you care as much as you do, you will be able to find a way around difficulties. For instance, if you happen to have trouble with a certain subject, there are a lot of things you can do. You can teach yourself as much as you are able (what I am doing, mostly with free e-books). You can find others home-schooling and teach their children and your son a subject you are good at, while another parent teaches them the subject you have trouble with. You can use software for countless things: foreign-language practice, explaining algebraic techniques, simulated dissection for biology, and so on. He can enroll in online classes and tutorials. If the subject is something really advanced, like calculus, you can get him in early enrollment for it at least at state universities if he has a good foundation for it. As you go along teaching, you will learn new things at the same time and reinforce and review what you’ve learned already. And the older he gets, the more he will be able to teach himself. So don’t think something like, “Calculus! Chemistry! Physics! How could I ever teach them?” Think about what you can teach yourself and do all you are able, then make a way for him. Some hints though: The school has probably taught him very little in the realms of higher arithmetic and grammar, and no Latin or logic. These subjects are fundamental to higher learning. I recommend starting with them immediately, not just you, but everyone who hasn’t and has learned reading, grammar, and lower arithmetic. The best sources, which I am using personally, are free online: Ray’s Higher Arithmetic, Reed and Kellogg’s Higher Lessons, Nutting’s Latin Primer, and True’s Elements of Logic. Good luck!
dont try to give attitude first think
just so you know, lemonade stands are now illegal. So yeah you might want to check your facts.
Hi,
I am writing a news story on homeschooling and I want both sides of the argument presented. I was wondering if whoever wrote this article would be willing to answer a few question for me? If so email me at reddingtonaj@vcu.edu.
Thank you.
Amelia
I am 19 and I know that the sign they are making means hang loose, which means to relax and go with the flow, it is not a gang sign
wow…someone really doesn’t like homeschooling now do they? Someone apparantly didn’t research the subject very well either did they? And this person is concerned about my homeschooled children becoming narrow minded and intolerant? Wow…
So I am selfish because I wont put my children in a local failing school so that children in a lower income bracket can have my children to look up to?(8)
God hates homeschooling? Really? As a self proclaimed Agnostic who are you to judge what God loves or hates? I don’t think God intended my five year old to go into “all the world” without proper training from a Christian parent, rather than a agnostic teacher. (7)
Apparently I can teach English as well as you with my measly highschool diploma, as my oldest son scored in the high 90′s on his ASVABs for military enlistment. I don’t seem to have done so bad in other areas as well, as his overall score was rather high, making him highly desirable by all branches. We covered Biology included all labs, and our college profesor friends have commented on his education(in a positive light) and ability to carry on an educated discussion and were quite impressed with his knowledge of History. Me, Arrogant? No, but proud of what we have accomplished!(6)
Homeschooling pisses you off? Why? Do you take it as a personal threat or insult or lack of regard of your education? As a homeschooling parent of twelve years, I have nothing but the upmost respect for public and private school teachers who spend years and lots of money recieving their education obviously out of a true love of what they do, as they sure don’t get paid what they’re worth. I think most homeschooling parents feel the same. Our choice to homeschool isn’t about the teachers in the schools, it’s about an overall failing system. I often hear many college professors complain that students are entering college completly unprepared academically. I don’t feel this is a result of the teachers, but school boards and curriculum planners who are more concerned about teaching political correctness than academics.(5)
One of several reasons we homeschool is that we live in an area where there are whites, and native americans, period. I once found a lost cell phone and called the owner, and we agreed to meet at the local ball field to return the phone. I asked how I’d know who he was and his reply ” I’ll be the only black man there, I’ll be easy to spot.” While I found it amusing, sadly it was true. Because we homeschool and have the time, we participate in a variety of activities. One of these activities is Tae Kwon Do, which we got very involved with to the point of my oldest going to the Jr. Olympics. One result of this was an immersion into the Asian culture and many friendships. Our involvment with ministries and outreaches brings us in touch with many cultures and races. Even though we are a Christian family, the majority of our friends are Buddhist and we have several who are Muslim and Jewish. If our only involvment was our local public school this wouldn’t be possible because of the neighborhood we live in. Intolerance and racism is alive and well in our local school as there is a race war that has been going on for generations between the two perdominant races(4)
Number three is mostly covered in number four. Again, because of having extra time as our school day is about half of the public schools, we are involved in martial arts in another town 40 minutes away, Boy Scouts, church groups, the homeschool support group I founded, missions work and many other activities. So no, we aren’t “socializing” them with public school kids, but private school children as well as public school students and other homeschoolers. Our children know how to relate to those younger than themselves as well as older children and adults. Unlike public school students, my childrens peers are of all ages, backgrounds and races. It seems to me our activities and peers are far more diverse than what is offered in a public school setting. Anyway, when was the last time you applied for a job, and was told to go to the room with the other 40 year old workers? A public school classroom and socialization isn’t really “real life” now is it? (3)
Have you met more than a handful of homeschooled students? I must really wonder, as I have met that nerdy or geeky homeschooler, but I have also met several who would be considered quite “cool.” I have also met many a nerdy or geeky public schooled student as well. Could it possibly be that such traits are inborn and not a result of schooling methods? Anyway what is wrong with being a geek? I am sure Bill Gates was probaly a “geek.” (1)
This article is quite narrow minded and is very much what you are claiming homeschooling parents to be, including arrogant.
Tara B,
I am delighted by your defensiveness!
First, credit where credit is due: you sound like an excellent homeschooler. I applaud your commitment to giving your children a diverse childhood/educational experience.
I’m curious, where are you from?
- Yes, your choice is selfish. It benefits your children at the expense of the other students in the district. When something is good for you but bad for someone else, that makes it selfish, no?
- God, I’m sure, wants us all to live together in peace and harmony. Jesus preaches, to paraphrase, that we’re all in this together. God does not think your child should be afraid of the average lower middle class student. This much I know.
- If you think you can teach all the subjects as well as trained professionals (who, in most cases, live their subject area), then you are more than arrogant; you are a little insane. As far as English, for example, do you know about spell check? Punctuation?
- Furthermore, your child is missing out on the diverse perspectives those dozens of teachers would have given him/her. Are you so sure your perspective is right? I hope not… and that’s one reason our kids have new subject teachers every year.
- If you think the schools are failing–and thus, our society is failing–wouldn’t it be more Christian to do something about it than to hide away? And couldn’t you send your kids to public school and then supplement their learning at home?
- Finally, if you think that interacting with young people who go to church, homeschool, are in the boy scouts (and the like) represents a healthy cross section of society, you are wrong. You child is missing out on the rainbow of classes and types and sexualities (etc.) that can only be found in the public school system.
- Jesse
I am afraid you missed alot of what I said. Again, you are speculating that by our choices in activities, I am limiting my childrens awareness of other backgrounds. Where, if you read all I wrote, you would have seen we make our choices to give our children an awareness that just can’t be had at our local school.
We live in Southern California in Riverside County, Hemet School district to be exact, in a rather low income area. My children spend plenty of time with the students that attend this school, but I don’t feel they need to be educated with them.
Yes, I feel the system is failing and as a result, society will soon be behind. We are not hiding, we are out in the world, not secluded in a classroom with others of just our own age, just our own race, just our own religion. How “real life” is a classroom? I know of no other time in life where I have been secluded with other peers of my exact age, income level, and academic ability.
In regards to spelling and punctuation….I am responding to a blog post, not writing an English essay, therefore not overly concerned with the like. The proof is in the pudding, and in this case it is a sons rather impressive ASVAB scores. From my understanding far above the norm. Somehow, thankfully he managed to become educated, rather well, inspite of some sloppy spelling, and run-on sentences on my part!
Why should I have to supplement learning at home after my student spent 8 or so hours in the classroom? I hear of MANY parents doing this. But if the school was doing their job properly, why would that be needed? I can do a fine job in 3-4 hours at home, and still have plenty of time for a little real life socializing.
Afraid of lower income students? I am not sure where you are getting this one from. First off, we fall into that category ourselves, as many homeschool families do. Our outreach takes us to some of the lowest income and poverty stricken areas you can imagine not only out of the country, but here in our own neighborhood. By schooling at home we have the time and opportunity to be involved in food assistiance programs reaching out to those right here where we live as well as in far away places many children publicly educated probaly couldn’t even locate on a map.
Again, I have to go back to the classroom. Can you please explain how my local schools classroom of other 12th grade students who are more than likely either white or Native American and most likely claiming Christianity as their religion is more diverse than a martial arts class with people ranging in age from 4-90 something, of all skin colors and religions? Or more diverse than the people we meet on a missions trip to Haiti or Mexico? Or more diverse than a Scouting troup? This is leaving me a little confused….
Selfish? I guess call me selfish when I am concerned about raising up children who can read and write rather than my neighbors childs education. I love all children, but God gave me mine to raise, not my neighbors. I am willing to help my neighbor with their homework, but not willing to subject my child to a less than quality education on my neighbors behalf.
Arrogant and insane? Sure, guess I must be because little you say can convince me that I have accomplished excactly what you claim can’t be done by an ordinary parent without a higher education. That’s not just my opinion, but those test scores you trained teachers like to put so much emphasis on speak for themselves!
That should read have NOT accomplished, sorry! Oops!
Reading this article I must assume that this is meant to be a joke. No one could possibly be this uneducated about homeschooling, could they? Certainly not in this day and age?
Surely, no one actually believes that sitting in a classroom with only your age mates as “peers” is socialization? Right?
And, of course, no one believes that every parent tries to teach their older children every subject? Fathers and mothers generally have different areas of expertise and often both parents are involved. And of course the writer must be aware that parents of homeschoolers help each other in their areas of expertise and that we have “classes” via co-ops and at each other’s homes so that the Biologist is teaching Biology and the Attorney is teaching Government? And, the author must be aware that there are wonderful resources such as The Teaching Company, Thinkwell, Teaching Textbooks to pull from?
And, certainly, in today’s day and age, no one actually believes that all homeschoolers are all white and middle class or part of the Christian Right? Again, the author must have meant that as a parody. In our homeschool group, for example, we have Christians, Jews, Muslims, Wiccans, and multiple other beliefs. We have whites, hispanics, blacks, and people from various countries. We have wealthy people and we have people in very low income brackets. We have kids with disabilities and we have kids who are profoundly brilliant. Yet, there are no real cliques, there is no bullying, there are no drugs and our teenagers are out doing community service rather than making out under the stairwells.
So, of course, this article must have been meant as a parody — since no one in an enlightened society could actually believe that any of the author’s claims are true. It would be impossible for anyone with a teaching degree to be that ignorant, would it not? So, of course it must merely have been written for amusement.
Yet, amazingly, I am not amused.
What you have sounds more like an alternative school than homeschooling, doesn’t it?
“alternative school”??? huh? There’s no such program with that name.
Homeschooling IS alternative schooling. Obviously by definition, that’s what we’re talking about. That’s why so many people take issue with your article, Mr. Scaccia. You don’t appear to have done your homework on this article. You know not what you speak!
For argument sake, if it were to be called “alternative schooling” instead of “homeschooling”, would you be ok with that? Is that what you’re hung up on? The name?? If a rose were called by any other name, would it not still smell as sweet?
Perhaps what you are missing here is that this “alternative school” does not occur every day. Most of the time, these are 1 day per week (sometimes 2 or 3), though the teachers may assign work for the rest of the week.
It’s not really what most of us would call “alternative school,” but rather a bunch of parents, getting together to each give what they know.
No, it’s not an alternative school. We all homeschool as individuals, but parents offer each other help and support. That is what a homeschool group does. Our classes or seminars meet about once or twice a month and the rest of the time the kids work at home. What we offer is in no way a full curriculum, but rather either supplements or enrichment. However, since the kids usually end up having at least two classes every week and with park days, special events, dances, etc. they spend a lot of time together, even if it is not everyday. Not everyone in the group goes to every class and not everyone in the group goes to every event. If we did, there is no way our kids would have any time to do any “normal” academic work.
However, unlike the stereotypes, most homeschooled children are very socially well adjusted. They are aware of the counter culture their peers are in and do encounter it. They are not isolated. However, homeschooled children learn to socialize with all age groups and homeschooling is also becoming more diverse.
This is why people like this author feel threatened and need to write insulting articles like this one. Parents are doing a much better job than the so called professionals. Being one of those so called professionals myself, and having worked in public and private schools before becoming a mother, I feel very confident that in most cases homeschooling offers both a superior education and better opportunities for socialization.
Well said, Susan!
I have trouble believing the academic achievements of the author with such poor grammar.
Thank you Susan for your refreshing responses to this disparaging rant.
I posted my thoughts as well and also was a public school teacher before the birth of my daughter. I am working on my Masters of Education degree but balancing my academic commitments with my time enjoying my daughter. I am tiring of judgmental people who question why I have not put my child in daycare where she would greatly benefit from becoming socialized with other peers. Firstly, they like Mr. Scaccia fail to understand that a parent has the right to choose what is in the best interests of her/his child. Secondly, they often ascribe to the importance of paid work, placing little importance on the value of spending quality time with one’s own children.
The argument against homeschooling reminds me of John Fiske’s work on myths established within a culture to suit the needs of individuals who exert significant influence on society.
Homeschooling, like choosing to be a stay-at-home parent or homemaker, are frowned upon in our society thanks to how media depicts these groups and individuals like Mr. Scaccia who perpetuate these myths. My hope is that more individuals like yourself will continue to advocate for the importance of choice as a parent. John Taylor Gatto’s and Alfie Kohn’s works are certainly substantive enough to look at when making a case for home schooling.
Thanks again, Susan and to all the TRULY educated posters here who do not hide behind their credentials alone and raise them in defense to justify their arguments.
Bernadette
Homeschooling IS an alternative schooling option.
If by homeschooling, you mean only those that teach every single course from Kindergarten through 12th grade at the kitchen table and in the living room, then there are considerably few homeschoolers in this country. Obviously, some people do it that way. And a lot of people do it that way for certain years (we did also).
My mom calls what most of us do hybrid-schooling. People in the congregation get together to discuss various topics. Clubs are formed for certain interest groups. Park days and field trips are arranged by people in the community. Testing is done at the local public school. The local private school is a great place for a couple classes, yearly pictures, sports, etc. The community colleges as well as state and private universities allow concurrent and dual enrollment. Some even have programs for all ages of homeschoolers. Homeschool co-ops meet for classes–some for fun, some for credit. Online programs allow for literature discussions and German practice. But the majority of the work, over 11-13 yrs (depending) is done *from home.*
VERY few children are simply tied to the kitchen table getting no socialization and a mediocre education. Instead, mom chooses curricula, teaches, and finds outside resources as necessary. The idea is to provide better for the child. And most homeschoolers do get better across the board–socially, academically, spiritually, mentally, emotionally, physically and family wise.
And as for socialization? When is all this socialization taking place in schools? In the 4-6 minutes between classes? As Johnny shows his rear in class again and the teacher yells at him again? Maybe it’s during the 30 minutes of P.E. twice a week? Or during silent lunch periods and bathroom breaks? While he’s “tied” to the kitchen table crying over 2 hours of homework after being in school 6.5 hours and riding the bus 45min each direction?
REAL socialization happens in all situations the child is in. It happens in the real world all day every day. It happens in activities. It happens at the park and in the neighborhood with other free kids and when schooled kids finally get a break. But the most important socialization happens in the family–good or bad.
Sure, I’m selfish. I want the BEST for my children. I’m not willing to sacrifice them. Period. However, on that note, I’m not sure where you get the idea that we just take our kids out and never think of other kids and society at all. Many homeschool families DO work with public schools. They work tutoring kids. They work in community projects. They help their neighbors. They are part of organizations. They pay their taxes and buy from fundraisers. They read in Kindergartens and staple papers for the local school. They donate. They provide local ministries. Some homeschoolers, no doubt, pull out never to be heard from again, but not all. The rest of us are quite active, to our ability, in our communities.
But hey, you don’t have to like us
BTW, as a teacher , I think I’ll just take the attitude that I’m glad there is a group of people who care so passionately for their children that they are willing to do *whatever* it takes to give them the best childhoods, educations, and opportunities possible.
Alternative schools in Virginia are for children with profound behavioral problems… I can’t imagine how homeschooling and alternative schools would be remotely similar!
“Alternative school”, in this district, is a term for a facility which attends to the educational needs of the functionally illiterate and educationally at risk. So no, actually, it does not.
Do you truly believe that homeschooling can only be defined by the Duggar Family model? If so, might I suggest that “there are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy”?
Well said, Susan! If I didn’t know better, I’d say you must be a member of the homeschool group my family belongs to. LOL.
Excuse me? As far as grammar goes, you actually aren’t one of the highest on the totem pole: “So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?” Do you mean I? Because I’m pretty sure that’s
what you meant.
~Rhona
LOL! That jumped off the page and assaulted my “home-schooled” senses!
This whole article is the personification of of the “audacity of opinion” found in public educators today. This vacuous phlegm of regurgitated thought reveals an educator, deviod of rudimentary research skills, caught in meme, and struggling with the concept of critical thinking.
Thanks mom…at least I knew when to use “I” in place of “me”.
Your mom who taught you probably has an opinion too. Plus, this isn’t a classroom, this is a blog. It’s possible to teach children neutrally and blog with an opinion. And there is no way you can possibly generalize all of the workers in one of the most common jobs in the world as all being “devoid of research skills.”
And nobody talks like that. With the “I” in place of “me” thing. There is formal and informal writing, and blogs generally fall under the “informal.”
I believe the mentioning of the double majors in English was meant to impress and dazzle those of us who only have high school diplomas, A.A.’s or only declared one major when earning their B.A.’s. It would seem impossible for someone so educated to make such mistakes, even if it was “just a blog.”
Please explain how a rainbow of sexualities has any relevance on educating a child. Isn’t the purpose of education to learn to read, write, mathematics, and history?
Also, I’m curious from what scripture reference you are paraphrasing when you claim Jesus said, “We all in this together?” It’s not selfish to take our children out of the classroom. In fact, there’s more money left for the children still there now that the homeschoolers are not taking up valuable educational resources. If all students get a mediocre to bad education in this country what will become of it? Don’t kid yourself or try to make us believe that you really think any of us homeschoolers could help the public education in this country by putting our kids into the system. All the local school would do is say, Thanks little parent. We’ll take it from here!” The system is broken and all you bureaucrats don’t really want to fix it.
What you hate about homeschooling is that it makes obvious the problems with the public schools in that “unqualified” parents have just as good or better results doing the teaching themselves!
The public school system is not perfect but neither is homeschooling. I go to church and am friends with many homeschooled kids. A few have confided in me that their parents give them the answers to standardized tests. Public schools vary greatly by location; take for example New York City. In Forest Hills and Rego Park, Queens, middle income neighborhoods, the public education is excellent. But about 6-8 miles north in the Bronx housing projects, the education is terrible. Don’t “themify” public schools and their students and faculty just because you think you’re right.
Jesse,
I am an observer in this conversation, since I have no children and the topic does not concern me one way or the other, except in the quality of our future.
I would advise you to retreat and dress your wounds. You are definitely losing this argument, you have given nothing but emotional temper tandrum arguments. I can almost see you kicking your feet and flaying your hands as you scream, “My way, My way.”
You have not given one shred of evidence to support public school other than the old tired arguments and disproven arguments that have been used for years. Yet your opponents have given well-founded, proven facts and arguments to support their cause.
I do want to respond to two statements in your “reasons” to hate homeschoolers and hate is what you are displaying.
1. If you are going to make a statement about a person’s belief, you best do it from the viewpoint of the believer, if you are an agnostic you cannot speak of the Christian values without knowing what they are from the Christian viewpoint. You have totally spoken out of turn and you are displaying an intense intolerance of Christians in your usage of knowing what the Christian God thinks. In fact the Bible clearly states that no one can know the mind of God. Not even a devout Christian would make such an assinine statement presuming to know what God thinks. No where even with a Jessica paraphase version does Jesus say we are all in this together, he clearly delineates the goats from the sheep, the Pharisee (this would be you, the one who thinks they know it all and are perfect) from the tax collector, (the humble Christian attempting to teach moral values in a sinful world). He says, it is easy to follow the world but it is hard to follow Him and the world will hate those who do follow Him. (I think you have properly demonstrated this point.) He NEVER says we are in this together, what He does say is that all of us have a choice “Whosoever will” That is a choice, not a group statement. Jesus did not get crucified because He said, “Can’t we all just get along.” He was crucified because He said, “Follow Me.” There is a world of difference in those two phrases. One requires a lazy noble sounding response with no obligation, the other is total commitment.
This leads to the second idiotic statement you made,
“Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.”
Since when do parents need to send their kids to school to teach other kids, isn’t that your job? As a taxpayer I am paying you to do your job, not to push it off on another child who has the good fortune to have parents that provide a safe, moral environment that allows the child to learn better.
Underpriviled or less apt students, need parents, especially fathers, not other students to help them excel.
As one of the responses said, “You are an idiot.” The more you talk the more you prove her right.
She’s losing, but only about a quarter of these posts are balanced, thoughtful rebuttals. Most of them are hate-induced rants by people so entrenched in their own ways that they refuse to see both sides. And you and I both know that a child WILL do better when surrounded by well-meaning, determined peers, as compared to being surrounded by low-life, unmotivated peers (which is possible in public school but won’t happen if YOU raised them right) or compared to no peers at all. I am Christian and while I didn’t necessarily agree with the “we’re all in this together” condensation, you cannot possibly claim that Jesus instructed us to be judgmental. And tax collectors were not generally “humble, moral Christians” as you say they were. In Biblical times, tax collectors were seen by the general public as (and usually were) scoundrels who took kickbacks from the people for themselves and were unkind and unmerciful to their victims. (As opposed to Jesus; one of Jesus’s most famous personality attributes is “merciful.”) And I haven’t seen anyone prove anything here with statistics, verified research, or specific numbers. Mudslinging and calling people idiots doesn’t help. You are as closed-minded and Pharisee-like as the people you are angry at.
Jesse,
I’m confused by your response to Tara here.
1) You tell her that her choice is selfish. “It benefits your children at the expense of the other students in the district.” But your own definition of selfish is specific to what is “good for YOU” – not what is good for your children. Generally speaking, sacrificing oneself for one’s children is considered UNselfish. And homeschooling certainly involves sacrifice for the sake of one’s children. It would be a lot easier for me to send my kids off to school all day than to spend my whole day with them, making sure they get the quality education they need. If that means someone else’s child is deprived of my child’s presence, I’m sorry. But in the long run, the good my kids can do in society depends on my making sure they grow up happy, healthy, well educated, and well adjusted – and homeschooling makes that far more likely than sending them to school. I don’t see how giving up my own time and my own career so my children can have a solid education and become positive, contributing members of society is in any way selfish – even if it means that for a few years they are not mixing with other kids exactly their own age.
2) If you are in fact an agnostic, by definition you don’t know whether you even believe in God, much less what He wants. However, I would agree with you that He wants us to live in peace and harmony. I believe that teaching my kids at home, where I can guide them in their interactions with others of different ages, races, social classes, gender, and so on, will produce much more peace and harmony than putting them in a public school, where most of their interactions with others are unmonitored and uncorrected. As to being “afraid of the average lower middle class student,” that’s just plain ridiculous. Did you know that 1/4 of all homeschooling families are below the poverty line? The claim in the USA Today article you quoted about homeschoolers being “increasingly wealthy” based that statement on the fact that in 1999, 63.6% of homeschoolers made under $50,000 per year, but today 60% make over $50,000 per year. Did you know that the median income went up from $38,883 per year in 1999 to $50, 283 in 2008? Do you believe that making the median income equals being wealthy? And do you realize that means 40% of homeschooling families make less than the median income? So who’s “afraid of the average lower middle class student”? Certainly not most homeschoolers, many of whom are lower middle class students themselves. (And by the way, the wealthy can afford to send their children to private schools, and most do that rather than deal with the inconvenience of homeschooling them.)
3) As for qualifications to teach, I’m sorry, but I don’t see it. As a teacher, you are forced to use a curriculum written by committee and chosen by education professionals, not by those who are actually experts in their fields. I’ve worked and taught in the schools myself, and I know how little choice most public school teachers have in the material they actually teach. As a homeschooling parent, my responsibility is to make sure my child is learning what she needs to, and I have almost unlimited resources to draw on. I can buy books written by experts who actually work in their fields; I can purchase the foreign-language computer program the government uses to train its linguists; I can arrange for tutoring in math or computers by my computer-programmer brother-in-law; my child can join a community orchestra (since our local public high school doesn’t have one) or drama troupe; she can become a volunteer for the Denver Museum of Nature and Science (since she actually has time to do that); I can enroll her in an online class, a class at our local high school (if I feel that’s a good choice), or a community college class; I can arrange for her to intern with a scientist or other expert in a given area; or I can otherwise choose any way that seems best for her to learn what she needs to learn. I can integrate what she’s learning in English class with what she’s learning in history or art or music or all three. As a public school teacher, surely you recognize the value of having that kind of flexibility to be sure your students get the education that will best help them learn.
4) Hmm – diverse perspectives? Did it ever occur to you that my children’s interactions with people of all ages and all sorts of different social and economic status, as they are out in the world a significant part of every week, gives them far more diverse perspectives than your students get being shut in a classroom for almost 40 hours every week with other students just like them? And how much diversity can there really be in a few dozen teachers over the course of my child’s life, compared to the amount of diversity she experiences as she constantly interacts with hundreds of other people in the real world?
5) Absolutely, I think Christians ought to do something about the failing public schools and the failing society – and I think keeping our kids out of those schools and giving them a solid, healthy education is the first step. I don’t think kids can really have much influence on the public school system; thus, it seems to me it’s far better for ADULTS to do something about that system, either from the outside as concerned members of society and as taxpayers, or from the inside as teachers and administrators.
6) It’s possible that you are right: if my child were only interacting with kids their identical age who go to church, homeschool, or Boy Scouts, their exposure to society would be limited. But kids in school are also not being exposed to a healthy cross-section of society: 30 other kids from the same neighborhood, of exactly the same age and most likely of similar socioeconomic backgrounds and even races, hardly comes close to what our society as a whole is like. A healthy cross-section of society is not present in the public school system – it’s present in society, in the world as a whole – and my homeschooled kids, who have much more time available, are far more out in the world as a whole than public schooled kids are. My kids haven’t learned that black kids, Asian kids, Hispanic kids, and white kids are supposed to stay in their own little racial groups – they actually go up to kids of all ages and interact with them. Not only that, because I’m there with them, if they start to act squeamish about someone’s race, we can have a conversation about that. If they are rude to someone because of their social status, we have a conversation about that, too. If we go to the museum for a couple of hours, and stop for fast food in the neighborhood, my kids befriend the other people in that neighborhood (children and adults), though it is a lower-class, African-American community very different from our suburban one. If my daughters perform a dance routine at the local nursing home, they have no difficulty going up to the people in their wheelchairs, touching them, and talking with them. When they are at the park, my 13-year-old is happy to interact with another 13-year-old, a 10-year-old, a 6-year-old, or a 2-year-old. Even my 9-year-old willingly helps a younger child or plays with an older one. Instead of learning stereotypes from other children, they learn respect, kindness, and acceptance directly from adults. I’m sorry, but I think my children are getting a far healthier cross-section of society than your students are, and they’re getting it under adult supervision and guidance, so they actually benefit far more from it.
I hope you have a chance to actually interact with some real-life homeschooling teens sometime soon. I think you’ll find that across the board, the majority of homeschooled teenagers are wonderful kids, who are going to become great contributors to society as they go out into the world.
Very well stated. Thank you.
While I disagree with you, I do like that you have avoided name-calling and mudslinging, which most posters here cannot say they have done. I am in high school, and while I do know a few homeschooled kids who are great people such as your own children, the majority of the ones I know are screwed up in one direction or the other. One I know is 16 and so incredibly sheltered that he cannot go anywhere or do anything without adult or church supervision and cannot hold an articulate conversation with anyone his own age or older. All of the people he talks to are like 10 years old. His 5th grade brother still sucks his thumb. On the other hand, the homeschooled kids at this other church that I go to youth group at are 9 times out of 10 wild partiers who have sex and drink alcohol every chance they get because they were sheltered for so long and rebel at the first sight of freedom. I wish I knew more homeschooled kids like yours!
You’re kidding about the “sexualities,etc.” part, right? It’s not ANY school systems place to discuss sexuality at all with minor children. Yours, mine, someone else’s, regardless of the personal choices they make – it’s private, and inappropriate conversation in the context of a CHILD’S (as in, they’re not little adults) academic education. That it is even an issue is baffling. Oversexualizing elementary aged children, and sending teenage angst into hyper-drive by virtue of introducing concepts that should not even be items for consideration by their hormonally challenged brains is not education, it’s inappropriate socialization.
Your idea of socialization is disturbing, fraught with narcissism and self-indulgence – you’re so fab that you can single-handedly change the rules of grammar? Really, or should me ask “fer realz”? Exactly the kind of children I don’t want to raise, and not the kind I want my kids hanging around with. And it’s interesting, I used to laugh off the notion that public schools were the government venue for indoctrination of children into lives of substandard education and liberal group-think. But you’ve convinced me, they absolutely are.
It’s my responsibility, according to God and the laws of the state I live in, to protect my children from people like you, regardless of class and income. Not only are you completely wrong, you’re dangerous. But hey, thanks for the head’s up!
Thank you for your post- very well done! I echo what you have said. I especially appreciate your line, “God hates homeschooling? Really? As a self proclaimed Agnostic who are you to judge what God loves or hates? I don’t think God intended my five year old to go into “all the world” without proper training from a Christian parent, rather than a agnostic teacher.” Well put. Even Christians often and sadly misuse the whole “Salt and Light” argument…I wonder how can we send our precious children out into a world that will eat the alive without properly preparing them Spritually beforehand?
Thank you again for taking the time to write out all of your well directed thoughts!
Sincerely,
A Fellow Homeschooling Mom
There have been many well thought out, pointed arguments against homeschooling. This is not one of them. I feel that the only decent point here is that an untrainded parent simply isn’t trainded to teach all subjects. On the other hand, until about Middle School, many well educated parents are; but I digress.
The religious argument: you must read the Bible from all its angles. There is much guidance to be learned. The Jesus does give us the Great Commision to go into all the nations and preach his word, however, he also says to bring up a child in the way he should live and when he is older, he will not depart from it. So where does this leave the Christian parent who is weighing the pro’s and con’s? Well, as a Christian, the best place to start would be on your knees in prayer for guidance. Maybe, God would have you to homeschool your child for a certain amount of years. Maybe not. As Christians we are to offer ourselves and our families as living sacrifices to Him. This rebutle take care of the “selfish” issue as well. As a seemingly well educated person, I know you can understand this logic.
Your choice of the word geeky, I will admit, makes you seem a bit like a previous jock yourself. Isn’t it the job of a great teacher to make better the moral fiber of our students. I doubt this particular vernacular is the best way of modeling good citizenship. You are the teacher however, that is for you to decide.
By the way, I’m a public school teacher as well.
I am not a teacher but I think that if I were I’d be happy these people are homeschooling. I doubt there’d be any pleasing them and I’d rather not have to deal with them.
Thanks for saying what all the hs parents know. THAT is the point and the very sad reality of schools, teachers and people like you–you refuse to raise the bar.
The homeschooler parents have a MUCH higher expectations than what the schools provide. While the majority of school mottos across the country say essentially the same thing (“educate each child to reach his potential”), in reality, that is not practiced. I admire you for saying what most schools will not admit–that they are not equipped to accommodate each child, AND they are not even close to successful in satisfying the basic educational goals of the majority of the children.
And with that said, the schools should be GLAD that there’s SOMEONE there who will educate these children, especially when the schools won’t or can’t. They should be THANKING the parents, instead of calling them names.
The reason for the hostility is simple: public schools are paid by the head, so homeschooling cuts into their revenue stream.
It is sad, but true, that public education has become–at least to some extent–little more than a jobs program for education majors.
It’s true that the local district won’t get “per head” funds if I homeschool my child, but I still pay education taxes, and don’t use any of that funding, so, financially, the school system comes out on the plus side somewhere…
How do you feel about this, Cheryl?
If the public schools are paid per head then how come I’m still paying taxes to them even though I homeschool? HMMM! Makes you wonder.
In my school district, 9% of the school-aged children are homeschooled. Another 15% is private-schooled. Our public schools are already over-crowded and some classrooms are in trailer settings. I don’t think those in the system would know what to do if the student population increased by 25%. The School Board knows this, and leave us alone.
Of course you’re a public schoolteacher. You’ve misspelled both ‘trained’ and ‘untrained.’ I’m guessing you’re the shop teacher.
I caught that as well as “Commision” and “pro’s and con’s”. It’s Commission and pros and cons! Even my homeschooled 5th grader knows that.
As a long-time homeschooling parent who is a year away from graduating my oldest child, I have confidence that what we’ve done has been the best choice for our children. My son earned a 25 on his first attempt at his ACT (several points above the average for our local school district) and that was the first standardized test he had ever sat for.
You talk about diversity of ethnicity, sexuality, etc, but what about some tolerance for lifestyle choices? Different does not equal wrong, and history has shown that innovation and experimentation often lead to better ways of accomplishing a goal. Think of us as thousands of miniature education labs, testing theories that you can choose to use or reject in your classroom of the future.
Your comment in #2, about gambling on our children’s futures, made me laugh out loud. Our local school has approximately a 50% graduation rate, so you’d actually find it a safer bet that my child would fall on the right side of those odds??
Because parents have a vested interest in the future success of their children,we WANT them to become independent adults, not lazy couch potatoes. Homeschooling parents have made the difficult choice to sacrifice career goals, personal time, and LOTS of research and energy to prepare our children for whatever their future direction.
If you think homeschooling parents sit in front of the tv and toss a book in the children’s direction and call that good, you don’t know many homeschoolers at all. Most of us spend as much or more time networking and researching curriculum, learning styles, and supplemental methods as we do actually teaching.
In my home, where I educate5 sons, that means I have precious little ‘me time’ so to call me selfish or arrogant only reveals your ignorance of the topic. Homeschooling is a sacrifice I make because I love my children, and in the same way childbearing, nursing, and changing diapers wasn’t the absolutely most thrilling part of my day, it was worth it to provide the best I could for my child. It’s just what parents do.
I find it a bit hypocritical of you to say that because our children don’t spend every day in a classroom where they’d be exposed to real-life diversity they can’t possibly be tolerant. Does that mean because your students only read about history they can’t apply it to real-life situations? or that because your student hasn’t had sex yet they don’t understand about STDs and birth control? Some subjects can be taught through conversation and example BEFORE it becomes necessary for application. Because I spend many hours of each day with my children, we have plenty of time for those discussions AND we have a close relationship so they come up naturally and are not contrived or awkward at all.
One final (and admittedly very minor) point:
quote: As far as English, for example, do you know about spell check?
To this I say “People who live in glass houses shouldn’t throw stones”. I chose to ignore your grammatical errors in your original article and in your reply to the first comment because when issues are emotional we’re sometimes thinking faster than our fingers or our training can keep up. Another reason for silly errors is environmental, for example while I’m typing this the tv is on, my husband has interrupted several times to talk to me, my youngest son has been showing me successive LEGO creations, and my ‘n’ key is missing from my keyboard. Please let’s give one another some grace on these issues and stick to the point.
You are so ignorant. Every point you made is wrong, wrong, wrong!
#10. Who cares what the jocks and popular kids are saying about homeschoolers? They fail out of school, while the intelligent ones get degrees and become leaders of our country.
#9. We have a separate school room with desks, posters, and a marker board. We do our school work there, and live in the rest of the house–separately. We don’t watch TV during the week either.
#8. Of the homeschoolers I know, NONE are rich and most are middle-class working families who wish to give their children the best possible education while also remaining close to them. They sacrifice a lot to make sure they can homeschool. How is that selfish?
#7. Not all homeschoolers are fundamentalists. We are secular homeschoolers and do not attend any kind of church, but we do study all religions as a subject.
#6. Yes, I do believe I can teach better than you. I received a BA in English and also have minors in education and history. I graduated with a 3.9 and got many awards and recognition for honors work. I had been trained to become an English teacher and spent 160+ hours working at schools. I now work as a writer while I homeschool my children. My husband also has a degree, a BFA with minors in art education and zoology (he was going to be a vet, but fell in love with art). We are both returning to graduate school next year and will continue to homeschool our three children.
#5. Sorry that homeschooling pisses you off. Perhaps when you have children, you will feel differently. Don’t be offended. There are plenty more parents that don’t care for their children, and surely they will send them to public school.
#4. Is your family interracial? Perhaps this is why you are ingnorant. We have people in our families and well as our circle of friends that are all colors, creeds, and religions.
#3. Homeschooling produces intelligent and caring individuals that are mature beyond their years. When we go to the park, swimming lessons, sports meets and other activities, it is the public-schooled kids that don’t know how to behave in social settings.
#2. There are many risks in life. It’s a part of growing up. I feel that my chances are much better with homeschooling than public schooling.
#1. Again, your own ingnorance shows. Most celebrities choose to homeschool their children. Are they “geeky?”
I think your experience with homeschoolers has been very limited, and you like to classify people into stereotypical groups. Next time, open your mind to the possibility that homeschoolers are intelligent people who are self-sacrificing when it comes to the welfare of their children.
“So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?” Hey English expert, correct me if I’m wrong, but shouldn’t it be, “… you think you can teach English as well as I can?”
While I am a public school teacher, I have had plenty of experience with a variety of alternative schooling – my own (at various points) and as the parent of a child who attended both private and charter schools and eventually graduated high school through an independent studies program at our local public high school. My other child has gone public school through the 8th grade so far. They are two very different kinds of people and learners and we have been lucky that my son is the kind of student who can do well at a traditional public school. My daughter, being more artistically inclined, impulsive, easily distracted, etc… did not do so well in this setting – she needed something else. I wish that I had had the luxury of staying home with her to teach her, I thought about it a lot, but being a single-parent, that was not an option for me.
While I think that it is the responsibility of the members of society to hold schools, districts, and the state accountable for having quality schools, I also believe that some of the beautiful things about our country (did I just say that?) are that people have choices and that, as a nation, we consist of all kinds of people. That includes having different kinds of families that raise and educate their children in different ways.
Philosophically, I don’t agree when people from higher income brackets keep their kids out of public schools to put them in homogeneous private schools. Unfortunately, putting the kids all together doesn’t solve every problem, and actually creates new problems. I graduated from Berkeley High School, probably one of the most diverse high schools anywhere. From my experience there, I benefitted from going to school with kids from all ethnic backgrounds and from a range of socioeconomic statuses. The advantages of that included being exposed to a variety of ways of thinking – including ways I don’t agree with.
What is problematic at BHS, is that, generally speaking, the Asian and White kids did the best (best test scores, college bound, etc.) while the Black and Latino kids did the poorest. This is part of a larger social problem and, so far, has not been properly addressed by our school system or society. So while the school, with a student population of 3,000 can claim they are diverse, they are not doing right by those children – any of them- to be only properly educating SOME of them.
I have seen two examples in my community where African American parents homeschooled their kids with other parents and eventually those families grew into two different small private Afro-centric schools. I spent time in these schools and saw lots of time and care and attention given to these students. There was deep critical thought and students got lots of support in their intellectual growth. That doesn’t always happen in regular public schools and so those parents were doing the best they could for their kids. The kids were being raised with love and attention and they would grow to know themselves well, and therefore, would be able to accept others as they are (or intellectually challenge them if necessary).
I think that raising compassionate tolerant kids happens mostly in the home and that it is our job as teachers to be an extension of that learning. Unfortunately, sometimes school is the only place where that happens, but public schooling is no guarantee of future open-minded and open-hearted people. It would be oh-so-lovely if that was the one characteristic we could give our kids, wherever their formal education happens… we would live in a different world.
It sounds to me like Tara is doing a fabulous job of exposing her kids to a variety of people and ideas. While it gave me shivers to hear her say that her son scored high for a “military entrance exam?”… everything else in your post showed me that you are making every effort to have your children learn about the world and it’s wonderful diversity.
What is surprising and disappointing to me is that this post got so much reaction. Jesse has posted many other entries that I felt have been quite offensive. I would love to hear some reaction to his ideas whether they are about issues that affect you directly or not. We should all be ensuring that EVERY child in our society gets a solid education, our children, as well as our neighbors.
I, for one, am deeply indebted to Tara and her child who took the military entrance exam. Thank God (or not, if you wish) for the people who are willing to make these sacrifices so you have the right to say what you want, and worship (or not) whomever you like.
I agree with you. Kudos to Tara for raising a son of honorable character. His military experience will provide a broad exposure to and understanding of other cultures. I’d be willing to bet money that he will learn more than many who go straight to college.
ABSOLUTELY, Julie. Thank you, Tara!
jill, that degree of ingratitude is disgusting. You do not deserve the protection you are being given and should be too ashamed to benefit from it.
This takes on a bit of a Michael Moorish tone, but the 4 core points of Jesse’s position seem rock solid to me.
A parent cannot cover all of the disciplines of a high school education.
There is a stigma attached to homeschooled kids like it or not.
There is a certain selfishness and arrogance to homeschooling, which seems to me rooted in a hyper-inflated sense of trying to protect your kids.
A moral education and a social education are interrelated and to deny your kids the social education of public schools is denying them a moral education.
I have posted a rebuttal on my blog Mr. Scaccia’s diatribe. The addendum asking if any homeschoolers would like to cooperate with this website is laughable. No, really, we don’t enjoy being kicked around. Thanks anyway!
But as for public schools being the foundation of a moral education, I can think of few things farther from the truth. Exactly what morals are being taught in public schools? Eleven of my 13 years of schooling were at public schools. I learned what clothing you needed to wear to be popular. I learned who was having a party on the weekend when their parents were away. I also learned math and grammar and stuff like that. I did not learn morality – things like Thou shall not kill and Thou shall not name call and Thou shall treat others the way you wish to be treated. Nope, mom and dad taught me that stuff.
Michelle,
I am much, much, much more ignorant to the world of homeschooling than you are. I am comfortable admitting that. My opinion is based on my experiences as a classroom teacher and as a human in society.
I have no problem asking for other to help fill in my knowledge gaps (and that of our readers). Hence, my call for one or some of you to write for us.
Even though I write with confidence bordering on aggression… and even though I think I’m right… it is a subjective world we live in, and I am never Right. None of us are.
So I ask you (and whoever else) to consider my offer. I would love to read about a homeschooling parent’s day to day experiences.
Our differences aside, to all homeschoolers:
Thank you for being a teacher.
teacherrevised/article author–
If you lack information, I think it’s irresponsible of you to write an article as an “expert”, with an article titled, “The case against…”. It implies that you have done the proper research and this is your guided conclusion. So, you already made the first mistake of Journalism 101. You didn’t do your research!
If you were just wanting to gather information and learn more, than you should have asked for it via a bulletin board or a Q&A forum.
Furthermore, I’m appalled of your admittance that you haven’t even researched (or read) about homeschool parents to find out what a typical day (newsflash: there’s no “typical day” for a homeschooler) is. I would have thought that would have been your first assignment of research before you even wrote down a single letter towards the article. How can you criticize homeschool parents and their children when you haven’t even shadowed one, or interviewed one, or even read over their reports, etc.???? Now, I’m just dubious about all of your credentials. Even an 10-year-old child knows to do the research before writing a report.
Furthermore, while you are allowed to be subjective, I did not draw the conclusion that your article was an editorial. THAT is where the subjective articles need to go. And they need to be marked as such.
What a complete quack!
There is a delicious irony in your citing the purported arrogance of homeschooling parents as an argument against homeschooling, when you have written your entire article with such overweening arrogance that you don’t think you have to know anything about home schooling to condemn it. Attitudes from school “professionals” such as you display go a long way towards explaining why so many intelligent, well-educated parents now home school if they do not have good private schools available, or choose not (or cannot afford) to send their children to private schools.
One of my daughter’s best friends in high school was home schooled in Manhattan – that’s right, New York County, New York. Our daughters met at the pre-college division of Manhattan School of Music, where they both studied on Saturdays. Her home school experience at the high school level included a number of groups assembled for particular courses — science courses taught by Columbia doctoral candidates, literature, language, economics, history and philosophy courses taught by moonlighting faculty from universities such as Princeton, Pennsylvania, NYU and Columbia/Barnard. While taught with a more traditional bent than is currently fashionable, the academic standards were high, and the texts were always at an AP level. Athletics were mostly with various AAU clubs in the area, or riding in summers working on relatives’ Midwestern farms. The only thing she “missed” was the political indoctrination, crime, poor teaching and time spent on extraneous matters in her neighborhood public high school.
The young lady went to the same college as my daughter who attended a good suburban public high school — with which we were increasingly unhappy — and did at least as well.
Life is about choices. I refuse to accept the premise that it is selfish for a parent to want to ensure that his or her children are taught in a safe, nondisruptive learning environment with a primary emphasis on the academic content being taught.
When I was a student in what were generally considered above average California public schools in the 1950s and early 1960s, it was my observation that even in those halcyon days something like 3 out of 4 public school teachers were incompetent, stupid, or burned out. In my more recent experience with my own children in a nationally recognized suburban school system, that’s still a fair estimate.
At the elementary level, few of the teachers had completed majors in an academic subject (as opposed to elementary education). At the middle and high school level, the majority of the faculty were simply not that bright, and politically they were almost all somewhere to the left of the Gang of Four. Those with whom I crossed swords within my areas of doctoral level expertise — history, philosophy, and economics — hadn’t read the most significant literature in the fields and didn’t present alternative interpretations because (when questioned closely) they didn’t know them. No thank you. I would home school in a heart beat were I to do it over.
If it’s subjective than you can not claim to be right, nor can you claim that homeschoolers are wrong.
And if your “experience” is wrong and you are basing your opinion on that “experience”, than your opinion is also wrong.
Personally, your “experience” seems so far off from the hundreds of homeschool families that I have known and currently know, I find it hard to believe that you are basing your opinions on your “experience”.
>it is a subjective world we live in, and I am never Right. None of us are.
Oh, the IRONY!
You are an amazing specimen. I am saving your writing for my children to study when they are older. I have told acquaintances that people like you exist, but many can’t believe me.
Despite your degrees, you lack the simple grounding in logic to understand how ridiculous this claim is.
If you cannot be right, then you CAN MAKE NO ARGUMENT. WHATSOEVER. Can you understand this? Let me try in simpler terms:
Without right, there is no wrong.
Truth values do not exist except in a subjective sense.
At BEST, you are indulging in the only moral infraction possible in such a system–that is, trying to change other people’s beliefs. You are doing it here, and you do it EVERY DAY at school when you try to teach students ANYTHING.
It is one of the great ironies of moral relativism that relativists are so aggressively polemical about their beliefs. The problem is that the existence of non-relativistic beliefs cause a fundamental, irreconcilable paradox. A relativist must believe that all other viewpoints are as valid as his own, AND YET the existence of a non-relativistic viewpoint invalidates relativism. Unable to accept this, the modern relativist attempts to destroy the non-relativist viewpoints by labeling them “intolerant” (even though objective intolerance CANNOT EXIST in a relativistic universe!).
I believe it was Socrates who put down the first Western relativist so succinctly and completely that relativism disappeared from the West for thousands of years. The argument went approximately like this:
“Everyone’s subjective belief is equally valid.”
“I believe that you are wrong.”
From this conundrum, relativism CANNOT BE RESCUED. It is only since education has become debased to such a point that logic is completely neglected and the validity of an argument is judged emotionally (just as your entire argument was formulated emotionally) that people have been stupid enough to buy into this.
The scariest thing of all is that getting people to reject objective reality is the first step in getting them to accept a reality of someone else’s devising. You are the ultimate example of a modern American mind-slave.
Ryan–
(1) Most homeschooled students score higher than the public school counterparts, so I guess they ARE covering all the disciplines of a h.s. education.
(2) There is a stigma associated with lots of things. That doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it. There’s a stigma for girls to be better than boys in math and sports. Are you going to tell your daughter to not do her best based on the stigma?
(3) Of course there is a selfishness to homeschooling, the same one that makes some parents choose private schools or parochial schools, or magnet schools. As well as the same selfishness that makes sure their child has a computer or a safe neighborhood to grow up in. It’s called…wanting the best for your child. If someone has a child, and they don’t have that “selfishness”, then THEY are the ones I’d be concerned about.
(4) To argue that public schools are the only places to gain social and moral skills is VERY absurd. In fact, I’d argue the opposite. I would say that kids in public schools these days are less socially ready and definitely more morally corrupt that the average homeschooled child.
Absolutely. Thank you. As far as moral education goes, my family attends church and the children are about to start Sunday school. My daughter and I read the New-England Primer. It says “The sabbath is to be sanctified by an holy resting all that day, even from such worldly employments and recreations as are lawful on other days, and spending the whole time in public and private exercises of God’s worship, except so much as is to be taken up in the works of necessity and mercy.” We do our best to keep the Sabbath in this very manner. So, from the moment we wake up to the moment we go to sleep, in all free time, we try to be reading the Bible, the Primer, and catechism, and working on crafts, puzzles, and the like that teach children about Christianity. During the rest of the week, we spend a lot of time on McGuffey, Town, and Sanders readers, which are replete with moralistic stories. My daughter has also read (and enjoyed!) Struwwelpeter, a book of cautionary tales, and I read Goody Two-Shoes to her. George Washington’s Rules of Civility is being shipped to us as I type this. We also have many serious discussions, normally more than once a day, about ethical concerns, and she loves to read the Ten Commandments. As of yet, she is only four-and-a-half. Is she being denied a moral education? What more could I do?
My guess that part of the stigma against homeschooled kids is that they don’t have to get up before daylight to catch a bus to sit through a very long day of drudgery for 13 or more years of their lives. Instead, they get to live rich and meaningful lives while they are still children and teens. They have time to play, to work, and to volunteer. When they go to a museum, they are not shuffled through like a herd of cattle, but instead get to enjoy the exhibits. If they have to go to the bathroom, they go to the bathroom without a pass. If they are hungry they don’t have to wait for the bell to eat. They can walk down the hall without getting groped and they can work and learn at their own pace.
Yes, I can see where a child in school would have resentment for a homeschooled child. They have lives.
This is so true. At one point, my schooled teen came home complaining about the field trip they had just taken to an Art Museum that my unschooled young one had so often enjoyed. When we asked him:
Did you see the frozen explosion?
Did you see the Diorama Rooms?
Did you see the Asian Art Room?
Did you see the Endless Star room?
For each of these questions, representing all the parts we most enjoyed, his answer was “No.”
So, we took him out of school for a day in order to experience the Art Museum as the ‘real world’ does. He had a great time choosing where to go and reading the display signs and discussing the exhibits and what they made us feel and think.
I’m glad that on this occasion, he was able to unlearn the disdain he had felt for the museum, which from his description was a series of lectures punctuated by security guards reminding them not to touch, all in a single section of the museum.
While I respect the need for information transmission and the desire to focus on a single area, his school field trip could have been more positive if they had allowed for some exploration, discussion and enjoyment.
Lectures can be done at school. Imposing them on a field trip detracts from the joy of learning, something sadly missing from most school experiences.
Do you realize by saying that I, as a parent, can not cover all the disciplines of a high school education, that you are calling me an idiot? Please give me a break. Public high school is really not that hard and they will graduate just about anybody anyway.
Regardless of the fact that you say it’s not possible, for the last 14 years I’ve somehow managed to raise/homeschool a responsible, polite child who is an athlete, a musician, a writer, a roboticist and who was admitted to college at 13 years old. He has lots of friends of all ages from toddler to adult. The public school teens in my neighborhood hang around the clubhouse parking lot smoking, drinking beer and cussing. Am I supposed to feel bad that my son isn’t a part of their “non-geeky” group, or that he’s probably out doing charity work instead of wasting time on facebook? Oh brother!
Weeelllllll, seems to me, Saj, that what this person is saying is that the public schools failed you if you can’t handle the subjects you were taught by these *supposed* experts on teaching.
Who says all of the disciplines need to be covered by a single parent? There are so many resources for homeschoolers, many have been mentioned in posts preceeding this one.
There are social stigma’s attached to individuals for a miriad of reasons, so what?
Maybe, I suppose that would all be in your perspective.
I suppose a homeschooler could deny their child any social contact with the outside world thereby denying them a social education. I would venture to guess most don’t though.
Hey Ryan!
#1 Parents are proving you wrong every day. SAT, ACT and CAT scores, required for college entrance are proving it out. If they don’t care, why should you?
#2 Oh well
#3 We’re not at the hyper-inflated state yet. Just inflated. And, we’re not “trying” to protect our kids. We ARE. I also protect my rose bushes in the Winter.
#4 Exactly! I would add that there are a lot of things I am “denying” my children. But I am most definitely not denying them a moral education. It just depends on whose morals you are talking about: yours or mine?
Ryan, you’re wrong.
First and foremost, there is not, with rare exception ,any such thing as “a hyper-inflated sense of trying to protect your kids” – it’s a parent’s primary job. Parents should stop abdicating that responsibility to others, rather than expecting others to do their job and then whining that it’s not up to their standards. Or laying blame on others when their child becomes a criminal, a victim, or both.
Yes, I can cover all the core educational requirements of high school, and then some. Again, regardless of where or how my child learns, it’s my responsibility and my decision with regard to approach, cirriculum, outside resources, etc. I’m looking forward to all of us learning Latin together. Care to join us? Or are you off to socialization class? There’s no such thing. It’s the difference between real learning and time-wasting, something our public schools, and many of our public institutions, have elevated to an art-form.
The only stigma attached to homeschooling is perpetuated by ignorant or self-serving people who begrudge others their free-thinking. Scary. And guess what – because homeschooled children are properly socialized, most of them couldn’t care less what those ignorant people think of them.
Since when is public school a “moral” authority on anything? Everything they do, from funneling students through hallways on colored tape lines like inmates, to so called “healthy” school lunches that are perpetuating the obesity epidemic and general ill health of our children in the interest of giant collective industrial farms, is abjectly immoral.
Sorry, but you do sound just like Michael Moore. He can be very entertaining, but his movies are always in the wrong category at the video store – documentaries are by definition required to be based in fact, he belongs in science fiction.
>A moral education and a social education are interrelated and to deny your kids the social education of public schools is denying them a moral education.
Exactly. All the more reason to home-educate.
Only the ignorant, stupid, and envious stigmatize homeschooling. Only the ignorant and stupid stigmatize interracial marriage. And I care, why?
There are plenty of people who can, indeed, successfully homeschool every single high school subject. Those who can’t have many, many options: co-ops, correspondence courses, online courses, community college, tutoring, special camps and other classes. There are also many, many public schools who turn out fewer than a dozen college-capable graduates a year. I don’t see you arguing that this is an intractable problem of public schooling.
You think homeschooling is overprotective only because you know nothing about it. For many, it is instead inspired by a desire to get kids OUT of the false world of school and into the real adult world. If you know not of that which you speak, why talk at all?
Wow! This article sounds like it was written by an angry, immature 12-year old…what’s up Jesse? Did a homeschool kid just outsmart you in the grocery store or something?
First of all, you lose all credibility with me when you start out by insulting both parent and child (“society-phobic mother” and “geek homeschool child”). In all your self-proclaimed years of journalism, teaching and writing training, didn’t you learn that in a persuasive essay, alienating your opposition is generally not the way to gain respect and win the argument?
Secondly, you lost credibilty in your grammatical errors (“…you can teach English as well as me?”) in the very sentence that you’re trying to persuade me that you are more versed and more qualified TO TEACH ENGLISH than I am.
Thirdly, most of your arguments were based on opinion, not fact. I don’t care if you think the family home “should not” be used for learning. That’s irrelevant, if not crazy. Where do children learn the minute they are born? THE HOME! The family house is the first learning center. Are you going to outlaw home learning for toddlers too??
With your logic, I’ll be expecting your next article to be an argument against adults who work from home, and the outlaw of home offices. The title could read: Work should only be done in office buildings, and not homes. ?!
More obviously, since you’re only QUALIFIED to teach English, you seem to have forgotten your history. Schools are a new concept. Learning, for many centuries, was ALWAYS done at home. Everyone was homeschooled. Are you going to argue that “those homeschooled children of many centuries ago” were arrogant, unsocialized, and stupid too?
Lastly, you’re accusing homeschool parents and children of being arrogant. But your entire article was based on your own arrogance, prejudice and lack of openness. I’m not sure why you don’t understand that it’s public school teachers like yourself, with your close-mindedness and arrogance, that are the EXACT reasons why loving parents are running away from public schools and deciding to homeschool.
My children attend public school most of the day, but I am open enough to realize that there are other options. If one of my children were assigned a teacher like you, I would immediately ask the principal for a class change. It’s people like YOU, not the actual school, that parents want to avoid–YOU are the bad influence!
Amen, sister.
The poll question for tomorrow: Why are homeschooling parents and students so defensive?
(Possible answer: They weren’t teased and challenged enough at public school, and thus never learned how to have an unemotional conversation about a topic that impacts them.)
Let me make one thing clear first: I value a parent’s right to homeschool their child; it is a choice I would never want to be taken away.
Of course my article was extremely one-sided: It was called “The case against homeschooling.” There is much to be admired about homeschooling, starting with the strength of the parents to make what is, we must admit, an anti-social choice. So cheers on that point, and on the commitment you all have made to your children. Though it may be somewhat misguided in my opinion, your children all (should) know that they are very loved.
That said…
In no way was I trying to convince an existing homeschooler to send their kids to public school. Homeschoolers are a fringe group, and their single-minded dedication to their cause is not going to be dampened by a blog writer. It’s interesting… in the frothy passion of your responses I get hints of the arrogance it takes to believe one is a better teacher than the combined skill of the dozens of trained educators your child would have learned from in schools.
How can a person possibly believe that? It is like believing that one newspaper gives you all the news (and every side of it). It is like thinking that one religion has all the answers. It is thinking that homeschooling father (or mother) knows best.
Yes, OF COURSE, you think that you’re giving your child a good education. But you’re also feeding them a pre-packaged set of ideas/ideals/morals. Who is to say that this is the right tv dinner for your child’s soul? And if you answer ‘yes,’ how do you know? Why should I trust you alone with your child’s mind? You’re passing on your biases as facts!
Even though I’m a teacher, I don’t believe that education (or test scores) is the most important thing in a person’s life. Feeling full-filled, and finding oneself, are far more important. My path to finding myself took me to washing dishes in a national park; to studying in Florence; to teaching swimming in Florida; to Brooklyn and San Diego and Cape Town… If my parents had sheltered me through homeschooling, would I have had the confidence to see how my personality fit in all these places? Would I have become myself, or a doll that my mother and father spent every school day creating?
In response to if I would call “those homeschooled children of many centuries ago arrogant, unsocialized, and stupid too”… First of all, I’m calling the parents arrogant; the children are the victims. And stupid, no. Maybe unworldly or uncultured, though, sure. Unsocialized? Definitely. To be socialized within one’s family does not make an individual socialized. Being able to communicate and understand and live and flourish in various environments does.
I ask homeschooling parents, do you want your children to be citizens of the world, or citizens of your home?
You all have made fine, thoughtful points, but on this I will not budge: Homeschooling denies the child the grab bag of viewpoints needed to form a self-actualized adult. No parent-or teacher-understands all of the world’s phenomenon, facts and perspectives thoroughly enough to say they are the only teacher their child needs. That, I will always submit, is a small lunacy.
wow. You are calling Aristotle, Socrates, Beethoven, Mozart, and even Shakespeare “victims”, “unsocialized”, and my favorites…”uncultured” and “unworldly”.
Please let me know where you “teach” so that I can definitely avoid that school and your classroom like the plague. It’s very saddening to know that you, as a TEACHER, have been given the gift of having an impact on children, and this is what you would teach them.
Like I said before….it’s “teachers” like you that our school systems (and society) do not need.
The poll question for tomorrow: Why are homeschooling parents and students so defensive?
Um. Maybe it’s because you labeled us as self-aggrandized and society-phobic, and our children as geeks?
If you really want to start a dialogue, maybe you should NOT start out with the classic “playground bully” method of name-calling.
Don’t worry about it Megan. You know what they say about people who resort to calling others names….it’s because they have a limited vocabulary. Maybe he skipped one too many classes or missed the kindergarten lesson on playing “nice”.
OK, this is really funny–your comments are supposed to be an “unemotional” conversation? Perhaps all the teasing has made you forget what it means to be nice. (Sorry, that was not nice.)
Have you looked at studies of homeschooled children? It turns out, they are MORE likely to be happy and fulfilled, MORE likely to read a variety of newspapers and publications, MORE likely to vote and be active in their communities–all the things you are lauding as signs of a good and proper education.
It turns out that public school students are more likely to be depressed, to drop out of school (and often life), to not care enough to vote.
Note, I am NOT saying this is true of all, in either group. I am discussing the over-all statistics, and they just do not support your points.
I want my children to be citizens of the the world, not just subjects of their bureaucratic employer or school.
I want my kids to know about a variety of cultures, and we study them in more depth than most public schools.
I want my kids to play with kids from all over town (as they do on homeschool field trips), not just the ones from my neighborhood.
I want my kids to not notice whether kids are black, white, or purple (which they cannot do in our local schools, where the kids themselves segregate themselves into groups of “their own kind”).
Is it selfish of me to want this for my kids? Maybe.
It is equally selfish for the school to want my kids, in order to raise their own test score results or have more kids who can “help” with underpriviledged kids. I’m sorry–no, I’m not sorry–it is not my child’s job to rescue your school. It is MY job to provide the best I can for the children who are my responsibility.
I don’t think going to a government school offers childrens enough viewpoints for them to be citizens of the world. In the school we just left:
EVERY single teacher:
Was a registered democrat
They all the same POV on every topic that came up -all towed the party line, same pat responses to every question, etc.
They were majority white females
All hated to read for pleasure, and were math phobic.
None could write a letter without errors.
All were ignorant on what I feel is basic educational theories, teaching methods, etc.
The same view given by 20 different people is not a variety. Out of 7 teachers, my kids learned the same black history year after year: Martine Luther King is the greatest man that ever lived. He freed the slaves. Every white person that existed owned slaves and all black people were slaves. Black people invented everything, wrote everyting, drew/painted everything. Every Feb, out came the same pictures of Beyonce, Whoopi, Chris Rock, Snoop Dog and all the other pillars of the community. You had to do a report on black person. No other race was allowed any year. This is not diverse. Focusing your history on any one race is just plain wrong!
The teachers worked as a “team”. They were told what to teach, when to teach. Everyone in the grade had the exact same homework, etc. Textbooks were selected by a committee (I was on the committee lol but outvoted because the book I chose didn’t come with any free gadgets for the teachers). Teachers came and went every year but the same lessons were taught (what my daughter got in grade one, my son got in grade one despite different teachers). I had a teacher tell me that she would only differentiate if it was built in the curriculum.
Teaching creationsim only is not diverse but teaching evolution only apparantly is (BTW, our family is theistic evolutionsists, we teach both)
Yes, I am arrogant enough to think I can give my child a better education, especially for grade school and middle school. Our school didn’t teach phonics, spelling rules, grammar rules, math facts, history other than black history, or the scientific method. This is not my opinion. I was told by principal “We don’t teach____”. In high school,we plan to dually enroll with a local college for math and science. I personally don’t think that feeling I know what is best for “my” child is any more arrogant than saying that a government employee who doesn’t even know my child knows best.
You say being full-filled is one of the most important things in life. I agree. By homeschooling, my daughter now has time to pursue her interests in animal care: Doing intense research on birds, horseback riding lessons, shark and worm dissections, creating a blog about animals, doing research papers on animals, shadowing a vet for a day, volunteering at a raptor rehabilitation center and a local dog park, and starting a dog walking business. She was unable to do this all after school as she is a competive cheerleader.
Because we are not tied to school schedule, we can take school with us. We’ve rafted the Nantahala, kayaked Palm Coast, airboated in the Everglades, hiked the Blue Ridge Mountains, gone rock climbing, explored Mammoth Caves (all in the past year). My kids are currently too young, but many of our friends’ older teens have gone out of the country on missions trips with and without their families. Almost all take outside classes at one of the local colleges or university or in a co-op that hires professionals. Almost all have a passion that they pursue and either have a job or do volunteer work that relates.
So why are we all so defensive because the majority of us are not society phobic, religous fanatics that keep our kids in a vacuum of ignorance. Twenty years ago, that may have been the norm but today’s homeschoolers a different breed. We know homeschoolers of every color, religion, political persuasion, etc. We know single parent mom homeschoolers, homeschooling dads, work at home homeschoolers, homeschoolers who bring their kids to the office, homeschooling grandparents, rich homeschoolers, poor homeschoolers, large families and families with an only child. There is also a variety of teaching methods, curriculums, etc. There is a lot of variety in the reasons they homeschool too.
“My path to finding myself took me to washing dishes in a national park; to studying in Florence; to teaching swimming in Florida; to Brooklyn and San Diego and Cape Town… If my parents had sheltered me through homeschooling, would I have had the confidence to see how my personality fit in all these places? Would I have become myself, or a doll that my mother and father spent every school day creating?”
Why do you equate confidence with public schooling? How does public schooling give one confidence? The doll statement is quite funny. Homeschooling isn’t about creating a doll. It isn’t about making my child be what I want them to be, but individualizing their education so they can reach their full potential.
“I ask homeschooling parents, do you want your children to be citizens of the world, or citizens of your home?”
How is going to public school make my child a citizen of the world? When I worked in a public school most of the elementary children I worked with thought the world was their state and had no idea about the world. My children are engaging in an in depth study of the world and it’s cultures. They are learning several languages. The world is full of people of all races, ages, and economic levels. Forced segregation into age groups in one specific location isn’t helping my child become knowledgeable about the world.
“Homeschooling denies the child the grab bag of viewpoints needed to form a self-actualized adult. No parent-or teacher-understands all of the world’s phenomenon, facts and perspectives thoroughly enough to say they are the only teacher their child needs. ”
That would be an incorrect assumption in the way I homeschool. Sure I don’t understand everything, but neither do the teachers at the local public school. Yet, I am focused on teaching my children to think and to consider different viewpoints. I teach them viewpoints that are not my own. I teach them the difference between facts and theories. I spend a long time studying a topic before I teach my child so I can present him with a variety of perspectives. I am entirely capable to study and present my child varying viewpoints.
And you do not think you will be feeding them a “prepackaged set of ideas/ideals/morals”? Yes, they may have several different teachers, but nearly all discussion of “ideas/ideals/morals” is not allowed in public school, leading to a fairly homogenized answer, after all (that such things are irrelevant, as they cannot even be discussed much).
And, “why should I trust YOU with my child’s mind?” You obviously have some pretty strong biases, yourself, which you are trying to convince us are facts.
And the public school isn’t teaching kids a prepackaged set of ideas?????? Oh come on. That is another joke, right?
Remember, I’ve taught in both public and private schools. There is no wool over my eyes.
And, I can promise you that back in my own childhood I was teased and tormented in public school quite enough to have learned to take it.
If we sound defensive it is because ignorant people who think our children are sheltered and antisocial want to take away our right to give them a better education with a broader base of socialization. We want them to live their lives in the real world instead of an institution, but the rising number of homeschoolers threatens that institution.
So, while you claim that you would never take that right away, that is exactly what articles like yours are designed to do.
“No parent-or teacher-understands all of the world’s phenomenon, facts and perspectives thoroughly enough to say they are the only teacher their child needs.”
Agreed. And the point you are missing in our supposed “defensiveness” is that we, the homeschooling parents, are not our children’s only teachers.
Let me try it this way: I have a BA in Elementary Ed. The state says that I am fully qualified to teach every subject through 8th grade, even though I don’t have so much as a minor in every subject.
Say it’s my first year in my own classroom, but I feel I’m not qualified to teach science or math (for example). My job depends on teaching those subjects anyway, and the principal and other teachers assure me it’s not big deal, so I do my best with the curriculum the committee chose and my nose in the teacher’s manual and hope no one notices I don’t know what I’m talking about until the year is up.
At home, if I feel I’m not qualified to teach a subject, I find a curriculum, an online class, a co-op class or a tutor in those subjects to make sure my students/kids are learning what is difficult for me to model and explain. If they want to learn something I’ve no experience in (like Latin), we find a book and learn it together. If whatever I’ve chosen isn’t working, we look for something else that fits their learning style and their academic needs.
Homeschooling is the ultimate in school accountability. I can’t pass the buck to next year’s teacher–I *am* next year’s teacher. I can’t blame the parent’s poor attitude–I *am* the parent. I can’t justify poor test scores by comparing to the whole neighborhood, or blaming the diverse student population or being an urban district. (I’ve heard all these excuses from teachers and administrators across the country.) I’m accountable to someone even more important than the district or the state department of ed. I’m accountable to my kids. If I don’t prepare them for college and life in the world, that’s my fault. And if that didn’t matter to me, I wouldn’t be homeschooling in the first place.
A few brief points:
First, while it may be true that I (and my wife) cannot teach a broad curriculum as well as a full faculty of specialists, the comparison is of apples to oranges. None of those specialists would spend a single percent as much instructional time one-on-one with my son as we do. I won’t bore you with a catalog of the knowledge and skills my oldest son, whom we pulled from first grade in early March, has acquired since we started homeschooling, but he already knows more about a whole range of subjects than I ever learned in twelve years of public school. Yes, we are teaching him some things we know nothing about, and yes, it works. Next year he starts Latin; I’m looking forward to learning it myself.
Second, school is by no means the only avenue for healthy socialization. My son misses some of his school friends (although he has joined his old class for field trips and returned as a guest reader), but he is on a soccer team and a swim team, and involved in Cub Scouts (not to mention playing outside with the neighborhood kids), all of which has him mixing it up with as diverse a group of kids as he would encounter in school.
Third, the socialization to be had in school is by no means necessarily desirable. A small but unignorable segment of school kids cheat, lie, steal, bully, and tease, and in upper grades do and sell drugs, and engage in sex acts in the bathroom (if not the classroom). You act as if children will learn to cope with social pathologies merely by encountering them in school (have you never read Lord of the Flies?), when it is at least as likely they will adopt them, or at least be inured to them. You ask “who is to say” if my morals are the right ones for my children. Your question was rhetorical, but it has an answer: I am, of course.
Finally, your grammar is atrocious. Even in as casual a forum as a blog, an ENGLISH teacher bloviating on the superiority of public school education to homeschooling should make a point of polishing his writing a bit more than you have done. Also, you persist in engaging strawmen. I’ve seen no evidence here of “frothy passion” in your commenters, much as it may boost your ego to strike the pose of the voice of Reason.
I didn’t have time to read all the respondents last month so I’m indulging this week. This is a veritable feast of information and insight. Ken, yours is an elegantly crafted rebuttal. If you weren’t able to convince Jesse of your intelligence, capability and commitment, I don’t know who can.
Looks like somebody needs to spend some time with Ayn Rand, John Taylor Gatto, and perhaps Emily Post….
Why is the choice “citizen of the world” or “citizen of the home?” Do you seriously think homeschoolers sit in their houses all day?. Every day varies but today we started off our morning at a 7:30 am swim practice, then headed to the dog park. After dropping the dogs back off at home we went to the grocery store and the library. Later after the toddler naps we’ll meet some friends at the playground and after dinner we’ll be out again for piano lessons and math tutoring. If it were Friday it would be our day to do charity work. We’re gone all day volunteering on Fridays. Weekends we are at softball tournaments or swim meets.
If public school is anything like it was when I went there 25 years ago, those kids are sitting in their classroom for 7 or more hours with the same people all day every day like they do year after year for 13 years. And this is being a “citizen of the world?”
I’m enjoying this blog very much. I’d love to know what school is so lucky to have you on the payroll so I can run right over and enroll my kids in your district. Hallelujah! Someone who wants to take responsibility for educating my profoundly gifted, twice-exceptional 1st grader. He’s already mastered (via osmosis) most of the State Standards for our state, but I’m sure you can work in something special for him besides grading papers and tutoring the majority of the class that is still learning CVC-level words. He read Lord of the Rings trilogy in Kindergarten, and loved it… I’m sure your Dr. Suess library will be fine though. As for the 2e… The local school system thought proper placement was with the “Social Skills” class which contained mostly non-verbal autistic kids. What’s your solution to this? Remember, he needs to be learning something new or it isn’t education! Don’t neglect the other 56 kids in your class, either… That’s not fair to them.
My solution was to homeschool. My son is involved with children of all ages, colors, beliefs… He has fun, is relaxed, and is enjoying a very difficult, challenge-filled childhood. I had a retired Harvard professor offer to mentor my child in math, and offered to ask his Yale associate/friend to mentor in Science. Our overscheduled calendar includes activities such as volunteering, private swimming, foreign language with a native speaker, environmental groups, field trips out the proverbial wazoo. We have birthday parties, play groups, overnights *during the week* to out-of-state grandparents… He has had enrichment activities at four different highly selective universities. We are exhausted and broke, but committed to tailoring an appropriate education for him–and for his younger preschool drop-out brother.
When he is tired, he rests. When he is hungry, he eats. When he needs quiet time, he reads in his room. When he wants to play, he is surrounded by kids and adults.
History is littered with amazing success stories of homeschoolers who’ve had terrible experiences in public school. Why is it so undesirable for me to do the right thing by my child? When the local school is unable and/or unwilling, and I am ready to step up to the plate, am I still expected to subject him to the disaster waiting to happen which is public school? My friend’s daughter was bullied by her teacher within the same school system we would attend, and I’m unimpressed by the way it is playing out on the part of the administration. Also noteworthy is that every single group I belong to has former teachers who chose to homeschool *because* they know how badly the system is broken. Many college professors are represented as well, and they bring the further anecdotal evidence of public school kids ill-equipped to succeed in the university environment. They have some great things to say about their homeschooled students, however. Funny how that is supported by various research (plentiful online, so look it up!).
It’s too bad you’re so close minded to the truth. Your previous post illustrating the many ways in which you “found yourself” sound very much like your preferred learning style would have thrived in a homeschool environment. Too bad your parents didn’t love you enough to homeschool–you would have been more open-minded *and* had a jump start to finding yourself.
Gosh, that was mean-spirited and uncalled for–much like your blog, by the way. Ignorant, uninformed, pompous, and full of holes. Of course your parents loved you. You seem like such a kind and gentle sort. What’s not to love?
Dolls? Hardly. That’s what the public schools turn out.
The other responses addressed your hypocrisy and fallacy-filled non-argument well enough, so I will end on that note.
Be well. You need all the help you can get.
Kim, this is *THE* best response I’ve read yet. I laughed out loud! Do you have a blog, because I’d LOVE to read it.
Kim writes: “Someone who wants to take responsibility for educating my profoundly gifted, twice-exceptional 1st grader.”
Honestly, Kim, I’m not sure Jesse ever heard the term, “twice exceptional” before many of us here brought it to his attention. If he has, he has not addressed it, although I’ve raised your question as well. PG 2e. What are you going to do about these kids on the other side of the curve? Are you even going to bother? I’ve asked this question on this blog, haven’t gotten a response. Not even a dialogue.
We have a group of kids whose needs are completely not being met. But we are supposed to keep them in school, regardless. As if it weren’t bad enough that these children’s needs are ignored, many teachers and administrators haven’t even bothered to learn the simplest facts about this population. But it’s still not okay to pull them out. After all, schools sure like the monster test scores these kids produce.
A friend whose son is PG was told by the principal, “what are you complaining about? His test scores are awesome!” Forgetting, of course, that a lot of parents don’t give a hoot about test scores, the tests are not about the children anyway. It’s “No Principal Left Behind.” So what *do* we want? An appropriate education would be nice.
The homeschooling parents who have responded, in general, are not defensive. They are totally amazed at your ignorance. Some you haven’t heard from because they are simply speechless at the way your mind works. BTW, it is fulfilled. Not full-filled.
As my Gramma used to say, “engage your brain before you open your mouth and no one will think you a fool.” The same applies to the keyboard!
Homework! And, you might have listened more carefully to one of Obama’s speeches — “people don’t know how to listen.” You obviously have not “heard” a word that has been said here.
You need to read for content. You have been told six ways from Sunday that the majority of homeschoolers aren’t isolated, that a single parent isn’t the only source that parents use.
That said, and obviously to be ignored, I think another one of Gramma’s little sayings apply here — “goes in one ear and out the other.” I don’t think anything is sticking around long enough for you to learn a thing.
Enjoy wallowing in your ignorance.
I stopped at “Why should I trust you alone with your child’s mind?”
This is an arrogantly asked question, that pre-supposes that you are who I answer to, with regards to why we homeschool. And yet you are curious about defensive answers?
Short answer: Because it’s my child’s mind. Not yours. Not the States. Not my neighbor’s. I do not answer to you. I answer to the same One that you do.
You don’t have to trust me. That’s the beauty of it.
I won’t budge either. Only, I have to compromise because my tax dollars are at work towards the education of the majority of children in my community. I have a direct and vested interest in making sure that their education is working for them.
I see absolutely no connection for you to be thusly concerned about the success or failure of my children becoming “self-actualized” adults.
Surely, if you were to homeschool your own children this goal would be of upmost importance to you and so you would make certain that quality is there, in your own way.
I’m so relieved that I do not have to answer to you. I’m sure you are too. But understand, homeschooling is not going away. And the day may come that we will have our first President who was homeschooled, thereby making policy for you.
Oh wait. That’s already happened. Washington, Lincoln….just as a start.
You are misinformed… There is no way around it. I am a liberal, open minded, humanist. I believe that each person must come to his or her own understanding of the world (an even God). Am I a typical homeschooler? No, but I would argue that there is no typical homeschooler. We are not a homogenous group. Maybe in the past most homeschoolers were Christian fundementalists, but that simply isn’t true now. Additionally, I think it is almost indisputable that the majority of homeschooled children are exposed to a far more diverse population. If my kids went to public school they would spend 6 hours a day in a box with 25+ middle class white kids. Our homeschool group has kids from different races and social classes.
In retrospect you may wish you did know some “geeky” homeschoolers who could have helped you through this “social situation”. You obviously could use a refresher course in structuring a logical argument. We could help you with that as well.
Don’t worry, there are still plenty of fundies doing it.
Nice attempt at backpedaling, but the original post is there in black and white. Own it.
“in the frothy passion of your responses I get hints of the arrogance it takes to believe one is a better teacher than the combined skill of the dozens of trained educators your child would have learned from in schools.”
Dozens of educators who, based on incoming SAT scores for education majors and MENSA’s correlation tables, have an average IQ of 91. Dozens of educators fewer than 30% of whom could pass a basic math test straight out of school. A graduate degree in education isn’t worth an Associate degree in any hard science. All those educators have is a several years of leftist indoctrination.
With every arrogant word you type, you make the case for homeschooling by painting yourself and, by extension, your colleagues, as complete idiots. Go back and read your original post, and ask yourself what grade you would give a student who submitted it in a class on rhetoric.
Why are we so defensive?
Hmmm. I tend to get that way when I’m attacked.
Why am I so defensive?
Because it took a lot of fighting to get where we are today, and I know that if I don’t challenge these ridiculous, verging on the absurd, attacks, we could easily lose our freedom to do what we feel is best for our kids.
Now your turn. Why are you so aggresive, and why do you feel so threatened by homeschoolers?
We decided to home school after we saw how well it worked for my husband’s brother’s family. We had also had some bad experiences with the public school system.
I will say that there are many public school teachers who are dedicated to their work, do an exemplary job, and are worth their weight in gold. However, as with people in other professions, the majority are competent if uninspired. There are a few awful teachers and even fewer stellar ones. It takes only one lousy teacher to undermine years of enthusiastic learning. We learned that the hard way with our eldest son who graduated from public school. If I had it to do over again, I would have intervened when the education “experts” said not to.
I’m not sure where you come from with your comments about homeschoolers not being students of the world. My son, at 14 has had more contact and exposure to multiple world views than most of his peers. As a tennis player, he’s made friends and visited with people from England, Austrailia, South Africa and more. He’s traveled around the U.S. playing tennis and has open invitations to stay with friends in London and Melbourne, Australia. He’s currently planning a month long trip to play tennis in Europe next summer and is doing all his own fundraising to pay for the trip including starting his own lawn care business.
He also gives back to the community on a regular basis and organized his own Relay for Life tennis fundraiser where he raised nearly $800 and coordinated adults and teen players. He’s learned business skills, writing skills, and most importantly how to communicate with adults and people his own age.
I’ve yet to make sense of your comment that only teachers in a classroom can provide those types of experiences.
By the way, I’m also a college professor and work with public schooled students daily. Most of whom start college needing to take remedial math, writing and reading courses because they never learned in public school.
I have spent way too much of my time reading this blog entry and the responses up to this point. I am amazed that the author, having read all the same responses that I have, and most probably the rest that I can’t take the time to read, still hasn’t gotten the point almost every rebuttal has stated.
Homeschooling parents generally do not teach every subject to their child. In fact, I don’t know any homeschooling family that teaches all subjects themselves, and I know hundreds. Even a friend who homeschools through online courses offered by an online school where she is only responsible for grading the coursework still uses a Co-op for Drama.
Get real. We do this because we want the best for our kids, so we get the best teachers we can get for them.
Beyond that, you need to realize that we are creating quality people who will be running our nation, and since this is worldwide, maybe our world. It is in this way that we are improving society, and thus our schools.
There are millions of reasons why we homeschool. I can give a different, honest, reason every time I am asked why we homeschool.
And can you answer one question for me?
How is taking a student out of the already crowded classrooms hurting those who remain? They should be able to get more one on one time with the teacher. Of course, not nearly as much time as the kids sitting at home with mom, in their jammies, being read classic literature in elementary school, but that is what makes us elitists.
Funny, growing up I never would have thought myself possible of being an elitist since I was a lower class kid with both parents working. I guess I really moved up in the world by making this choice for my kids. Thanks!
“Why should I trust you alone with your child’s mind? ”
This is communism at it’s worst. Why should I trust YOU with my child’s mind?
Are you going to be responsible for all of your students in every way? Should we trust you to feed them, clothe them, teach them morals, provide transportation to their events, as well as the many other responsiblities parents obtain the day they become parents? If I can’t be solely responsible for my child’s mind, then I can’t be solely responsible for any part of their lives.
So, do you think the Muslims should allow someone else to teach their children about how their religion is wrong, and women SHOULD be treated equally to men? Do you believe a child of yours should be taken to church by a person like me and told that you are lying and just teaching them one idea, when in fact, there truly is a God, and he loves you and your child very much?
How would you feel if I told you that you cannot be responsible enough on your own to raise your child correctly, and I need to teach them some of my ideas?
I think you would probably think differently.
Because God gave my children to ME! I am responsible for ever part of them and I will give them the very best I can, which means the best schoools, or homeschool, the best home, the best food, the best opportunities I can. I will not allow them to eat junk food all day long, nor will I let them be taught lies by liberal communists until they are old enough to understand it and make their own decisions.
You see, your idea of Christianity is perverted. We don’t force our children into our beliefs, or make them live like we want them to live. That is what is so hard about Christianity. God gives us free will, and we give our children free will. We give them all the information they need to make the right decision, but that’s not always enough.
Other cultures however are not so tolerant. In other countries, religions like Islam will kill a daughter or son for converting to Christianity or another religion, or for living a homosexual lifestyle.
If my child chooses to live as a Buddhist, he will still be welcome in my house, and I will love him just the same, although my heart will break.
So, you are so arrogant as to think you can raise my child better? This is why very soon, we will all be living in a communist country who thinks they can tell me what to do with my family, my home, and my life. Our freedom is slipping away becuase of ideas like yours, and intolerance like yours.
Oh, and my biases are facts. There IS truth in this world, and unfortunately you believe the lies. You may believe the sky is pink, but it will never change the FACT that it is blue. You can believe there is no God, but it will never change the FACT that God exists, created you, and loves you. Look around you, He’ll show Himself to you if you will just look for Him.
Ok, one, sending your children to public school is not sending them to a Muslim country. Two, liberal does not equal communist. Dumbass.
Ok, one, sending your children to public school is not sending them to a Muslim country. Two, liberal does not equal communist. Just because they don’t agree with you doesn’t mean you need to mudsling. Three, no one is trying to raise your child. They’re teaching your child the subjects that they studied in college to teach, and that you most likely didn’t. You’re still responsible for raising them.
“You see, your idea of Christianity is perverted. We don’t force our children into our beliefs, or make them live like we want them to live. That is what is so hard about Christianity. God gives us free will, and we give our children free will. We give them all the information they need to make the right decision, but that’s not always enough.”
You’re absolutely right. For instance, my DAUGHTER, age four-and-a-half, is converting ME to Christianity.
>The poll question for tomorrow: Why are homeschooling parents and students so defensive?
Why do you resort to constant ad hominem attacks? Why are you so incapable of formulating a coherent argument?
Calling children names is unemotional? Claiming that you don’t like something is unemotional?
Sorry, but 95% of the homeschooling posters have used logic and, yes, humor to get their points across. You, on the other hand, keep throwing temper-tantrums.
>Let me make one thing clear first: I value a parent’s right to homeschool their child; it is a choice I would never want to be taken away.
Of course my article was extremely one-sided: It was called “The case against homeschooling.” There is much to be admired about homeschooling, starting with the strength of the parents to make what is, we must admit, an anti-social choice. So cheers on that point, and on the commitment you all have made to your children. Though it may be somewhat misguided in my opinion, your children all (should) know that they are very loved.
That said…
In no way was I trying to convince an existing homeschooler to send their kids to public school. Homeschoolers are a fringe group, and their single-minded dedication to their cause is not going to be dampened by a blog writer. It’s interesting… in the frothy passion of your responses I get hints of the arrogance it takes to believe one is a better teacher than the combined skill of the dozens of trained educators your child would have learned from in schools.
>How can a person possibly believe that?
Want to know why I believe that?
First, the evidence is FIRMLY on my side. SAT/ACT scores, the disproportionate number of homeschoolers who excel at academic competitions and gain academic scholarships, various standardized tests–they all support us. What data do you have? You don’t. Why? You don’t believe that such things as objective truth matter. Your emotional feeling that homeschoolers are “arrogant” is all the evidence you need. And you call yourself a journalist?
Second, I’m not trapped into the institutional view of education that you are. You CANNOT believe this because you don’t understand what education–REAL education–is. You think that it’s sitting in a classroom being spoon-fed information. This is why you are incapable of synthesis or analysis and why you cannot construct a coherent argument, much less maintain one. You have been taught a lot of “stuff,” and you mistake this for education.
Third, I knew more than MOST of my teachers about the subjects that they were teaching back in high school. I’m better educated now that I was then,
>Yes, OF COURSE, you think that you’re giving your child a good education. But you’re also feeding them a pre-packaged set of ideas/ideals/morals. Who is to say that this is the right tv dinner for your child’s soul?
I am. I am the parent. See, that’s what being a parent is about, and that’s what frightens you so much.
You want the pre-packaged set of ideas/ideals/morals to come from YOU. You want to teach them that Christianity is arrogant. You want to teach them that facts don’t matter because there is no truth. YOU want to take them away and brainwash them into identical, unthinking copies of yourself.
>Why should I trust you alone with your child’s mind? You’re passing on your biases as facts!
Who do you think you are, to believe that you have that kind of right over my children? They are MY children! Not YOURS, to take away and brainwash to your will. Can you even HEAR yourself? You hate homeschooling because you disagree with our politics and you think our children should be taken away and indoctrinated with YOUR biases and your “emotional truths” (since you do not have and cannot understand FACTS).
I teach my children, above all, to think, and it is thinking that is destructive to the elaborate, incoherent mental worlds that people like you build. THAT is why you fear me. I have a right over my child because the child is mine. This is not some Huxley dysutopian fantasy world, as you wish it to be.
>My path to finding myself took me to washing dishes in a national park; to studying in Florence; to teaching swimming in Florida; to Brooklyn and San Diego and Cape Town… If my parents had sheltered me through homeschooling, would I have had the confidence to see how my personality fit in all these places?
You are not a thinking individual. You are a poor pastiche of badly-articulated, dead-standard leftist propaganda. You haven’t expressed an original thought once in this entire diatribe. You haven’t constructed any argument. Maybe, if you had been homeschooled, you would be capable of THINKING, for goodness sake, not just regurgitating the things that appeal the most emotionally to you. Then you’d know that none of the “life-shaping” experiences you describe are excluded by homeschooling. And you would have been capable of analytical thought when undergoing those experiences so that you would have become a whole person instead of a sad, broken-down, cobbled-together recording of fractured ideas and phrases uttered by people who impressed your unformed mind.
>Being able to communicate and understand and live and flourish in various environments does.
You can’t do this. You can’t accept people with viewpoints different from your own. You want to take away their children and indoctrinate them with “proper” views.
You are one of the most intolerant people I have ever encountered, and you won’t even see your intolerance.
>You all have made fine, thoughtful points, but on this I will not budge: Homeschooling denies the child the grab bag of viewpoints needed to form a self-actualized adult. No parent-or teacher-understands all of the world’s phenomenon, facts and perspectives thoroughly enough to say they are the only teacher their child needs. That, I will always submit, is a small lunacy.
This is sad but unsurprising. Your emotional response to something you know nothing about has caused you to be incapable of forming any kind of educated viewpoint.
Good job, there, citizen of the world. A few more of you, and we’d be all set, eh?
I believe I’ve come to the conclusion that this must be a joke. It truly cannot be serious.
You, sir, are clearly oblivious to all of these 700-and-something comments. What we say seems to make no difference. Have you ever MET a homeschooler? You obviously have no idea what on earth they’re like and what on earth they do while their un-homeschooled friends are locked in a sterile classroom.
If you won’t listen to all of these fantastic homeschooling parents out there, will you listen to me – one of the “victims” of my “arrogant” parents?
I am *not* fed a “pre-packaged set of ideas/ideals/morals.” I’m deeply insulted that you think that homeschooled children simply swallow whatever their parents give them – and I’m insulted that you accuse my parents of “brainwashing” me. You seem to underestimate homeschoolers criminally.
Different religions and different cultures are my passion – it’s my dream to travel the world as a photojournalist and experience every culture imaginable. My parents never have and never will suppress my dreams for the sake of brainwashing me. Yes, they have taught me that Christianity is the correct view – with ample evidence to back them up, but they have *not* “made” me believe in Christianity, they haven’t tried to limit my knowledge of other beliefs – they haven’t ever done any of the things you accuse them of doing. They merely lovingly directed me in the path that they believed to be right, but I’m completely capable of making decisions on my own. I’m not a robot my parents constructed to respond with text-book answers about God and the answer to life. I’m a living, breathing individual who is sitting here, hearing you call me a “doll” that my one-sided, biased, jailer-like parents are creating.
But what surprises me even more is that you believe that public school is the answer to the “pre-packaged set of ideas/ideals/morals” “problem.” Public school hardly presents every side of an issue. At the Bible study I attend and in my youth group, support and courage in school are always at the top on the prayer request list. I’m constantly hearing about my Christian, un-homeschooled friends getting beaten down for their beliefs, ridiculed by teachers, teased by classmates – tormented in every possible way because they are Christians, not the “main-stream” atheist, evolutionist who believes there’s no right and wrong. Public school is hardly the answer.
All this said – I’ve come to the conclusion that you know nothing about homeschooling. You’ve based your opinion on rumors and stereotypes that have been circulating, but you’ve never done you research, met more than a few homeschoolers or listened to any of the words these homeschooling parents have to say. I pity you – you’re missing out on a large portion of the world’s free-thinkers.
Oh please. “Mainstream atheist.” 78% of American adults self-identify as Christian. “Tormented in every possible way.” Bull. You make it sound like they are being crucified. “Ridiculed by teachers.” Doubt it. Teachers can’t “ridicule” anyone for fear of losing their jobs. If it’s true, and these kids aren’t exaggerating or being attention-mongerers as it seems they are, then have them tell the principal instead of going somewhere where everyone feels sorry for them.
“starting with the strength of the parents to make what is, we must admit, an anti-social choice”
What a riot- since most replies here have debunked the social issues.
You also say that Homeschoolers are a fringe group- I’d hardly call a few million people a fringe group. If it is, it’s growing every year as dissatisfaction with public schools grows.
You keep on with the argument “To be socialized within one’s family does not make an individual socialized. Being able to communicate and understand and live and flourish in various environments does”
You obviously expected replies to your article, so why are you not listening to anyone here? Homeschooled kids are able to socialize, communicate and flourish as well as or in most cases better than kids who have spent their entire childhoods with people their own age.
I find it funny too that people such as Einstein’s mother and Edison’s were arrogant when as kids they were failing in public school for having been labled learning disabled and retarded!
As for finding yourself after highschool? Most of our kids are able to find themselves way before then. One of the “perks” I love about homeschool is that we can go on family trips to different places on “off season” times, where we don’t have to compete with crowds of people who can only go when public school is out. Whether a simple trip to the beach, where we can learn oceanography and marine biology, or a trip to a historical landmark or museums. We are able to show our kids how big the world is by being in it- not being stuck in a overcrowded school all day.
As for citizen of the world? Not all of us are interested in globalization. Not to say that we don’t interact or study other cultures and such, but as for being a legal resident of what I believe to be the most free country in the world- I want my child to know the history of the country he was born in, and to be proud of his heritage, just as globalization proponents allow people of other cultures to be proud of theirs.
Again, you make statements without data to back them up.
Most homeschool parents that I have personally met or read about have NOT been homeschooled themselves; in fact, I’ve only met one who was.
Many homeschool parents I have personally met or read about are previous teachers from the public schools.
My survey group numbers in the hundreds. What is your information based on? You could ask questions here rather than make blind, blanket claims.
You appear to be a teacher without a desire to learn about something you know nothing about.
Many parents hire tutors, form co-ops or send their child to college early (12 is the minimum age in my county).
In your child development classes, you might recall that most of a child’s personality is formed by age 5, so it’s unlikely that will be drastically changed in ages 6-12, no matter which path a child takes and choosing the right path for each child as an individual, be it public, charter, private or home should be the only criteria.
You say “homeschooling…is, we must admit, an anti-social choice” but do you know “anti-social” describes a pathological state of a personality disorder? The anti-social person disrupts and subverts society and its institutions. Such people refuse to follow rules and laws, just not caring to follow them, believing they are above the law. This does describe a lot of the children in the city school here, but I fail to see how that, although when home-schooling, parents do it because they care greatly about their children’s well-being, they would do such things that are against society.
You say, “Would I have become myself, or a doll that my mother and father spent every school day creating?” but what of your self which was created was created largely by peers, because you spent the most time with them. Mine too. We have innate nature too, which everyone retains.
You ask, “Why should I trust you alone with your child’s mind?” Well, I won’t trust you with it. Anyway, is that any business of yours? She is solely the responsibility of my husband and of me.
You ask “homeschooling parents, do you want your children to be citizens of the world, or citizens of your home?” and present a false dilemma. My daughter is a citizen of the United States and will remain so. I certainly would not allow her to become a “citizen” of the world or allow the sovereignty of our country to be otherwise threatened.
You tell me I am “feeding [her] a pre-packaged set of ideas/ideals/morals,” and other people have rightly pointed out how this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black, but still, here, you have assumed I am taking what is given me by someone else, which is not the case. Beginning when my daughter was a small baby, I researched methodologies until understanding there is classical methodology, which has been relatively uniform and successful throughout history, producing our great thinkers, statesmen, scientists, and artists, and that the rest of the methodologies are progressive, generally producing the mess we have now. She will have classical schooling. Then I began to research the components, beginning to discovering the best textbooks and literature from throughout human history. I am reading each one and teaching myself with them to determine the best materials and approach. So really who is the one feeding children this prepackaged set?
Sorry, that should have been “…beginning to discover…”
“Why are homeschooling parents and students so defensive?” Really!?! Sorry, I forgot, you’re a public school teacher. Our desire to defend ourselves violates your zero tolerance policy. When we are attacked we should curl into a ball and under no circumstances fight back.
Well said, Caroline! Thank you.
aaaaahhhhhhhhh, my homeschooling kid is a geek. NOOOOOOO. Truly, there is no worse punishment than being a geek ~ or being labeled a geek because I truly don’t think my kids are geeks but whatever.
And I am not being defensive, I am being redundant by saying
5. As a homeschooler (and a person who attended and graduated from both public school and a state [public] university), public schools kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)
r
Thought provoking post, my thoughts turned into a blog post of my own.
http://spunkyhomeschool.blogspot.com/2009/05/case-against-homeschooling.html
good for you Spunky!
It is easy to just send your kids to school, live your own life, and make the teachers at school be responsible for your kids. I enjoy homeschooling my kids and I get to see them be excited when they learn something new. I think it is just plain lazy if you dont want to take the time out to teach your own kids when there is so much you can teach them. Teachers with degrees think they are better than homeschool teachers just because of a piece of paper. Alot of them are jealous that homeschool moms can do what they can do if not better and want to put us down. Homeschooled kids are smarter because they learn all the time opposed to and arent placed in front of the TV or video game.
And by the way, I am a homeschool mom who is not the least bit defensive. I just enjoy a good debate, you know, geek to geek.
Obviously I’m a geek… I’ve been writing on this blog all Saturday (and it is BEAUTIFUL here in Virginia today.)
Thank you for calling me out.
(I’m going to check out your blog now.)
What I am enjoying most about this vigorous debate is that in a metaphysical way it is a reflection of this topic itself.
Practical education takes sides, perspectives and people. Something incredibly challenging to get in a pedagogical environment with a parent and a child.
To an earlier point about morality and public schooling, social settings are where the rubber meets the road for morality. It is the test. It’s where thou shall not becomes here’s why I shouldn’t do this because of this set of consequences on this set of people. The formal structure of standardized tests, achievement, college pressures makes it difficult to see this in the short term, but one of the most long tail educational imperatives is given students a framework for handling the complicated decisions you’ll have to make as an adult.
LOL!
As if anyone’s critical thinking skills, much less their “moral compass”, can be attributable to the internal tome of …”what I learned in high school”.
Ryan,
And do you really think that homeschooled kids aren’t just as capable of reading and interacting on blogs as public schooled kids are? Or do you really think that as homeschooling parents we don’t challenge our kids’ assumptions by confronting them with different belief systems? Or do you really think that homeschooled parents have their read one book and feel they’ve taught them a given topic? Or do you really think that when Abraham Lincoln read and wrestled with the ideas in books, he didn’t get a good education? Or do you really think that high school teachers in a given public school are such a terribly diverse group of people?
Sorry – the interaction kids need with other people is far easier to come by when they are homeschooled than when they are stuck in a classroom with a bunch of other kids of the same age and socioeconomic status. Most homeschoolers (especially in upper grades) learn by wrestling with the ideas of many – MANY – prominent thinkers, whole books by recognized experts in their fields and original sources. Can you say the same for most public schooled kids – kids whose textbooks are written by committee, whose literature books consist of bits and pieces of this and that author (rather than a whole work), whose history books include only limited amounts of original source material?
Sorry, I don’t buy it.
This isn’t so much of a debate as a debacle. An imbecile playing pinata with a hornet nest couldn’t have provoked a more predictable attack.
After reading the writer’s follow-up comments, I think this may be a bored blogger, baiting home school advocates for the fun of it – kind of a reverse troll, in a way. That would be the best explanation. The alternate possibility – that this really is a public school teacher who believes what she wrote – is less amusing. Either way, this person doesn’t want to be enlightened by people she considers to be her inferiors. It’s a waste of spit, folks! There’s not much to be gained in arguing with an idiot. However, it was pleasantly surprising to see how many well-spoken home schoolers responded. It’s encouraging!
Hey Jesse,
In regards to homeschooling here’s some stuff…turned out longer than i thought-sorry about that!
Homeschooling: great for self-aggrandizing, society-phobic mother…… but not quite so good for the kid.
Here are my top ten reasons why homeschooling parents are doing the wrong thing:
10. “You were totally home schooled” is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm (whether or not the offender was home schooled or not).
10. True- most complementary insult i’ve ever received! Normally however, at least in my case this is in regards to “corruption” and used jokingly, not really an issue. The fact that i didn’t know what exactly a blow job was until college never really affected my ability to socialize.
9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope). It also shouldn’t be where the family gathers to watch American Idol or to play Wii. Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study. In modern society, we call them schools.
9. Bothers me for a few reasons.
• Generalization about the families that are home schooling –thanks image of conservative 50’s mom with the meatloaf— little insulting any parent (or student) that homeschools particularly liberal homesteaders – way to promote sterotypes, how open minded.
• “Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study”
Most families that homeschool have very separate school areas. Both my brother and I had/have our own desks/shelves etc for “school” One difference about “school” at home is that if the way that you learn doesn’t fit into sitting at a desk, there is the option to lay on the floor, pace if need be (the only way i learned lines in play’s as a kid was to walk around), stand up, sit down, be near a person or be completely alone. This is important particularly for kids that have some kind of learning or social disability. I know several instances where parents have decided to take their kid/s out of school and have them learn at home because they don’t believe that pumping them full of medicine is the right way to deal with it. My cousin has ADD and while she learned at a different pace and in different ways than “normal kids” at home, she has turned out a well-adjusted college student.
—Also side note- Homeschoolers are more likely (due to their education/parents etc) to do something other that plop down on the couch and watch American Idol or play Wii. I did this fun thing called read when i was growing up…
8. Homeschooling is selfish. According to this article in USA Today, students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families. To take these (I’m assuming) high achieving students out of our schools is a disservice to our less fortunate public school kids. Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.
8. True but…
• This is a good point and is an inherent problem with education in general. In almost every case the students from wealthy and well-educated families will receive a better education whether they’re in the public school system or not. Within the school system they live in better neighborhoods with better schools, get transferred out of bad neighborhoods to charter schools, get pulled from public schools to go to private schools, to be homeschooled, sent to boarding schools. While this is a very important issue the problem isn’t with homeschooling, its a problem with the distribution of wealth and privilege.
• “Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.”
- I don’t have any experience about this and I don’t doubt its the case.
However, it depends on lots of different factors other than the “richer and higher achieving classmates” which is not always the case. One of my friends grew up in a home adding water to soup but she is an excellent and driven student despite the fact that neither of her parents went to college, and I’m sure you’ve encountered the myriads of un-motivated rich kids at college who are there because daddy said so. Once again, this is an interesting and important issue but you don’t even begin to look at the actual problem.
• The students not being in public school doesn’t affect the schools except that the school’s don’t benefit then from the test scores of these more privileged students. –this is a problem with the way schools are funded. For a school to get money based on test scores only solidifies inequalities between high and low income areas where children start off with an income disadvantage and have a poorer education because the schools (generally-there are some great schools out there) have less money because the students do worse, because they’re low income. I’ll stop with this because I’m assuming I’m preaching to the choir….
• Also- Parents being selfish- well duh. They try and get the best clothing, the best education, food, etc that they are capable of or that they think is important. Human Nature. Doesn’t just apply to these selfish homeschooling parents you talk about. –technical note in terms of money- we still pay taxes for schools even though we don’t use them or any resources-
7. God hates homeschooling. The study, done by the National Center for Education Statistics, notes that the most common reason parents gave as the most important was a desire to provide religious or moral instruction. To the homeschooling Believers out there, didn’t God say “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations”? Didn’t he command, “Ye shall be witnesses unto me”? From my side, to take your faithful children out of schools is to miss an opportunity to spread the grace, power and beauty of the Lord to the common people. (Personally I’m agnostic, but I’m just saying…)
7. mmm why is this a part of an intelligent person’s arguement?
• Oh religion. While that is the most common reason, it is not the only one. I can definitely see you’re point I have indeed met some conservative evengelical homeschoolers that are really quite weird. Also, I know a lot of very close minded homeschoolers who are in for a shock when they get to college(if they don’t get married and start makin’ babies for God first). They’ll be shocked, either find a way to defend what they were taught, or learn and accept. Once again. I also know some very close-minded conservative families who’s children went to public school who did the brainwashing at home afterwards.
• Also- if I were a parent, and as a teacher I would think that you would have noticed, that many of the years that children are in school are extremely formative in terms of the way that children learn to relate to one another, and for no other reason I can see how parents would like to avoid the negative influences that can sometimes happen.
Also if a person’s religion is something they want to instill, or if they have a different moral standard it make’s sense to keep children out of it until they are old enough to rationally think about things for themselves –I know several families(Christian and other) that only homeschooled through junior high for this reason.
So anyways, aside from the facts about reason’s for homeschooling your argument for why they ought to stay in public school isn’t logical even to “those homeschooling believers out here”…
6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that.
But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me, and biology as well as a trained professional, and history… and Spanish… and art… and counsel for college as well as a school’s guidance counselor… and… and…
6. Arrogant to the point of lunacy. Well. How fortunate for you and your students that you are well educated and are good at conveying that information. Unfortunately within the school system(including college) , there are teachers who while they might know a lot about a subject, have gotten their masters 50 years ago, and taught for 40 years, can’t teach. I know of several teachers at the local schools that everyone said they didn’t learn anything from (believe it or not i had public school friends).
• It is definitely true that most parents do not have the qualification to teach their children everything they need to know about every subject. How lucky then that there are people that are qualified and who write books for those who aren’t.
• Also- especially for elementary and junior high education, the subjects being taught—basic things like reading, math, history—don’t require an in depth knowledge of a subject the way that they do in high school or college prep. There is an enormous amount of material and curriculum out there for parents and teachers . In most cases it is not a parent sitting there trying to remember what he/she learned in junior high history and repeating it to the kid.
• Part of homeschooling that was incredibly important for myself and most of my friends was taking classes out of the home. Not every day for 8 hours, but once or twice a week, with a small group often working with someone who IS qualified. We are lucky in this area to have a lot of educated people. I did a weekly writing class with a retired writing professor in the area, we did biology and chemistry with one of our friend’s mother’s who used to teach high school science, French with my mother who is a high school French teacher, theater with the double theater and music major, independent music lessons. There are more and more educated people as time goes on. While it takes effort on the part of the parents to find them and see if they are willing to teach on the side, the education that is received in many ways can be superior because of smaller class sizes and the more adult relationship between the students and teacher.
• That being said. There are things that I was unable to learn because i wasn’t in public school. I missed a fantastic Latin teacher. Most of the college-bound students at the local high school take Latin because the teacher is phenomenal. My dad and I tried to learn Latin for 2 years, didn’t get far. I quit and learned Russian at a local tutoring center instead.
5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)
5. That’s dumb. As a teacher you ought to realize the value of a varied education. but whatever, we can’t control other people’s opinions. I’m a homeschooler(or was), Teachers don’t piss me off. Good teachers in our school system are incredibly important and I wish there were more of them.
4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Unless the student is being homeschooled at the MTV Real World house, there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room. How can a young person learn to appreciate other cultures if he or she doesn’t live among them?
4. Yes Homeschooling Could. Being a member of a religious group could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Growing up in rural WV could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Being a staunch atheist could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Growing up in the ghetto could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Being a member of a union could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Being in the military could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Accepting everything told to you by a teacher could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism.
• Ok. Anytime anyone is in a situation with people who only believe one thing this can happen. Homeschoolers are generally not secluded within their house. Part of homeschooling for many parents is exposing them to things that they would not necessarily even be exposed to in the public school. Where I live there predominantly white people of European decent, most of who came to WV to work in coal mines generations back, the rest were hippy homesteaders who moved here 20 years ago to live in shacks. There are a few mostly Black neighborhoods, but we live right on the edge of the VA,WV border and in the town closest we have a statue of a confederate soldier. It has gotten more diverse recently and there are now more Asian and Latino populations but for the most part its pretty white. But, around here generally, even in the public schools there was probably only one or 2 folks of diverse race/sexuality/background.
• “living among them” –yes I totally agree. No reason to argue here. Being exposed and having the opportunity to befriend people of differing race/sexuality/background is incredibly important in producing an open-minded student however (again thank goodness) school is not the only setting where that can happen. It happens at play grounds, festivals, musical events, while traveling, theater groups, dance classes, many different extra-curriculars. –This is an issue though in places where the minority (whatever that may be) is low income because as I said before, they don’t have the resources to get as good of an education.
• Also you don’t mention age as something diverse. There is an incredible amount of knowledge gained by knowing and being friends with people of all different ages.
3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.
3. See above. How so? “Homeschooling…leaves a child unprepared socially.” …to do what?
• Homeschoolers miss out on the worst of the catty fickle social scene of junior high and high school.
• Homeschoolers miss out on learning to blindly follow authority, they miss out on learning not to question what is in the textbook, they miss out on learning that its not cool to talk to adults and therefore can have an intelligent conversations with people not of their own age before they graduate high school. My brother while he was in school stopped looking people in the eye and wouldn’t even say hello to other adults. The sulky teenager (while some of the conflict that comes with puberty obviously can’t be avoided) can be because students never relate to anyone (other than their parents maybe) as the absolute authority. This allows them to learn how to think for themselves earlier- Thinking=good
• I firmly disagree and would argue public schooling leaves a child unprepared socially- how is it “prepared” when most junior high-highschoolers won’t even look adults in the eye or talk to them? In my experience my peers didn’t begin relating to the world like real people until college.
• —the authority issue is one that is very important. Not to sound like some sort of crack-pot conspiracy theorist but the way public school system works right now is an excellent way to subconsciously teach people to not question authority and “fall in line” and do what everyone does. This is the result thoughout. kids with ADD get medicine so that they act “normal”. Be a good sheep for 12 years so after college when you make it to the business world you work up the ladder, suck up to your boss, work very hard, but don’t question.
Obviously this is not the case with every school and definitely not the case with every teacher. The teachers i know don’t teach for the purpose of training sheep. But, the way the system is set up it is inevitable because to have control of a classroom (or government) the teacher either has to win respect (democracy) or suppress the opposition (tyranny). My mom and I have had numerous conversations about this in regards to different classes she has sometimes. Some she’s the dictator. Some she’s imparting knowledge. However, with larger class sizes and the diverse ways/and stages of learning more often than not it is necessary to be the dictator if only because of one or 2 kids that can’t pull it together.
2. Homeschooling parents are arrogant, Part 2. According to Henry Cate, who runs the Why Homeschool blog, many highly educated, high-income parents are “probably people who are a little bit more comfortable in taking risks” in choosing a college or line of work. “The attributes that facilitate that might also facilitate them being more comfortable with home-schooling.”
More comfortable taking risks with their child’s education? Gamble on, I don’t know, the Superbowl, not your child’s future.
2. “Attributes that might also facilitate them being more comfortable with home-schooling”
Yes…
Gambling? I would say not. I don’t want to repeat myself but no offense, most people if they’ve taken the time to consider homeschooling their kids, have thought about it a fair amount and probably have a lot more invested in terms of research, finding good curriculums, finding good tutors/teachers, taking the time to take kids to extra-curriculars. To call it a gamble makes no sense. And in terms of the children succeeding? (conservative evangelicals with shotguns and 5 years of food in their basements excepting) most of the homeschoolers I’ve come in contact with have done remarkably well. All the colleges I applied to were excited that i was homeschooled and aside from having to take the SAT and the ACT (as i didn’t have a GPA to give them) They were fairly anxious to have me.
Something education at home does is establish personal responsibility for your own education much earlier on. Throughout high school I basically did less intense college work. I’d have stuff that I had to work on by a certain time and it was mostly up to me to make sure it happened. My folks of course kept tabs and it was something that i was not capable of doing in elementary/junior high but I was basically doing the same stuff i did freshman year of college the last few years of “high school”
Parents are only “gambling” if they are unschooling (terrible idea by the way-no your 2nd grader doesn’t know what he/she wants to learn) or if they hand their kids over to someone else without questioning what their children are being taught. Saying that the parents are risking their childrens’ futures is absurd
1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky.
1. Thanks- once again I enjoy being stereotyped- its a very good reason to bring up.
—also though i have met some very strange homeschoolers… But what is strange? Strange because they don’t watch MTV (or even have cable?) or don’t read and love twilight just cause all the other 13 year old girls do and instead reads Jane Austin? For arguing that homeschoolers are close-minded you weaken you’re entire piece by being rather blatantly close-minded yourself.
Ok. Sorry to respond with an epistle but you asked :b- few more things.
• -There are all these studies about how stressed people are these days etc. Lots of high-schoolers who have no time because they spend the whole day in school and then have extra-curricular activities etc till late, then do homework, sleep 6 hrs, repeat.
I know a lot of homeschoolers who were able to pursue hobbies, professions(one of my friends 2 years younger is now a wooden boat-maker), music and art in a much more thorough way than they would of if they’d been in school because the amount of time wasted in school can be huge.
• My friend is absurdly intelligent. He literally thinks all the time. Anyways. He had problems in school because he was smart and always did well and the school didn’t have anything more accelerated for him to do, so the last few years of high school he got bored and just smoked pot, drank, and partied, and got good grades. Was it a good use of his time to sit in school bored all day? Was it good for him overall? –he turned out ok hah-on that note he just recently started getting migraines and the doctor told him he’s probably starting to get them now because he just stopped smoking haha. But anyways..
• Also my friend Fiona is a professional violin player, she’s half-way through her masters at CIM (Cleveland Institute of Music) she practiced between 4-6 hours every day in high school- something that wouldn’t have been possible if she’d been in public school. In fact the reason she was home schooled was so that she could pursue her music. And it paid off she got scholarships to CIM and that’s what she’s doing now. –the same thing happened to me on a much smaller scale in that I was able (because of having more time cause i was homeschooled) to practice 4 hours everyday the year leading up to college auditions and was able to go to a decent liberal arts school thanks to scholarships instead of the huge state school (not that that’s not a good option).
• Having been homeschooled I feel that i had an extremely well-rounded education. It allowed me to travel all over the country with my dad on business trips. Real-life things can become school projects. It allows more flexibility for what students are interested. One year I was really interested in the mythology from the British Isles and Scandinavia and so my dad helped me find some books and info on the subject and I did a semester of concentrated study on it. I’ve had lots of good friends of all different ages. I never felt that because someone was in a different grade I couldn’t talk to them or something. Many homeschoolers are strange only in that they are more mature for their age than people think they should be—mature in the sense of the way they communicate not necessarily their worldliness. (me being a huge case in point…hah)
Well there’s that.
Maybe I’ve convinced you and maybe not. More likely you encountered some crazy home school mom and have a permanent grudge but its worth a shot!
Take care ☺
-Annie
Oops real quick…reading a response you gave on your website– Even though I’m a teacher, I don’t believe that education (or test scores) is the most important thing in a person’s life. Feeling full-filled, and finding oneself, are far more important. My path to finding myself took me to washing dishes in a national park; to studying in Florence; to teaching swimming in Florida; to Brooklyn and San Diego and Cape Town… If my parents had sheltered me through homeschooling, would I have had the confidence to see how my personality fit in all these places? Would I have become myself, or a doll that my mother and father spent every school day creating?
mmm…i spent 3 months in Europe right after college, just spent 4 months working in Ireland, traveled all over, I went to France with my mom when i was 12, I havn’t had as much time. Been in 46 states…and last i checked i’m a far cry from a doll my folks created. There is this funny thing that happens around puberty where your parents realize they’ve taught you and now its up to you to make your decisions. I know more people in school (college) who are dummy’s of their parents still and haven’t realized it yet.
Ok sorry. Yup we do get defensive-you can’t say you’re making the case for or against something if you don’t know anything about it!
P.S.
“Maybe unworldly or uncultured, though, sure. Unsocialized? Definitely. To be socialized within one’s family does not make an individual socialized.”
Uncultured? Hardly. I think you have a misconception that homeschoolers don’t ever leave their home! There is much much more than that. In many ways homeschooled children are more “cultured” than many in public school because they are exposed to more than just what is approved by the Board of Education.
Also, in terms of open mindedness what about banned books in public schools?
http://www.aclu.org/freespeech/censorship/11416res20030919.html
Just a few:
Huckleberry Finn-Mark Twain
I Know Why the Caged Bird Sings-Maya Angelou. Reason: Rape scene, “anti-white”
Of Mice and Men-John Steinbeck.
Reason: Profanity
The Catcher in the Rye-J.D. Salinger
One Hundred Years of Solitude-Gabriel Garcia Marquez
Annie:
While I appreciate your thoughts on this absurd blog post and the time you took to convey them to Jessie, I do take umbrage with one of your points. You say, “Parents are only “gambling” if they are unschooling (terrible idea by the way-no your 2nd grader doesn’t know what he/she wants to learn).” I’d suggest that your opinion of unschooling is based as much on a stereotype as Jessie’s opinions regarding homeschooling are.
Yes, a 2nd grader most certainly knows what they want to learn! Even an infant knows what s/he wants to learn, even if s/he is not cognizant of it. Though the unschooling process looks very different from traditional learning, it is equally effective and almost always is more so! Please remember to make your points without copying the irresponsible methods of the original author: know your subject before deciding to condemn it.
Yawn. An ignorant, prejudice-filled rant about homeschooling by someone who presumes to speak as an authority even though she hasn’t got a clue about home education. Nothing to see here, folks.
This is, perhaps, the most concise and accurate reply. I think it just about covers everything.
Jesse — Some points I haven’t seen made above:
1) The “wealthy” parents cited in the USA Today piece make over $50K a year. For a family of 4 or more, this is NOT a lot of money. In some parts of the country, you could not live a middle-class life on that income.
2) The homeschooling kids I know, including my own, are wonderful people and very comfortable with adults and other kids. The teasing and bullying that goes on in school doesn’t help people develop healthy social skills. And believe it or not, outside of school teasing and bullying is not how most people interact. (You should get out more!)
3) The people you deride as “geeks” are going to be the same people regardless of whether they attend public school or not. And if I don’t believe bullying is a positive experience, why should I subject my kids to it? I find it incredible that college kids are still calling each other names. It says something about how immature young adults are today.
4) In my experience public school kids segregate themselves pretty rigidly, when they’re not being separated out by ability (read: income and background). Homeschoolers live in the real world, not the artificial environment of schools.
5) Why can’t learning take place over a box of cereal? If school was such a great place to focus, there wouldn’t be so many kids on Ritalin.
Ummm…Geek?
In my experience:
Geek=Employer
“self-aggrandizing, society-phobic mother”
I love irony.
“two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?”
and
” And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.”
Funny!
Hey, I also like the way you baited homeschoolers into responding to you by using the lame tired old arguments that have been regurgitated many times over, and then “jessica” asked them if they’re interested in writing for this web site. I like the “good cop”/”bad cop” theme – it never gets old to me!
I apologize for calling you “jessica” – I don’t have my glasses on!
To all the anti-homeschoolers on here, especially the author of this article….
It sounds like you guys don’t even know WHAT homeschooling is. I’m not even a homeschooling mom, and I KNOW! As I’m reading/skimming some of your posts, I feel like yelling out “WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!”.
I have a feeling some of these shallow comments are coming from the “idea” that homeschooling is sitting around a table in isolation with your mommy, practicing flash cards that mommy made up, never seeing anyone, never going anywhere. Wake up and look around. There are so many learning opportunities outside of the public school that one could literally be “homeschooled” 24/7 OUTSIDE of the home.
All you homeschooling nay-sayers, do you realize that homeschooling includes online classes, separate brick & mortar institutions, library programs, and even community college and university classes?!?! It is very possible, and VERY PROBABLE that the child is NEVER at home, or the parents aren’t the child’s primary teacher. The role of the teacher and parent are to GUIDE the student and teach them to be independent thinkers and learners. That saying is on posters hung on every school I’ve ever visited.
I think a lot of the anti-homeschoolers need to take a look at what the true definition and reality of homeschooling is because from this group of people here, I’m getting the feeling that most don’t even know what it is.
I meant to mention also–pre-packaged curriculum programs which are, the same, if not better, than the ones that schools provide. If you want a “school duplicate” homeschooling experience, you can get one with those programs.
If you want a real life experience, you can get one by personalizing your own program with a mix and match deal. You can even “unschool”, but I’m not going there because it would confuse too many of you.
All these options, as well as “daily routine” journals, etc are available in bookstores and libraries. In case you haven’t visited recently, the homeschool and self-self education section has been growing for some time now. There are even many magazines.
Get out of your public school chair, expand your horizons, think outside the box, and get into the REAL world and learn what’s available these days! I’m sure you’ll be blown away!
P.S. Don’t ever confuse “defensive” with “passionate”. BIG DIFFERENCE!
This is the funniest thing I have heard all week. I almost fell out my chair laughing at this. Yet, I was saddened at thought a person who claims such high degrees spews such ignorance, unfounded claims, hatred and reliance on stereotypes.
10) It may be an insult to be called a homeschooler (I’ve never actually heard this and I work with teens at church). When I went to school, it was an insult to be called a geek or a nerd. As an adult, it’s the geeks and the nerds are the ones making the high salaries. However, years before I knew homeschooling existed, people were insulted by referencing their “fine, public education” and the phrases “good enough for government” and how about “those who can do, those who can’t teach.”
9) Personally, I didn’t find that a classroom filled with 25 very loud kids, some actually standing on desks cursing the teacher, others knocking over bookcases and having temper tantrums that led to whole classrooms being evacuated was an effective place of study for my children. I also don’t think that switching classrooms every 50 minutes, sitting doing busy work because you are faster than the others, having to stop something you like because the bell rang, being distracted by the cute girl or boy sitting near you, being bullied, dealing with lock downs, gang fights, and the myriad of other things that go on in government schools are very learning focused either. I also don’t think learning should be restricted to the classroom. Most of us grow up and leave the classroom environment one day and need to know how to handle the real world. We are out in it constantly. We have learned a lot shadowing naturalists and other professionals in their jobs, as well as attending lectures at the local university and museums. They don’t need to do worksheets on money problems because they are out at real grocery stores weekly, comparing prices, working with coupons, and comparing ads.
8. If you feel that I am selfish that is your perogative. Isn’t just as selfish to want my kids to stay in a school to benefit others when it’s detrimental to them? Isn’t it selfish for you to hate homeschoolers because it threatens your job? For the record, my kids were in a magnet school district that was 60-70% low income children. After 5 years, I never witnessed one child improve by my children’s presence (or from any other factor either). Instead I witnessed the academic and moral decline of many.
7. I don’t recall there being public schools in the Bible? By the way, while religion may be the most common “most important reason” given by homeschooling parents but it was still only 36%. Since you are merely an English teacher and not a math professor, I will help you out: 64% have another “most important reason”. Most homeschoolers I know have a myriad of reasons and I don’t know a single family who homeschools for strictly religious reasons.
6. I am ignorant? I have to laugh. I went to government school and graduated with honors. Therefore, I should have been taught what I needed to know by grade 12. Yet, teachers feel they teach so poorly that I can’t pass on that knowledge to my children. However, despite all the professionals teaching (most without any actual experiencein a non-educational field), kids are going through school not knowing how to do basics. I speak multiple languages and am a trained geopolitical analyst. I have spoken in front of two Presidents, dozens heads of states, and more generals and admirals that I can count. I had to teach Marines, most taught in government schools and some with college degrees, basic history and geography so that they could be efficient in their jobs. I don’t have a degree in English but I have written professionally and I did manage to teach both of my kids how to read well enough that my 8 yo is reading Pilgrim’s Progress in Old English. I am not a biologist but my kids have learned to identify over 50 birds by site and many by bird song, type of nest, type of egg, silhouette, etc. participated in bird research projects through Cornell University, taken classes and nature walks with naturalist at various parks, museums, and eco-stations, raised baby chickens, worked with wildlife rehabilitators, etc. I don’t know any children in government school who get this specialized training in birds.Most of the homeschooling materials that I have used were written by professionals with doctorate degress who are quick to respond to emails when you have a question. My immediate circle of friends includes: two women with degrees in immunology, a vet tech, a person with advanced degrees in math and stats from MIT, IT professionals, pyschologists and a psychiatrist, college professors and former teachers, nurses, etc. Most of whom homeschool and help teach co-op classes. I may not know everything but I am smart enough to seek out those who know what I don’t. Furthermore, grade school teachers are no subject matter experts in any area. I looked over the requirements for grade school education. It’s mostly how to teach large, diverse groups of kids which I am not doing. I don’t need to know how teach multiple kids. I need to know how to teach my kids. One of the reasons we homeschool is that that the teachers at our previous school could not handle my son’s special needs. I gave books hat went read, I offered conferences that went unattended. I have read everybook that I can find on his needs, talked to actual experts and parents of similar children. Yet, I am supposed to leave my child with a “professional teacher” who doesn’t even know what Sensory Integration Disorder is, much less how to handle it in the classroom. I can pick curriculum and methods that fit my children instead of forcing my children to fit the curriculum. Anyway, I think the question is do you think you can teach English as well as I?
5) This reasons sounds like a personal problem to me.
4) Yes, it could. I found that the government school we attended bred racism. Despite that the school was majority black, the only history taught in grades K-3 was black history and it was very poorly taught at that. My son had one teacher that would only read stories that featured African Americans. The only whole thing the whole school worked on was an annual black history program. At this program, we would be asked to stand for the black national anthem. When a child sang the national anthem for talent show, nobody was asked to stand (in fact, I was only one who stood and I teachers coming up and asking me questions in the middle of the performance!). The school had awards for best minority student. When kids asked why they only studied/read black history they were told because “blacks are a great race.” At this school, there was poor blacks (almost all who were failing and amost all were discipline problems), middle class whites (almost all labeled AG), and Hispanic immigrants (all ESL) and two Asians (only ones allowed to grade skip or subject accelerate). There was no rich blacks, poor whites, academically average Asian, etc. There was not much intermingling. Now at home, yes we are “white”. We are a blended family (Yankee Italian dad/IrishSouthern Belle mom). Our neighborhood is 50% non-white. Our homeschooled friends include black, Asian, Hispanic, Arabic, and Jewish. We have homeschool friends with many different special needs, such as Autism,Aspergers, Deafness, Muteness, Down’s Syndrome, etc. In fact, my one of my own children is special needs and my non-special needs child volunteers once a month to be a peer to special needs kids. We know homeschooling families who are very wealthy to point of our eyes bulging when we go to their house and friends who are very poor and barely making it and depend on our good will at times. I am conservative Protestant Christian, but we interact with families that so conservative, I feel like a hippie and others that are so liberal that I feel like a fundamentalist. We study other religions -last week we made mandalas and discussed the Dalai Lama. Our materials are living books from various authors who hold various viewpoints, some of which differ from my own. Reading, research, analysis and debate are major factors in my teaching style.
3. What socialization are they learning in school? How to be a good friend or how to be a bully? How to follow directions enough to get by or how to be self-directed? How to stand in line or how to run a business and a household? How to walk on the third tile or how to lead a hike? How to sit for silent lunch or how to cook meals and take to families who in crises and work with Meals on Wheels? How to interact with 20 or more same age kids or how to interact with groups that include teens, adults, babies, toddlers, elderly etc? My kids have deep friendships instead only superficial ones (though they still have superficial ones in some of their activities). They know how to sit still in a lecture, ask appropriate questions, etc. They know how to include the shy child and avoid the obnoxious one. I am not sure what social skill needs 13 years of practice in a public school atmosphere? Sex? Drugs? Bullies? Profanity? Gang Fights? School Shootings? Lockdowns?
2. Personally, I don’t consider homeschool a “risk.” I consider government schools a higher risk. In fact, my selfishness to not take that gamble rendered me selfish in point 8. Regardless, the article doesn’t say that homeschooling is a risk. It points out that many homeschoolers are risk takers. They are the movers and shakers, the innovators. They are not afraid to go against the norm and don’t feel they should accept mediocrity because that is “the way it is”. These “highly educated, high income parents” that now make up the majority are the ones who are changing the face of homeschooling.
1) I knew geeks in high school. The sheltered ones, the socially inept ones, etc. You know the ones that nowadays end up going on shooting sprees after years of bullying. Apparantly government school failed to properly socialize them. Ditto all the criminals in our jails. Most of the geeky, homeschool kids I know would be just as geeky in school. Perhaps, like my son, they are homeschooled because they are geeky and not geeky because they are homeschooled. My son has Aspergers, ADHD, and sensory issues. He’s made more progress in our year of homeschooling than in his first three years combined. He went from zero friends to four friends (two are homeschooled and two are not. His best friend is a nonreligious black female w/ no special needs, with a single mom, that goes to a public charter school. How much more diverse can you get?). He has a penpal that he occasionally chats with (biracial lol). Now, my daughter is not geeky in the least. She was popular in school and is popular out of school. She is invited to sleepovers, parties, playdates on a constant basis. She is a nationally competive cheerleader (and is a minority racewise what it is worth), an award winning writer, involved in the community, politically aware nine year old girl who has more friends that I can track. She is still just like your average preteen girl -goes to sleepovers, hangs out with her friends on the trampoline, talks on the phone and emails with her friends, owns webkins, shops at Justice for girls, knows everything about the Jonas Brothers, Hannah Montana and all the other Disney idols. While in school, she was popular but very peer oriented and constantly worried about fitting in (she had some ostracization moments since she was only 4th grade girl without a boyfriend -she had options just we are the old-fashioned, over-sheltering type of parents that don’t believe that 9 yo girls need to go on dates). She was very much afraid to be her own person. Since homeschooling her, I feel like I am witnessing a butterfly emerge from a cocoon.
Mr. Scaccia:
I’d like to point out before I begin, that I’m a former homeschooled teenager.
My mother is not society-phobic. In fact, my mother wasn’t even the parent that homeschooled me, and currently homeschools my two younger siblings.
I was homeschooled for four years by my father, and it has turned out the be the absolutely best thing I have ever done in the way of education. I learned so much in those four years than I ever did in my years of public schooling.
On a side note, my father continues to homeschool my siblings today.
10. Oh wow, because that’s entirely insulting. Just because someone was homeschooled makes it an insult. So what if you’re considered an outsider? Almost everyone is in one way or another. This point doesn’t make a plausible argument.
9. …You’re really in tune with families that homeschool, aren’t you? Many homeschoolers don’t even WATCH television or play Wii. My family doesn’t own any gaming device whatsoever. And public school definitely isn’t learning focused. It’s more focused on conforming the minds of children to meet government and school district standards and socializing with their friends.
8. Wealthy and well educated? My family may not be poor, but we are in NO WAY wealthy. I’m a normal middle-class child here, thanks. Well educated on the other hand, not all of homeschooling parents are well educated and still do an excellent job.
On another note, one thing that just sends me over the edge is how intelligent students either have to downplay their skills in the classroom, get ridiculed because of their intelligence or they’re copied off of in the class. I know this experience, because I’m one of those students. People in school always look towards me as someone to copy from because I get good grades. These “less fortunate public school kids” need to learn how to think for themselves and actually LEARN FOR THEMSELVES. Don’t depend on intelligent student.
And in what way is it a disservice!? This entire point is illogical.
7.How do you have a right to say this? GOD hates homeschooling?
Yes, the Bible does indeed say to make disciples of all nations, but it is also in the Bible that PARENTS are supposed to educate their children, not push them off onto other adults. Homeschooled children have an even GREATER ability to spread their faith than public school children. They don’t have to be in a certain place for eight hours a day, then go home to tend to homework. Homeschooled children have the ability to leave their home at any time and witness through their actions in public.
6. I’ll give you that point. Many parents don’t have a degree necessary to teach in a public school, but they still do an amazing job at educating their children! As I’ve said before, my father taught me so much in just four years of homeschooling, and he doesn’t have a degree in anything related to education. Parents are the best teachers and the best counselors.
5. As a former homeschooler, anyone that knocks homeschoolers and their families pisses me off. That’s good enough for a retort to this point.
4. I am in no way whatsoever a racist or intolerant of any background or sexuality. I may have beliefs about sexuality that regard to my religion, but I’m not intolerant of people that are gay, bisexual or any other thing in between. I have atheist friends, agnostic friends, black friends, Indian friends, friends of totally different religions (Hindu, Mormonism, Catholicism, etc.) and I even have gay friends. I also have friends of both genders, from a huge range of ages, from elementary/middle school to college graduates. You name it, I probably have friends that fit your descriptions.
Now if I was racist or intolerant, would I have friends from across the spectrum? No. I’d have only white, rich, Christian bigot friends. At least, that’s the kind of friends I would have according to your comments here… But personally, I’d dislike having friends like that.
3. I completely disagree with your point here. Socialization is NOT a “grand multi-cultural experiment.” Homeschooling does, in no way, leave the child unprepared socially. It’s not like the parents lock the child inside the house and they never see sunlight. As I mentioned before, the flexibility of homeschooling actually allows the child more free time and freedom to leave whenever they or the parent wishes, thus letting them meet people they usually wouldn’t meet if locked inside a public school for 8 hours a day.
2. Notice the word PROBABLY in this man’s sentence. Last time I checked, probably doesn’t mean “all the time.” My parents thought for YEARS before pulling me out of public school, they’re definitely NOT risk takers with my education. And they’re also not arrogant.
1. Throughout this entire post, I’ve been able to see your side of the argument, and believe me, I still am. Some children are, I will admit, slightly “geeky,” but that’s not because of lack of socialization. Most of those “geeky” children have mental disabilities or other handicaps, from the ones I’ve personally met or seen interviewed on TV.
But, I’m not a geek. I have the ability to communicate in diverse social situations, whether it’s with my friends at school or with adults at other functions.
I’d like to thank you for your time. I was not trying to sound rude or condescending in any comment I’ve made. If I came across as offensive, I sincerely do apologize. Again, thank you so much for your time.
I respectfully disagree http://nfahm.blogspot.com/2009/05/answer-to-case-against-homeschooling.html
Andrea,
I loved your responses. Awesome!
As an educator (with advanced degrees in both English and Education), and a homeschooling father, I don’t necessarily want to give your post too much ethos by refuting it point by point- as Musafer Sherif’s Social Judgement Theory would attest there would be no real value in it anyway. But, I would like to say that the angle you take concerning the “selfishness” of homeschooling families is actually based on a logical fallacy- we only need to look both qualitatively and quantitatively at the ideas of W.E.B. Dubois and his visions of a “talented tenth” compared to the 10% college admissions policies of the state of Texas to see that the standardized educational system is the real selfish standard.
Simply put, if you are going to claim that homeschooling as a system is selfish because it doesn’t adhere to your utilitarian philosophical viewings of the purpose of education, then you may want to show your audience that the education you’ve gained from the public system you’ve attended actually made you into a critical thinking being…
And, yes, I get irony and sarcasm- do you?
Beautiful!!! I love it! I noticed that Jesse chose not to respond to your post. I guess he didn’t want to bring his “knife” to your “gun” fight. You are obviously much more educated than he is.
What would you do with an eight year old who is AT LEAST three years ahead of his peers accademically? And, that’s a conservative estimate.
Said child also lives in a school system with no budget or programs for gifted children and will not advance him grades…”he needs to be with his peers”. Said child just “completed” second grade (by his age) and ASKED to take Physics this summer because, “math plus physics equals astronomy”.
Oh, said child is also very personable, verbal, well-liked, plays rec basketball, and is an “All-Star” baseball player three years running, and performs in a local theatre where he is exposed to various “sexualities”.
So, what would you do?
I feel for you Lynn. I have 2 just like that. Homeschooling is the ONLY answer for children like that. I’ve visited dozens of schools, and every single one of them told me that they cannot accommodate my children. Jesse, did you hear that? What was your point #6 that said that schools are better equipped to teach because they are experts?! You forgot to mention “experts…who can only teach to the average.” What I decided to do for my children is put them in school part-time for the regular classes (PE, health, etc), and they take the “real” classes online and at home. It’s far from perfect, because they are still bored in the school classes and it’s very time-consuming. You might want to look into the Davison Institute in Reno, NV.
What intrigues me is just how many of these homeschooling moms have children too precious, advanced and special for regular schooling – at least according the moms.
I do, but not because, I (the mom) says so, but because the school says so, as well as his scores and grades. When you have a 12 year old who walks into an ACT test and scores a 28, with no prepping, studying or practicing, and at 13 years old is doing high level calculus, most schools are going to say the same to you too. “We cannot accommodate him.”
When that middle-schooler is doing more advanced work and thinking than the highest high school students and classes, don’t you think “regular schooling” is a joke for him?? Or do you think he should just stay in 8th grade, work on adding and subtracting fractions, just for the sake of it, in order to blend in?
Or how about the upper elem age student who is doing trigonometry, scoring high school grade equivalency on ALL subjects across the board in school administered standardized tests. YES, I think they are “too precious, advanced and special for regular schooling”. Do you disagree? Can your child do that?
Does your child play baseball? Do you go to the batting cages with him?? If so, why? Do you think he’s too advanced to just be satisfied with the school PE program??? Why are you homeschooling him in sports?? And I’m sure you’re one of those parents who sees no hypocracy in putting your child in community select sports teams, or playing on teams OUTSIDE of the school because you don’t think school PE is adequate enough. Why is it ok to challenge your child in sports, but not in academics? Because he’s going to have a career in sports and couldn’t possibly have a need for academics?
Your analogy does not work. My kids played sports outside of school but they were involved in school sports as well. Your child is completely out of school academically. Also, you seem to insinuate that because a child is in school the parents don’t or can’t challenge her academically at home.
Yeah. So my kid should sit in government daycare for six hours a day and THEN have to actually have real school?
I thought about that. Then I thought, “Hey, why not skip the daycare altogether?”
While your kid is standing in line, mine’s on the swingset. While your kid is coloring his math sheet (got to keep those fast kids busy and out of trouble somehow!), mine is in the sandbox. And while yours is on the bus, mine’s playing with his Snap Circuit set.
I find it interesting that you don’t understand just why that is, Gary!
Which came first? Do the parents simply think that their “special snowflakes” are just too good for the schools, or were the schools not up to the challenge of teaching children who are 3+ years grade-advanced, hence the mass exodus of these kids from an inadequate public school system?
My child belongs to this group. There is current research, by several Instututes
(Davidson, Belin Blank) studying these kids, suggesting that the schools are, at best, Ill-equipped to take on children such as these. There are also no curret plans on the part of the system to rectify the situation. Private schools are a bit better, but still lack teh vision necissary to meet these “challenging ” children.
There is no fabled “average” child. That is a construct which makes it easier for schools and their administrators to blow off genuine parental concern for the education of thier children.
This entire article is genuinely laughable. Never before have I seen such a childish and ill-concieved argument against Homeschooling. I think the motivational factors for this article are fear, prejudice, anger and jealousy.
The fear that homeschooling parents could do very well without teachers is eating this person alive, clearly.
The prejudice against homeschoolers seems to be motivated by this person’s ignorance of the subject, as evidenced by citing a “USA Today” article for evidence.
This person is clearly angry that all of his/her degrees are not enough to earn the respect “deserved” on this subject. ( Note that our culture, partially steered by that same culture he/she advocates as being desireable in the public school setting, has the same distate for “folks with too many degrees”–I know of no such prejudice in the Homeschool Setting. I think I’ll keep my child right where she is, thanks.)
It is also apparent that the author is wonderfully jealous of the ability and freedom that homeschooling parents have to build an optimal program, individualized to each student. Is that not every teacher’s dream? I must say, it has been exteremely exciting and a barrel of fun to teach my daughter, who readily grasps subject material as if she were eating a bag of M& M’s!
Actually, Wouldn’t the school setting be wonderful if folks like this author would help make it so, rather than defending a washed-up system, steeped in bureaucracy, meritocracy and ageism?
I appeal to, nay CHALLENGE , the author of this rant, to look your beloved schools and change them from within, rather than casting aspersions at those who would dare to make their own world a better place.
Well, to be honest, I don’t know of any other 5 year olds who were reading The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe, by themselves, for fun, and commenting on the symbolism involved (and only 1 of mine did this), but perhaps you are right, and I am only a biased mom who has no clue what most kids are doing.
Maybe I should also be glad–I probably also don’t know enough to say that this same child’s writing skills were 2 years behind, so that was probably not true, either.
Or perhaps I should be glad that I DO know these things, so that I could help her to continue to grow in reading, and make up what she was lacking in writing, rather than forcing her to read Dick and Jane in kindergarten, because that’s what “all” 5yos need, and write a few paragraphs by 3nd grade, because that’s what all 8yos should be able to do.
I think this combination of advanced and behind skills would be hard for any teacher to deal with. I suspect most kids have areas they could be far ahead of the norm in, and others they struggle with and would benefit from extra time and help in, if they were in a situation where that could occur.
(For the record, at the end of 7th grade, she reads widely and aggressively, and about the middle of 6th grade, she finally picked her writing skills up to a “normal” level.)
LOL ! Good on her:) Mine read similar at a similar age, but would not have picked up on the symbolism in LWW, given that we are Atheists! The point, however, is that your little girl should not be forced to read “Dick and Jane” by a bunch of Administrators who met in a committee. How silly and sad it is that the notion would even be on the table in the first place, given her ability level.
Yup. My kids are too precious to send to government funded daycare 7 hours a day. Plus I am not going to trust strangers with my food allergic/asthmatic child.
We are all different and we all have different reasons for homeschooling. I think it’s safe to say that homeschooling families like to think outside the box, instead of putting our kids in the box.
Gary,
I can’t believe how ignorant your argument sounds. Do you honestly believe that my 12-year-old 7th grader who just completed Algebra I and is halfway through high school biology, who scored in the 99th percentile across the board on the 8th-grade Iowa test (taken a year early), whose high school counselor in our one-day-a-week homeschool enrichment program (a professional high school counselor in a public school for many years) told me she needs to take the ACT in June, would be well served by sitting in a 7th-grade classroom 6-8 hours a day, bringing home a couple of hours of busywork every night, and having me “challenge her academically at home”?????! In our local public middle school, a slightly older friend passed algebra with flying colors in 7th grade, and was told she had to take algebra again in 8th grade, because that’s the highest math class they offered, and she had to have a math class. Just exactly WHAT would my child learn from that experience? That education is a waste of time? That it’s not “cool” to be smart? That there’s no point in living up to her potential, because she’s only going to be penalized anyway?
I’m sorry, but I see no value in that. I’d much rather she be allowed to progress at her own pace, and to take college at age 15 if she’s ready for it, rather than giving up or becoming a troublemaker. I refuse to harm my child just because you or someone else happens to think I’m “arrogant” if I think she’d be better off at home, where I can help her find the resources to learn what she is capable of learning.
Oh, yes, and by the way, did it ever occur to you that part of the reason there are so many moms here whose kids are “too precious, advanced, and special for regular schooling” is because public schools do a tremendous disservice to kids who ARE gifted? Maybe there are so many parents of gifted kids here because parents of gifted kids aren’t willing to let them waste their talents sitting in a school classroom waiting for their peers to catch up.
Maybe that’s because we HAVE to homeschool because schools refuse to teach our children at their level. See, that would be anti-equality. No special treatment here! My DS, though reading 7th grade level books, CLEARLY should be starting primers in 1st grade next year. Because that’s FAIR, right?
Well, Gary, yes my child is precious. Both of my children are.
Regarding whether I think he’s advanced or not, he scored in the 99th percentile over all in a nationally-recognized standardized achievement test – not a big deal, eh? SOMEONE has to be in the 99th percentile, right? This test was for two years above his current grade level by age.
My daughter, by the way, is an academically advanced Duke TIP student. Perhaps some children are simply more intelligent than others?
So, what would you have me do to school my children? I’m anxiously awaiting your answer!
After reading your article, I can see you are doing a
wonderful job teaching your students. However,
looking more closely at the photo, this is all the more reason why we choose to homeschool our
5 children.
PS
My in-laws are from Costa Rica!!!!!
Sigh….
This is a throughly weak piece – hardly something one might hope for from someone who puts themself forward as a person of noteworthy degrees. In fact, were your writing indicative of a learned individual in the stated fields, you have efficiently diminished the value of my education because we seem to share a common background.
Tighten up your verbage or expand your mind.
You have not convinced this mother of a child attending a public school that homeschooling is wrong. Your stabs at wit weren’t even effective.
Sigh.
Time was when I would have agreed with *almost* everything you wrote. In fact, my older children are still in public schools and doing well.
My autistic child, “Elf,” however, doesn’t do well in social situations. The school staff’s response to his difficulty was to lock him in a closet on several occasions. They call these “safe rooms.” My son’s story is true and has been featured in the COPAA report that was presented to Congress about four weeks ago. Children, especially disabled children, can be and ARE abused in public schools.
Not always. But our story is not the only one out there, not by a longshot.
Missouri law is such that I have no real legal recourse. In fact, they could put him in these rooms and not inform me because safe rooms are a part of many, many schools here. Without a lot of money and clout, parents like me have NO way to fight the system. If the school doesn’t help or do the right thing by these kids, it’s a long, hard road.
We chose homeschooling rather than fight. My son is not a pawn in this game, and we acted in what we felt at the time to be his best interests. It’s not what I would have chosen for him at the beginning of our educational journey, but it’s where we wound up and I have to say that I’m glad that this is an option.
I am GLAD that I could pull him out of that environment without their “approval” of my educational program. I am GLAD that I can now teach him at home without worrying about what the school is going to do to him next, or hold that little shaking child in my arms and hear him beg me PLEASE not to send him back there.
I might send him back someday. If things change. When he is older and qualifies to go to the middle school building, and IF I think that he is ready. I would like for that to be MY choice, because I feel I could look out for my son’s needs way better than the staff at this elementary ever could. Or perhaps I may decide to do cyber-schooling for a time through the state if I feel that I’m unable to teach a higher-level class. Did you know that many curriculum providers also sell/ lease DVDs with certified teachers doing the instruction? There are other programs that include tutoring help online or by phone, etc. if your taste runs more toward a standard education.
I hear your point about teachers being so well-educated… maybe better than most parents. But I’ll tell you something: I think he can learn from me a wholllle lot better in my living room after he eats his Fruit Loops than he can while he’s sitting in a concrete 5-by-7 closet with a metal door. Does that sound like a “least restrictive environment” to you?
I do understand your concerns about homeschooling. But can you understand where some homeschoolers have concerns about public education?
You have my email address and if you’re truly interested in a private conversation, I’d encourage you to email me. If you check out the “blogs I follow” link, you’ll also see a goodly number of black, biracial and mixed-race homeschoolers. You’ll see (of course) that I am also connected to people who are homeschooling their autistic children because they found that the school district was not responsive to their needs.
I have no beef with however a parent chooses the educate their child. Their child, their choice. Why are you so angry?
You’ve gotten some great answers, so I won’t cover ” Which, I would argue, is a likely result of being educated in an environment without peers. It’s hard to get by in such a diverse world as ours! And the more people you can hang out with the more likely you are to succeed, both in work life and real life.” This is your opinion, of course. Unfortunately, it is not born out by statistics. (And who said that homeschoolers are “without peers”?)
You make a big point about diversity and learning how groups are different. It is my impression (from what I remember several years ago, as well as from more current news reports), that there are few genuine differences of opinion deeply discussed in high schools. Eg, most high schools do not allow much discussion of any overtly religious viewpoint, any discussion of evolution versus intelligent design, or much discussion of anything relating to dead white men. Most homeschoolers I know, whatever their own perspective, discuss such things in great detail.
Seems that most of the homeschooling parents that came around here covered everything pretty well.
I just have on interesting point that I observed recently, and just commented to my friends about yesterday.
When speaking about homeschoolers and their inability to live in the “real world,” did you ever consider that public school is nothing like the real world? I know that this point was touched on quite a few times (in previous comments), but I have yet to see you acknowledge this. Stuck in a room for 7 hours a day, with the exact same 20 same-age peers, for 9 months out of the year- is that the real world? Really? That’s sad.
I think that public schools limit free thought and expression for so many children. They learn to become “followers” and do what everyone else is doing. For example, I take my children to parks frequently (several times a week). 2 weeks ago we show up and realize that there are 5 school busses in the parking lot (a school picnic had come to the park). I told my boys, Deuce and Dakota, to “behave and have fun,” as they ran off. Within 3 minutes (long enough for me to get my toddler fastened into the baby swings) I look up and see Deuce (9 yrs old) leading a large group of 5th-7th graders in a game of tag/war. Clearly, he was “in charge” and he had never met these children before. They were willing to follow him because he had the confidence to appear to be “in charge” and they just accepted it- probably because that is how things are at school.
I know that we always had the 1 popular kid that we all followed and tried to emulate. They were the most confident and we accepted them as our “leader.” Not much has changed (we have tons of ps friends and their moms feel the same way).
This was just one of many times that this same scenario has played out, but it was the most telling for me because there was a LARGE number of classmates that still accepted a child they had never met as their leader. There are many other examples, but as I said before- other parents have covered this fully (and I have not yet read Spunky’s response, but I know she is usually most thorough in this type of discussion… don’t want to risk repeating, LOL).
As an educator, you should be aware that a true “case against homeschooling” should be supported by verifiable facts instead of generalizations, unfounded personal opinions and juvenile stereotypes.
In answer to your question:
“So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?”
Yes. If you truly are an English teacher, I think you should consider taking some additional courses in composition and grammar.
Stephanie, I agree with you. My kids go to ps, and I can’t tell you how many times this sort of thing happens. What really annoys me is this (not so latest) idea that you can’t have winners, or one winner (again, how is THAT representative of REAL LIFE?).
You have to give everyone a certificate–a “participation” or “trying” award because they don’t want to make anyone feel badly. Once upon a time, kids not getting a certificate WAS the motivation to do better . NOW, the PC way is to give everyone the same award despite their results. Just another instance of creating and fostering a bunch of average followers, rather than expecting and rewarding leaders. No wonder all the ps standardized scores keep going down.
It almost seems overkill to add a comment, since most every point has been discussed… but there are two points I just can’t help but make.
#6: First, you state that “students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families.” Then you say that these well-educated families aren’t qualified to teach their children. Please make up your mind.
But for what it’s worth, my mom is a public school teacher with three degrees, one of which is a Masters in education. She considers my husband and I to be more qualified to teach our children than she is. Personally, I think that speaks volumes.
#4: Yes, it’s too bad no homes are made up of more than one race….
My parents kept poor college students in our house when I was little so they wouldn’t have to pay dorm fees. Most of them were black – my family is white. We called them our “big sisters”, treated them just like family, and thought nothing odd about it. Now that I’m grown, I am in an interracial marriage with an Asian man who is the first generation born in the US. We would like to adopt a child from another country someday. Somehow I don’t think our children, homeschooled though they may be, will be racists.
Be careful. Your arrogance and your intolerance are showing. But your multiple English degrees and years of experience in teaching aren’t. Your grammar in point number 10 (as well as other places) is terrible. If you are really going to have an intelligent discussion on the merits, or lack thereof, of homeschooling, you might try checking the MULTITUDE of studies demonstrating that homeschooled kids outperform their publicly schooled peers academically. For evidence of this, all you have to do is look at this year’s Scripps National Spelling Bee. The top 3 spots were filled by homeschoolers, and even though homeschoolers make up only 2% of the school age population, 11% of the participants in this year’s spelling bee were homeschooled. http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15380 But instead of discussing the merits of homeschool vs. public school, and the quality of the education received by the students in each method, your “case” against homeschooling is full of nothing more than opinions and innuendo. It’s hard to take you seriously when you obviously have not done your homework on homeschooling.
Oh, and one other thing. If you really want to make the case that homeschooled children are geeky and racist, you really should do further investigation before making such a claim. Many famous Americans were homeschooled, including our 16th president – the man who signed the Emancipation Proclamation – Abraham Lincoln. Your ignorance is blinding.
I have found this whole discussion incredibly interesting, though at times far to antagonistic for a group of who I presume to be are adults.
I agree with most of the points that Jesse made, though he could have been slightly more diplomatic in his presentation–oh well, that’s the nature of this medium and I think that there’s nothing wrong with it.
I am in no way an expert on homeschooling, but I can share my experiences with the public school system. I was in the situation of many of the children of the previous respondents, being well above grade level in every subject (I took the ACT at 15 and got a 35), but I can honestly say that being homeschooled would have been a terrible solution, if not a “cop-out” in my situation. I went through 12 years of public schooling in a pretty average district, and now I’m studying International Relations at Brown University where I’m happier than I thought possible. Public school didn’t hold me back, but rather allowed me to develop as a person and a learner in ways that would have been close to impossible in a homeschool environment.
One of the things that so many parents have mentioned is the importance of “non-academic” lessons in education. In public school I learned how to engage with the given curriculum and go above and beyond what was expected of me. This was due in no small part to the plethora of adult wisdom that surrounded me throughout school. If we were studying a subject with which I was already familiar with, I would sit down with the teacher and ask for book or movie recommendations to supplement class work or replace it. (In the “real world,” as so many of you seem fond of referencing, your mother or father won’t swoop in to rescue you from boring or uncomfortable situations. To learn to adapt is an essential skill, in my opinion). I have never had a negative response to this and I firmly believe that 99.9% of public school teachers would be absolutely delighted if students came to them with similar requests. Of course, the request can’t be presented in an antagonistic way, presenting yourself (or your child, if they are too young to advocate for themselves) as the victim.
This brings me to another invaluable public school lesson: social interaction. It is, of course, not impossible to be well-socialized and homeschooled, but public schools give students more opportunities to interact with various people and within the types of systems which they will encounter later in life. I needed to understand how to approach my teachers in the right way to request extra or alternate work, just as I had to learn how to approach working in groups with classmates from diverse backgrounds. I actually haven’t encountered the issue that many of you attribute to public schooling re: interacting with adults. I’m 19 and probably 60% of my closest friends are over the age of 30. A lot of my comfort in dealing with adults comes from my learning how to interact with teachers and other people at school. It’s helpful that you’re able to work on these social skills in a forgiving environment–if I were to end up botching a social interaction with a teacher and offending him/her, in (at most) 9 months I can start all over again. If I were to say the same thing to my mother or my parents’ friend, it could do lasting damage to a relationship.
A few other points, in no particular order:
–I think that public school serves as a common cultural basis of understanding in our society more so than in many others. We do not have and have never had a single cultural history or long set of homogeneous traditions upon which to rely when interacting in society. In fact, with our increasingly diverse media, etc. it would be difficult to find one song, tv show, or author with which every person of my age is familiar. This point became very clear to me when I moved across the country to go to college and began volunteering in a local urban high school. My experience in my own high school helped me connect to my students, from small things such as being able to (sort of) identify a popular rap song, to relating to their larger experience as students interacting with 8 or 10 teachers every day and struggling with where to sit in the lunchroom. The public school experience is especially important for immigrants or students raised in a community where a particular culture (be it ethnic, religious, etc.) dominates. It gives these students the chance to interact with people outside of that community on a sustained basis, whether thy like it or not. It is in this way that we develop ideas of what our shared values as Americans are and where our personal beliefs differ from those of others. We also learn how to maintain our own identities and belief systems (and still keep the peace) in a world where not everyone is in agreement. Looking back over the comments, it does seem that many of us could use a refresher on productive dialogue and constructive criticism. This whole idea of a “shared experience” may not mean a lot to some people, but the idea that (most) “everybody’s been there” is a great way to connect with others.
–You absolutely cannot discredit the value of sustained relationships with such a diverse group of teachers. Setting aside the question of qualifications (about which I fully agree with Jesse), the mere experience of learning from 12 different English teachers over the course of one’s primary and secondary education, all with different life experiences and perspectives on the subject, is invaluable. Even if a homeschooling parent has 15 degrees in History, his or her child will only experience the teaching style and particular interests of one history teacher and that is very sad to me. I have had great teachers and not so great teachers, but I have learned something from every one of them and would not trade in my experiences for anything. I still correspond with many of my teachers and just last week I visited my old High School and ended up having dinner and a four hour conversation with a former teacher about everything from Foucault to Argentinian politics. I would not trade my relationship with her and or any of my other teachers for anything. I already get to hear from my parents on a daily basis and benefit from their perspectives, so why on earth would I want to substantially limit my educational exposure?
–As for the “selfish” comment, I’m conflicted. I absolutely understand and appreciate the urge that many of you have expressed to try to attain the absolute best for your children, be it in education or any other genre of need that they may have. That being said, I can see how damaging both private schools and homeschooling are to our public schools. The school in which I volunteer now has consistently been one of the poorest-performing schools in the region. It is 89% minority and a remarkable percentage of students have a least one parent in prison. That being said, it’s not a dangerous school at all and the children are absolutely wonderful, but suffer due to the circumstances. This school is across the street from three wonderful private schools who send multiple students down the street to my university and other Ivies every year. Every time I pass them, I can’t help but think that if all of these students were learning together, everyone would benefit. The parents of the private and homeschooled children would still be as involved in their children’s education, but they would also be helping children whose parents aren’t as able. Speaking from experience, your children who are so smart and driven wouldn’t be “held up” by the other students, but would make great friends and learn so much by interacting with the public school kids. It’s difficult to say whether the quality of the public schools deteriorated and then parents moved their children to private schools or started homeschooling or whether it was the other way around, but now the students who have the fewest resources and whose parents are least able to be involved are left to suffer while everyone else is just following their parental instinct to acquire the best for their children–maybe a balance could be struck somewhere?
Anyway, I didn’t intend for this to be so long and it is obviously by no means a comprehensive response to many of the thought-provoking issues you all brought up, but I thought that the public school voice was slightly underrepresented in this discussion and I felt that I was in a position to discuss anecdotally at least a few of the questions raised. That being said, I really appreciate the effort and dedication you homeschoolers put into you children’s’ education–I did some cursory research before responding and I was very impressed at the level of dedication and discourse I observed on many of the homeschooling blogs and discussion boards! Of course, I’d love to hear any reactions or discuss any points of contention!
Thanks for taking the time to hear my two cents–I hope you all are having a great weekend!
Julia,
You rock! You have given one of the better, well-reasoned arguments presented on this thread and I applaud you.
While I understand that the public school system isn’t the appropriate venue for every child, it benefits many other children for the reasons Julia gave.
As someone who went through the public school system, attended both private and state universities and now teaches in a public school, I think that many of the experiences one has in dealing with other people–both students and adults–is actually very much like “the real world.” New topic of discussion: What is “The Real World” anyway?
Julia:
While I admire your intrinsic motivation, and applaud your successes, I think we both may agree that your story is quite anecdotal- most students, whether homeschooled or mainstreamed, will not make it to an Ivy League college, and learning environments in either situation become acts of behavior modification and cultural assimilation.
The real question with regards to socialization, I think that this post posits is whether or not I agree with the type of socialization each situation typically brings. The question becomes one of control, really- who controls it- a system that doesn’t value my beliefs or one that does. May I recommend (in all your free time!) that you read Pedagogy of the Oppressed by Paulo Freire- it is theoretically based, I admit, but may still be enlightening
Mark–
Thanks so much bringing up these great points!
I do admit that my experience is just that: my experience. Clearly not everyone will end up where I am now, nor do I have the same goals as many other people. I do think that my post responds to Lynn’s question: “What would you do with an eight year old who is AT LEAST three years ahead of his peers accademically [sic]?” My point was that, with some creativity, public schools can absolutely provide a great education to children of above-average intelligence, even without a designated G/T or TAG program. I don’t doubt that Lynn did what was right for her son or daughter, but the public school system absolutely DOES have the capacity to deal with these children, and homeschooling is not the inevitable choice in situations such as these.
As for your point about socialization, I think you have clearly stated the issue that many are arguing about in much more nebulous terms! I would question (what I believe to be) your assumption that the public school system doesn’t value your beliefs. It certainly as a system does not endorse them over the beliefs of others, but it has been my experience that no one belief system (or lack of belief system) is endorsed by the schools (apart from the hopefully “common ground” ideas such as tolerance and respect that allow society to function smoothly). It’s the diversity of beliefs under the same roof that I think makes the experience the most valuable. I’ve had wonderful evangelical teachers and wonderful atheist teachers who have taught under the same system, as well as interacted with students of all faiths and creeds. I think that learning how to deal with people who believe a whole diverse set of things while still maintaining one’s own values and the beliefs of one’s family is a challenging and rewarding experience that public school offers. I’m sure that there are some school systems where this attempt at impartiality on the systemic level is not achieved, but I think it is a lofty goal!
Thanks as well for your your book recommendation–I’m sure it will clarify some of your points and actually, after looking at a syllabus for my upcoming course “The Craft of Teaching,” it seems that I’ll be reading it next semester!
Again, I appreciate your comments as they were stated respectfully and have given me much to ponder!
No problem- I don’t want you to think that my comments about socialization in any way were meant as disparaging- my views are not religiously based, even if you could have read it that way (although I would like to think I’m a true liberal, and I don’t believe I have the right to take away religious-based homeschooling curriculum either) Systems are just that, systems. They perpetuate beliefs through cultural logic, and I think I should have the primary say in how my children are taught to interact with this cultural logic- I chose more of a kinestetic approach . I just tend to think that the people that will change the world will come from an upbringing and viewing that is different from the mainstream.
Acculturation has both its plusses and minuses. Be careful, though, assuming that the value of diversity must only be measured by quanities of difference. As I’m sure you know, hanging around Thayer Street gives you a myriad of opportunities to socialize with different people (maybe even more than you did within your grade-school days ), and truth be told, my homeschooled children (as well as many others like them) get the same opportunities that you now have, just earlier in life (I’m from Tiverton R.I. but we live in Houston now- we do travel a lot, and visit Providence often. Homeschooling allows for much pedagogical freedom).
“public school system absolutely DOES have the capacity to deal with these children”
This is incorrect. Glad it wasn’t very noticeable in your case. FYI, in my own 15 years of observation of why parents remove their children to homeschool, in the sub-set of those who feel that the schools are not meeting or can not meet the needs of their children, fewer parents remove their children because they are high achievers than parents of learning disabled children or those with children who have other differences or disabilities that affect their ability to learn in institutional/traditional educational settings. Just an aside.
While your comments about socialization are thoughtful, they are fairly in-the-box and not supported by any research that I know of.
Another aside: “Looking back over the comments, it does seem that many of us could use a refresher on productive dialogue and constructive criticism.” This strikes me as vaguely passive-aggressive for some reason. Considering the tone of the original essay, you were expecting what?
Another aside: “You absolutely cannot discredit the value of sustained relationships with such a diverse group of teachers.” Of course I can. I can think of several different ways to do so off the top of my head. (But I’m glad you enjoyed it and find it valuable.) You should examine your assumptions and objectivity whenever you feel tempted to write such a blanket statement.
Bugbait–
If you glance at my responses to other’s comments and reread my original comment you’ll find responses to most of the points you criticize. I won’t waste time going over them again here.
The “these children” to which I refer are children who are gifted and inquisitive, as I was. I make no statements about what percentage of the homeschool population are in this situation, but rather provide my experience as a response Lynn, as I stated in the comment to which you responded.
As for your point about what you refer to as a “passive aggressive” statement, what I would expect from adults who are so aghast at the tone of the original article would be that they not mimic it.
As for my “objectivity,” I’m clearly not objective. I had a great public school experience and I want to share that. I never participated in homeschooling, so I obviously can’t write about it with any authority. I am writing from one subjective standpoint, as are you.
Gifted students can work within a public school system, but there is a lot of variability between public schools. Each school has its own “personality”, and some are more congenial than others. Some seem to resent success.
I tutored a math student, a boy who was years ahead of his peers in that subject. He also had a diagnosis of Asperger syndrome, and therefore had an IEP. His parents tried very hard to work within the framework of the system, but the school was quite hostile from what I could see. The administrators grudgingly allowed him to use his regular math time to go to a corner of a multi-purpose room to study at a level more appropriate to him. He took online classes, which his parents paid for, through Stanford University’s gifted program. He brought his own laptop, and his parents had to convince the school to allow him to have a tutor on site (the parents paid for my services). In no way did we disrupt the school’s schedule or place a fiscal demand on them, but we were treated very poorly.
This was not one of the “special snowflakes” one of the other commenters so rudely referred to, but an accelerated student with atypical needs. Denying him the intellectual stimulation he needed, I believe, would have been disastrous.
I can’t begin to tell you of the frustrations his parents felt in working with the school system. It pained me to see it, because they are a really nice family and they were reasonable and flexible in their dealings with the school. At times, they had to invoke the input of the boy’s psychologist in order to get the school to follow the IEP. On more than one occasion, I saw his mother break down in tears because of the constant battle with school officials to honor their contractual obligations. At times the parents considered legal action, but never quite went that far. I do, however, know of other families who brought suit because of IEP issues.
I am happy to say that thanks to the diligence of his parents, this boy is now a 15-year-old high school student who has just completed his third year of calculus. He is doing this because he left the standard public school setting and opted for a combination of online classes and local community college courses. I don’t believe there is a way the public school system we have could have adequately accommodated this student, as the administrators were adamant about teachers not performing services outside of what they were contracted to provide.
Well said Peggy!
The point should be made that there is LIBERTY to do this! That freedom to choose our path, without the State’s approval (“allowing”or “granting”) to do so should be highly valued and closely guarded or we all lose.
Frankly, one big reason that we homeschool is because we CAN!
You’re 19 and already an expert on the world. Funny thing… when I was 19 I was an expert too. I’m 66 now and I laugh at the child I was at age 19. And I’m laughing at your naive, pseudo-intellectual discourse on something you know nothing about… home schooling.
Jerry–
One thing that public school has taught me is that you miss out on a lot of life by dismissing people’s opinions simply because of who they are or their station in life. If you’d rather laugh at those who believe differently than you do instead of considering their opinions and contributing positively to the discussion, this type of forum may not be the place for you.
–Julia
p.s.–Nowhere do I claim to be an expert. In fact, I preface my comments with the statement: “I am in no way an expert on homeschooling, but I can share my experiences with the public school system.” I think I at least deserve a thorough reading before you laugh at me and call me naive.
Julia–
In your words, without realizing, you are defending the homeschool movement. You say that you are 19 and 60% of your friends are over 30. THAT is one of the main ideas of homeschooling–that you should not be grouped by your age. So, you feel that it’s fine for you, at 19, to have older friends, but not at 16 or 14 or even 9. Our of curiosity, what AGE do you think it should be ALLOWED for students to be able to interact with non-same age people? WHAT is that MAGIC AGE?
Again, like the author of this article, you have a very strong opinino against homeschooling, but yet, never once mention having researched, befriended or learned about homeschoolers. How can you expect to persuade others if you haven’t done all your research?
In contrary, just about EVERY homeschool parent knows FIRST HAND about ps education. They either attended themselves, their children attended at one time, their relatives attend, their friend’s children attend, etc. etc. They are not speaking about an unknown. In many cases, they are doing daily studies and re-evaluations every time they interact with ps children. Can you say the same?
Actually, at 16 or 14 or 9 I also had adult friends. That portion of my comment was meant to respond to the assertion made by Annie that public school children “miss out on learning that its not cool to talk to adults and therefore can have an intelligent conversations with people not of their own age before they graduate high school.” She says “my brother while he was in school stopped looking people in the eye and wouldn’t even say hello to other adults. The sulky teenager (while some of the conflict that comes with puberty obviously can’t be avoided) can be because students never relate to anyone (other than their parents maybe) as the absolute authority. This allows them to learn how to think for themselves earlier- Thinking=good”. I was merely pointing out that coming from a public school background I was perfectly able to have these relationships and that the inability to interact with adults is not an essential product of public schooling as was suggested.
As for your comments about me not having researched homeschooling, I did say that I hadn’t participated in the system and therefore didn’t have personal experience with it, but I do know many homeschooling families and am good friends with people that have been homeschooled. They’re all wonderful people and I can still have them as friends without agreeing all of their decisions. Also, I did say that “I did some cursory research before responding and I was very impressed at the level of dedication and discourse I observed on many of the homeschooling blogs and discussion boards!” I am by no means an expert, nor did I claim to be, but I feel that my experiences with public school run counter to many of the characterizations I’ve seen presented here–I prefaced my offerings by saying that my experiences were merely anecdotal and should be viewed as such.
It’s unfortunate that you’re so eager to shut people out of this conversation instead of offering resources or examples to counter any of my assertions–I would be absolutely open to discussing particular points, but this type of attitude is why so many people in our culture see homeschoolers as a radical, fringe group which is unfortunate because of all of the wonderful, dedicated homeschoolers out there. I respect the work that you do and that homeschooling may be right for your children and I’d appreciate the same amount of respect for my opinion that public school is the right option for many other students.
Being able to communicate well with adults from a young age often comes more from the family or the personality than from the schooling per se. I was also able to do this from early on.
However, I know of few homeschoolers who do NOT have this skill, and most of the public high schoolers I know will not talk to adults, unless they have to, and then usually in few words.
I agree with your observation that much of this comes from the home as well as from schooling!
You and I have had different experiences with public school students–the vast majority of my classmates had no major issues interacting with people of different ages. I guess since we’re both relying on our own experiences and anecdotal evidence, we’ll have to agree to disagree until some conclusive research is done!
(If anyone knows of any such research, I’d really appreciate you pointing me towards it!)
Thanks, Melinda, for your observations!
dear Julia -
Its easy to fall into the trap of an us vs. them discussion. There is huge misunderstanding on both sides. A big one is that the homeschooling community isn’t, in fact, extremely divers and active in their communities, just like the public school community. A second one is that homeschooling is always superior to institutional education.
Neither of these statements is true.
The common denominator of both sides of the debate is that all children be given the opportunity for an excellent academic foundation and good life experience on which to build a productive adulthood.
The process of doing that is going to be different for different families. Homeschooling is not the enemy, nor is institutional schooling. The obstacle is attitudes that make sweeping, disparaging generalizations about groups of people.
K.T.
I really appreciate your thoughtful response! Rereading my comment, I can see where you could interpret it in such a way and that was by no means my intention.
I recognize that homeschoolers are incredibly diverse and that children are homeschooled for many different reasons. I have a good friend who is dyslexic and wasn’t receiving the proper support at his private school so his father decided to homeschool him. I think that it was a good decision for him and I can think of many other reasons why particular circumstances would compel a parent to make a similar decision. I also take your point about community involvement, as that has been my experience with many of my homeschooled friends, but I would still emphasize the value of exposure to and participation in activities that you or your parents wouldn’t necessarily choose. Sociology tells us (through a broad application of the Tiebout and grouping models) that people with like values, socioeconomic statuses, etc. tend to engage in the same activities, join the same groups, etc. so I think that we could all use prompting to venture out of our comfort zones. Public schools, in my personal experience, offer this type of exposure–I for instance, would never have joined 4-H and met so many great people through that program if it hadn’t been for a good friend in public school who lived on a farm and shows dairy cows.
My comment was intended to address some of the broader, more ideological issues brought up by other respondents as well as the notion that some kids are just “too smart” to be well-served by public schools.
I would love to get into more specifics and address some of the minutiae of this issue, but it seems to me that with the vitriol and broad characterizations from both sides, this forum is not the place for that.
Thanks again for your respectful, thoughtful response!
But Julia – children are curious by nature. Any parent of any kid will tell you that they find their children getting into and asking questions about stuff they never saw coming in a million years. Across the board.
My son has gained an interest in HAM radio thru his involvement in boy scouts and his own driving curiosity. Talk about accessing the outside world! One day, he taught himself how to knit by watching online tutorials. I don’t know how to knit. He wanted to know and went and found it himself.
My middle daughter wanted to learn to ride horses. We can’t afford the expense, so she struck a deal with the owner ( on her own) and she works at the barn two days a week to pay for what she wants to do.
My teenager wanted more spending cash than we could give her. Now she works at a landscaping nursery making good money and dealing with the public and co-workers. Social skills? You Betcha!
Its not an either or/ us v. them proposition.
Any good teacher will admit that there is no one-size-fits-all education. Even a teacher in a classroom of 20 or 30 will employ several different teaching styles to teach the same material. The same thing happens in a home school environment. Perhaps 30 or 40 years ago when home schooling was the realm of missionaries abroad and elite athletes and the like the argument for the limited scope of contact may have had merit. But times have changed; with the advent of technology and networking opportunities that’s just not the case anymore.
I guess the gist of what I was trying to say is that home schoolers tend to be a demographic of adventurers, explorers and non conformists; not the commonly held belief that we are isolationists, rigid and over scrupulous. I’m not saying there are none like that. There are some. And they stick out like sore thumbs. But that’s a very small part of the whole.
Julia, I appreciate your well-thought-out comments about your experience. I do think that, as you get a bit older, your viewpoint will change, somewhat, but you have done a lovely job of expressing what you think with kindness.
I do not think your experience is typical. I spent many of my growing up years outside the US, but I know for me, the years I was in school in the US, I never built the type of relationships with teachers that you describe. We had to be in the next class within 5 minutes, and my ride was ready about 15 minutes after school (barely time to get to my locker and out the doors). I did have ONE teacher who said she was available after school, if we needed to talk.
What I learned from public school, as a “gifted” child, was
1) that I didn’t have to work to succeed. It never occurred to me that I might get more if I tried harder. I did what they said, and I knew the topic, and that was it.
2) that it didn’t matter if I already knew it or could work faster–I would just have to sit around and be bored, anyways. I learned to put down my pencil and listen to the teacher explain it for the fourth time, though I knew it before she finished the first time, because I skimmed the directions. I learned not to bother trying hard, because it didn’t matter, anyways.
3) most kids don’t really want to be your friend. They may want to play with your toys or they may close the clique ranks to you, but you will rarely find one who really cares about you. (It also turns out, the socially questionable are also the most likely to be kinder to others, though I am not a geek, and never have been.)
What I learned from my dad, when we were out of the country and I studied by correspondence:
1) I could find anything, by looking it up in the right place
2) I could figure out how to solve any problem, if I just asked the right questions and used the resources I had (usually, that meant the index of the textbook)
I understand your point about wishing to encourage and help the kids who are in the school you work with, Perhaps, if there were a mass incoming of all the private school kids, the school culture would change. However, most of their parents have become tired of battling the system “by themselves,” it seemed, and have dropped out one by one, from a system they could not get to care.
Melinda,
Thanks so much for this thoughtful response! I enjoyed hearing about your experiences and I feel that there’s not much about which we disagree!
I know gifted students who have had the same issues with particular schools and school districts as you had and I absolutely respect the desire to get away from teachers and students who it seems don’t care. I could very well have been in this position myself if it weren’t for my parents’ fundamental attitudes about education.
In the end, my parents weren’t concerned with my report cards or how I did in school according the “grading” system, but rather with whether I could come home every day having learned something. Even if I had over 100% in the class, they were disappointed if I was sliding through without any thought or effort. They made it clear that I shouldn’t sit passively by and be “educated,” but rather work with teachers to set goals for myself and be held accountable, regardless of the level of the other students. The minute I started taking that approach, I loved school and was frustrated or bored only infrequently. Obviously, many students don’t have this type of support at home or don’t have the the ability or desire to work closely with teachers, but it worked out wonderfully for me and it turned out that the problem was my approach, not the school’s.
Clearly, this is not the case in every situation, and if I had had the opportunity to travel around the world at a young age like you, I probably would have jumped on it, but I did love going to public school and found it to be an incredibly educational and valuable experience!
Thanks again for your comments! I’m sorry that you had a negative public school experience, but I am glad that you found an educational model that worked for you!
Julia,
Congratulations on your initiative. It is wonderful that you were able to have such a positive public school experience and supportive teachers. Unfortunately, your experience is very rare and the reason that many gifted children spend some of their school career homeschooling.
I strongly suggest that you pick up and read the book “Genius Denied” by Bob and Jan Davidson for an accurate view of what is normally experienced by your intellectual peers.
Congratulations on your wonderful achievements.
“In public school I learned how to engage with the given curriculum and go above and beyond what was expected of me. This was due in no small part to the plethora of adult wisdom that surrounded me throughout school. If we were studying a subject with which I was already familiar with, I would sit down with the teacher and ask for book or movie recommendations to supplement class work or replace it.”
Based on this comment and what I know about Brown, you are home schooled, honey. Or should I say, self-educated. It’s the same thing once you hit high school.
The only difference is, if my son was studying a subject he was already familiar with, we’d go on to something else, not make him sit in a particular chair in a particular room for an hour a day all year to get a credit named “English 10″ or “American history.”
Julia,
You make good points for your own education, and I’m glad you can look back on a successful academic environment. That’s what homeschoolers are focus on too. But remember, the whole point of Jesse’s blahg was that homeschooling is bad, public school is good~ and he/she goes so far as to say that public school is really the only way the good things can happen. Simply because you, Julia, experienced all these good things doesn’t mean that they way you did is the only way you can. Or the only way the are acquired.
Then you start your response with: “I’m no expert in homeschooling but”. If I began a statement with “I’m no expert in public schooling but” I think you would dismiss my opinion immediately. The fact that several have taken the time to actually read your thoughts on this speaks loudly about the general receptiveness of the homeschool community.
Your point about everyone working together is valid, but naive. If I need a surgeon, I will seek out the best that I can. It won’t be Bill Gate’s surgeon, or the President’s surgeon, but it will be the best that I can afford and find. The fact is, some can only choose the Health Department (and there may be fine doctors there) but I probably will not choose the Health Department. Perhaps everyone would benefit from a Mayo Clinic-Health Department relationship, but that’s not the way our culture operates right now, and personally I’m not willing to risk my own health just to make that vision happen.
It’s the same with the Public school/ Private school/ Homeschool systems to which you refer. The truth is, most of us parents are extremely occupied with our agendas~which do include serving our community and taking care of others outside our four walls~ but cannot possibly include each and every poor school district out there.
Where you are working now, you are in an unique situation to try and better the world around you and you seem to have the passion for it. So go for it! You do your thing, and I’ll do mine. But please don’t judge me for not taking care of the poor kids in the lowest performing district in my community.
My taxes (my husband is a medical professional and gives away much of his resources, time and materials, while paying a lot of taxes) go towards these schools you mention. When it comes to homeschooling, or private schooling, we pay forthat ourselves. If we weren’t taxed so high already, we may be more inclined to see your point and be more benevolent towards the poorer public schools. Maybe taxes aren’t a big deal to you yet. But if you ever own a business, provide your own insurance, save for your family’s future and still work for 6 months before you keep any of the dollars you make, it becomes a big deal and it should. Especially when you observe failure with that money~ as you articulately stated. So, we do what we can with what we have left over.
Truth is, if every parent just worked hard to take care of their own to the best of their abilities and to the utmost of their resources, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation, or seeing the problems in the world that we do. I’m desperate to change the cycle of my own family, and give my kids the best advantage possible. This is the path I’ve chosen because in every way, the fruit is good. All that you’ve mentioned about your own education can be achieved, while at the same time our family life is valued and serene, which is something I do not observe in the high-competitive, stress performance world of traditional school. There is enough time for that kind of burden for years to come, if they want to live that way.
Julia, you’ve quite swallowed the propaganda, haven’t you?
First, I hate to disappoint you, but you are merely bright. You aren’t nearly smart enough for there to be a substantial mismatch between what you know and what the school is trying to teach. You went to school and, you know, LEARNED THINGS. And you went to a GOOD school, where you didn’t have to deal with any of the things those underprivileged kids you’re so eager to talk about did.
Why did you not ATTEND the bad school, if that is the morally worthy thing to do? Why are you going to Brown instead of to a low-ranked school? Yet you believe that OTHER parents ought to deliberately put their children in such schools to make them better.
YOU were never threatened or assaulted. You had classes appropriate to your moderate but not inconsequential intellect made available to you, and so you got an appropriate education.
Do you know what happens to most very intelligent children? They suffer from depression and isolation in public schools because they have no peers. They become angry and arrogant. They learn laziness and scorn of others, and they learn to fear hard work because they never had to learn how.
You are what’s called “pleasantly gifted.” You’re gifted enough just to be a bit better than most other people at most things. But you still had to work some in school, and you still had to study some, and you still learned new things. None of these things is true for a very gifted child.
It’s nice that it all worked out well for you, but it is astonishingly arrogant of you to take your incredibly narrow experience and declare that every other “smart kid” must be just the same.
I have to admit I laughed through most of this. And that is a fundamental difference between you, teachers like you, and most homeschool parents. I do not care if you teach hundreds of students a day, or, for that matter where you teach them. I cannot fathom why some teachers are so antagonistic toward homeschoolers unless they are worried about job security. Don’t worry too much. I think you’re safe for a little while.
Why do you care what we do with our own children? I don’t care what you do with yours – unless you are my neighbor and it was your public schooled son who tried frying an egg on my driveway last month. In that case you could at least try explaining to him, or better yet, have his science teacher explain to him that August would have been a much better month for his little experiment.
I have homeschooled my children now for many years and they have had ample opportunities to socialize with a wide variety of people. It is above ridiculous for all of the public school enthusiasts to continually bring up socialization as a reason against homeschooling. You are all begining to sound rather ignorant. Homeschooled children, by and large, are much better able to socialize with people of all ages, and ethnicities. There are all sorts of studies out there with regard to that. I am begining to believe that it is all of you who are living in a bubble. To be honest, upon reading your article, one would think that you have never talked to a homeschooled child in your life, let alone really gotten to know one.
I also find it interesting that you mentioned the USA Today article. That you would use it in support of your argument does you no favors. This article is clearly biased, poorly thought out, poorly written, and full of unsubstantiated suggestions about who is choosing to homeschool. All the writer had to do was mention a poll or report to make you believe he/she (I can’t honestly remember which) has some proof for their claim or suggestion. Maybe the widespread inability of people to reason through an aritcle like this has something to do with how many people in this country are being educated in the public school system. Of course there are more homeschoolers in 2009, as compared to 1999, making above $50,000/yr. Could it simply be that incomes, in general, have risen in the last 10years? My husband certainly makes more per year now than he did 10 years ago, don’t you?
And my final thought here has to do with your argument about homeschoolers being selfish by keeping their children at home. You seem to, rather erroneously, think that enthusiastic scholars provide some sort of peer-pressure that spurs underachievers on to greater heights of exellency in their studies. So, you believe we are depriving the rest of society by keeping our children at home. My answers to that are this:
1. Peer-pressure can only be obtained in a peer-group, which is the most damaging form of socialization there is. The overall intelligence and morals of a group are at their lowest in a peer-group environment. Do you really think something good can consistantly come from something that is inherently negative. Age diversified groups are the ones in which we most often receive positive interaction with others. And I don’t mean 30 students that are all within 3 years of each other in age. I mean a wide variety of ages.
2. As a product of the public school system, I am amazed that you would hold this position. Are you really that optimistic/naive? I was a good student, graduating with honors, but I neither strived for anything better because someone else received better grades than me, nor, do I believe anyone else tried for better because of my good grades. In fact many poor students are resentful of the high achievers.
3. You are welcome to call this selfish if you like, but other people’s children are not my responsibility. Contrary to the book, it does not take a village to raise a child. It takes really responsible, interactive, uncompromising parents to raise a child. That is, if you want to do it well. I do hold a general concern for other children. I would love to be able to convince everyone that it would be in their childrens’ best interest to bring them home to teach them, and I am willing to inform and encourage anyone to that end. However, I am not willing to sacrifice my own children’s education, or well being on behalf of other people’s children. Ultimately, the decision to homeschool a child rests exactly where it should – on the shoulders of that child’s parents. You really should not be so angry with parents for making what they feel to be the best decision for their children. You would not want the rest of society to tell you how to raise your children, if indeed you have any. As I often tell my children when they are angry about something, you need to ask yourself about the REAL reason behind your anger. It almost always boils down to some sort of selfishness on the part of the one who is angry. Usually for some perceived wrong. When you are truly secure in yourself and your decisions you rarely, if ever, feel the need to attack others.
You remind me of a good point–if all parents were willing to unselfishly put time into their kids’ education (be it helping with public school homework or homeschooling or being involved with a private school), VERY FEW of the kids would need the “positive example” of currently-homeschooled kids. Why should I be labeled “selfish” because I will do this, while other parents abdicate their responsibility entirely?
10. I attended both public (K-9) and private (10-12) schools. I was a geek in both places. And I never minded being called one, because in my opinion those who were the antithesis of geek-dom were generally shallow, immature, and often cruel. I’d rather NOT be included in their exclusive popularity club, and am perfectly content that my children aren’t either. Being dependent on the group opinion is a result of peer-dependency and a lack of self-confidence. Peer-dependent children and teens will attack ANY quality that is different from the accepted “norm”, whether it’s school background, religious differences, or choice of clothing. I would consider the above “insult” as a compliment.
9. Why not?? Why should “education” be an exclusive act instead of a natural part of our day? We are capable of learning in any place and at any time, and the BEST learning takes place in settings that do NOT include rows of desks and uninterested classmates. Just for the record, our family DOES have a separate schoolroom, but it’s mostly a dedicated storage area so I can have easy access to all our paraphernalia. We use the desks there so the dining room table stays cleared off, not because the kids learn “better” in a specified area.
8. Two points to argue in this one.
A) By this logic we should all send our kids to the worst school district just so they can encourage those who are less fortunate. From what I have read about inner city schools, and remember from my own public school experience, those “less-fortunate” kids tend to ATTACK those among them who excel academically, so how is putting my kid in that environment going to help anybody?
B) You are assuming that only the BEST students are being homeschooled. A large percentage of homeschoolers are dealing with learning disabilities, or are simply very active little boys. The schools do NOT do these kids much good. The kids who learn differently are stigmatized, left behind, and often quit school before graduation because it is totally pointless for them to be there. I’d much rather teach my kids through their strengths and give them an education that can truly benefit them, than let them flounder in a system that does not know how to handle them and thinks the best way to teach an active little boy is to drug him.
7. That a self-proclaimed agnostic claims to understand God’s desires for my kids is the ultimate in arrogance. Those verses you quote were given to ADULT believers. More appropriate quotes:
Mark 10:14 “But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.” If anything, the public schools definitely “forbid” the teachings of Christ.
Deuteronomy 6:6-8 “These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. Impress them on your children. Talk about them when you sit at home and when you walk along the road, when you lie down and when you get up. Tie them as symbols on your hands and bind them on your foreheads.”
This verse is one that many families take as their primary reason for homeschooling. How can we possibly teach our children to live Godly lives when they spend the majority of their day in a very UNGodly environment? Statistics show that the majority of kids from Christian families that attend public school abandon their faith as adults. My children will be very well-grounded in what they believe, and therefore better able, when they are adults, to follow the commands to witness.
6. You’re right…to a point. But very few homeschoolers even attempt to be the authority in all these areas. There are MANY options for teaching the advanced subjects other than Mom attempting to do so. There are video and on-line courses, community colleges (who happily take homeschooled high-schoolers), co-operative classes, private tutors, and in many states we can pick-and-choose classes at the local public schools. I would also argue that not all students need highly-trained teachers for all subject areas. Homeschooled students are usually taught to seek out resources and learn for themselves from the best they can find. Motivated learners do not NEED a “trained professional” to force-feed them in a subject they enjoy.
Also, I know MANY homeschool moms who are also certified teachers. EVERY one of them will tell you that their professional training in NO way prepared them to homeschool, and in many ways was a detriment. Homeschooling and classroom teaching are two very different animals.
5. Lots of things in this world piss me off too, but that doesn’t give me the right to condemn other’s choices.
4. In many parts of the country, the schools are just as segregated as the homes. The schools reflect the population of the community, and many communities are pretty homogeneous. Personally, I have lived in at least 8 states and 2 foreign countries. Only ONE school district I lived in was anything near “multi-cultural”. And that district had the MOST racially prejudiced population. My kids will grow up to be less prejudiced in a home where they are frequently reminded that skin color is irrelevant, than they would in a school where racial divisions are evident in the lunchroom and where the social pressure of the various “cliques” forbids the inter-mixing of the students.
3. How do you define social preparedness? My kids are empathetic, friendly, able to converse with anyone. They are the kid on the playground who is helping the injured toddler, or including the “social outcast” in their game. My daughter just graduated from college, and on more than one occasion her stating that she was homeschooled resulted in “Really? but you seem so normal!” (or something to that effect). Obviously homeschooling didn’t hamper HER social development. My own experience with the snobby, cliquey, hurtful social hierarchies of public school is more than enough to convince me that school is NOT the place to learn the KIND of socialization I want my kids to learn.
2. Though that quote might apply to some homeschoolers, it certainly does not apply to all of them. For starters, I don’t know ANY homeschoolers that qualify as “high-income”. Most are one-income households who clothe their kids from garage sales and thrift shops. Our budget for school books is generally in the hundreds for the entire year- not thousands. Many homeschoolers would choose a private school if they could afford it. As for risk-taking, we generally feel that to homeschool is LESS of a risk to our kids’ future than putting them in the hands of the public school. We ARE less afraid of public opinion, which is NOT the same thing.
1. I refer you back to reason #10. This is hardly an insult in my book. Homeschoolers may be less able to “integrate and communicate” in the world of popular (Hollywood) culture, but they will be more able to carry on a coherent conversation on history, or politics, or other subjects of REAL significance. They WILL be naive in subjects that kids SHOULD be naive in. (What idiot decided that kindergarteners should understand homosexuality???) Homeschoolers are proving themselves to be valuable assets to colleges and businesses, who like their self-sufficiency and their work-ethic. THESE are much better goals than knowing who is dating who, and what happened last night on the current R-rated TV show. Public schools turn out their own fair share of geeks. This is largely genetic, NOT taught!
I am very appreciative of the fact that you decided to post this blog. I find that if you feel you represent the teachers in public schools, I am very happy to NOT have my children go to your schools.
I am happy I do NOT have to send them to a school where a teacher would feel free to insult them because of how they were educated previously. I am happy to NOT send them to a school where the English teacher with several degrees, in her post about her degrees, can not use proper grammar. I am happy that I do NOT have to expose my children to people who obviously have such a hatred and lack of respect for those who believe differently. I’m glad they don’t have to hear their teachers calling people “geeky” and “idiots” without making an effort to undertand the people whom they are name-calling.
I am happy to NOT have them become desocialized in public school by hanging around with people who are so critical of others and unforgiving.
10. If being called a homeschooler is the worst that happens to a child in the name-calling departement in college, I would find that to be very impressive.
9. I don’t think I could call you old-fashioned in this belief, because if you had been properly educated, you would know that for thousands of years, people were educated in the home, and that public school is a recent development of the last couple hundred years.
8. I’m failing to follow your logic on this one. If you were to remove from a classroom all the students whose last name demands more time and attention; whose “money” demands the teacher pass them no matter what, and demands that other children pay attention to them, it would follow that teachers would have more time to focus on those who truly need the education to move up in the world. Namely, the underpriviledged.
7. God sent MEN out to be apostles and to spread the Gospel. Not children of 5 years of age. If you are going to criticize another religion, it would really be to your own benefit to find out what you are arguing against before you start. The Bible tells PARENTS to raise a child up in the way he should go, and he tells PARENTS to teach their children about God. Not teachers.
Do we send 5 year olds to be diplomats to another country? Do we send 8 year olds to lobby in congress? Why should we send young children out to witness for the faith before they have fully learned it. The Bible, in case you haven’t noticed yet, isn’t something a child can learn in a month or two.
6. In order to argue that someone else is arrogant, it would really be benefical not to do it in an arrogant way. And, while being arrogant about your double major, it really would be beneficial to say “Do you think you can teach English as well as I do?” rather than “as good as me?” which is really grammatically incorrect. It doesn’t really do your point a whole lot of good.
5. As a teacher who is strongly agaisnt homeschooling, I would really think it would make you happy not to have these types of students in your class. But, you are free to feel angry about whatever you choose. It’s nice to know that out of all the things to really hate, you managed to really get your priorities straight on this one. Sure, get mad at all the little kids. No, don’t worry about the government or politics, or global warming. The only thing really important in the world is that some people don’t send their children to public school.
4. Having children who are born into two cultures and are being raised among many cultures, I have no idea to what you are referencing. Oh, perhaps you are referencing my public school, where there are no students of color. There are barely even students with black hair. Yep, there’s racial diversity for you at its finest.
3. Public schools are grounds for desocialization. Where else can you get placed into a classroom with students, not based upon ability, or work ethic, but on nothing else except having the same birthday. And, then explain the whole “no note-passing, no talking in class” thing and how that promotes socialization. And the shooting the teachers and killing your classmates, that must be great socialization.
2. I find that sending a child to school where one can find drugs of various types and classifications, alcohol, hard liquor, tobacco, sexual education, pornography, knives, guns, threats, bullying, teachers harrassing and name calling (hmm, would that be you), swearing, racial discrimination, gangs, fights, and countless other interesting yet illegal or disrespectful but still potentially life-threatening, to be a much greater risk than teaching your child at home. I guess it all depends on what you call risk-taking. Should I risk my child’s education, or would it be ever so much better to risk their life?
1. Yes, I have met many homeschooling parents and homeschooled children. I find very few of them to be geeky, but yes, there are some geeky ones among them. Because I’m pretty sure public school must never have had a geeky child, the way you talk about it.
But, I am proud to consider myself geeky. Because it indicates that since you are not geeky, and I am geeky, and your children (if you have any) should not be geeky, and I would like my children to be geeky if they wish to; my children have a statistically higher chance of becoming better educated and receiving a higher salary than yours. Not to mention, my children are at much lower risk for losing their job related to discriminatory comments, rude insults, and lack of general knowledge than you and your children are.
Mr. Scaccia,
Like many of the other posters, I agree with many of your points. I know many homeschooling parents who have limited educational backgrounds. Homeschooling CAN be socially and culturally limited and can indeed remove resources from the public schools.
So why, against all of my natural inclinations, did I find myself teaching my first-grader at home 10 years ago? I had a child who had dyslexia and an anxiety disorder and was very stressed in the classroom setting. At home, she learned much more quickly with one on one attention and her anxiety was manageable.
As time went on, I met many well-educated, broadminded homeschooling families and became aware of the great array of resources available for teaching at home. I have an MD and all of the homeschool moms I socialize with have at least a bachelor’s degree or higher. I am perfectly competent to teach English and science but have used tutors and private classes for other subjects like art and geometry. Homeschooling has allowed us to spend more time together as a family, to take long, interesting trips in the off season, pursue subjects in depth rather than teaching to a test. It made it possible to have lunch with their Greatgrandma every week until her death.
My kids are not geeks. They know the stories of the Odyssey and the Iliad. They can discuss intelligently the US use of the Atomic Bomb. They also dress like average teens, attend a city church with lots of kids of different ethnic backgrounds, kids who are in foster care and kids being raised by grandparents. They do sports and volunteer work.
Perhaps “society” would be better if my kids attended the local school but I’m not convinced that my kids would be…and they’re really my primary responsibility. Learning as a family, learning at each child’s pace, pursuing the subjects that catch your interest, being involved with the community-these are as much a part of homeschooling as your stereotype of rightwing religious nerds.
Jesse, may I suggest that you are just as defensive as the home educators commenting here, perhaps even more so. After all, your blog post was not even in response to some article about the case against teachers, but just a simple article about homeschooling. Your fifth point, in particular, highlights your defensiveness.
I am (was) a teacher myself and I recognise the difference between teaching a class of approximately thirty children, many of whom struggle to understand the concepts I am introducing them to and homeschooling my own children. It really is not difficult to teach the basics of the three r’s to individual children, especially when you do it when you see that they are developmentally ready, which is what most homeschooling parents do. My second and third children learnt to read without being taught at all, in fact.
When homeschoolers are older, they are able to learn things with a minimum of parental intervention (or teaching) thanks to packaged curricula, online resources, etc. A homeschooling parent is thus not subject to the same requirements as a teacher.
If you were just looking for more traffic to your blog, you certainly hit on the right method with this rant!
To the author of this article–I find this piece annoying in a very similar way I find Sarah Palin— ignorant, misguided, and drawing ridiculous conclusions from the information given.
Hey, I like Sarah Palin!
I find this article reflective of a closed mind. You speak often against intolerance, and yet this article reflects your own intolerance. I’m surprised that someone with “a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles,” would embarrass themselves by writing such a childish, arrogant and uneducated piece like this. If you were teaching my children and I read this intolerant garbage, I would immediately withdraw my children and begin homeschooling them.
I think all these accusations of homeschoolers being arrogrant and selfish comes from teachers like Mr. Scaccia and non-homeschooling parents who are JEALOUS!
Teachers are jealous that parents (without all the amazing credentials they hold) are actually able to educate children who produce scores and grades better than they/their school district can. The teachers are threatened–as they should be!
Non-homeschooling parents are jealous because they don’t like the fact that the homeschooled children are getting advantages that their own children aren’t getting. They are too lazy, busy, uninterested, or unable to dedicate their time to their own children so they resent the others who do–who’s selfish now??? And I also think that many ps parents resent hs parents’ free, non-rushed lifestyle.
Bottom line is that if you, as a teacher, don’t like losing students to homeschooling or private schools, then IMPROVE your schools, change your attitude, and make the school a place the other parents and students WANT TO COME to, instead of trying to FORCE THEM to go to. I have tried working with many schools. Most don’t want to be bothered because it’s too much work to differentiate for my kids since they are so advanced.
For ps parents who are against homeschooling. Why do you care what they do with their children? How is it any of your business? Are you this angry on the choice of their vacation destination too?? Although my children are at the ps, I LOVE LOVE LOVE it when I see moms out with their kids during the school day. In a world where kids are distanced from parents, depressed 1/2 the time, and are lost, I’m glad that there’s at least one sector out there that still believes in family values. I know that THOSE kids aren’t going to go on a shooting rampage one day. Can you say the same for the ps students that are imprisoned in the ps down the street, confined to their chairs, being bullied, made fun of, and being bored to tears, watching the clock until dismissal time?
One more thing. My daughter, the home school mom, taught herself how to read before she entered first grade. Anyone who can do that is fully qualified to teach others how to read.
Dear Jesse,
I am a homeschooling parent who has two kids in college (though my 12 year old is only part time) and two younger kids who are learning exclusively at home. My family has sacrificed a second income so that I can be home with the kids, and we are certainly not what anyone would call wealthy. Homeschooling works for us, and that’s enough for me.
I am saddened by your polarizing argument against home education. It seems as pointless as the endless debates on working vs. stay at home moms. I have been in both camps, and I don’t see any good coming out of artificially dividing people this way. I have been a working mother and a mother with schooled children as well as a stay at home, homeschooling parent. If you feel I am arrogant, I assure you that I am the same person now that I was then. Maybe I was an arrogant working, kids in school mom?
Mom and/or Dad do not have to be experts in every subject. We have access to online courses (many are free!), outside tutors, and co-op classes. Gifted students can enroll in college courses or work with a mentor. In addition, the children have more time to explore with all of their senses on field trips that can happen much more frequently than public school policies allow.
Your accusation that we are robbing the public schools of top students frightens me a bit. Are public schools set up to serve the individual, or do you feel that the individual should serve the school? Are you a communist? Last time I checked, America was a place where individualism was celebrated; not conformity.
I come from a family of professional educators and school administrators. I have the highest respect for teachers, and I think their work today is tougher than ever before. But I also know that homeschooling parents have the ability to customize educational plans for each and every child in the family. Most schools do not have the ability to be as flexible. You claim that parents are not qualified to teach, yet there is no denying that homeschoolers have a record of high achievement in national competitions and on standardized tests. How do you justify the success here, if homeschoolers are not well educated?
For more information on homechoolers and socialization, please see Rachel Gathercole’s book:
http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art27055.asp
Thank you for your time,
Lorel
Lorel,
How did you get your 12 year old enrolled in college courses? In my city, there is a strict “minimum-16-years-old” policy.
Hi Caroline-
Many schools claim an age policy. Your best bet is to keep smiling, and be persistent. If you have high SAT or ACT scores in hand, a record of high school level work, and a student who is articulate and can self-advocate, you should have a good shot at getting through the red tape. No school wants to be accused of age discrimination. Look for your college’s information regarding “ability to benefit” and age discrimination. A letter of recommendation from an instructor or adult friend who knows your child well may also be helpful.
good luck!
Yay for going to college early! Just wanted to encourage you all to find a way to send your kids as soon as they are ready. I started at 14 years old at our state university and it was perfect for me.
At our college the age is 16 UNLESS the child can pass a test, called the Compass, to prove they’re ready for college level work. Many homeschoolers are ready for college level work at a young age and so they easily pass the Compass test. You might ask under what circumstances they will make exceptions or ask if they offer the Compass.
hahahahaha!
Let’s see now
Your School socialization? gangs, sex, drugs, teen pregnancy, unending drama, not to mention teachers who sexually abuse students and routinely use humiliation in the classroom ….
Your School academic excellence? American students ranked way behind other countries in the world. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/04/AR2007120400730.html)
Your School preparation for the real world, college and beyond? Most kids don’t know how to give change in a store (ask any storekeeper who hires them) or figure percentages in their heads – most kids have very inadequate life skills from being able to prepare a meal for themselves to doing laundry – most kids have an extremely limited knowledge of history or economics and certainly do not understand how government works or what their rights and duties are as citizens.
I would trade a homeschool “geek” over the average government schooled and government indoctrinated kid any day of the week!
Can you honestly say you are proud of the level of competence and ability of independent thought demonstrated by America’s “school educated” graduates? If you are – you are seriously in denial and deluding yourself. I would suggest that before you mock and throw stones at the choice to homeschool, that you clean up your own backyard.
Right before reading your entry, I was reading an online TIME article that precisely supported your opening sentence:
“A 2004 Education Department study found that about 10% of the nation’s 50 million public-school students had experienced some kind of improper sexual attention from teachers and other school employees.”
http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1901762,00.html?xid=newsletter-daily
10%!!! That’s a lot! If I homeschool, they’ll have 0% chance. hmmm… Is that your definition of selfish, Mr. Scaccia?
For someone who seems concerned about social and cultural diversity, you have made quite a sweeping generalization yourself that home schooling children are upper middle class, Caucasian, socially awkward, isolated, naive bigots. ( forgive me, potential bigots).
The only debate point you make that is defensible is that homeschooling pisses you off.
Sorry you had a bad day.
Folks, you’ve been trolled. The author of this piece has written a counter-argument in his piece :
Those students threatening to drop out?… Let them, I say
His posts are all about creating tempests. After reading some of his other posts, I understand why he quotes USA Today. He writes to the standard of “puff” news: 3 minute reads which generate a strong emotional response. Facts, research and analysis are not relevant to his goal.
By giving these replies, you are bringing traffic to the site & building its credibility. Sadly, I’ve just done the same by posting this.
An internet blog gains significance by generating traffic. If we ignore the site, then the traffic numbers drop & his ability to reach people drops. In particular, when you post links to this site in your blogs or on newsgroups, you increase traffic. Ignorant reporting should have as small an audience as possible. May I suggest ignoring this site & letting it fade into background of internet bloggers.
Hi all,
I just posted a follow-up. Check the main site.
And remember… this writing is an opinion. I don’t claim to be an expert on homeschooling… just one teacher with a voice.
Frankly, your attitude is likely to promt more parents to consider homeschool. Also, your attitude is probally held by the majority of public school teachers these days, although they are unwilling to admit it.
As states around the country continue to implement school to work policies and curriculum changes in line with the 21st century skills, you will be seeing more and more parents pulling their kids out of public schools when they come to realize that it is not about education anymore but social training for “worker bees” to “compete” in the global market. You admit that you feel it is about the collective and not the individual child and their needs, in your opinion, of course.
For example, you might be interested that a high number of twice exceptional children, an issue that knows no racial or economic boundaries, have to be homeschooled.
As a public school teacher you would know why parents would be forced to pull them from public school. Most public schools resist services and interventions in those who don’t fail, often true for gifted children as they are able to compensate.
What about Yale University’s study that found 20% of the population have dyslexia. We all know how public schools feel about dyslexia. Isn’t it the “D” word these days. No intervention for most, unless of course, they are failing.
Just the tip of the iceberg really, and really quite a travesty.
I would have to disagree that most who choose to homeschool are wealthy. The wealthy usually will choose private school. Many who homeschool can’t afford that option.
Thanks for giving us a glimse into the hidden attitude that prevails in the public teacher population.
Don’t worry, someday, You will probally get your way, and homeschooling will be banned. History has proven tyranny will follow.
FYI, Chris, I haven’t taught public high school for a few years now.
And as I stated in a previous comment, I would never want homeschooling to be banned. Choice in education is a vital American right. Do I think our society would be better if private schools and homeschooling were banned? Yes. But I would not want to live in that society.
You said: Do I think our society would be better if private schools and homeschooling were banned? Yes. But I would not want to live in that society.
****************************
*grin* If it would be a better society, why wouldn’t you want to live in it?
That’s what I was wondering as well. Just goes to show you more of the hypocrytical bs that this writer is all about.
2006 records (http://ftp2.census.gov/govs/school/06f33pub.pdf) show that state spending ranged from 5K-15K per student depending on the state. Wow! This would mean a minimum of 10K would be spent if my 2 children were in public school. Teaching them at home saves at least 10K. Are you sure I’m being selfish here? If I had 10K to spend every school year we would have to travel the world with them in order to spend it all. Sometimes I wonder if we should keep feeding an inefficient system that does not yield positive results. (http://www.fcd-us.org/resources/resources_show.htm?doc_id=711495). Alberta gives homeschooling parents $1000 per child each year. I think they may be on to something.
At least in our district, if the kids aren’t in public school, the district gets nothing for them. Which is why the superintendent has gone way out of his way to get my homeschoolers back into public at least part-time (that and the test scores. Wouldn’t want to be selfish with our test scores.)
Yes, they want the money homeschoolers would bring. But by homeschooling I am saving our debt ridden government the money the district would get. The district still gets the money I pay in property taxes. I don’t even spend as much on homeschooling as the portion of my property taxes going toward the local school district. What we have is an inefficient system funded by a debt-ridden government.
“As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off.”
No really? Why not lead and end with that point as it was the only true and honest one made.
“Personally I’m agnostic” but yet a solid view on how others should manage their faith.
We witnessed various families testify before the Ohio House representatives on a host of educational issues. One Muslim woman spoke in favor of an online school her child attends from home. They made their choice to end the physical abuse on her sons to and from school. Many moved to charter schools or homeschooling because No Child Left behind finally destroyed education for many top achieving students.
“But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me,…” What was the word you used, arrogant?
Thank for supporting my belief that my child’s current role in the classroom is just to help a teacher and other kids with their work ethic. It is a comfort to know while we aren’t learning much that we are making the world a better place.
Funny thing. I’m not a homeschooler. I hope not to become one. But you’ve clearly NEVER walked into an urban school. You clearly NEVER shared a compassionate chat over tea with parents of a profoundly gifted child. You do however mock in a strange forum for a professional. What’s next autism, stay at home moms, catholic schools?
I’m not an English grad – but I did do well in debate. You speak of intolerance breed by homeschooling? Do you really want to go there? Your entire rant is an example of ignorant, type casting, intolerance. I’m so glad you consider yourself a teacher – a clear hater of the geeks (and no you didn’t just mean socially awkward). Great. How can I find you and sign my family up for a hate mongering class.
Yes, I did meet a homeschooled adult recently – he is one of our State Senators.
Jesse Scaccia, don’t try to defend yourself. Your blog was the kind of inward attempt of politically incorrect humor best kept in a wine bar – not publically posted. It would serve you well to take down the post and replace with an apology.
A graduate of public schooling, a mom with public school kids, who knows God doesn’t hate any child, but finds little glory in the intolerant.
Carol Ryan
Ohio
quoting you: “first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?”
=====
Considering that you should have ended that question with an “I” and not a “me”, I think I can safely say that I probably could teach English as well as you could, if not better than you could.
Oh, my gosh. I read this, hoping to see some concrete arguments against homeschooling, and all I got was nonsense.
The majority of your reasons are stereotypical and shallow, such as ”homeschooled kids are geeky”. Um, who cares about the nerd-status of a child? Do all children need to be conformed to a certain status quo? No way. And your number ten reason–what’s the big deal if someone makes fun of these children? I mean, if a person can’t stand up to a little bit of teasing, then he/she is going to have a rough life. People are going to make fun of you for many reasons, homeschooling being only one of them. You can’t tell someone not to be homeschooled because he/she will be mocked. Homeschooling parents are not arrogant all the time. I’m sure there are some because there are all kinds of people on this planet, but I know quite a few of these parents, and they are very sweet and caring. And in regards to being socially inept, it is true that many homeschooled students have social issues. But not all do. And many students in school also have social problems.
Okay, and the last thing I want to discuss–the reason dealing with dependence upon wealthy peers. This one actually made me laugh, I have to admit. First of all, not all homeschooled students come from wealthy, upper-class families. I know several who do not. Secondly, poor people do not necessarily have less literate parents, and even if they do, why the hell would these students rely on “wealthier peers”? Students need to rely on themselves and their teachers to get through school, not other students. In fact, my family is little money and receives some necessary welfare benefits, and all of us are very smart students. I personally receive straight A’s and B’s, and I am academically able because of potential learning traits I possess. The process of learning has nothing to do with your parents or your wealth.
In conclusion, I certainly do not agree with your reasoning against homeschooling, and I hope you do not remain so close-minded about the topic.
OK, another funny thing, which Silverchelle almost brings out–first, we are not to homeschool, because our kids might be teased. Then, in a comment response, maybe we as parents weren’t teased enough?
Logical consistency, at least, would argue that if the latter is a deficiency, the former must be a good thing?
Wow, this was a pretty poor argument. I would like to just touch on a few points — so many have already done a wonderful job pointing out some of the fallacies here. In random order:
#5 — Since there are many teachers who either currently or have at some point homeschooled their own children, while continuing in the profession, well — I do think that says something. Feel free to interpret it as you wish.
However, as a teacher, I think you have a false fear for your profession. There will always be a need for quality teachers. Public schools will never completely vanish — there will be a need for them. There are some people who should not homeschool (for a number of possible reasons) or cannot, and they will continue to need some educational system.
Yet, even if ALL parents opted to homeschool their children, there would be a continuing need for good teachers. Homeschoolers have often “outsourced” various bits of their child’s education, both in the community with classes developed by teachers sensitive to the unique needs and goals of the group, and online. I chose to use an online resource for my writing-reluctant son, something that was of great help. Far better than if he had been in a classroom with a number of disenfranchised students. It gave him the help to be able to write a reasonably decent essay for his SAT, certainly more than adequate for his needs.
10. Yes, my son is a geek. He would be regardless of how he was educated. He was a geek-in-training all the years before we began homeschooling him when he was 10.5. He is a current geek in college.
But he is a socialable geek. Gets along with a wide variety of people. Although his major in college is computer science, he takes, for fun, French, he hangs out with people who play guitar, or kick a hackysack around, or — okay, this one’s geeky — solve twisty puzzles. (Think Rubik’s cube. Only with a wider variety.)
And — get this. Even though I officially graduated him last year, he is still teaching himself at home. Not academic things, but things he is interested in. The guitar I mentioned? Self-taught — though a music major with guitar emphasis friend of his has given him some pointers. Those twisty puzzles? He has taught himself to use a CAD program to design an entirely new mechanism for one that he later intends to build. And to fund that? He makes chainmaille footbags (hackysacks) for a local buisiness who had lost his supplier, and remembered that my son made chainmaille as a hobby. A hobby learned because he homeschooled, btw.
This is a boy who, during his time in public school, was bullied. Was odd-man out. He was bored, literally out of his mind. He took constant mental vacations. It took my YEARS to undo the damage, to guide him to stop letting his mind wander, a behavior he learned out of boredom in the classroom.
I didn’t teach him to read. But neither did the schools. He figured it out, just from being read to, before he was 4.
8. Selfish, huh? So, the reason I ran all over creation to meet my son’s educational, social and emotional needs was because I’m selfish. Wow. And the others I know who homeschool out of sheer, unadulterated desparation because their children were not learning in school, or had health issues, or were emotionally battered at school, they are terribly selfish, too, right?
And as far as income goes — remember, most homeschoolers are single-income families. Many have challenging children — often a reason a parent will begin homeschooling. So these are the children that would actually cost the state MORE to educate than the “average” child.
I’ve known dirt poor homeschoolers, and middle income homeschoolers. Occasionally well-off ones, but those were far fewer in my experience.
4. could breed intolerance or racism — hm… that could be said of anything.
But let’s look at some facts, not speculation. I have homeschooled my son in 3 different states. The last one is as lily-white, fundamentalist as you can imagine. And yes, there are many fundamentalist homeschoolers, too. But — if my son were in the public schools here (and he is of an age that, had we followed the public school schedule of when he should start K and graduate from high school, he would still be in high school), he would likely be in an all white class, of most if not all Christians. (He’s agnostic.) Instead, he has a WIDE variety of friends, different races, different religions (from Buddhist to Jewish, to Christian to atheist and pagan.)
He did, for a couple classes, attend a local charter for some AP classes — geeky ones, with other geeky kids, all of whom were public school students other than my son. He fit in just fine, had a reasonably good time with them, learned well. Just the pace wasn’t great for him — he needed more.
2. Gamble? Why would I gamble on the public school meeting his needs? When we first enrolled him in public school, for 2nd grade (he had been in private before that to get around the age cut-off — he showed every kindergarten readiness trait, but was denied a public education at that time), we were told that he would be given reading at his level.
7. Let’s see — you, a self-proclaimed agnostic, make a RELIGIOUS argument against homeschooling? Very silly. Said by a former homeschooling agnostic, who homeschooled for academic reasons.
We were lied to. When we realized that he was inutterably bored in school, that his attitude towards school had gone from loving it to hating it, that his favorite class went from math to PE, art and music (all fine subjects, but shouldn’t be the only area in which a child is learning every day!), we realized there was a problem. We debated keeping him there and trying to work within the system — and risking him losing even more educational time — or pulling him and putting him back in the little private school that at least tried to accommodate his needs, we opted to pull him.
So that may be selfish — but since we weren’t then homeschooling, perhaps you would have accepted that decision. But the gamble — that would have been the case, had we opted to keep him in the public school system.
Rather than call these your top ten reasons you, perhaps, should have called them your top ten unsubstantiated opinions. Just a thought.
I graduated as valedictorian from my public high school and graduated cum laude, in three years, from my public state university. If I’m not qualified to teach my kids how does that reflect on the education I received?
I do believe my kids are getting a better education than I did. Check out the rigorous curriculum suggestions of Well-Trained Mind, Ambleside Online, Sonlight and Tapestry of Grace. Those are impressive standards and popular with homeschoolers.
I hope none of your kids ever wants a career in medicine or any other field involving biology — which of course is rejected by most Christian-based homeschooling as it backs (gasp!) evolution.
Nothing like a little ignorance, LOL. All Christian homeschoolers that I know teach biology. *Of course,* maybe you are more knowledgable about what Christian homeschoolers are teaching- you, at least, present the arrogant air of *knowing it all.*
Because, of course, there aren’t ANY doctors, scientists, botanists, etc. that are Christians.
FYI – Many 7th day Adventists (who are Christians) become doctors, and serve the military often in a non-combative role.
Really? I taught my first grader animal classification last year, using correct terminology. I don’t think that’s covered in as much depth in public school. This year, we studied astronomy. Next year, anatomy. The following year, botany. I’d say that’s pretty good biology for elementary school. We don’t hide from evolution either.
And where does CB claim he’s a creationist? I must have missed that.
Wow, so much to respond to. I only have 30 minutes before I have to meet someone for a walk, but we’ll see how far I can get.
10. “You were totally home schooled” is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm (whether or not the offender was home schooled or not). And… say what you will… but it doesn’t feel nice to be considered an outsider, a natural outcropping of being homeschooled.
I’ve not heard our son mention this kind of “insult” being tossed his way, but will note that there is a difference between being “an outsider” and having your own background and mature people accept and learn from others with different backgrounds. The rest merely need some time to grow up.
9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope).
Okay, you’re oldf-fashioned (you asked me to call you that, and I can aim to please on this one).
As for modern society calling a learning-focused place to study schools, I have two comments. One, I’ve yet to hear of any American school that doesn’t assign HOMEwork, so clearly, even schools feel homes are places to learn/focus/study. Two, what is modern changes, as centuries ago, more people learned via homeschooling than going to a building outside of the home to learn with a bunch of people around their same age. Since homeschooling is gaining in popularity, it appears the “modern” trend is back to what was “old-fashioned” – learning at home.
8. Homeschooling is selfish.
So is my not opening my house up to the homeless. When was the last time you invited a homeless person to sleep at your home? Have you ever shared your home-cooked meal (or even left-overs from home) with the homeless? Have you donated a kidney to someone in need? No? How very selfish as you only need one, you know! I am far more concerned about being good to family first and community second. I will not risk my own family member’s education, health, safety, etc. so those who have less can have more. Once you’ve donated one kidney from each of your children to others who need a transplant, get back to me and we can chat some more.
7. God hates homeschooling. (Personally I’m agnostic, but I’m just saying…)
I’m agnostic, too. I’m just saying – as the above complaint again matters not to me as I’m not so sure anyone can really know if there truly is a God let alone His/Her hates and loves. But I love that people are allowed to believe what helps them live happier lives so long as they aren’t killing people and such over their beliefs.
6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles.
Gee, complaining about an entire GROUP isn’t arrogant or lunacy at all, I guess, and having a laundry list of qualifications in attempt to show how you are better than everyone else in a group isn’t at all arrogant, huh?
So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me, and biology as well as a trained professional, and history… and Spanish… and art… and counsel for college as well as a school’s guidance counselor… and… and…
You really do miss the big picture. The best “education” is one that allows for the student to learn on one’s own as well as select their own “teachers” to learn specifics from. Our son applied to our state U at 8 and was accepted (though we didn’t allow him to start till 9) and despite his having had no formal math work beyond algebra I, he still placed into calculus and was one of the top students in the class at age 9. He also lacked the pre-requisites of a year of high school bio and a year of high school chem for the pre-med intro bio (at the U with more students in Harvard’s Medical School first year than any other college in the world other than Harvard itself), but the professor invited him to take the class based on his verbal SAT score at age 8 (which was higher than most college bound high school seniors) and his overall score for the course was in the 99th percentile in his section where over 300 students had registered (and he scored higher than any of the students in the other section with another 200+ students), and this was with his only bubble test experience prior being an SAT. He took more English, foreign languages, humanities, social sciences, etc. than needed for his dual degree (in CS and math) and never got anything less than an A in any of those areas (and this includes upper level honors courses). He earned his undergraduate degrees with all sorts of honors (including Phi Beta Kappa) and has since earned an M.S. from MIT at age 16 with a 5.0/5.0 GPA, so I think he learned his basics rather well here at home. He’s also had his essays published in a best selling book each of the last three years, as well as having a research article published (which he presented in Bristol, England) in a tech book . In addition, he has taken part in all sorts of activities in his still rather short life span of 17 years (won $ in a comedy contest on campus and in a statewide business plan contest for undergraduates and graduate students while in undergraduate school, won a geography contest for graduate students at MIT, won a couple cash awards for volunteer work at his graduate dorm, played open mike nights, sung in an a cappella group, gave handchime performances, sold over $8 of his photography and fractal art to raise money for his study abroad programs (he has been to over 30 countries and had study abroad programs in about a dozen countries), and I could go on if I didn’t have this walk to get to in a minute, but trust me, if you want to start comparing your students or your resume to that of homeschoolers (not just my son, but homeschoolers in general), I think you will regret the comparison. For one, homeschoolers don’t drain society’s resources by collecting welfare, needing mental health services, teen pregnancies services, juvenile detention services, etc. at anywhere near the rate of traditionally schooled children.
5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)
Yes, clearly, just as people who knock homeschooling kind of piss me off.
4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Unless the student is being homeschooled at the MTV Real World house, there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room. How can a young person learn to appreciate other cultures if he or she doesn’t live among them?
Because they indeed LIVE among them, not just with people from their own “hood” at school. Our son read to inner city youth (though living in the burbs), delivered food to the homeless, visited sick children in the hospital and volunteered weekly at a local retirement home from ages 7 to 14. He has volunteered in over 100 ways, which has resulted in his being nominated and winning national and international volunteer awards, though he has never volunteered in order to satisfy any school requirement or win anything.
3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.
This one cracks me up the most. This why our son has more compliments about his social skills than on his academic or intellectual accomplishments, right? I won’t even laundry list his social life activities and such, but this is another thing that is lame – to think that it would be superior somehow to force someone to socialize with only people from their own neighborhood and about their own age for most of the day 5 days of the week would give nearly as good a social skills background as socializing in more diverse environments each and year year.
2. Homeschooling parents are arrogant, Part 2. According to Henry Cate, who runs the Why Homeschool blog, many highly educated, high-income parents are “probably people who are a little bit more comfortable in taking risks” in choosing a college or line of work. “The attributes that facilitate that might also facilitate them being more comfortable with home-schooling.”
More comfortable taking risks with their child’s education? Gamble on, I don’t know, the Superbowl, not your child’s future.
I think the gamble is more an educated guess on what is best as I researched the topic rather heavily before “placing my bet” here. Sorry for typos – have to go and don’t have time to edit.
1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.
*** Please see the comments for thoughts on the word ‘geeky.’ But, in general, to be geeky connotes a certain inability to integrate and communicate in diverse social situations. Which, I would argue, is a likely result of being educated in an environment without peers. It’s hard to get by in such a diverse world as ours! And the more people you can hang out with the more likely you are to succeed, both in work life and real life.
Homeschooling is only as good as the parents doing it. The best homeschooling parents are, ironically, those who were teachers themselves or whose own parents were teachers.
All too often, homeschooling results in kids who are not only unsocialized, but illiterate as well. Daniel Hauser, the boy with Hodgkin’s lymphoma, was found to be unable to read, much less to understand why chemotherapy was essential to his survival.
How do you judge “best homeschooling parents?” What are your criteria? One sensationalized, sad situation does not directly relate to all homeschooling situations (and whether homeschooling played a role is itself questionable). It’s like saying p.s. is bad because the majority of schools are like Columbine. Illogical, unfortunate, and to be quite honest, a bit dangerous.
So what? A local middle school teacher just got arrested for having sexual relations with a 13 – year old. Does that mean most school teachers are sexual predators?
You can’t use anecdotal evidence as a characterization for a whole group.
The studies don’t support you, nor the fact that universities are actively recruiting home schooled students, nor the fact that the SATs of home schoolers are graded separately because they consistently score higher and skew the data when scored together with the institution-schooled graduates tests.
You have contact with *how many* homeschoolers on a daily basis? Or or you just pulling this out of thin air? Read any studies that show that homeschoolers are lacking? I doubt any exist- if they did, the NEA would be shouting it from the rooftops. But, if you would care for some interesting reading, go to the SAT and ACT sites and look at their test scores for the last few years. Every year that I looked at showed that homeschoolers score higher than their public schooled counter-parts.
And the little boy with lymphoma- he had a documented learning disability that affected his ability to read. I do not, in any way, agree with his parents withholding treatment, but if we are going to judge, let’s do so on facts.
This is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand, but since it has been brought up, and I can relate from personal experience, I will add my comment. I am the mother of a pediatric cancer survivor. My 7yo daughter was diagnosed with Neuroblastoma (an extremely aggressive cancer) when she was 5. As a result of our own journey, I have crossed paths with countless other pediatric cancer families. I have known several parents who have decided to forego or stop treatment for one reason or the other. I have known a few teenagers who have told their doctors and their parents, “I’ve had enough. Let me die with dignity.” Until you have walked this road, you cannot ever understand what it is like, and you will never be able to judge the decisions made by cancer parents and cancer patients. It would serve everyone well, if everyone would leave the medical decisions of this family and others like them, to the parents of Daniel and his medical team, and mind your own damn business.
When my daughter was fighting her own battle, and we were faced with countless decisions that no parent should ever have to make, we had complete strangers calling and emailing us with their advice or to tell us about this wonderful new herb they had heard about (or most often, were selling). The medical decisions parents make for their children are nobody’s business but their own. Like I said, you cannot understand until you have walked this road, so mind your own damn business.
Actually, being a teacher is a handicap to successful homeschooling, as many teachers who start homeschooling their own children have discovered.
Phoenix Woman, you are a bigot. Plain and simple. If you were to replace the word “homeschooling” with “being black” in your sentence “All too often, homeschooling [being black] results in kids who are not only unsocialized, but illiterate as well”, it would be more evident. You are a bigot, plain and simple.
“The best homeschooling parents are, ironically, those who were teachers themselves”
So, if the public schools are so great, why are those teachers choosing to homeschool their children? Wouldn’t the teachers know best where to get the best education for their children?
I have to say I became much more interested in homeschooling when I found out that my sons’ teachers didn’t have their own kids in public school.
“All too often?”
Less often than the public schools leave kids illiterate.
And there are very few teens who can understand chemotherapy. Few adults, in fact.
I went to a private Kindergarten and through 12 years of public schooling that did nothing at all to help me socially, unless you count making me fear and hate my classmates as “socialization”.
This is one of the most predjudiced, assinine articles against homeschoolers that I have ever read. All I can say is that if you are an example of a public school teacher, I am elated that my children did not have to sit in your classroom. I don’t know if your points were meant to be funny, but I found them pathetic. There was not a serious objection among them. Is this supposed to be satire like the “Onion”? You fall far short. It is neither serious discourse or humor–so what is it?
sir, you really can’t be as foolish as this article you composed made you sound, can you? If someone were to write such a complimentary commentary on public schools, I’d have to guess you’d be one of the first to cry foul! I must say that as an adoptive parent of 4 human children that have more melanin that I do, and knowing many other home educating families that are in a similar situation, I find the statement you made about homeschoolers being racist particularly idiotic!
Julia–
If you would like a thoroughly researched and well-written look at how one of the nation’s “top” school systems is currently failing gifted children/accelerated learners, I suggest you visit Switched on Mom’s blog, The More Child. (http://themorechild.com/) My sister and niece are experiencing similar difficulties across the river in one of Northern Virginia’s “prestigious” school systems. I’ve done my homework where we live and can honestly say that I have no confidence in our local school system’s ability to accomodate my children’s needs either.
As far as the original post, I can’t be bothered to comment except to say that I think the author actually very effectively did the opposite of the title of this post and made a excellent case for keeping our children out of institutional schools.
ROTFL! This couldn’t have been written by a teacher. Somebody tell me that this level of stupidity is NOT teaching in our schools please.
If she is indeed a teacher…her comments are reason enough to homeschool. She is clearly a moron.
Somebody needs to take away her computer AND teaching credential. Her obtuse observations make my eyes bleed. She is an embarrassment to the profession.
Homeschooling is anti-social?
Anyone who has any real knowledge and understanding knows homeschooling is very pro-social. I don’t have any children of my own but frequently work with both homeschooled children and public school children as a music teacher, and I see homeschool families frequently. The public school children do not come to me with their families while the homeschoolers almost always do – over the years I have decided this illuminates the whole situation. The homeschoolers among my students are – as a whole – much better socialized because they are indeed with their families instead of spending so much time in government institutions, no matter how well-operated, which some are. Of course, I have several well-socialized public school students as well – but comparing population to population, the homeschoolers are hands-down the kids I want to be around and that I see as operating more normally. (Have you ever noticed that Chik Fil A has outstanding help at a lot of their franchises? If you ask at one that has good service, you may find it is one of their restaurants that has focused on hiring homeschoolers because of their outstanding work ethic and social skills. I stumbled on this quite by accident when I complimented the staff at a restaurant near me).
Homeschooling may be the minority choice, but that does not make it at all anti-social in some kind of pathological way. Some choices people make are not popular but are better choices than the more popular choices. This is why we worry about peer pressure, isn’t it? It seems to me that in this case, the parents of schooled children are making the “peer pressured” choice of sending their kids to institutions, and they reinforce one another that this status quo is the norm, even in the face of evidence to the contrary. It is homeschoolers who are making the positive choice of standing up to peer pressure, not going along with the crowd to keep doing something that doesn’t work. On the other hand, my local school has about a 60% graduation rate and does not seem to be working well at all – it does not exactly seem to be churning out well-socialized adults ready for higher education or work, while without exception, each of my homeschooled music students has pursued higher education, a trade, or something entrepreneurial that they launched after careful preparation.
I think there is too much blind acceptance of homeschool stereotypes going on with the original post. I respect your right to have these impressions and to write about them, but I feel sorry that you do not seem to have real knowledge of the pro-social nature of homeschooling.
Wow… as a former K-6 schoolteacher, I found your biting commentary rather harsh. Have you ever met a homeschooling family? I taught for 15 years in the public schools, was a district mentor teacher, served on county/statewide committees to rewrite textbooks, got stellar awards and more. But, I am now a homeschooler and loving it. I have no idea where you are getting your info — but you are way off the mark. BTW, most homeschoolers are not rich (one income family — but both spouses are typically college educated in my experiences in CA & TX) and the kids seem to be quite well adjusted. I also have 3 of my former teaching colleages now homechooling their children.
You are the very reason my children aren’t in public school. Thank you for giving me yet more ammunition against public school teachers. Congratulations! (And, for an English major, you might want to check on your grammar. Ironically, you have a glaring grammar error in the very sentence you brag about being an English major!–Public school much?)
Mr. Scaccia:
I am posting this response to your article “The Case Against Homeschooling”. I have homeschooled my two daughters for the past 5 years. Previously my elder was in private school from kindergarten through the third grade, and the younger, kindergarten and first grade. My elder daughter flourished and was basically a straight A student, but the younger struggled.
After paying a hefty tuition for my younger, we then had to pay for a private tutor because in first grade we realized she couldn’t read. After an evaluation it was discovered that, because the school taught “ALL” children cursive writing on the first day of kindergarten, and then expected them to read the printed word, that she was confused and her brain was not making the connections and/or transitions. She is not “ALL” children, and all children do not learn the same way. I believe you mentioned in your article that you have experience with different learning styles. Have you discovered that all children learn the same? I highly doubt it.
After homeschooling her for 2nd grade and doing all the reading for her, and having her follow along, in the beginning of 3rd grade she began begging me to let her read. I gave her the time that she needed to catch up with herself academically. The school would have seen her as a failure and possibly held her back. She is smart and did all the same curriculum work that the private school used, she just needed a little extra time with reading. She is now finishing 6th grade and literally outreads some kids that are publicly educated. Homeschooling works for her.
My younger also struggled greatly with spelling. I did not push her. I figured with all the reading that she does, and some writing, eventually she will learn to spell hard words correctly. Half way through 6th grade she was in a group writing class in which they had spelling bee. My two daughters were the last two standing. Yes, she almost beat her older sister who is a phenomenal speller. I am so proud of her. Homeschooling works for her.
My younger also has severe neck and shoulder issues from a minor injury that causes writing to be very difficult for her. At home she is given the freedom to take as long as she needs to write something. She can lay down, she can take an Advil, she can dance…..whatever it takes for her to loosen up. She loves to write plays, skits and dramas, but she is not forced to write boring essays that stress her out. Homeschooling works for her.
I don’t even care if you choose not to read this lengthy post, I feel better just getting this information in print. However, I read your whole article!! You have made accusations against homeschoolers that are totally unfounded. What about all the “failure” stories of kids that go to public and/or private school? Yes, the system has failed many. Homeschooling may not be perfect all the time for everyone, but it does work for many. Have you bothered to research the many great men and women from history that were home educated? Where would our country be without them? There is a challenge for someone that is so highly educated as yourself: Do some research! Have you read the book “The Element” by Ken Robinson? Homeschooled kids are graduating and going on to college and doing just fine in our world.
As for your point in #10, my daughters are not geeks!!! Are you saying that the public education system never produces a geek? If you are, then once again you are wrong. I was one of those geeks in public school. In high school I had braces, glasses, curly hair that I could not control, and I am not a magazine beauty. My parents didn’t have money to buy me all the latest trends. Yes, I was a geek. I don’t remember being made fun of though, like what you are doing to home educated kids. Where is your tolerance and acceptance? They are people too. Because of my experience in high school I have made sure that my “home educated” daughters were trendy while still upholding my Christian standards for modesty and behavior. My daughters fit in just fine.
As for your point #9. Life is a classroom. My philosophy for homeschooling is that education will be part of your every day life for the rest of your life. Whatever we do as a family becomes a lesson in schooling. What is wrong with that? And by the way, my children don’t eat fruit loops. We do teach health and nutrition in our house. Very often when we are shopping (yep, they know how to grocery shop and do self check out all by themselves at 12 and 14) or cooking, or eating a meal, we are discussing nutrition and the human body. Did you ever do homework while having a snack? Do business people all over the world do work while eating a quick sandwich or having a cup of coffee? Have you ever graded papers while trying to eat? Our family gathers on the couch all the time to watch American Idol (hmmm, I think some of those trying out could be called geeks. Were they homeschooled?), but we also watch the Weather Channel, the History Channel, Mythbusters (science), Animal Planet (that my kids have watched since birth), and yes, the news. Our favorite is Fox and Friends and Glenn Beck. My 14 year old is falling in love with history and politics by watching the news. I never watched the news growing up because I didn’t have an interest. I make sure that my children are interested in what’s going on in the world.
Point #8. Selfish. Are you kidding? First of all, as far as being the parent I am anything but selfish. I run the house, I pay the bills, I prepare meals, I play taxicab driver, I am the nurse in the middle of the night, and I teach two different grades, all subjects for hours each day. It is downright exhausting and because of that, my family is always changing methods to find a new way that works for us.
Oh, and point #7. Have you spoken to God about this fact lately? Go read your Bible, but not during public school hours or you might get taken to court and lose your job. God blessed me with my children to raise and nurture and teach. I choose not to ship them off to be indoctrinated for 8 hours a day on things that we totally disagree with. God does not hate homeschooling, and I am certain he doesn’t hate public or private education either.
On point #6, sir, I am anything but arrogant. I have a high school education, ten years in law enforcement, and 1 ½ years working as a legal assistant. I am not stupid despite the fact that I did not choose to stay in college. Believe it or not, it wasn’t for me. My husband is a mechanical engineer and is able to contribute greatly to our daughters’ math and science education. I am the fun, free flowing, creative force in our school, he has all the brains. I have a never ending supply of resources at my disposal to educate my children. We use (in part) a “real” curriculum with a real teacher’s edition and everything, but the parts of their studies that they are really interested in come from actual books…not just textbooks. We have many public school teachers in our immediate family (none of whom have ever ripped us apart for homeschooling — on the contrary they are very supportive of our efforts and they see the fruit of our labor). I am the first to tell my kids that I don’t know everything, but we can find the answer. Do you, sir, know the answer to everything? We have had five successful years of me, a humble housewife with a high school education, teaching our children. I don’t need a public school guidance counselor counseling my child either. I will give the advice that I want my children to have from a Biblical, Christian, motherly viewpoint. I don’t agree with some of the things being taught in public schools, so why would I want a public counselor telling my daughter what is right or wrong or giving her advice? No thanks. We also defer to highly educated family members for their opinions and viewpoints. We may not always agree, but they have a vested interest in our family and children, a guidance counselor does not. Can you teach Godliness and a life of morality and values to my daughters like I can? I think NOT!!!!!!!
Regarding point #5, I kind of feel the same way about your article, but I choose to use other words than profanity to articulate my feelings.
Point #4. Intolerant? You mean the way you are concerning home educated kids? Nope, we are not intolerant. Most of their friends go to pubic and private schools. These kids are at our house all the time and we love them like they are our own. We go to a multi-racial church, in which we are the only homeschooling family. However, there are public school kids and private school kids that attend our church. So again, we are not intolerant. If you are referring to sin: the Bible says to hate the sin, not the sinner. We are called to be a light in a dark world. Called to love people to repentance and a relationship with Jesus. Yes, sin is sin, and sin is wrong and we do not condone it, but we love the people. And yes, my opinions come from the standards of God’s Word.
On point #3, my children are totally prepared to be in society, and they do actively function in society. They do NOT participate in public school activities, only because they are not interested. They have, however, played numerous seasons on a soccer team, shadowed a veterinarian at our local animal hospital, volunteer at a pet store twice a month to help with pet adoptions, and our family is involved with a local charity at Christmas time to ensure that struggling families have gifts under the tree for their kids. They go to the mall and movies with their friends, they order drinks at Starbucks and restraunts all by themselves, and even walk around our great town with friends. Correct me if I am wrong but these are all occurring in society. People love my homeschooled daughers. They are active on a dance team at our church, and are currently pursuing drama in our church. One has competed in dance, singing and drama in front of judges and has won awards.
Point #2…..arrogant part 2? Did you run out of outrageous accusations?
And finally we get to point #1. You have got to be kidding me. I dare you to pick my family out of a crowd and nail us as homeschoolers. We don’t look any different than anyone else. And why do you have to pick on people’s “appearances”? Does that really matter? I have a picture in my mind of what a “geek” might look like, but I don’t try to call them on the carpet publicly. Without being specific: some scientists are rather geeky, I have seen some geeky teachers, I have seen some geeky public school kids, and yup, some geeky homeschoolers too. You are insinuating that all homeschoolers are geeks. Get out from under your rock and wake up and smell the coffee. You have a problem.
Now for my closing statements:
1. Most people that are just meeting us are shocked to find out that we are homeschoolers. We must look rather normal.
2. In this country I have the right to educate my children at home in the best way I see fit. I am their mother and I care more about their education and upbringing than the likes of you.
3. Are you sitting down? This one is shocking! My main goal is to give my daughters the best education that I can. If they choose to go to college, I will support them. However, if they choose not to, I will support them. It is more important to me that I raise Godly young women for the next generation than raising a rocket scientist. If they choose the life I have chosen — wife and stay at home mom — I will be more proud of them than if they became the first female president of the United States.
4. I think your article is offensive, and yes, hateful, judgemental, intolerant and arrogant. I am glad that they don’t have to sit in your classroom.
5. For the record…….I know that there are many public and private school teachers out there that are amazing. Thank you for all that you do to pour into the lives of these children. You give so much and get so little in return. Kudos to you, the excellent ones. As in all areas of life, there is always one that gives a bad name to the bunch. Mr. Scaccia, you are one of them.
I clicked on this link thinking I would read a well thought out, well written, insightful bit of anti-homeschooling rhetoric that might challenge my views.
What I got instead was so laughingly absurd I almost didn’t comment.
Shame on you! Degree in journalism? Perhaps a bit more fact checking, research, and digging on your part? Do you even know any real life home schooling families?
I don’t feel the need to defend myself or my decisions as my children are thriving and happy. I do hope that you take the time to really get to know some of the amazing home school families in America. The ridicule does nothing to benefit our children. I am delighted that they are not (and will not be) sitting in your class learning how to be narrow minded and petty.
Phoenixwoman, homeschoolers DO go to med school. And plenty accept evolution, learn and teach it and defend it to Creationists Google “evolution homeschool”. It may even lead you to the homeschooling wiki for homeschool evolutionists.
It is too bad that people unthinkingly accept stereotypes rather than researching things they wish to express strong opinions about. Inclusive homeschoolers are of many faiths and/or are aetheist, agnostic or humanist. They are of all political stripes, study real science, have tolerance for differing backgrounds. As in the red state/blue state divide, they probably make up 50% of all homeschoolers.
And, just in my small circle, I know one homeschooler in med school and one physician. One of my homeschool friend’s daughters jokes she’s going to get her “PhD without her GED” – and without a high school diploma from a public school. She’s very nearly finished that PhD and picked up her R.N. along the way. By the way, stunningly, she was “unschooled” through her entire K-12 educational career – google that and have your schooly socks entirely blown off.
Don’t confuse education with school!
And don’t confuse stereotypes with reality!
Very good post. But as for your second to last sentence, I think it would be better said, “Don’t confuse school with education”, given the very sorry statistics on the graduates our public schools are spitting out.
10. “You were totally home schooled” is an …………..
10A – Home-schooled kids do not have peer pressure, by the time they get to Uni they could give a fig about what the product of the mind-controlling system flushes out after their final year. You see, home schooled kids are taught about moral turpitude and don’t resort to the feeble uneducated level of bullying that the average institute schooled kids do. They understand that life is sacred and what’s more their minds are not the products of their so called peers.
9. Call me old-fashioned………………..
9A – Where did you get the idea that homeschooled kids had to sit between the dregs of last nights supper and this mornings breakfast? Yes, you are not only old fashioned but also misinformed.
8. Homeschooling is selfish……………
8A – You contradict yourself here. It is not up to our so-called more affluent and educated kids too take up the slack for those less fortunate and educated. The apparent richer and higher achieving classmates are a myth in the dumbed down schools. You do realize that the schools are the festering pits of non achievement and are designed to be that way?
7. God hates homeschooling…………
7A – God? I beg your pardon? Is this the same god in whose name innocent people are being murdered even as I type this? Is this the same god you put your trust in on your coinage in America? But of course, money is your god isn’t it? The biggest evil! My dear. A lot of people are beginning to wake up and realize that this so-called god that man made in his image is merely a tool of division.
6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are ………………
6A – I think you are talking about the so-called “Christian” home schools here. And I couldn’t agree more. If indeed you mean the normal parent schooler, then they are merely a reflection on their bigoted religion and this is to be expected.
5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)
5A – As a teacher your ignorance really frightens me. If I was your pupil I would have really pissed you off. You too are a product of the government manipulation perpetrating the soulless sausage machine. Ensuring that you pump out as many “consumers” as possible. Don’t ask question Johnny, just do what the text book says. There is no such thing as over unity Johnny, where did you read that crap etc etc etc
4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance………………….
4A – I get the distinct feeling that you are American, they lock people up without trial, without evidence because “they MIGHT’ be a danger. What a sick sick situation, what a sick sick mind. Remember my dear, not all people are bigots and mutual love and respect is the keystone to a lot of the homeschoolers.
3. And don’t give me …………..
3A – Ah, more worrying about being competitive, must be better at running, must win at the hoop, whatever. This is another cancer that divides people. We are pitted against each other rather than being taught how to be the helping hand, how to put others first. Competition is directly against every tenant of spirituality and don’t get on your high horse and confuse spirituality with religion. They are at opposite ends of the spectrum.
2. Homeschooling parents are ………..
2A – You keep quoting these people, do you really have an original thought in that manipulated head of yours? Really, when last did you do something original? Hmmm? Oh yes, let me reming you that it is the risk takers that have shaped this world, not those who have conformed to the will of government sponsored clap trap. What do they say, those that can’t do teach?
1. And finally…
1A – You are a teacher? Really? Thank Christ (whoever he is) that my kids don’t have you looking after tem, you by your own words are the personification of why we home school. You spew out all this crap you read in blogs and government controlled journals and you believe it!!! You scare the shit out of me. Not as a person but as a symptom of what is happening in so-called education.
*** Please see the comments for thoughts on the word ‘geeky.’
***A – Let me enlighten you dear teacher. My kids have been homeschooled because of the nature of my work. They probably more than any other have led a rather secluded life and this worried me tremendously. Guess what. These kids are incredible, they interact with adults, old and young. They are exemplary young men and incredibly self confident.
One last note, ……………..
Why? Because you can’t hold your own?
I am a homeschooling mother of two elementary-aged daughters and I have a few points to address.
First, I was a public school student for my entire K-12 education. While I had a few excellent teachers, the vast majority made no impact on my life whatsoever. I was a “gifted”track student and was pushed into some classes, namely math, because I excelled in most other areas. My math education was allowed to slide through even though I never really understood the concepts. For my homeschooled children, I can work at their speed. If they do not understand a concept, I can work at it until they do. Schools cannot do that as they have too many children to accomodate.
I am not arrogant enough to believe that I can teach my children everything they need to know. I am however smart enough to get help. My science minded child takes science classes at the local science museum, which by the way, has many more resources at its disposal than even the most equipped public school.
One of the best benefits of homeschooling for us, is that I have two students to worry about. I am not burdened by overwhelming teacher-student ratios.
In high school, I graduated 9th in my class of 236 students (which by the way had no diversity, my class was 99 % white). What I learned in social skills had more to do with how many wine coolers I could consume before passing out and how far I could push the sexual envelope without getting pregnant. If it is selfish to keep my daughters from those influences, then I am happily guilty of being selfish. In my experience in the community, the homeschooled children function far better than their public school counterparts, if they are given the tools to do so. Some parents do not give those opportunities, but they are the minority.
Finally, as to the question of whether I want my children to be a citizen of the home vs the world, I fully believe that to be a good citizen of the world, you need to start with being a good citizen of your home. There is no better place to learn how to respect other people and for conflict resolution than your home. Perhaps if more people learned to be better citizens of their own homes, society would not be facing some of the problems in this area that they are.
I urge everyone to educate themselves fully about homeschooling before making such blanket statements about the perceived evils therein. While homeschoolers “piss you off”, ignorant condemnation of the choices I have made for my family piss me off.
You fail to recognize that most homeschool children aren’t taught. They do all the work themselves. You can’t teach anyone anything they don’t want to learn. If a child is interested, they teach themselves. They teach themselves to be expert on what they have a great deal of interest in without anyone “teaching” them. I homeschool grandchildren. Some things they do greatly, others not so well. But when they have an interest, you can’t stop them from learning.
They are not “imprisoned” in a classroom with peers who demonstrate their boredom, wasting their time in classes they don’t want to take. They read everyday, good things, on their own, and with me. They have an active social life with a group of homeschoolers of varying ages, so they aren’t ONLY interacting with kids their own age, and unaccepting of younger, unaccepted by older. Their socialization is actually much better. They can communicate with adults.
You couldn’t “teach” them anything they didn’t willingly learn. That’s one of the most wide spread myths about education. It comes from the student, not a teacher. A good teacher is just a guide, and provides encouragement. Helps them to correct facts, and communicate clearly.
Public school children I know haven’t got these skills. One wonders why.
I’m a geek, and I went to public school, k-12. My husband is a geek, and he went to public school, k-12. All those months and years of real socialization taught us that we were outcasts, and to be laughed at.
Public school will save our kids from geekiness? Somehow, I think the odds are against it. We should put our genetically-likely-to-be-geeky kids in that same situation to be socialized as we were? Gosh, that sounds like a great idea!
Or, you know … not.
Unbelievable. This IS a parody, correct?
If it isn’t , then thank you for making such an eloquent case FOR homeschooling. There’s a fine line between ignorance and arrogance, and I do believe you’ve done a good job of erasing it. Thank God that my kids never had to encounter such elitism as you display here. Thank God my wife and I took advantage of a classical education – hard to come by these days outside of home-schooling venues. Thank God our kids received the same sort of education that we did despite the Marxist, multi-cultural garbage that comprises the bulk of today’s public education curriculae. Thank God they had parents who took them through the classics and taught them to value literacy, the ability to communicate clearly and effectively and to stand up for their beliefs and convictions – and without apology.
And finally, thank God our kids grew up to philosophers, warriors, patriots and spiritually sovereign individuals – just like their parents. No thanks to people like you.
My son has the following individuals teaching him:
BA Fine Arts
BS Nuclear Engineering
MS Nuclear Engineering
MS Mathematical Finance
Cleveland Museum of Art, Editor (former)
Montessori Teacher (former)
Montessori School Owner (former)
He also doesn’t have the spend the better part of the day with other people’s F’Ups.
One last note, my father said I would be horrified when I went to college and met the people going to college to learn how to teach him. He was right. I don’t know how many times I had to explain fractions to ElEd students.
Dear Sir,
My name is Hannah. I am 14 years old and about to enter 9th grade. I am one of the (as you put it) “geeks” although most people are very shocked to learn that I am a homeschooled child. I have been homeschooled for 5 years and personally I wouldn’t want to sit under your teaching. You (not to mention many other public school teachers…just talk to my friends) are the reason I choose not to go to school. I am not being constrained in any way. I was given the choice from my parents to either go to school or to continue to be homeschooled. As I stated before, teachers like you are the reason I choose not to enter a public school system.
I go to a church with many races of people and I love them all. I am not racist in any sense of the word, and neither are any of the other members of my family.
Now, back to the “geek” subject: One of the reasons people are shocked to find out that I am homeschooled is because my friends have told me that I dress better than some of the people in the public schools that they attend, I also dress myself to God’s standards, unlike many public school students. I do NOT believe that God is against homeschooling, nor is He against any other form of schooling or people — God loves everyone. Homeschoolers can spread his word as well as any one else.
Did you know that the following Presidents were homeschooled?
George Washington
Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
John Quincy Adams
Abraham Lincoln
William Henry Harrison and
Theodore F. Roosevelt
Would you have the nerve to tell them that they were geeks? I suggest you do your research on the so called “geeks” of history that — in my opinion — did MORE than succeed.
Hannah,
Thank you for writing. You’re obviously being educated well.
I’m wondering, do you get a chance to interact much with people not part of your faith?
What do you think would happen if you were in my classroom? What do you think you know about me other than this one article?
JS
You would attempt to teach her that she is bigoted for being a Christian and that only your beliefs are tolerant and everyone else’s is intolerant and that she should have no tolerance for “intolerance.”
I think I’ve summed it up, yes?
As for the faith part…
What do you think she’s doing now? Are you REALLY that clueless? If she were being sheltered, how is it that she’s posting in response to your views?
10. Only an idiot is concerned with the criticism of other idiots.
9. Too silly to respond to.
8. I’m not interested in bringing my children down to the level of whatever is lowest in your classroom. Perhaps if teacher’s unions insisted on teacher testing to a level above d-grade highschool literacy, what’s in the average classroom might be sufficient.
7. Yeah, I’ll believe you’re concerned about my faithful children setting an example. Is this satire or are you serious?
6. Given the current state of what passes for college education in this country, all of your degrees mean NOTHING to me and this piece demonstrates that they never taught you critical thinking. I’ll take somebody without your worthless degrees who is capable of an original thought over a brainwashed-drone Marxist-bot-Taliban of Ward Churchill any day.
5. Yeah, nice union mentality. When Taxxachusetts insisted on testing teachers, the union threw a fit because numerous members of theirs couldn’t pass a test – when allowed to take it repeatedly – that I could pass without any preparation. “Oh, but she’s a great teacher!” whined the union reps. Thanks, no thanks.
4. Yeah, multi-culturalism. Like I want my kids to be exposed to the worst aspects of society that people like you are so tolerant of. Maybe if they “axe” the right question of the LBGT freak show facilitator, they’ll learn something. (Shakes head)
3. “Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially” – you mean un-brainwashed.
2. Homeschooling is gambling. Yeah, right. Public schooling is a sure thing. Mediocre – AT BEST.
1. Geeky? This would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
You and your pathetic, self-righteous, pseudo-intellectual arrogance are the reason I wouldn’t send my kids to one of your multi-cultural, Marxist cesspools.
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read! I thank my fellow homeschoolers for taking the time to send a rebuttal. I graduated from high school, have a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree in nursing yet my family has chosen to live off one income (<$50,000)so I can be "selfish" and keep my kids at home to learn. I work far harder at home than I ever did as a nurse and I spent 15+ years as an ICU nurse! The whole article would be funny if it weren't so pathetic.
This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read! I thank my fellow homeschoolers for taking the time to send a rebuttal. I graduated from high school, have a bachelor’s degree and a master’s degree in nursing yet my family has chosen to live off one income (<$50,000)so I can be "selfish" and keep my kids at home. I work far harder at home than I ever did as a nurse and I spent 15 years as an ICU nurse! The whole thing would be funny if it were not so pathetic.
amendment to item #6
6. Homeschooling parent….
6A – Do you really have a degree? You can be honest now, please let me know where you bought it, I need a few myself but I need a better quality one than you purchased, yours sucks.
As someone pointed out, in the very paragraph you sing your own praises about your proficiency, you make the biggest grammatical errors.
Not only can we do a better job than you in English, but we do a better job in all the languages our kids take, and in music to boot. They are all highly skilled musicians and writes, as you will see when I get my son to answer this blog for himself. Yes, my geeky useless freak of a home-schooled son.
You ask, “So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?”
Apparently. At least I’m aware that the correct way to write that sentence would be with “I” rather than “me”. Also, there should be a “do” before the first use of the word you.
If the other teachers my children would have encountered in public school have as little expertise in their subject areas, public education is in a sad situation, indeed.
Additionally, your ignorance about socialization and homeschooling is appalling. Before I began homeschooling, I was a public school teacher, and the brightest, most accomplished student I ever taught was a girl who had been homeschooled until entering public school at the age of thirteen. Much to the chagrin of the many faculty members who prophesied doom, she was almost immediately one of the most popular girls in our school and remained so. In fact, most of the homeschooled students I’ve known who’ve entered public school, generally for high school, have done extremely well academically and won the respect and admiration of their peers.
Having taught in public schools for many years, I know that there’s no magic conferred by a degree in education, and now, having homeschooled for many years, I’ve discovered that most parents are far better teachers of their children than we so-called professionals are.
Wow there is no way I would allow such a closed-minded bigot near my children. Thank you for affirming our decision to homeschool.
Here’s one good reason TO homeschool:
Not having my children taught by the kind of people who author (honestly) such uninformed drivel.
I don’t know why I’m wasting my time replying to ANY of this, but here goes on a few points, at least:
> “You were totally home schooled” is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf Homeschooling is selfish. God hates homeschooling. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially. Gamble on, I don’t know, the Superbowl, not your child’s future. have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky <
I'll tell you the differences I've noted.
* As far as I can tell, all of my kids compare academically with high achievers in the public school. The oldest may or may not get that National Merit Scholarship, but Semifinalist is pretty much a foregone conclusion.
* All of them are capable of talking intelligently with adults. In fact, they're comfortable with people of any age. If an adult asks them a question, they get an intelligent answer. NOT "Um… nothin'… Idunno…"
* They are confident in themselves with a low degree of peer dependency.
* They are all of good character and are on track for becoming kind, intelligent, decent human beings as adults.
Until you can say the same for all of those you teach, then maybe you'd better not be so quick to condemn others who frankly know a heck of a lot more about what they're doing than you do.
And that's all I have to say about that.
Just want to point out–it’s not “So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?” It should be “So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as I?”
Please, from one public school teacher to another – SHUT UP! You’ve made such a fool of yourself that I don’t want folks to think all public school teachers are as ridiculous as you.
Don’t worry Susana, we know there are many professional teachers at all levels of education who love it, ignite passion in their students and truly care about their students.
Yep. My mother was one. So was my great-grandmother and scads of my great-great aunts.
LOL! I read this article and actually laughed out loud! This is great! My boyfriend’s brother (Who is a graduated homeschooler) posted this on facebook and sent it to me. I am homeschooled senior this year and after reading this article it is CLEAR that you have NO idea what you are talking about. First off, I’m amazed that you’re an English teacher because you’re English sucks. You may want to get a refresher course, honey. Secondly, I just finished up Eng 102 at my local community college this past semester and the whole class talked about how to argue your point. You obviously do not know how to do this. Your points are flawed in every way and have logical fallacies all over the place! It’s actually quite hilarious to read.
You have obviously done no research on homeschoolers and are making a TON of assumptions. First off, have you ever talked to a homeschooler? I can totally understand how you homeschoolers come across as geeky…10 years ago. But have you looked at homeschoolers today? A vast majority of them get better grades than public school students and end up doing better in the work place, because they know how to think for themselves. I’ve been homeschooled since 1st grade. Now, I will admit there were times during my homeschool career that I wished I went to public school so I could make more friends. However, this when we had just moved to another state and I didn’t know ANYONE. The feeling of wanting to go to public school lasted about 9 months. What happened during those 9 months? I met people! Amazing right! Although, looking back now, I don’t know why I wanted to go to public school because most of them are a bunch of idiots. Most of friends are older than me. I’m 17 and my best friend is about to be 19. I work with all adults and they tell me all the time “Oh crap, I probably shouldn’t be cussing right now you’re only 17!” And the thing is? Homeschooler don’t act older, they act their age. It’s just the public schoolers are so stupid that everyone thinks homeschoolers act older. When really, they are being normal, it’s just all the public schoolers are idiots.
I will admit there can be flaws in homeschooling. It is hard to teach all different kinds of subjects and to make friends. However, the resouces out there to homeschoolers are everywhere! My mom didn’t teach me any science or math in high school (Nor did my boyfriends more. Hey look, I have a boyfriend, I must be social!). I learned from a book. LIKE PUBLIC SCHOOLERS DO! :O What a shock! Parents do have to make sure that they push their child socially, but in the end it’s better for the child. It pushed the kid to learn how to make friends and function in the REAL world. Public school is the last thing like the real world.
I will admit that I think there are pros and cons to both sides of homeschooling and public school. This article would be much more convicing if you had taken the time to actually research homeschooling. But instead this article is purely emotional and now just pissed people off! Not smart.
Oh and by the way? As far as homeschooling god hating homeschooling, you have no clue what you’re talking about. Why can’t you be a light to public schoolers without going to school with them? If a person is a christian who goes to public school then they should be a light as well. ….I’m not seeing much Christian change happening in the public schools. And I know about 30 devout Christians who go to public school. You get back to me when there is a change.
I’m a homeschooled senior and I have a 3.9 GPA. I work 20 hours a week, every week and my manager loves me because I actually do my job. I am involved in theatre and directed my own show at 16. I plan on going to college and majoring in Musical Theatre. I have a boyfriend and many other friends that I can not keep track of. I am a normal social person in society who plans on making a difference in this world. I thank for my mom homeschooling me who helped me learned how to function in this world correctly and for actually making me stand out and be different. Being different is the new thing? Don’t cha know?
Jesse, you’re cracking me up here! To quote your reply to one of the early comments: “I’m delighted by your defensiveness!”
You’ve reminded me of an eye-opening moment in my “pre-home-schooling-dad” days when I was sitting in a master’s level university seminar course on current issues in elementary ed. We had spent an entire semester investigating a number of promising and (at the time) cutting edge trends in public education: multi-age classrooms, real world (out of the classroom) mentoring, multi-year same teacher looping, reduced class sizes, year-round schools, increased individualized instruction… hmmmm. Anything creative that might benefit kids was on the table, but when home schooling came up for discussion, there was suddenly no reasonable discussion, just a roomful of defensive professionals whose credentials and expertise were being challenged. The professor cut short the subject with a suggestion that home schooling might have racist motivations, and that was that. Wow.
As former classroom teachers (both public & private schools), my wife and I have a ton of respect for public school teachers like yourself as you take on the frustrations and joys of an inherently challenging task: educating many INDIVIDUALS in a group setting. However, we would ask you to consider extending that same respect to others who make different choices than yourself as they seek to raise their children.
I’m not offended by your post, of course… obviously you’re getting some enjoyment out of stirring up a little controversy (and venting!); this is what blogging is all about. I do wish you the best in your classroom!
OK, here are some things about your OP that tickled me:
1. “You were totally home schooled.” Man, I wish. I wasted soooo much time as a kid in public schools. And I saw firsthand how the whole comparison/standardization thing contributed to arrogance in the successful kids (myself, and maybe you too??) and hopelessness in those who were “behind.”
2. “Call me old-fashioned.” OK, your views do seem a bit narrow and old-fashioned, if you believe learning only takes place inside four walls directed by highly trained professionals.
3. “Homeschooling is selfish.” Yep, maybe so. Our family’s sure lovin’ it.
4. “God hates homeschooling.” Wow. He told you this?
5. “Arrogant to the point of lunacy.” Then a list of academic credentials. ROTFL. Look, I’m glad you enjoy the formal classroom environment so much, good for you, but didn’t you learn somewhere along the way that promoting the idea that your choices are the only right choices pretty much defines arrogance?
6. “As a teacher, home schooling kind of pisses you off.” Well of course, you’ve invested your life in the public school establishment. It’s a little unsettling to think that an ordinary mom or dad might be enjoying success with her or his kids… kind of threatens your whole profession; I get that. Here’s the irony: every teacher wants his or her students to become lifelong learners, willing to take risks, empowered to use the tools of knowledge to overcome challenges… hmmm, I’ve just described many of the home school moms and dads I know.
5. “Home schooling could breed intolerance, maybe even racism.” I guess so, if the parents are that way. Of course, racism and intolerance can be learned from public school peers (I sure encountered a lot) and from prejudiced teachers (I had a few). Raising kids who care about others is pretty much dependent upon good parenting, no matter the school context. I know as a public school student I became quite prejudiced against those who weren’t in my age cohort, including adults.
4. “Socialization…” Ahhh, the S-word, which assumes that socialization is an inherently positive thing. Thanks for bringing that up; it’s one of the strongest points in favor of home schooling.
Here are some lessons of socialization I encountered from my peers during thirteen years as a student in public schools: Conform or be mocked. Only those your same age are cool; younger kids are to be despised. Adults are out-of-touch idiots. Kids who are different than the cool kids are geeks (can I use that word?) :]. You will be rated according to your physical appearance. Mind your own business and you won’t get beat up. Pick a social group: jocks, nerds, preps, band, stoners, rednecks (OK, I’m dating myself I know)… choose wisely because this will define you for life (yeah, right!).
And here are a few additional socialization lessons I learned from the system itself: “Gifted” students deserve more creative experiences than ordinary kids. Worship the all-powerful permanent record. You are the sum of your test scores. If you’re good at test-taking, grown-ups will praise you and give you awards. Career preparation is the most important part of life.
OK, having said all that, I did enjoy school and there were tons of positive experiences for which I’m grateful; just making the point that you can’t assume socialization is helpful, just because its context is the public school.
And please don’t assume you know anything about the diverse kinds of experiences my kids have had time to explore. (What do you picture, my kids locked in the house listening to my wife and I standing at a chalkboard for six hours a day?)
2. “Home schooling parents are arrogant.” You seem to be saying that it’s arrogant to explore options and take risks that fail to conform to the path of the majority. I really don’t understand that perspective.
Your point about gambling assumes there’s zero risk in sending your child to whatever teacher they may be assigned in school. I sat in undergrad and grad classes with tons of prospective and current teachers; some were fantastic, some were scary. It’s a crap shoot, in more ways than one. Look, every parent takes risks with their kids every day… this is called life. Choices are made and there are no guarantees. If I take a different parenting path than you, it’s only arrogant if I call you names because you went the other way. Hmm.
1. “Have you met someone homeschooled?” Well, yes. My entire life has been spent working with children, so I’ve known literally thousands of kids in public, private and home school contexts. Geeky and socially adept. Violent and bashful to a fault. Delightful and annoying. Creative and repressed. I’ve seen each of these within each of the school context options, and it seems to depend more on the parents’ personality and involvement than whatever school setting they’ve chosen for their kids.
Thanks for an entertaining post, and for creating a great forum for this discussion! I really do wish you the best as you serve in your classroom, Jesse; enjoy those kids… –Dan
D’oh, the blog auto-editor kept “correcting” my numbers… talk about forced standardization…
Yes, I can count, even though I’m a home school dad…
:] –Dan
Your belief that your teaching ability is superior to that of the people actually providing the teaching to homeschooled children is unfounded. While you may have a lot of degrees, like many professional educators they come from schools and programs that are far less intellectually challenging than the schools and programs that a lot of homeschooling parents attended. See, for example, Thomas Sowell’s 1993 book “Inside American Education”.
In addition, you assume that the process of educating your own child mirrors the process of managing and teaching a room full of perhaps 20 children, or teaching a subject to hundreds of students who spend 45 minutes a day in your classroom. That assumption is no more valid than assuming that a chef at a 4 star restaurant does the same thing you do when you cook dinner at home.
You also seem unaware that homeschool parents frequently use outside experts as a part of their educational program. My homeschooled high school student currently has 9 teachers, each a specialist in their subject. Several of them teach classes at the college level as well. Are you suggesting you are more qualified than they are?
I encourage you to learn more about homeschooling, perhaps by reading one of the many books on the subject, before sounding off and making yourself look foolish.
Robert,
I state that yes, the homeschooling parent might be a better English teacher than me. What I doubt is that they are better at teaching every subject than the team that would teach their child in public schools.
As far as learning more… today I put a post up about wanting to visit some homeschoolers homes. I’ve had hundreds of angry responses to my post, but thus far no invitations.
I can’t take it anymore… once could be an oversight; twice means you don’t know the difference.
“…the homeschooling parent might be a better English teacher than me”????? THAN I. Might be a better English teacher than I.
And given that this is the second or third time you’ve advanced this particular incorrect usage in this passage alone, I would eliminate the word “might” from the sentence.
Please, come visit mine. I am emailing you offline with an invitation. We even have a guest bedroom you can stay in!
Pingback: arrogant to the point of lunacy « Treasure Seekers
I have met some very dedicated teachers who have immersed themselves over many years to teach and mentor children and young adults especially through those awkward teen years. Not all of them are in formal school settings. Some of them are at home quietly providing for their own children a quality education. It is not for you sir or me to judge the reasons why parents pursue homeschooling or why others send their children off to a private school vs. public education. You are both arrogant and a fool to think that you know and understand why some prefer homeschooling, others private and still others public education. We chose public education for our children but do not for one moment believe that excused us of our responsibility to teach them at home. We are and will continue to be the most influential persons in our children’s lives.
Pingback: Rhetorical Outbursts : Classic Anti-Homeschooling English Teacher
You claim to have:
“double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles”,
yet you incorrectly used “me” when you should have used “I” in this sentence:
“But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me”
And you wonder why people are turning to homeschooling as a better alternative?
And you call homeschoolers “arrogant”?
Your arguments sound reasonable on the surface but are not borne out by statistics and facts. I would be happy to research these facts for you but I have no illusion that facts would have any impact on your opinion.
You said:
9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope). It also shouldn’t be where the family gathers to watch American Idol or to play Wii. Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study. In modern society, we call them schools.
I say:
Who says all homeschooled children do their work at the kitchen table or in the living room, instead of a dedicated learning-focused place to study?
And if the kitchen table and living room in particular, and the home in general, are such poor places for learning, then why on earth do so many public schools expect parents to supervise their children for hours’ worth of homework every day? Why is it that that lesson couldn’t be completed during the school day?
If a school can have a gym, bathrooms, a broom closet, a cafeteria, and classrooms, then surely most homes have more than one “environment.”
Last time I checked, American society has a more expansive view of what a “learning-focused place to study” is. Libraries sure seem to fit the bill. And private libraries existed before public libraries ever did.
Furthermore, perhaps you’re not aware of the long history of home-based tutoring. Maybe in some of your reading (since you did say you have an English degree) you recall young women with their governesses. Some of the brightest minds in history were tutored at home, and often genius ran in families, and well-educated parents instructed their children.
I can count myself exempt from your concern of a lack of diversity in the home. But perhaps you would be interested to know that African-American families, unlikely to be chosen as the poster child for public school success, are fast embracing homeschooling. As one mother said after being confronting with ignorant teachers, and deciding to teach them herself, at least she’s not *afraid* of her own children. And I urge you to read Jonathan Kozol’s “The Shame of the Nation” if you really believe public schools are that racially diverse.
Perhaps it would be instructive in a future article to address the concerns many parents have of teachers who are unqualified, unmotivated, and who hate kids, but like the vacation and pension plan. Perhaps it would be helpful to explain to parents why there need to be metal detectors (to check for guns), drug sniffing dogs, urine tests, and random classroom visits to check for weapons, drugs, and other prohibited substances at school. Perhaps you can explain why so many students are afraid of going to school. Perhaps you can explain why there have been a rather surprising number of indecent sexual acts committed in American classrooms, some of them involving students during class time, and some of them involving teachers who are sexually involved with their students. Perhaps you can explain how and why schools do and do not involve parents in their children’s education. These issues are surely more relevant for you to focus on, since you are a teacher and are presenting yourself as an expert on the American school system, rather than making blanket, misinformed statements about a movement that you have a vested financial interest in making sure does not become too popular.
I will begin by saying that as a persuasive essay you would receive an F. Rule number 1 for any persuasive essay is that you’re trying to PERSUADE somebody, and by throwing off random insults to entire groups of people you not only alienate the very people you are trying to persuade but also anybody with common sense or moral standards. I will address your points in order.
10. Unverified and inaccurate. Studies continuously prove that Homeschoolers do better in college than Public Schoolers, and to generalize like that is absurd.
9. 100% opinion based and therefore irrelevant. Also, as it so happens, untrue; I entered a decently-rated high school the other day during school hours. A 10th grade math teachers was slouching in his chair while some children had make-out sessions in the back of the room and others played the guitars they tote around the school for their guitar classes. If this is a school that scored a 7/10 from GreatSchools.com, I shudder to think what might go on in schools that receive failing grades.
8. I seriously laughed out loud at this one. It totally undermines every other point made in the article and makes you not only seem like a baby but also makes me seriously doubt your critical thinking and persuasive argument skills. The entire rest of the essay features you ragging on why homeschooling is so bad, and in this one point you concede that homeschooled children are obviously smarter and better-able to help their peers and that it is therefore selfish to let them learn at their own pass. I mean… come on. Your entire mirage shatters here.
7. Spoken like a true agnostic. If you knew anything about religion you would laugh at your comments: implying that teenagers who don’t go to school can’t spread the word of God is stupid. Not only that, but… it’s totally irrelevant, especially if you yourself don’t believe it.
6. Here you go on generalizing again. Are their homeschool parents who are arrogant to the point of lunacy? Of course! Does that mean the majority are? No. Once again you speak about a topic you know virtually nothing about. If you’ve spoken to more than a handful of homeschool Moms in your entire life I would be VERY surprised. Oh, and good luck with your Teacher’s Salary after all of that “higher education” that you obviously exaggerated.
5. Couldn’t think of a tenth point, huh? You lose all my respect for this one. It makes the whole article seem unprofessional and petty; like a Homeschool mom just rear-ended your car or something and you need to burn off steam.
4. Racism is abundant in schools and to deny that is pure ignorance. In homeschool communities kids in minorities don’t get beaten up for no reason. Can’t say the same about your precious school system, can you?
3. Yes, there are homeschooled children who are complete shut-ins. Yes, there are homeschooled children who don’t get enough socialization. No, this is not the fault of homeschooling in and of itself; plenty of homeschooled kids participate in Co-Ops, Extracurriculars, Sports and everything else needed to learn to socialize. Once again, by generalizing your argument loses all validity and it proves you know nothing about what you’re talking about.
2. Petty and taken out-of-context. If homeschooling isn’t right for a family then there’s nothing stopping them from quitting. This argument is, once again, irrelevant.
1. Think of all the people you know of and admire for their abilities or accomplishments. How many of them were “popular” in school? Geeks are more intelligent, friendlier, and, when they seek out a friend-group with other people friendly, non-judging people, they wind up being far more successful in life. Take yourself for example. Your essay proves you were obviously a “popular” kid in school. Look where it’s got you: you’re a public school teachers pulling in 25,000 a year. Way to live the dream, sweetheart.
In conclusion, if you want to write a persuasive essay, use fact-based points that can’t be dis-proven by ME, a 15-year-old High School Freshman.
The homeschooling test performance statistics speak loud enough for the homeschooling community….look at how more economically efficient homeschooling families get the job done as compared to the “cost” of public education
I believe many other people leaving comments have spoken what was on my mind while reading your article.
I only want to share one thing about your reason #8. You wrote: “To take these (I’m assuming) high achieving students out of our schools is a disservice to our less fortunate public school kids. Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.”
My husband was one of those students with less literate parents who relied on peer support. His grades somewhat benefited from the presences of higher achieving classmates. However, now that I have seen the way he has struggled with college classes that he should have been prepared for, I am that much more motivated in homeschooling our children. I realize that he was able to ride on the backs of the students who knew how to write a paper properly during the group assignments and skate through classes without having to actually be accountable for his education. It may have helped him get by in grades K-12, but it did him a disservice for college and independent study. Because I was a ‘geek’ in public school that was motivated to teach myself the subjects that my teachers did not teach effectively, I am tutoring my husband in his basic college courses as well as teaching my children. My children will NOT skate by. They will be held accountable to learn skills that they will need for their path in life. Having upper-class children in the public school setting is not the factor of success for a lower-class child who is struggling. Having a system that actually cares about the children and the skills they are learning would be a start. I don’t believe that system exists.
Given the fact that I was teased relentlessly from kindergarten all the way up until high school, I think you’re full of it. Public school was an utter nightmare, and I personally know that my kids are better off at home with me.
And just and FYI, my kids do not eat Fruit Loops or meatloat (although I was offered these food items in public school), we do not have Wii, and we do not watch American Idol. My kids are above average per the PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM review board, and my children are happy and thriving.
I think it’s people like you who are scared of parents like us. We are the first educators of our children from birth, and we extend that into the later formative years.
Some kids need to be in public school. My kids are one of them. And given the fact that you did not give birth to my children, do not feed them, raise them, or take care of them when they are sick, and could care less about their personal well being, but only your own personal agenda and narrow minded viewpoints, I think you should mind your own business concerning homeschooling.
If you don’t like it, don’t do it.
It’s our choice. Our children. Our families.
Wow, you are a teacher? I’m SO glad we homeschool! LOL
I say to you one thing. Shame On You!
My children have attended Detroit public schools and I know WELL the atmosphere our children would have to endure day after day, hour after hour, were they not home educated. You hold us up as racists and geeks, while spouting radical ideas that it is our “duty” to send our children, our priceless souls over to a broken system?! My God! You have not only drunk the punch but you’ve swallowed the pill!
When a better alternative is available, parents owe NOTHING to you or the school system that you hold as your God. Send your children to that forsaken place. You can hope your child is one who succeeds in spite of the rubble, as for me and my house, we choose the path that has been proven to work over and over again. We choose the best for our children and owe the system NOTHING but our taxes.
You’ve obviously done little to no research regarding home education. I now know why you did not become an attorney. You’ve lost your case. I can only wonder if you are woman enough to concede.
When your worshiped system spits out teens of all races, and economic backgrounds who are achieving Associate Degrees and Bachelor Degrees before they are 19 years old, I will listen to your view. But until your system rises to the excellence that home education provides, have the sense to hang your head in shame.
Pissed off! Ha, ha! Now THAT’S articulate! I’m not sure I believe that you have multiple degrees in English! I’m glad my kids (including my well-adjusted Notre Dame graduate) did not have YOU for an English teacher.
My two best friends were homeschooled. I went to public school, was very active in athletics and social groups. There never was, and never will be, a difference in who we are as people. These girls are so brilliant. Homeschooling was definitely the RIGHT CHOICE for them. They both have PHd’s, make a daily difference in their communities, and are in solid marriages. And we are all still the best of friends after 20 years. They were not damned to a life of social exile, and never were taunted about their homeschool status in college. The bottom line is, different educational styles work for different families. Your very narrow and biased beliefs and harsh judgments in this matter reinforce negative and untrue stereotypes for a group of people with whom you clearly have no personal or intimate connection.
The thing I pick up most from this blog is the complete and total inability of the blogger to understand what they look and sound like.
My kids are in public school, but this post encourages me to pull them out. If this post is representative of what goes through the mind of public school teachers, then this country is doomed. It is no wonder that America spends more per student then the rest of the world, and yet accomplishes less…. Except reproducing more people who think they know better then everyone else, and would like more laws, and statutes to intervene in, and control other people’s lives.
The disaster that was no-child-left-behind, will have a part II in this little series of “america goes down the toilet”. Some teacher has the gall and shear ignorance to form concepts in their mind that they somehow know, what is best FOR ALL. Part II will be “No Child Gets Ahead”.
Do yourself a favor, and quit the profession of teaching. You dishonor every teacher I know.
This entire arguement is not even worth adressing. However, an “english teacher” with so very many credentials should certainly know that the usage of the pronoun me in point six is incorrect!
Please excuse the misspelling of argument in the above comment and the typo for addressing lest it lead to another rant!
Elizabeth, I hope you can appreciate the irony.
Who would have ever thought that a public school teacher would have a problem with something that could put her out of business?
Its pretty simple, maybe you need a math lesson.
One person teaching a tenth as many students will have a much easier time of it.
Everyone in your entire farking classroom has to learn everything at the rate of the slowest student.
And actually saying “slowest” is rather dumb I guess because everyone differs in what they excel at. But at any given moment one student will be the slowest and the rest of the class will have to move at that pace. That will happen for every single thing you might want to be paid to teach. It isn’t even as simple as having the “smart” kids move forward because really the “dumb” kid might just be having a hard time on the particular subdivision of a subject. And then he is in the dumb class and learns less even though in the future he might be better prepared to learn a subject than the “smart” kids.
Another aspect of this is how much time each student wastes, who happens to excel at a particular subject, waiting for the rest of his/her classmates to finish.
Add to this the time wasted going to and from school, waiting in-between classes, and taking long enough of a lunch break for everyone in the school to finish eating before anyone can start learning again.
Add to this the ridiculous prison-like environment of school where every guy who doesn’t spend an inordinate amount of time being social has to worry about getting beat up. Is this the social interaction you like? Should we all really have to go through a reenactment of Lord of the Flies to thrive in society?
In reality grown-ups have a lot of leeway who they spend time with, and if someone wants to beat them up, that someone will go to jail. Not so in school really. Basically the social interaction school gives people is of a type of interaction they will never have to experience again unless they have to go to prison.
Anyone who has passed highschool and become an adult will have the ability to teach any subject they can find a good textbook for. Unless, of course, public school did a really shitty job teaching them to think for themselves and/or read books. However, in that case one should avoid public school anyway!
School is all about a paycheck for you. You like it because you get paid a lot more than you are worth and there are no requirements that you actually do a good job.
Parents have a damn good reason to try far harder than you ever would even if your job actually required some sort of accountability.
Maybe after you gain a little wisdom you’ll stop generalizing about people and treat them as individuals…it’s a simple lesson that you never seemed to pick up with all of your education. Try to learn it soon before you corrupt too many of your impressionable students (like your teachers apparently did to you)!
Your post is full of all manner of fallacious argumentation, and you don’t merit all the attention you’ve received. Let me just say that I find it deplorable that anyone who works daily with children would call any kid a “geek,” a term you use repeatedly in your “case.” As a homeschool parent who is also the product of the public schools, I know from experience that there were plenty of kids who had trouble adapting to the social darwinism of the public schools. I pity any “geeky” kids that have the misfortune of ending up in your class.
Here in Australia (I’m not sure about over there in America) we have a DECS (Department of Education and Childrens Services) approved (public school) home-schooling school called Open Access College. DECS approved teachers (the ones that would normally do face-to-face schooling) teach 30 minute lessons on subjects and then get us to do work for the week and send it in (as well as assessment work and what not). This allows people who are too far from a bus stop or school, or people with medical reasons or family arrangements (personally I’m a carer for my mother) to be able to actively participate in schooling. What do you think of OAC schooling?
I think it sounds fascinating. Where could I learn more? Do you feel qualified to write about this?
Email me: jessescaccia@gmail.com
For a program like that in the States, check out http://www.flvs.net
you can find out more at http://openaccess.edu.au
My husband teaches dual enrollment classes at a local high school. Admittedly, he has the “brightest and best” in his class, as getting into a dual enrollment class is competitive. He also teaches at the local community college.
We have many, many friends who are teachers in the local public schools, all of whom care deeply for the children they teach and most of whom are frustrated by the school system and bureaucracy.
He is in the process of the teacher certification program for non-education majors. The instructors are education specialists. . . and the courses are laughable. A local middle school principal came in to discuss teaching at that level, and didn’t even have basic grammar skills. It’s been highly frustrating to my husband to deal with the idiocy, low expectations presented by the education courses, and narrow-minded ideology continually pushed.
While our friends do tend to be great teachers, most of them came from other fields into education — and like the author of this disparaging post on homeschooling, brought with them education and experience outside of the “education” field. Sadly, the “education majors” are woefully educated beyond classroom management and multiculturalism, even at the M.A. level. In spite of the good teachers which are out there, so many others we know are ignorant, limited in their understanding of the broader world, and condescending to those who think “outside the box.”
We homeschool. We have from the beginning. Both my husband’s and my families of origin homeschooled various siblings along the way. We don’t believe it is the ONLY option, but it is definitely a very valid and good option for a lot of children. My husband’s “certification” in education has not helped him one whit in homeschooling our children.
Talk about “taking a gamble” — I wouldn’t gamble my children’s education and future in the local public schools.
Home schooling is definitely a controversial topic.
I can’t agree with reason #10. Kids, sadly, will always be teased and bullied, home schooled or not. Putting them in a school setting won’t change that. Kids need to learn to have self respect and strength despite teasing, rather than try to avoid it at all costs.
Call me silly, but when English teachers, or teachers at large, start referring to any student as “geeky”, or stereotyping students in general, then perhaps it is time the parent(s) stepped in and took over. Take a look at these “geeky” homeschooled graduates. http://sharebradenton.homestead.com/Famous.html
Ok – first off: I don’t know where you get the idea that all homeschoolers are the same…
You make it sound as if we live under rocks. Yes, I said “we”…I am a homeschool student.
I have many public school friends, and am well socialized… unlike what you might think.
Not all homeschool parents are wealthy, as you so put it. Not all homeschool students are “geeks”/nerds.
Just because we live and study at home does not mean that we don’t have many differnt races of friends…or know about other cultures.
We are all well educated even if our parents don’t have a high education as you claim to have.
After reading this…if makes me even more happy to be homeschooled.
You said:
9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope). It also shouldn’t be where the family gathers to watch American Idol or to play Wii. Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study. In modern society, we call them schools.
Don’t you think it is a good thing to be interactive with your family?! I do!
You say that homeschoolers don’t have a place to focus during school… you know have a CLUE about what you are talking about.
I am glad you posted this – It will show what kind of WRONG idea people have about homeschooling.
Homeschooling – I’m all for it. I have seen so many great homeschooling programs, where children were fabulously well educated and had bountiful opportunities for social interaction.
If parents can afford to home school their children, they should do it by all means. Investing their money in their children is the best thing they can do. Sending their kids to inferior public schools for the purpose of possibly benefiting other less fortunate kids – that’s ludicrous. But that’s the typical public school attitude: find the lowest common denominator and teach at that level. Sacrifice the smartest and brightest to do that. (I wonder, would any responsible parent say, “I can afford to send my kid to a first-rate doctor, but we’ll wait in line down at the free clinic instead. Don’t want the poor folks to feel bad.”)
Furthermore, it’s illogical that a self-professed agnostic admonishes Christians to use public schools as a avenue for proselytizing. That’s especially bizarre in light of public school attempts to remove any practice of religion from the school. I seriously doubt public school teachers want Christian kids spending their time promoting their religion in the classroom.
And what’s wrong with studying at the kitchen table anyways? I remember using it every night to do all the mounds of homework I got from my public school teachers!
As for public schools, they couldn’t be more informal! I was in one within the last year. You see kids wearing flip-flops and pajama bottoms, fat girls in tight short-shorts and skin-hugging spaghetti strap shirts, boys with their pants drooping around their bottoms. I said to myself – thank God my nephews go to private schools instead of a jungle like this!
There’s a reason the middle class is leaving public schools in droves. Your arguments against home schooling are entirely superficial. Personally, I think public school teachers are scared to death that home/private schools are becoming a real competitive force. Public schools no longer have a monopoly on education. They have to prove themselves and be more accountable.
Maybe you would do a public schools a better service if you gave some reasons why children get a better education there than in home schools, if you can think of some.
Regarding your fourth point about intolerance, you might be interested to know that if my children were not homeschooled they would be educated in a public school system with the following demographics: 95% Caucasian; 3% Asian; 1% African American; 1% Hispanic.
Too bad my caucasian son is missing out on developing his social skills in such a diverse setting.
Instead he is relegated to hanging out with his homeschool, sports, and neighborhood friends. Let’s see, only 5 of his friends are African- American, 3 are Asian, and the other 10 or so that he hangs out with (not including his baseball team) unfortunately happen to be white.
Oh yeah, and in our homeschool where there is “probably only one race/one sexuality/one background” there are 2 males and 3 females, one of whom is not caucasian at all.
Two good friends of mine homeschool and have large families made up of biological and adopted children. Here’s the breakdown on those:
Family #1: 3 African American; 4 Hispanic; 7 Asian; 4 Caucasian; Almost 50/50 Male/Female.
Family #2: 5 African (Liberia); 6 African-American; 1 Asian; 5 Caucasian; Again, almost 50/50 Male/Female.
I won’t begin to go into the many flaws of our public education system, which only strengthen the case for homeschooling.
I imagine you already know them because you are a public school teacher, just as I once was.
My wife and I have homeschooled our children at various times throughout their education. For various reasons we felt that this was to their benefit. I remember when our eldest son was entering the 6th grade. My wife accompanied him to the middle school only to discover that his homeroom class had 45 students and one teacher! The other homeroom class was the same. We then homeschooled him for two years until we could move into a better school district.
All total he received some 5 years of homeschooling from his mother and me. He graduated High school, finished a double major in three years from a prestigious aviation College; and is now an officer in the Marine Corps. His sister below him was also homeschooled during her formative years. She too graduated from Public high school with High honors and just graduated with a double major in business and business administration. She was applauded by her professors and classmates at their “Capstone” presentation for her business class as “The MVP of her class” and graduated with a 3.85 gpa, Phi Theta Kappa, and all of this was accomplished as a newlywed and while holding a full-time job at a local bank.
I could say more but feel I would only be “Gloating” – which is fine given the context of your arrogant and ignorant remarks about homeschoolers. Suffice to say that your #5 reason for “Not homeschooling” and your poor, ignorant, attitude, are precisely why many do not send their children to public schools. You are obviously a person of very little character, integrity and fairness of education. Certainly not the least bit respective of the “Homeschool” culture and the “Diversity” it lends to this great Nation and it’s pride of freedom.
With all due respect to the author, she/he clearly knows NOTHING about kids who are homeschooled. I am an attorney with a successful general practice. I was among the pioneer children homeschooled during the mid to late 80s when homeschooling was in its infancy. I am a prime example that every single one of these 10 reasons is fundamentally flawed. I’m not sure where Jesse is getting his/her information, but it is certainly not from reality. Or, perhaps he/she surveyed a handful of homeschooled children and is making his/her case with a small sample. Either way, it doesn’t matter. To all those who read this so-called “article”, don’t believe a word of it. Check out my website and blog as proof: http://www.prittlawarizona.com
As a homeschool parent of 2 children (rising 7th and 1st graders), please allow me to comment on a few of your arguments against my choice in educating my children.
#8. My husband teaches in a public high school with many poor students. What he sees happening is that the children of “richer, more educated” families end up in honors and AP classes, thus segregating them anyway. If they do not attend these classes, they are more often than not, drug down academically by the less fortunate. Perhaps there are schools where these type of students are raised to higher levels by their peers, but not as many as you seem to think.
#7. Jesus was speaking to adults, not children. If my child comes to me and he or she feels called by God to be a missionary in a public school, we will pray about it and follow that calling if God confirms it to us. I will not presume to place that calling on my own children, though.
#4. We teach our children to love all people, even if we disagree with their beliefs or lifestyles. They have very close friends (some are next door neighbors) of other races. My children attended a birthday party next door this weekend. I would say there were over 30 children there, and our 2 were the only Caucasian children attending. If we are intolerant and geeky, then why do we have children from all over the neighborhood coming almost every day asking to play? I can look out on any given day and see from 6-15 children in our yard, having a great time. They include different races, religions, and genders.
I like homeschooling my children. I believe that 18 years will be gone in a flash. I could send them to school and have precious few hours to be with them, watch them grow, wishing for more, then look back with regret. I choose to be with them now, when we can curl up on the couch and read a good book together, laugh together over science experiments that didn’t quite work like we thought, and take walks to see that tree or bird we just read about in science. I respect your opinions because this is America where we are free to THINK (at least I hope we still are), but I hope you can find respect for us, also. After all, don’t you want to tolerate us?
Wow, talk about opening a can of worms! Excellent – I like that. Stir things up!
I happen to agree with you on many levels but the most important is this:
When I think back over my pre-college school years, I don’t remember what I learned. What I remember is the crisp September evenings and the lights and smell of the football field and cheerleading. I remember hanging out a little bit longer than normal at my locker to see if Richard Rodriguez would come by. I remember starring in the Senior play and then having a “so-called student journalist” write a bad review and hiding for 2 days.
I remember the dances, the prom, my sweet 16 party, cheerleader camp, my first car, a VW bug I was convinced could 4-wheel across the sand in Newport Beach. I remember learning how to flirt and kiss and smoke without vomiting. I remember the English teacher who told me he thought I had a brilliant mind and the Biology teacher whose wife was a Playboy centerfold.
I remember lunches in the quad with the sound of the kid rock n’roll bands and laughing at people with my friends. Those were beautiful days and I am so grateful for them.
School for me was so much more than learning the basics – it gave me a foundation for life because it forced me to take risks, get crushes, get hurt, get over it, be chased and adored, and learn how to be a good friend over fries at Jack in the Box.
You can’t learn that from your parents sitting at a table in your kitchen. The social element is so vital to a well-rounded human being. And not only that but parents that home school deprive their kids of memories that I can conjure up in a heartbeat, even at 45, and break out in goosebumps and smile.
I think you did a good thing by writing this and not because you’re going to convince anyone of anything. But because you enhanced my day by allowing me to stop and remember what a great experience school was for me.
Thank you.
Katie
The plot thickens. Now homeschoolers don’t get to have any happy memories of their childhood either.Oy!
I just have one question for you, Katie. What planet are you living on and who are these horrible people who sit at their kitchen table 24/7?
Oh, K.T. don’t you know that you can’t get a boyfriend unless you have a locker to stand next to? It just isn’t the same if you spend a little extra time under a tree at the park watching for a boy.
Katie apparently also does not think that homeschoolers have dances or proms or even sweet 16 birthday parties! Apparently all we do is sit our kids at the kitchen table and make them work.
Is this really the image people have of us????
You allow your children to sit at the table to work all day??! What kind of homeschooling parent are you? We are far more dedicated, as I force my kids to study in the basement- even further from society.
We have our own little dungeon. Gotta do all I can to keep them from seeing the evil public school kids that live next door, hahaha.
The stereotypes crack me up.
What astounds me is the passion people “against” homeschooling show when fighting to restrict my right as a parent to make educational decisions for my children….. and then attack homeschoolers for being defensive. Hey, in addition to taking on the rigors, expenses, responsibility of providing my children with a solid academic, moral, and civil education, I also pay taxes for the people who choose to or have no other choice but to send their children to institutions where the taxpayers and parents have little to no real say in what is taught and what type of environment the children are subjected to. AND, I don’t attack the government-run, er, uh, union-run schools. I simply choose to not subject my child who is the future of the country to the cesspool that is for the most part, public education.
Why are you so threatened by homeschoolers?
I am a public school teacher and was home schooled 4th grade until college. Home schooling saved my life. I was bored in 3rd grade private school and we all know what happens when kids are bored in school…I see it all the time in my classroom. It usually leads to unnecessary problems. I teach 108 students and it breaks my heart to see how unchallenged so many are…when I am paying attention to those who can’t write a full sentence or have never used Excel (in 8th grade). Home schooling made me a better teacher because I know what awesome, personalized education can do for a students’ self-esteem, future, and impact on the world. I also care more about having an active, engaging classroom because I know how effective experiential and project-based learning can be. Being in public schools makes a lot of kids care less about others…so much of it is about survival that it squelches so much beauty and creativity inside of children. I know this problem runs deep and is caused by many things, but a lack of accountability for responsibility and respect when the teacher is not looking causes a lot of damage. I can’t be looking all the time and we teachers don’t have enough time to be caring and tuned into every kid and every need. We are overworked and there are so many who need someone to believe in them and be able to sit with them and do the hard work of teaching. Home schooling is not for every child, but for some children it is what they need.
All the home schooled kids I grew up with saw no lines between grades or ages. We all played and learned together, all the friends and siblings. Most of us went to college early. We all could have intellectual conversations with adults at a young age. None of us learned to treat other children as less because of age, grade level, ethnicity, socio-economic status, or any other grouping. I may have been slightly awkward, but not all of us were, and I believe that I became an adult who is more true to who I am because I did not have to focus much on avoiding a certain stereotype or group or label. All these things make me a better teacher, even though I never set foot into a public school during school hours until my last college years.
Thanks so much for publishing this! My kids and I are starting a section on fallacious thinking and this article is perfect.
It’s rather difficult to find a piece which has many ad hominem fallacies, an great post hoc ergo propter hoc, and an array of almost all propaganda fallacies.
This was written as a joke, right? If not, it’s prima facie evidence of the quality of teaching in today’s public schools.
For the most part, I think home schooling is a family own’s business. And the results it yields depends on the individuals. There are both successful and unsuccessful kids, just like in schools.
However, in general, I do think trained teachers are usually more qualified to teach. That’s not to say all teachers are great. And that’s not to say parents shouldn’t have some say in their kid’s education. But the world, and our schools, will never be perfect. That doesn’t mean we should give up on them. Sometimes we have to take the thorn with the rose.
I agree with your post.
I can understand home schoolers wanting to be close to their kids and be around them more often. It’s a very good motivation.
Still, just because I went to school didn’t mean my Mom and I didn’t spend time together. We had a lot of fun together as she helped me learn The Great Gatsby. It’s not just about how much time you spend with your kids, it’s what you do with the time you have.
1) Christina Aguilera, LeAnne Rimes, Whoopie Goldberg, Hillary Duff, Dakota Fanning, Alan Alda, Justin Timberlake, Venus and Serena Williams. Does this sound like a group of “geeks” or “socially awkward” personalities? They were all homeschooled. As a homeschool parent, I’m more than thrilled to know my children will join the ranks of the following homeschooled students:
Leonardo da Vinci, Joseph Pulitzer, Mozart, Mark Twain, CS Lewis, EINSTEIN, Thomas Edison, Alexander Graham Bell and 14 former Presidents of the United States of America.
2) We are a family of 4 living on an annual salary of less than $25,000. We live in an extremely diverse part of the country where my children are exposed to people from all walks of life on a daily basis. Apparently USA Today forgot to interview me.
3) As a parent, my job is to raise my children to become functioning adults in society. How better to teach them, than to surround them with actual functioning adults in society?
4) Ivy League’s are now recruiting homeschool students. When it comes down to it, will you really care if your Attorney or Cardiac Surgeon is socially acceptable to his/her peers?
5) People fear (and therefore mock) what they don’t understand.
6) According to official ACT reports, homeschooled students repeatedly outperform publicly and privately educated students in the ACT assessment test. I think it is safe to assume this is why homeschooling pisses you off.
7) Teachers in the public school system should be sending annual greeting cards to homeschool parents. We pay taxes which help fund their school activities, lab fees, teachers salaries and school lunches. We do so while at the same time helping to bring down your classroom numbers so they are manageable. (You’re welcome, by the way!) Oh yeah.. and we don’t ask for a penny from teachers, other parents or the government to help fund our school costs.
8) Your ignorance and intolerance pisses me off.
9) Correct me if I am wrong but agnostics are not committed to believing in the existence of God. So by quoting God, you are admitting he exists.
I’m only providing 9 points to match your NINE points (fyi.. your #6 and #2 made the same argument and therefore cannot be considered 2 separate points).
PS – I would be impressed with your resume if I hadn’t found numerous grammatical errors. For example in #10, you used the term, “or not” twice.
If I may I would like to share what the bible says about the education of God’s people. As a matter of fact scripture speaks directly to how Christians are to educate their children. Here is a little sample of what God says about why I am to educate my children…!
The purpose is to first and foremost teach our children to love God, not the world…!
God’s call for family education, lifestyle, discipleship.
Deuteronomy 6:5-8 5
“You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. 6 ” These words, which I am commanding you today, shall be on your heart. 7 ” You shall teach them diligently to your sons and shall talk of them when you sit in your house and when you walk by the way and when you lie down and when you rise up.
Ephesians 6
6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother” (this is the first commandment with a promise), 3 “that it may go well with you and that you may live long in the land.” 4 Fathers, do not provoke your children to anger, but bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
Public school Vs. Home Christian Education
Psalms 1:1-2
How blessed is the man who does not walk in the counsel of the wicked, nor stand in the path of sinners, nor sit in the seat of scoffers! 2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD, And in His law he meditates day and night.
All education starts with the Lord!
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge; Fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Whoever teaches your child, disciples your child!
Luke 6:40 40
“A pupil is not above his teacher; but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher.
Conform or transform?
Romans 12:2
And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
Take your mind captive!
2 Corinthians 10:1-6
10:1 I, Paul, myself entreat you, by the meekness and gentleness of Christ – I who am humble when face to face with you, but bold to you when I am away! – 2 I beg of you that when I am present I may not have to show boldness with such confidence as I count on showing against some who suspect us of acting in worldly fashion. 3 For though we live in the world we are not carrying on a worldly war, 4 for the weapons of our warfare are not worldly but have divine power to destroy strongholds. 5 We destroy arguments and every proud obstacle to the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ, 6 being ready to punish every disobedience, when your obedience is complete. RSV
What do we subject our children to?
Colossians 2:8-11
8 See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. 9 For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, 10 and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority;
Our children have been entrusted to us by God!
1 Timothy 6:20-21
O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called “knowledge”– 21 which some have professed and thus gone astray from the faith.
Be set apart from the world
Matthew 22:15-22
Then the Pharisees went and plotted together how they might trap Him in what He said. 16 And they sent their disciples to Him, along with the Herodians, saying, “Teacher, we know that You are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any. 17 “Tell us then, what do You think? Is it lawful to give a poll-tax to Caesar, or not?” 18 But Jesus perceived their malice, and said, “Why are you testing Me, you hypocrites? 19 “Show Me the coin used for the poll-tax.” And they brought Him a denarius. 20 And He said to them, “Whose likeness and inscription is this?” 21 They said to Him, “Caesar’s.” Then He said to them, ” Then render to Caesar the things that are Caesar’s; and to God the things that are God’s.” 22 And hearing this, they were amazed, and leaving Him, they went away.
Ephesians 4:21-24
21 if indeed you have heard Him and have been taught in Him, just as truth is in Jesus, 22 that, in reference to your former manner of life, you lay aside the old self, which is being corrupted in accordance with the lusts of deceit, 23 and that you be renewed in the spirit of your mind, 24 and put on the new self, which in the likeness of God has been created in righteousness and holiness of the truth.
Romans 8:29-30
29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brethren;
1 Corinthians 11:7
7 For a man ought not to have his head covered, since he is the image and glory of God;
2 Corinthians 3:18
18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.
[quote]If any of you are interesting in writing for us, send me an email: jessescaccia@gmail.com. I would love to have you as part of our conversation.[/quote]
Toward what end? Your mind seems to be made up. Actually most people have their minds made up and fill in the “argument” accordingly. Familiar with the book The Happiness Hypothesis by Haidt? Good example of that in there (with explanation….). Hope you are happy with your theory, we’re happy with ours.
(BTW, edit. Although I am quite interesting, indeed.)
B.K.
My mind is far from made up. The site is called Teacher,Revised… the whole spirit of what we’re trying to do here is make arguments and then step back and see what the rest of the world says about it. And from there, revise our views. I DEFINITELY feel differently about homeschooling than I did on Friday. I’m armed with more knowledge (and less ignorance) as a result of this conversation, and for that I thank you all.
You, as a teacher, are the very reason we decided to homeschool.
We made that decision 10 years ago. Our 18 year started college 2 years ago, has friends of all ages,
has spent 4 years in a work environment with adults who treat her as a peer, has a straight A record in her college course (Forensic Sciences),
and contributes both to her community and her family.
She is able to communicate with people of all ages without rolling her eyes, making snide obnoxious comments or name-calling (something you might emulate). And she’s educated enough to know that public school teachers don’t need all your lofty degrees to follow along in the SOL notebook
and teach to the test.
We are neither wealthy or religious. We just didn’t feel like handing our child over to the school factories for 12 years.
Carole,
Your daughter is a lucky young lady.
-jcr
Is this a social science experiment to see how many people will respond to such flagrant and careless remarks sir???????
Further to my previous reply, after having a lively discussion about your post with my wife and kids, it occurs to me that homeschoolers are more comfortable in their own skin that their counterparts in the public school food chain. They are more secure and less neurotic, and less inclined toward herd mentality and following every little trend. For example, you won’t find many homeschoolers with saggy pants showing the world their boxer shorts. If that fits them into your definition of “geeks,” so be it!
In addition to doing algebra by 6th or 7th grade, our kids are popular with their peers, including the public school neighbor kids, and are involved in many activities with other kids outside the home. We have nothing to prove or justify to the likes of you.
Jay,
I regret using the word geek, I have to say. I love geeks. I am one. I was being lazy… I was (trying to) talk more directly about the ability to communicate and integrate with people of differing worldviews and cultures than oneself, something I submit is more challenging the more limited your learning environment is.
Agree with me or not… I’m glad the article inspired a lively discussion among your family. Just that alone makes all the criticism that has come my way well worth it.
Ok now, THIS is funny: “I was (trying to) talk more directly about the ability to communicate and integrate with people of differing worldviews and cultures than oneself, something I submit is more challenging the more limited your learning environment is.”
I think you need to work on your own ability to communicate with people of differing worldviews before you start throwing stones.
Jesse, so what you’re saying is that the public schools are some sort of panacaea for the limited, insular learning environment of homeschooling. In my neighborhood growing up in the 60s and 70s, I was in the minority of white kids. I observed in the public schools that blacks and whites tended to stick to their own groups, and racial tensions tended to be high. Contrived, administrative imposed solutions such as bussing were eventually recongized to be a failure. So I don’t see how just throwing kids together in the public schools accomplishes the goals you indicate.
I’m one of those ritzy people you mention, as evidenced by living in the city of Cleveland rather than the fashionable suburbs. In the Cleveland public schools, many black families over the years have strived to enter Catholic parochial schools (which tend to be lilly-white and in the suburbs) since the educational standards are demonstrably higher. You see, contrary to patronizing liberal attitudes, many minority families are more interested in EDUCATION rather than diversity indoctrination. In a high-profile news story a couple years back, the very successful voucher program in the Cleveland schools, which assisted inner city families in entering suburban parochial schools, was torpedoed by the teacher’s union and other liberal interests. Those families had no recourse but the failed public schools. Many of those families began homeschooling at that time. So don’t assume than all homeschoolers are white suburbanites.
Meanwhile, if you actually study the subject of homeschooling rather than spewing your own narrow opinions, you’d find that homeschoolers actually communicate very well with people of all ages and backgrounds and tend to be very impressive compared to their peers when it comes to making eye contact and giving articulate, non-mumbling answers, especially compared with the typical “skater dude” with saggy pants.
As a teacher, I hope you agree that your best students are those whose parents care and are involved and set the bar high for their kids. Homeschoolers take this to the logical endpoint. I hope the response to your post provokes you to get some facts instead of relying on the weary cliches of homeschooling.
In regard to reason number 2…their risks paid off, they will in homeschooling too.
In regards to them being a “geek”… who cares, sticks and stones…Are we really raising such a weak society that they care if they get called names in college, if being called names while in college offends you, maybe you ought to go back to second grade.
I don’t feel the need to defend my choice to home school, but I do want to say that I am glad my children aren’t not being taught by you. Your blog is rude and childish, yet you are supposed to be the adult.
I was strolling outside hand-in-hand with my 4-year old son last week while his sisters were taking piano lessons during the day.
We were talking about the bamboo growing in the piano teacher’s yard. He said “If I wa– If I were a Panda, (but I’m not), I wouldn’t like bamboo”.
I smiled at his careful use of the subjunctive mood.
Can you believe that in spite of the fact that I only had a minor in English in college, I was able to teach my son how to speak it properly? WOW! Can you believe it?
I tutored last year with a group of 40 homeschoolers. There are several such groups in our area in Virginia. I loved them all so much. They were all elementary ages — from zero to 12. The older students were careful and played well with the little ones and all were kind to one another. We were also racially diverse — although I hate describing people by color I will do it to satisfy your lust for such — we were black, asian, latino, and all kinds of whitish. Does that make you feel better?
And by the way, as a parent, nasty public school teachers who call little kids names really piss me off.
If I ever have any children, I’ll make damned sure they don’t get indoctrinated by bigots like Jesse Scaccia.
-jcr
Bigot? How so, John?
bigoted: blindly and obstinately attached to some creed or opinion and intolerant toward others
blind because you lack knowledge and research
obstinate because you repeat flawed arguments
intolerant because you have strong, negative opinions of people different than you; people and systems that you don’t understand or know much about
Let me see if I’m understanding the argument. Homeschooling is bad because:
10. When homeschooled kids get to college they’ll be mocked by the kids socialized by constant peer relations and educated in public schools to be tolerant and celebrate diversity.
9. Learning can’t take place at a kitchen table.
8. It’s selfish to give your kids a good education at home when others are doomed to a poor one at public schools.
7. You should send your kids to public schools to proselytize the heathen there.
6. You can’t teach a subject if you don’t have an advanced degree in that subject. (We’ll just ignore the fact that most public school teachers don’t hold degrees in the subjects they teach)
5. I’m personally offended by people who aren’t like me, who make different choices and have different beliefs. (Incidentally, you should send your kids to me so I can teach them to be tolerant and celebrate diversity.)
3 & 4. Only constant, day in day out non-stop social interaction with people who aren’t like you, who make different choices and have different beliefs will make you tolerant of them. (see point #5 to see how well this worked for me!)
2. It’s too risky to attempt getting a superior education. You should do the safe thing and settle.
1. Homeschoolers are different from me, I personally have a hard time relating to them. They should be more like me, you know: capable of dealing with people who are different.
Steve wins the thread. Well done.
-jcr
Genius. Pure genius. Wish I could slice and dice arguments like you just did. Perfect! “You must have been home schooled!” lol
Steve, I just printed out and read your post to my very amused family. When I first saw the original blog on another site I truly thought it was a parody because it was expressing what you paraphrased so well.
That was funny and sometimes witty. Nice work, Steve.
Touche, Steve.
I don’t homeschool. Unfortunately, I’ve had too many ignorant, arrogant and intolerant teachers like Jessica. It’s clear she does not understand logic and has at best a superficial education.
Regarding choosing to educate for religious reasons, so what? The First Amendment was designed to protect one’s choice.
With attitudes like hers, no wonder more people are choosing to homeschool.
Game, set, match – Steve. Well done.
“Yes, your choice is selfish. It benefits your children at the expense of the other students in the district.”
How so? Homeschooling families can’t opt out of paying their property taxes…can they? If that’s changed, somebody please let me know. I sure haven’t gotten any tax breaks so far.
Our money (earned by us, through honest hard work, 40+ hours per week) still goes to support all those less fortunate (and less geeky) institutionalized children, and our own children will never see a penny of it (N.B.: that *we* earned). Your schools are taking bread from my children’s mouths and clothes from their backs, to put it another way.
Seems to me it’s quite the reverse: public schools benefit at the expense of the public, homeschoolers included. Thanks to us: Fewer children there to take up space and services or require ever bigger buildings, yet tax dollars *still* flow from our pockets at the very same rate, into the pockets of administrators…and then to teachers…and then support staff…and then–very occasionally–trickling down to the poor, less fortunate institutionalized students themselves.
I can dream of having $5,000-$7,000 (and far higher, in some districts) per student per year to lavish on my kids. I’d be willing to put our educational outcomes up against the local schools’ on a roadside billboard, for that much money. I’d definitely use it much more efficiently and to better effect. It *would* actually go directly to our students.
For one thing, we don’t need an expensive metal detector at the front entrance. Also, we’re a lot “greener,” and thus more frugal. Just a single for-instance: No diesel-guzzling, seat-beltless vehicles required to get us to our studies.
Honestly, I’m stumped: what’s the great loss to public schools, if homeschooling draws all the geekiest geeks out of the system for you? (Geeks being the blackest bane of existence.) Haven’t we relieved your burden by removing the truly curious, alive-to-the-world trouble-makers who love to experiment and ask such bothersome, time-consuming questions (that you probably don’t know the answer to anyway, and don’t have time to research, thanks to that standardized test looming)?
KWIM? Perhaps you could clarify.
I just want to share a Bible verse with you that sums up God’s real view of homeschooling. Deuteronomy 6:7 states, “And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.” This verse refers to teaching my children the love of God and the truth about who He is. It is my responsibility, as their mother, to teach them these things, as well as anything else they need to know to function as a productive member of society. They cannot receive the constant teaching mentioned in the above verse if they spend the majority of their day out of my care. I did not bring children into this world with the intent to give them over to others to train and educate. Please understand that I do not believe myself to be 100% qualified to teach every single subject that they will need. However, I do have a plethora of other resources at my disposal (i.e. videos, other local homeschooling moms that ARE qualified to teach a given subject, local school campuses that are available to homeschoolers in certain situations).
Also, I believe that if they feel security and love in their home, and from others that care for them, then they will be confident and mature enough to disregard any such immature name-calling they might encounter.
I could go on and on about the benefits that I personally have found regarding homeschooling, but my final word is this: Children are the responsibility of the parents who bore them, and no one else. It is up to the parents to decide what is best for their children.
Thank you for your time and I hope you will research both “sides of the story” before writing anything else negative against it.
Steve @ 11:21 PM:
I would love to see you debate Scaccia face to face. You shredded him perfectly.
-jcr
Ah so you are a teacher, have you lost your job is that why you are so testy? First of all, homeschoolers more and more are being courted by colleges and universities because they actually do better in college because they don’t need their hand to be held to do the work like public school students do! Next, your boss is probably that former geeky kid! Billy Gates, a former geeky kid can buy and sell you a hundred times over. Geeks rule! People like you are just jealous because you are so inferior in terms of actual intelligence that you have to lash out! You have actually acquired degrees in English? Are you kidding me? I want to know the colleges you went to because they failed their job miserably with you and I need not to attend those schools. I do not have any degrees but your critical thinking skills are so sub-par that not only am I head and shoulders above you in terms of actual intelligence but so is my son and he is five!
As for people hating outsiders-so what! Jesus Christ was an outsider. I am sure people told Ghandi that standing up to the British Crown was futile and if he did it he would be an outsider. That he should just conform and be done with it. Thank goodness, Ghandi didn’t listen. All the great people of history have been outsiders. The cowards-like you-always telling them just to conform already! Well guess what-I don’t conform! And neither will my son, at least not to the ways of the world. He will change the world.
And let me tell you what has happened since my son has been in public school and why I am so intent on homeschooling him. He has gotten more violent, has gotten into more fights then he ever did before. He has learned curse words he never learned before even living in the so called inner city in Los Angeles. He has gotten more difficult to manage. This is your precious socialization in public school! It has turned my sweet little boy into Mike Tyson! And I am supposed to be grateful for that? Are you out of your mind?
I am on the board at my son’s school so I see the test results of your precious public school teaching and while kindergarten fares really well, by the time they hit third grade, they start to fail considerably. I am hoping to be able to get my son out of the public school system by then. As for poor people needing the influence of rich people, you can put that sentiment where the sun don’t shine! While I may respect the achievement of a lot of rich people, that by no means I am groveling to be in their company. And if me and my child never rub elbows with a rich person-so what. Our life won’t be any worse for it. Next, learn some facts, Blacks who statistically are not part of the rich and elite actually homeschool more than their White counterparts. That means a lot of poor Blacks are educating their children and don’t think for one minute, poor means illiterate! I am far more literate than the likes of you. By seventh grade I was already testing at 12th grade/college level English! What level were you at in 7th grade? 2nd grade?
Lastly, homeschoolers are better socialized than that of public school students. After all, they are used to being around kids of all ages, just within their families. They also join other homeschool families in various activities and as far as me not knowing everything-well duh! Neither do you. In fact homeschoolers often get tutors to help with various subjects. Homeschooling parents don’t actually teach all the subjects. What tutors they don’t have they get other homeschooling parents to help out. What homeschooling parents can’t do, they get the library, videos and other materials to teach their children. They are resourceful. And when it comes to religion, what they teach in the home is in addition to what is taught in their church and youth activities. So let’s see how many experts do we have teaching our children, clergy, tutors, parents, educational facilities such as libraries, homeschooling network, coaches, etc. Who do public school students have-inept teachers such as yourself. Who do you really think is going to fare better in the real world? The homeschooler who encounters the real world all the time, even during their “school hours” or the public school students who is denied the real world 7-3 pm on a daily basis?
geeks huh?
http://sharebradenton.homestead.com/Famous.html
My question is not have you met home schooled kids, but have you met public school kids?
10. Name one thing public school kids do not mock.
Since public school kids mock you for anything and everything, what is your point?
9. Public school kids just eat chips and drink cokes in the class room, they text during class (which takes more concentration than watching tv) and where exactly in your school is a learning focused place? once you enter middle school focus is seen after you graduate from high school.
8. Have you have heard of nclb. I drive a public school bus for a living (helping me make it through college), I know for a fact some parents put their kids on the bus at 4:30 in the morning and do not see them 6:00 at night. And the school pays for breakfast and lunch for them. I think that this parent is the definition of selfish but that is just my opinion.
7. God hates public schools, he said if I be lifted up I will draw all men unto me, well public school kicked him out and fights tooth and nail to keep him out, and yet the christians are stupid enough to keep their kids there.
6. Have you met any public school teachers? they think because they got some degree they are brilliant, even though they can not be fired regardless of stupid they are. They can get away with anything but murder and they know it. Furthermore they think that it is their God given duty to make fun of kids who are acting up. No offence but an adult picking on a child, that is arragant.
5. In public school the kids think it is funny that you are mad, so be mad makes you look week.
4. Public school does breed racism, have you ever heard of cliqs? or gangs? Most of the gangs are racist in nature, and most public schools especially high schools and to some extent middles schools are filled with them.
3. The worst kids I know socially are all public school kids (I am including myself in this one). But the thing that really gets me is as soon as they start talking to these socially inept people they say oh he was homeschooled, look at how stupid he is with people. I have several kids on my school bus that are socially inept (I mean like as bad as possible) the social experiment I see is be better by comparison and when you are getting made fun of make fun of this kid that is worse off than you.
2. Since you couldnt actually figure out ten reasons why you do not like home schooling and just rehashed this one I will skip it.
1. Public school kids are dumb! when I asked about 130 of those kids to fill out paper work, they had to ask me what the question “which school do you attend” meant. I was asked that question several dozen times, even by the “geeky” ones.
also i want to answer this one directly. Not the ones I know. One family I know that is homeschooling their kids has thirteen of them in all. They homeschooled them all and the only one of them that is geeky at all is the 11 year old, but if he is anything like his family in a couple of years he will grow out of it, and be rather intemidating. Another home schooled kid I know is 17 and got his black belt last year, now I may be a little prejudice here but once you have been at the wrong end of his side kick or his reverse punch ect ect, you will not find him geeky at all, although I dont think he was geeky to begin with.
If you are truly interested in the education of kids I suggest you go to http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/underground/toc1.htm and read it all.
My high school, Advanced Placement, English teacher, who said it best
“just think how advanced we could be as a society if only our children could stand upon our shoulders and learn from the mistakes of previous generations.” – Mr. Landry
Each generation usually fails to learn from history. Instead, every generation makes many of the same mistakes as all the ones before.
My family has chosen to be a home educated, because it seems all the really good teachers have retired, or passed on.
It’s a pitty you disagree with home school. It seems there’s not much I could say to change your mind. There have been many before me who have offered up wonderful examples of their success. You simply scoff at them.
Take a page from my old English teacher, and go outside. Step away from the desk and enjoy the wonderful weather. It’s much too nice of a day to stay cooped up in the classroom.
Oh I thank GOD my children will not be educated in your classroom.
As an English teacher, you are presenting a debate not based on fact (It “pisses you off?” Seriously? That’s the best you can do with two college degrees?) Where is your presentation of fact with supporting documentation? A fluff article in USA Today is the best you have? How about showing me scientific studies that support how home schooling is not in a child’s best interests?
How about basing an argument around something other than your lack of tolerance for children who aren’t ranked as “cool” by their peers. Even better, how about basing your argument on statistics that show how putting my kids in school will better serve them academically and provide better test scores which will help your district receive federal funding? Perhaps these studies don’t exist?
If this is type of intolerance you teach to your pupils, I will keep my kids home and am quite happy to do so.
Thank you for convincing me I am doing the right thing. My kids don’t need this type of hate speak and illogical debates from a “teacher.”
So, I’m a “geek”? That’s a new one.
Jesse, please understand….. We (my husband and I) do NOT want our children to be taught that different sexualities are OK. We do NOT want our chidren to have an openly gay teacher. We have taught/are teaching them that homosexual acts are mortally sinful and that nonrepentant mortal sinners (regardless of the particular mortal sin) will burn in hell. So, therefore, would you really want my child in your classroom, telling his classmates about our beliefs? No, I didn’t think so. So, I think that from your perspective, it is very UNSELFISH of us to homeschool our children. Our children’s views would NOT be tolerated in a public school and in fact would probably make many people uncomfortable. So, to protect you, we are keeping our children at home so as not to ruin your “diversity brainwashing.”
Carry on.
Wow.
Okay… With great pain, I have to echo Jesse’s comment.
Wow.
OK, why wow?
Spell it out. This should be interesting.
What if schools taught that homosexuality was wrong, period? What if they taught New-Earth Creationism without allowing for the microevolution of virii? What then? Would homeschooling be a viable option?
See, when you claim to be open-minded but are only open-minded of people sharing your own beliefs…well, it’s actually not open-minded at all. You’re not okay with different cultures and different opinions, and that’s EXACTLY why you are against homeschooling.
I’m still curious about Jesse and Kim’s response of “wow.” To what part of Catholic’s comment were they responding, and why? Come on, expand on that.
Catholic, I agree. If parents have a certain religious belief system, they obviously have it because they believe it to be correct and right. If they believe that, why would they want their children taught to believe, even to oppose, what their parents believe to be right? (I am of course speaking to moral and religious beliefs, not objective knowledge). Why should they turn their children over to the secular humanist, even marxist-flavored “collectivist” government system to be taught that worldview rather than the one the parents hold? No matter which worldview children are taught, they are going to be taught one. It’s just a question of which one. It’s illogical to expect that parents would choose for their children to learn the one diametrically opposed to that which they themselves hold. In the case of public school, this is just another attempt to “mainstream” other people’s children into the borg of leftist conformity. Good for you for having the integrity to resist. Well-educated children will grow up to be adults who can decide their beliefs for themselves, but while they’re children, they ARE going to learn in whatever framework they are put in, and why should it be the one with which their parents disagree, in favor of that of the state?
Hmmm…My 14 year old home-educated daughter, has friends who are black, white, public school students, private school students, a friend with Down Syndrome, a dear friend who is 95 years old, others aged 60 and up, small children who adore her, friends she made while participating on a community cross country team, and friends of all ages across the community, including the staff at the public library and pool, business people and sports coaches. She also has a group of varying aged friends in Slovakia, where she has been twice to do service work with her dad, and several email friends she made while our family was camping. I find it highly amusing to read your comments and then contemplate our frequent camping trips where my so called “unsocialized” children usually spend the bulk of their time having a blast, exploring, swimming and otherwise hanging with all the friends they make within the first hour of setting up camp.
When I read your comments to my daughter we both burst out laughing at #4, it is so laughably off-base by at least 100 miles in every direction. Watch out for those comfy assumptions, as they do tend to rise up and bite one on the bottom.
Let’s start with this one: “there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room”
My children are bi-racial and their father and I are white, so certainly our immediate family doesn’t fit your stereotype, but then neither does our extended family since we have relatives who are part Iranian, some who are part Hispanic and still others who are Japanese or part Japanese. Neither does our homeschool group fit neatly in your little box. Out of 50 families, 6 are mixed race, several are parented by single moms and several more have one or more children with physical or cognitive challenges, in one case severe cerebral palsy. For the record, my oldest finished 8th grade on level, except her reading comprehension which is 11th grade and she has mild ADD; my middle daughter has a CAPD, is mildly fetal alcohol effected and beyond professional expectation is reading and doing grade level math and my son is a very normal 11 yo boy, so I guess I do have some experience at teaching, successfully I might add, students with different learning styles and challenges.
Now, just in case you are inclined to assume that our situation is unique, let me assure you it is not. We are not atypical by any means. In my 9 years of homeschooling I have yet to meet even one child or family who came any where close to your pre-conceived ideas of homeschooling. I have certainly met those families who do things differently then I do, but none, not one, where the children were not allowed to interact with the “real” world or were the sheltered, little socially backward nerds your imagination has painted.
I am the co-leader of a homeschool support group representing 50 families with about 120 children from age 0-18. I also have connections to several other homeschool groups, families and individuals in real life as well as many contacts through online communities. By my conservative estimate, I personally know somewhere around 200 or more homeschooled children in real life and many more through networking. Are there home school geeks, odd ducks, so to speak? Sure. Are these children odd because they’re homeschooled? No. Sorry, I just don’t buy it. I grew up in the public school system; trust me I know what qualifies as geeky. Last time I checked, bullying was still a major issue on most public school campuses, so apparently the homeschool community does not have the market cornered on “geeks” and “social misfits”. At least if my child doesn’t fit the definition of “in” whatever that happens to be this year; they don’t have to suffer at the hands of their peers for it.
I’m sure by diversity, you mean accepting of differences? That different is just different, not bad? I know this is what I’ve taught my children. Apparently, they have absorbed and “gotten” the lesson better than you the “teacher” have. They practice what you preach. They are accepting and respectful of differences, while you label them as geeks and claim they are unprepared socially when they can and do interact with people of all ages, races, and abilities on a regular basis; when they are well able to carry on intelligent conversations with anyone, when they do regular community service and interact with a more diverse swath of people in a week, then the students in our local classrooms do in a year. You judge as misfits, young people who can participate in large group games with a mix of little kids and big kids and handily navigate friendly competition with the latter while making the games fun and safe for former.
My daughter was astounded at your leap of logic in claiming that the only place learning should happen is in schools. Her immediate response was. “If the only place to learn is in school, then how in the world would anyone ever learn anything from going places and doing things? Do people who aren’t in school any more stop learning?” At 14 she has mastered the truth that learning can and does happen everywhere.
I suggest you get out the classroom a bit more and come into the real world where we homeschoolers live so that your ill-formed opinions might have an opportunity to be informed by facts and evidence rather than by prejudice, assumption and bigotry.
Pingback: Coincidence « Commitmentarianism
Homeschooling: great for self-aggrandizing, society-phobic mother…… but not quite so good for the kid.
Here are my top ten reasons why homeschooling parents are doing the wrong thing:
10. “You were totally home schooled” is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm (whether or not the offender was home schooled or not). And… say what you will… but it doesn’t feel nice to be considered an outsider, a natural outcropping of being homeschooled.
-Other people’s opinions should not matter if being RESERVED and INTELLECTUAL is the true core of one’s personality. Using that as a reason to put down homeschooling is immature. Such taunting goes on in larger numbers INSIDE of school institutions underneath higher education, and as more of today’s “education” focuses on standards and memorization, rather than personal drive and interest – students’ attitudes toward one another become harsh and cruel.
9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope). It also shouldn’t be where the family gathers to watch American Idol or to play Wii. Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study. In modern society, we call them schools.
-Yet another stereotype. Homeschool curriculum varies from household to household. There are also tools online and in books that parents, or whoever else is schooling the child/children, can use. These websites and literatures include tips, lessons plans, and the like. Many homeschooling children can use their local libraries and online distance education. At the high school age, homeschool students can take community college courses to boost qualification for university acceptance. Parents can take them to museums, lectures, seminars, and participate with their child in experiences other activities to submerse them into the world at large. Being homeschooled offers more flexibility for things such as volunteer work and extracurricular activities. They aren’t just at home all day.
8. Homeschooling is selfish. According to this article in USA Today, students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families. To take these (I’m assuming) high achieving students out of our schools is a disservice to our less fortunate public school kids. Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.
-Homeschooling is NOT “selfish”, it’s just not ADVOCATED. Wealthy families tend to have more access to information in regards to alternative education because they typically, but not always, have more time in their schedule to read into or hear about such things. Parents of poorer families are often but not always, too consumed with working and getting money to keep their homes, food, and clothing for their families. Poorer people are not as informed on many things because, like I stated, they are so caught up in trying to get by. So they put their kids in the “best” conventional school available and hope for the best.
Also, conventional schooling has vastly grown to be about self achievement, and to a larger extent self indulgence, when it comes to things such as ranking and competition. Today’s schools are less and less about community, and more about what the individual child can do to get the upper hand on students and stand out long enough to get into college. These “poorer students” are thus left behind thanks to the implementation of programs such as AP, IB, and college prep courses, and lack of information. The high achieving classmates carry on in isolated groups. And excuse me but, are you assuming that because someone is less economically fortunate, that they are mentally incompetent?
7. God hates homeschooling. The study, done by the National Center for Education Statistics, notes that the most common reason parents gave as the most important was a desire to provide religious or moral instruction. To the homeschooling Believers out there, didn’t God say “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations”? Didn’t he command, “Ye shall be witnesses unto me”? From my side, to take your faithful children out of schools is to miss an opportunity to spread the grace, power and beauty of the Lord to the common people. (Personally I’m agnostic, but I’m just saying…)
-For one thing, not all homeschoolers are christians, or people who practice religion. Any god who would make human emotions such as “hate” get the best of he/she, is no god at all. Besides, if the school is public, then those students can’t “spread the grace” because such actions are not allowed due to the first amendment and separation of church and state institutions. (Personally, I’m an atheist, but I’m just saying…)
6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me, and biology as well as a trained professional, and history… and Spanish… and art… and counsel for college as well as a school’s guidance counselor… and… and…
-My retort to #9 explains the resources available to these types of students. I’d like to proceed to point out that in order to become an accomplished teacher; you must first be a determined learner. Learning is a lifelong phenomenon, so you can never be perfect in your craft. Due to the rush and competition and aimless drive to get into higher education, any and everybody can earn those pieces of paper if they stay in long enough and get through their coursework. And wait a minute, you just said “homeschool TEACHER”! A teacher is a teacher. Furthermore, with homeschooling, especially of the “child directed” variety, adults, older children, and other mentors are GUIDES down the path of the child’s learning, because children are natural born learners and will seek out whatever tools they need to learn. Unless this spirit has been sucked out of them by the rigidity of traditional schools.
And I say that it’s a good thing that their guides aren’t all arrogant, “I have more than you do,” types of people. That way, they can all take joy in learning together – increasing bonds and understandings of social relationships.
5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)
-Then you are a narrow minded teacher. Have mercy on any of your students who seek out-of-school help from a tutor, mentor, or their PARENT when that kid is at home.
4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Unless the student is being homeschooled at the MTV Real World house, there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room. How can a young person learn to appreciate other cultures if he or she doesn’t live among them?
-Do you think that traditional schools are any better? There exist private schools; close-minded institutions founded upon grouping students up into one religion, or one philosophy. And let’s not forget that demographics by city can create the same types of cultural barriers, if not worse than what could occur under your reasoning.
3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.
-And so does traditional school! These kids in regular school are grouped with kids the same age, and going back to demographics, the same types of ethnicity and economical groupings. They have specific times to socialize, rather than letting it happen freely as it does most often in the world at large. Talking during class, even about the subject, is penalized. And due to being used to the social groupings set up for them, students break off into segregated unions based on race, class, and more factors whenever free socializing is permitted. With homeschool, the child learns to bond better with family members, and if done more progressively they, more so than their conventional counterparts, have more chances to go out into their communities and understand social processes. If we go back to my retort in #9, the homeschool student of high school age can take college classes (i.e. Sociology) that can integrate them with different groups of people and give them understanding of social things.
2. Homeschooling parents are arrogant, Part 2. According to Henry Cate, who runs the Why Homeschool blog, many highly educated, high-income parents are “probably people who are a little bit more comfortable in taking risks” in choosing a college or line of work. “The attributes that facilitate that might also facilitate them being more comfortable with home-schooling.”
More comfortable taking risks with their child’s education? Gamble on, I don’t know, the Superbowl, not your child’s future.
-It’s less of a risk and more of a radical attempt to dodge the numerous failings of today’s conventional education system. And as mentioned before, as unfortunate as it may be, higher income families have better access to such information. I do not agree with Cate’s statement by the way, and let’s understand that he isn’t the poster-child for homeschooling anyway.
1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.
*** Please see the comments for thoughts on the word ‘geeky.’ But, in general, to be geeky connotes a certain inability to integrate and communicate in diverse social situations. Which, I would argue, is a likely result of being educated in an environment without peers. It’s hard to get by in such a diverse world as ours! And the more people you can hang out with the more likely you are to succeed, both in work life and real life.
I do know someone who is now being homeschooled. In my regular high school, this boy was stressed. He felt pressure from others about himself and who he really was. In an attempt to hide his true nature he assimilated into petty cliques. He too became petty, and narcissistic. Once he left the school to be homeschooled, he became a different person. He accepts himself. He has time on his hands and uses it to socialize and volunteer for community events; he took college classes and met more mature people. I must add that this kid has ALWAYS been an extrovert, and the life of the party. Since homeschooling, he has not become geeky, but rather, more mature in his outlook on life.
I on the other hand – despite begging my parents (and we are in the lower middle class) to understand what homeschooling and alternative education was all about – still remained in the conventional system. They aren’t at fault, because like I said, parents of lower classes either aren’t able to look into those things, or such parents are too used to the conventional system, seeing how “thanks to that” they were able to make it somehow. For nearly 13 years I have been suffering in this oppressive system. I receive HIGH grades, so don’t think my problem is that I can’t keep up – in fact I’m bored sick. In this junior I have even TRIED to put in as little effort as possible to see if my grades would drop. I still have straight A’s, but all in vain. Most schools like my own are so wrapped up in standards that the classroom is just a detention center, where we skate by doing NOTHING, ESPECIALLY in urban communities, until it is time to take those tests.
And about this geek thing. I’m sorry, but that’s just ignorant. It’s ignorant of recent studies and observations in personality and psychology that shows that “geeks” are really just either introverted, gifted, or both. The minds of the gifted tend to accelerate, so whether they are in regular school or not, they (and I can personally testify) tend to gravitate to older people, or they decide to hang out with younger people for different perspectives. The intensity of their emotions can cause them to close off due to being easily wounded. More info here: http://giftedkids.about.com/od/gifted101/a/giftedtraits.htm
Introverts are naturally reserved anyhow, and this may come off as being socially awkward to their extroverted counterparts. Info: http://psychology.suite101.com/article.cfm/the_introvert
“Hanging out with more people” doesn’t guarantee success. Rather it’s the innovation and work you put into your dreams that counts. Teamwork is vital to large scale endeavors, or even just planning a weekend at the beach. Still, people must understand that being social alone (which I believe was one of the main arguments you held) isn’t the main component to a successful life.
I am not surprised at all about your narrow minded, intolerant view of homeschooling. We have experienced private school, public school, and now homeschooling. Only now does my child not suffer from depression, and the array of behavioral disorders that the school system tried to label him with when their methods failed.
I don’t think it is selfish to pull a child out of second grade because he was deeply depressed, and bullied by teachers and peers alike.
Tolerance does not just apply to race, gender, and sexual orientation…I am appalled by your intolerance for this subject you know so little about. I did not need a public school system to teach my kids to walk, talk, read (at 3 years old), and write (at 3 years old). I certainly don’t need a public school system to fail my son, and make him feel inadequate for their failure.
After all this is not an assembly line in a factory, where you forget about the ones that don’t exactly fit the mold. I guarantee there truly is no child left behind in MY Classroom.
Do not fear me, or be jealous of me because I have succeeded where you failed. Not to mention I did it without a paycheck for my time. I do this out of love, and a mother’s instinct. But you must be right, your intentions for my child for the year or less you may spend with them must be far superior than mine. Your knowledge and experience comes from books and people whom you have never met. I have spent the last 11 years in the field, with my pupils, I know them to a tee.
I am proud of my kids who ask for schoolwork on Saturday and Sunday mornings instead of video games and cartoons. I am proud of their ability to seek out their own answers. Instead of being spoon fed the information and forced to memorize it, at times without ever truly comprehending it.
You go ahead and keep cranking them out with very little quality control, while I focus on their individual strengths with no limitations!
If this post is an example of how school teachers do research, it’s a great case for home schooling.
Second, I question the motives, if a student is homeschooled, why should a school teacher care? Oh, money, as it always is, that’s one less student in the classroom and less money to take from the taxpayer.
The article is clearly biased, it also shatters the myth that teachers care about the students first.
Money, yes, but also control. Homeschoolers are out of the control of the public school system. They can’t save our kids. They can’t make sure we’re not abusing them, not teaching them racism, not giving them the fear of global warming.
They don’t trust the parents. Sadly, there are enough terrible parents that I can understand their mistrust. The mistrust is misplaced, however. *Generally* homeschooling parents are very concerned about the education and well-being of their kids – that’s *why* they homeschool.
No, my kids are not getting the same education they would have if they had gone to ps. But they are getting an excellent education. Of that I am certain – not because I am arrogant, but because I work very, very hard.
Since you are so well trained in English you should be able to write a piece with much stronger support than this one. You should also write without slang phrases such as “for real,” and biased name calling with words such as “geek.” Why would a parent feel secure sending their children into your classroom for English instruction after reading this biased opinion piece? What kind of socialization would you offer in your classroom if you think a certain segment of the population should be labeled and put down? I would suggest you read up a bit more on homeschooling before writing another critique. Most parents who home school are not wealthy, and many are not just trying to shelter their children, but are instead trying to make up for current deficits in public education. Some parents even combine homeschooling with public education…using virtual school programs from public school districts to teach their own children at home. Homeschooling is not done in only one way. Education is meant to meet the diverse needs of students. As an Education student at a University (several years ago) I learned that it is important to meet the needs of each and every student. Some parents feel they can meet the educational needs of their children at home. Their efforts should not be put down, their children should not be picked on by adult teachers, in fact, the parents should be applauded for something very rare these days. These parents are involved in their kids’ education. This is something teachers often complain is missing, parental involvement.
I am amazed a teacher would be so closed minded to one segment of the American population.
I was homeschooled kindergarden-10th grade (then started full time college, along with homeschooling through grade 12). I would like to thank you for pointing me in the right direction with how I should act as a homeschooled kid, as I have for years been following the wrong path.
-Homeschoolers are (potentially) racist, and are not exposed to people of other races/cultures.
Why didn’t you tell me that before I started hanging out with people who weren’t white, and before I decided they are people just like me (which would’ve happened by the time I was…probably 4 or 5)? And I’m not supposed to generally prefer hanging out with non-whites? Oh dear…
-Homeschoolers are socially awkward.
Wait…so, you mean, I’m not supposed to be able to interact with people well?! I’m not allowed to have friends who include high school dropouts, as well people such as the principle trumpet player of one of the top orchestras in the country?! I’m not supposed to feel comfortable in pretty much whatever group I’m in?! AND I’m *not* supposed to be popular?! Where did I go wrong?!
-Homeschoolers are uncultured.
I guess this would depend on how one defines “cultured”. I don’t suppose it would be include things like…going to classical music concerts and operas (and liking them)? Enjoying reading books/articles by authors named Tolkien, Locke, Twain, and the like (or even enjoying reading in general)? Deciding out of the blue to go to an art museum while in Sydney, Australia, just because art is cool? No, I don’t there’s just now way that would be cultured, eh?
-Homeschoolers are geeks.
If geeks play basketball, football, and pretty much any other sport, frequent jazz clubs, listen to rap, and are accepted by just about everyone, then sure, I’m a geek. Besides, it’s cool to be a geek now…didn’t ya know?
-Homeschoolers are pretty much just going to end up being failures in society.
I suppose doing my job quickly and efficiently close to 100% of the time, when the only other one of 15-20 people (all public schooled) working the same department as me who could even be depended on to actually show up for work was the assistant manager basically means I have failed society. I apologize for my hard work, and promise that I will do my best to never actually be dependable ever again.
-Homeschoolers encountered NO bullying/teasing.
Well, I never experienced any bullying/teasing at home, because all four of my siblings (all homeschooled) are perfect angels. Not once did either of my brothers make fun of me. Not once… Never did we get in fist fights, or say one single mean thing to anyone… Not ever…
In conclusion, I do not know where I may have ended up had I not stumbled upon your article, good sir. I may have remained as I was, a non-racist, social, cultured, non-geeky, contributor to society. I am now completely fulfilled that my place in life has been shown to me by you. I will try my best to lower my life standards, that I may more adequately meet your expectations for my life. Thank you, and good night.
———-
All sarcasm aside, thank you for your efforts as a teacher.
As the mother of 3 kids who are currently homeschooled (although they attended several years of public school previously), I absolutely loved your response. Clearly, the time with your family, spent being nurtured and well-educated, has allowed you to flourish into the obviously clever, intelligent, mature young adult that you now are.
Wow, over 200 replies to a supposedly educated teacher! This person may have some smarts, but all common sense has left the building. I honestly doubt I would ever trust my child to her, as her views are aggressive, juvenile and extremely left wing. In other words, this is not a wise sage.
Time and again, the evidence shows that public schools are failing our children. Many cannot even pass standard Math and English tests. My little guy (6 years old) failed reading in school and we pulled him out. Now three months later, he is almost proficient at reading. I’m no educated “genius” such as this teacher, but both my children, I am told by others, are bright, articulate, well adjusted AND passing all their tests. That is because my wife and I apply time, effort and a lot of love to what we have undertaken.
I guess a case can be made either way, but would I willingly give my child’s mind over to this person’s views? Not on your life. Education is one thing – poisoning the mind is another.
You’re joking, right?
YOU and many other teachers (your oppinions and beliefs) are EXACTLY why parents choose to homeschool. YOU have such a self-esteem problem that you wrote a blog to try and make yourself feel better. In all reality, you did just the opposite…. YOU allowed MORE parents to look into homeschooling so they don’t have to put their children around people like YOU!!!! I’m sure you have a problem with stay at home MOMs, too… YOU just made me so proud that I am doing the right thing!! There is NO WAY in this world I would want my children to fall into the hands of the wrong person (like yourself) to teach them some crazed, off-the-wall garbage like you have just written. Its b/c of people like you that America is in the shape that it is in!!!!!
Agnostic???? Hahahahaha… Yeah right!! I would love to have seen you in the twin towers as one of the people running for their lives as the airplane crashes through the building and then say you are agnostic!!!! I can guarantee you, you would have been calling out to SOMEONE!!! Sad thing is, you are a believer in SOMETHING or SOMEONE… you just don’t know the TRUTH so you call it “agnostic”.
Well, since you call HS geeky, have you really seen the way those PS kids dress lately? All of them are fashion victims. The clothes they wear are either ghothic, slutty, or just plain U.G.L.Y!!!
Yeah. Look at these non-geeky guy at the top of the blog. Public schooling is racist – there’s no one white over there))))
Yes, you are so right. I’m glad someone finally has the guts to speak the truth. We know that their are no “geeks” or socially awkward children in the government schools, no clicks, teasing, or bullying, and no school shootings because those kids are taking part in “Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America”. Intolerant and socially aberrant behaviors exist only among the homeschooling population.
And since those poor homeschoolers aren’t being taught each subject by a “professional” their test scores sadly fall way below that of their public schooled peers.
Oh wait, that’s not true! In nearly two decades of academic testing homeschool students have outperformed their public school counterparts by 20 to 40 percentage points in ALL areas of testing. http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000010/200410250.asp
So I guess if we were really concerned about the academic education of children in America we would outlaw the “professionally” run public schools that produce so many illiterate, poorly educated high school graduates each year and require every parent to homeschool their own children.
Sincerely,
Kimberly
I am guessing that your experience with home schooling is completely anectdotal, like most critics. And the fact that you are a teacher really does undercut your credibility; you are insulted that many people do not like your substandard product.
My main response would be to point out what most of us know from our own experiences: that too large a majority of government school teachers are riding the crest of the Bell Curve, barely into triple-digit IQs. How may teachers do you know who cannot discern between “there”, “their”, and “they’re” or “your” and “you’re”. Additionally, a lifetime of observations has shown me that government is bad at everything when compared to the private sector and “education” is no exception. If you want to know how good a job government schools are doing, go find some clips of Jay Leno’s JayWalking segment.
In our case we are completely non-religious home schoolers and my kids could go head to head with college educated adults in many subjects. In fact, my 11 and 14 year olds could probably outperform *you*, Ms Scaccia, in history and geography.
English major… “do you want fries with that?”
I had to check your bio to make sure you were not teaching in any of the schools near me. I would have had to file a complaint with the school board as I would not like my nieces and nephews to be exposed to you in a classroom setting.
The arrogance, prejudice and intolerance you display while accusing others of the same is one of the most egregious examples of such that I’ve seen in a while.
As far as your qualifications as an English teacher, if the above is a fair example of your work, then yes-most people can probably teach English better than you. Besides being arrogant, intolerant and prejudiced, you obviously took no time to learn anything about your subject (except perhaps what agreed with your prejudices.) But more to the point, would anyone want to *learn* English from you? I suspect there is no learning from you, only parrotting.
Although the entire essay is highly irrational, I will only point out the most common post hoc ergo propter hoc error: The assumption that children are well socialized because they have been in school. You might want to consider that any one child is well socialized in spite of having been in school.
I think it’s a shame that homeschooling has to be such a polarizing issue between educators and homeschooling parents. I think the fault for this rests on both sides of the issue. Homeschooling parents engage in too much teacher bashing and are not willing to admit that there are quite a few homeschooling disasters out there. Then there are attitudes from teachers like those expressed in this blog. Ignorant, certainly, but still coming from a place of concern for children, and no more ignorant than the things I hear coming from parts of the homeschooling community.
I can understand what is behind this anger. I understand how hard a teacher has to work, for very little pay. I understand all the government hoops a teacher has to jump through. I understand how it must look to see a poorly adjusted, academically lacking homeschool kid whose mother thinks she is superior to every teacher out there. I understand how it must hurt to hear a homeschool parent make an ignorant claim that children only really do 3 hours of work in public school.
I am very lucky to have several teachers in my circle of friends, and still others who are glad to offer me advice and even materials. I wish every homeschooler would welcome teachers into their lives.
It’s time for those on all sides to start acting like grownups. Let’s stop bashing the other side and come up with real solutions to better the lives of children, no matter what their educational environment looks like.
But, do you know what it’s like to see a socially maladjusted, intellectually inept adult in the position of “teaching” your well-adjusted child who has no academic struggles?
Because, I do.
See my site for your response.
“8. Homeschooling is selfish.”
There are many paths to homeschooling. So what are the educational options for parents when their local public school and private schools say they are unable to teach their children? This happened to us, and to several other homeschooling families we know. What should parents do when the school environment is so toxic that one’s six-year-old is contemplating suicide because it is too difficult to imagine getting through twelve more years of classroom education.
We didn’t CHOOSE to homeschool. We had no other options. The schools literally said they could not educate our kids. And not because my kids were behavior problems or a danger to others, they just didn’t “fit in” with the other students and required too much teacher time. My kids have a unique set of learning differences (profoundly gifted + dyslexic + hearing challenges — my oldest reads lips) that classroom settings just won’t accommodate. Where is the “free and appropriate education” for a kid who needs to be taking algebra in elementary school, but still struggles with writing a basic sentence with ending punctuation? How is he to learn if he can’t hear the teacher because she refuses to where an FM amplification system yet she won’t seat him where he can see her face and read her lips?????
Being forced into homeschooling required that one parent severely limit or completely eliminate earning an income. Selfish????
There are many methods for homeschooling. Perhaps it is time for another term besides “homeschool” because my kids are actually very seldom at home, neither parent teaches very many subjects (we participate in co-op classes 2-3 days a week and I hire private instructors, often college faculty, for core subjects), and my middle school son started taking classes at local colleges so he’s back in a formal classroom setting.
“But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me…”
Really? Was this an attempt at irony? Or is it just that are all your degrees are in literature, and not grammar?
My daughter who was homeschooled went to 7th grade public school this year. She has learned the art of cursing, how important sex is to the middle schooler, that getting straight “A’s” makes you a geek, and that part of teaching is to watch u-tube videos daily behind a desk.
There is so little education happening. She has requested to return to homeschooling next year and I respect her decision and honor my “geeky” child.
Perhaps your points are valid but it’s just not worth the fight. If I and my children are geeks the rest of our lives and social misfits, it’s o.k. The misfits of society and can live full and happy lives.
I’m a homeschooling parent, and one of those selfish ones you describe who are removing their geeky offspring from the public schools.
I’d just like to comment on one particular part of your essay: number 6-that we are arrogant to the point of lunacy. I’ve wondered why it is that homeschooled kids do manage so well, despite having teachers who are not experts in the subject matter. Of course I don’t have an answer, but a few ideas come to mind. Unlike at least a few of the PS teachers my kids had over the years, we care, very very much, about our own child’s education and success. It’s simply not possible for a classroom teacher to care that much about the work\progress\success of each child under their care. In fact, there were even teachers who didn’t seem to care, at all! IMO, a person who is paid to care about a child’s success is probably going to be less committed than someone who is intimately involved in every aspect of that child’s life.
I once knew a homeschooling parent who started by removing her daughter from the dedicated special ed classroom she had been in since kindergarten. She was in seventh grade and couldn’t do basic arithmetic. The girl had had several severe developmental delays. Starting from the beginning, they simply worked forward at the girl’s pace in each subject. She loved ancient history and spent a lot of time reading about it, taking field trips, etc. She was at grade level in most subjects by the end of her eighth grade year. She continued through high school, making progress and catching up with peers, then surpassing them. She took the SAT, did well (I do not know her scores) and was accepted at Brown University. She is now entering her last year there and is thriving.
Can you honestly say you think she would have had the same outcome if she had stayed in her PS special education classroom? And if you think she would have, what makes you think so? I don’t think for a minute that her teachers did not care about her, but the system, their background and prior experience, their education, conspired to make them unable to see her capabilities or find a useful way to help her to make progress. More than likely, she did not have low IQ, but a combination of learning disabilities.
I think being an expert in the subject matter one teaches is important but it is not by any means the only important qualification for teaching. And unfortunately, many teachers are NOT experts in their subject matter. Particularly at the elementary education level, teachers are lacking in the in depth knowledge of mathematics, reading instruction and the scientific method that their teaching peers in other countries (asian ones for example) possess. For more information on the mathematics issue in particular, see “Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics” by Liping Ma. The essence of this book is a study that found that Chinese teachers of elementary level students, despite having far less advanced education, have a better grasp of mathematical ideas than their American peers. I think our own system of both K-12 education and advanced education is to blame for this, not individual teachers, who are obviously doing the best they can with what they have.
I have 2 kids, one that is homeschooled and one in public school, so I experience intolerance on both sides of this issue. It is ridiculous and counter-productive to demonize either method of educating kids. Both methods have their pros and cons. What I wish is that everyone would realize that we all want the same thing- to educate children. Wouldn’t it be wonderful if we could share what we have learned? If teachers would listen to homeschoolers about what works for profoundly-gifted or special needs kids? If homeschoolers could consult teachers if they have question? I think we all have a lot to learn and a lot to share. I would like to request mutual respect and an end to intolerance on both side!
Oops! I meant “sides”, of course!
This part was funniest:
“…you can teach English as well as me?”
Perhaps you intended:
“…you can teach English as well as I can?”
Obviously, I can.
As for my arrogance as a homeschooler, I think you’ve got me beat on that as well.
Disagree with you on every point except 5; many teachers are threatened by homeschooling, so you get that one.
And… it’s the geeks, my dear, who will create new technologies, find the cure, and save the planet.
Pingback: Respectfully, I disagree « what i really meant to say
…and here are my ten reasons for keeping my kids out of school:
10. I can’t [won't]buy many the necessities of school students, such as an iPhone or ridiculously-priced brand name shoes and trendy “ensembles”.
NOTE: I know plenty of these kids are wonderful people….but why do most of them dress like whores and thugs?
9. School starts too early. We prefer to sleep in. Get up at 6 AM? Don’t think so. As a matter of fact, school ends too late as well….you’re cutting into prime pool/park/outdoor time.
8. Not enough field trips. At least one per week should be mandatory. I don’t care how proficient, creative, and well-versed the art/science/history/etc. teachers are…kids need to see and experience things in other ways than reading about them in a book.
7. God has been expelled. I don’t advocate requiring kids to pray in school. I don’t even have an issue with removing (all) religion from school. I simply have a big problem with schools teaching ideas that are contrary to the Bible. I don’t want my children to be politically correct – I want them to be morally correct.
NOTE: While on the subject of religion in school…why is it that my child can not openly pray in school or sing Christmas carols, yet the Muslim children have prayer mats furnished by the public school system? And the Jewish children have excused absences on Jewish holidays? Just wondering…I am sure there is a good reason…
6. School is so dull! Day after day of the same routine. Same room. Same desk. Same waiting in line. We have class any place we’d like….in our pool, on top of a mountain, in the woods, at the beach, in another state….the sky’s the limit!
5. I don’t like having to vacation in the summer with everyone else. I prefer late September and early May….better weather, lots cheaper, and way less crowded!
4. No time for socialization.
3. No time for family.
2. No Child Left Behind (a.k.a. No Child Gets Ahead). Teachers spend all year prepping students for a standardized test that’s so easy a monkey could pass. The kids that have that much trouble really should be left behind for a year. Or two. In the quest to bring struggling students up to a standard of mediocrity, the brightest students are forgotten and made to suffer a fate of pure boredom.
1. Total lack of efficiency. What do they DO all day from 8:00-3:00?? From my perspective, school would have my children for 7 hours per day, yet still fail to do their job and educate them…as evidenced by the copious amounts of homework sent home every night for me to deal with. I end up teaching the material to the kids anyway. Might as well homeschool…I can accomplish the same thing – with 3 kids – in half the time.
I love your approach! I’m toying with the same approach for my little one. I may be bugging you for more information hehe
10. “pejorative – having a disparaging, derogatory, or belittling effect or force”
My kids, ages 10 and 13, know the meaning of the word and recognize when the word, “homeschooler” is being used in the pejorative sense. My kids are also wiser than their parent. They know it’s usually a waste of effort to confront ignorance with intelligent dialogue.
9.The notion that “homeschooling” takes place at the kitchen table is a common misconception. Ask my 13 year old, who is currently sitting in a class at the local community college.
8.Advocacy for your child is selfish? Perhaps it’s disengenous of me to pull out my special needs child and educate at home when he could be sitting in a classroom, watching his peers through the window as they enjoy recess, but he doesn’t because he wasn’t able to complete the test in the alotted time. (By the way, that’s considered a special needs “accomodation”.)
7.I can’t really speak to this one as we are no religion, but we haven’t been struck by lightening yet.
6.I won’t compare degrees, (but you would lose.) I will say, if my own public education was so valuable, why do you consider products of public education incapable of teaching what they have supposedly learned? (Also, this pre-supposes that I would teach every subject mandated by our local school district. The number of disciplines required is ridiculous. It doesn’t make for a well-rounded person. It makes for a frustrated, bored child.)
5.As a parent, public education kind of pisses me off. All that good money after bad. All the politics. All the arrogance. All the waste. All the deadwood. All the paperwork. All the bullying, social stagnation, lack of commitment, …
4.This is a tough one to respond to, because, as you argue, my children don’t really see differences in race, sexual orientation, cultures, etc. by homeschooling. They only know that they are surrounded and loved by our family and neighbors – our African-American neighbors who invite us to their church for homecoming, our Chinese-American cousins, our white-anglo-saxon transgender renter who borrows skirts from my daughter, our reclusive, homosexual neighbors who wave from their yard… Do I need to rattle my brain for more diversity? My kids don’t know they live in a diverse neighborhood and I’m not about to point it out to them. They just live in a really cool neighborhood.
3. Socialization. Yeah, well, I’m still waiting to be shown how a group of twenty ten year olds in a classroom with one adult all day is better socialized than two kids who divide their week in the following way: at community college 4 mornings per week, at homeschool co-op class one afternoon per week, at t’ai chi one hour per week, at swimming 3 days per week, running their own business on the weekends and meeting an array of adults in a retail situation for 8 hours, on-line math chat group, book/crafting club that meets 3 hours per week, and garage band that meets for 3 hours per week. Obviously, we live in a vacuum – a very typical, homeschooling vacuum.
2. Arrogant homeschooling parents? Because we don’t listen to naysayers? If I had a nickle for every public educator who told me I “can’t”. One even told me, the system has huge flaws and she’s been trying to change the system for fourteen years and it simply can’t be done and that by attempting anything else, (i.e., homeschooling,) we were weakening our children by giving them an “easy out.” Weakening? My kids have to work for every extra curricular activity they want to try – I mean WORK to earn the extra money for t’ai chi classes and swim team, because the school system only pays for it for full-time students. I work 2 extra jobs to pay for community college, because a 13 year old is ineligible for even academic, merit-based, scholarship money, (despite a 4.0 average,) and because the public school system only pays for dual-enrollment classes if the child is enrolled full-time and at least a junior or senior. I burn up the miles on the road running my kids to programs of their own choosing, because there is no public transit available to students other than those enrolled full-time. So if I come off as arrogant, my apologies. It’s not arrogance. It’s bitterness.
1.(not worthy of comment.)
This is so sad. In addition, this is one reason why I started homeschooling one of my children. He is not your “typical” kid, and had teachers who didn’t have any patience, tolerance, or compassion. It seems that you belong to that group. What does that attitude in a teacher do to their students? Well, in my son’s case, he went from a child who taught himself to read and was doing fractions when he was 3, to a child who would shut down and lash out whenever anyone tried to teach him anything. Most of this was because he didn’t say or do what the rest of the class did, and a couple of the adults that he spent all day with, day after day, week after week, year after year, made it clear that it wasn’t OK for him to be any different than the mainstream, because it was inconvenient for them. From your comments, it is easy to see that you would feel really comfortable in his public school.
We also thought homeschooling was crazt, but because he was so miserable in the public school setting, and especially because the “socialization” was influencing him negatively, we decided to homeschool, out of desperation, for the last half of the year, and send him back the following year. Well, within 3 weeks, his supposed “anxiety disorder” v. “defiance tendency” v. “stress problem” that the school officials couldn’t quite diagnose, and couldn’t agree on which medications to treat him with, were gone. He began finding the love of learning once again. So much so, that we took his brother out of school.
It is sad that someone as educated as yourself is so arrogant to assume that your very, very small view of our world is absolute. We are people. We are each motivated by different situations. Yes, there may be homeschooled families who are arrogant. There may be homeschooled kids who are “geeks”. No, I am not as educated as you are. But shall we take a look at why many parents sent their kids to public school? I wouldn’t be so rude as to judge their reasons, although I know that there are many, many families who sent their kids to school for selfish, uncaring reasons. But how do I know this? Because my 3 kids were in school with them. They are my neighbors, and even friends.
I could say so much more, but to sum it up, when my handicapped child went back to public school for his triennial evaluation, the officials started out trying to convince us that because we are not college-trained educators, we couldn’t possibly give him or our other son what they need. They were also quite concerned with the “socialization” issue. However, after spending time with my son, and completing the battery of testing, their final recommendation, to their amused and pleased surprise was, “keep doing whatever it is you’ve been doing, because we never expected him to test so well and to be such a well-rounded person!”
Enough said. Except that, regarding your thought that religious people should “make disciples”, etc., well, we have time to do that because we homeschool and can set our own schedules. Maybe we’ll find you and be able to share the promises the Bible holds out for happiness and fulfillment. Sounds like you need it.
Homeschooling should piss you off. With the number of parents choosing homeschooling over inadequate education in America’s classrooms, your job is in jeopardy.
Agreed.
OMG this is the most ridiculous argument against homeschooling I’ve ever heard. Use some facts, will you? This is mostly your opinion. wow!
hahahaha … you just don’t get it, do you?
Geeks rule! Jocks drool. Get past your bad self and understand that your day in the sun was actually “in” highschool. Now it our turn, no matter how many unkind names you call us. Have you not noticed that geeks rule the world?
Jocks may be on the teams, but the teams are owned and managed by geeks … all grown up, and increasingly those geeks are homeschooled.
Sorry, you sad, sad little man, but this doesn’t even pass muster as an opinion, let alone an argument. It’s just a harangue; the last dying gasp of an aging jock who wishes he had his glory days back.
This article gave me a great laugh this morning. It is perhaps one of the strongest essays in favor of homeschooling I have seen.
Keep writing on this topic; your work is very helpful.
To Steve: Employing reason…what novelty! A breath of fresh air…
I returned to make clear my support, as a homeschooler, for teachers who are working in a broken system. I blame the system, not teachers, just for the record. Most homeschooling parents I know feel the same way.
Teachers are increasingly asked to do the impossible, and then blamed when they cannot bridge gaps essentially caused by a student’s home life.
I’m sorry for the teachers and students trapped in a no-win situation, but I don’t see how sacrificing my children to the Collective in order to soothe Jesse’s psychological needs is going to help.
Back off, everyone. Clearly the author suffers from a teaching disability.
http://www.theonion.com/content/news/report_increasing_number_of?utm_source=a-section
10) I’m concerned about my children becoming productive members of society and being themselves, not fitting in to the crowd.
9) They have a place for focused study, it just happens to be in our house instead of a school building. And so what? Aren’t we instilling a lifelong love of learning not confining that learning to the classroom? Have you stopped learning since leaving school?
8) Silly. It’s not my job to raise society, it’s my job to raise the 3 children God gave me. So I will do what’s best for them. And FYI, we are not rich and live in the poor side of town. But I’d rather my children stay home and learn than have to fear bodily harm all in the name of saving society.
Besides, public schools don’t even do what you claim. A child goes to the school that’s in the district they live in, so you already have the poor children segregated from the rich.
7) I’m a little tired of people assuming they know what my God wants better than me. I’ve had a lifetime of serving Him to figure out what He wants me to do. You’re not even sure He exists.
6) So the world can only learn from those that are highly educated? Guess the arrogance is spread around, eh? And since my children don’t have degrees yet, guess that negates #8, doesn’t it?
5) That’s the most honest statement yet. You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But really, that’s all this is: your opinion.
4) Is one only exposed to other cultures at school? How about by actually spending time in the real world? (which homeschoolers have more of) Huh, now that I think about it, they actually get more diversity, since they can chat with the older neighbors. Schools aren’t known for age diversity, are they?
3) See #4.
2) I believe Henry meant that high-income parents were more willing to try new things and go against the flow, not that they’re more willing to toss education to the wind. One needs a healthy dose of “go against the flow” to homeschool.
1) See#4.
10. “You were totally home schooled”. If by “geeky” you mean intelligent, loves to learn, makes high test scores and actually enjoys reading, then a little ribbing can be tolerated. If you mean “not good at sports” that is an individual characteristic.
9. “a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf”. And we get this axiom from whom? Thomas Jefferson, George Washington or perhaps Thomas Edison? Maybe Abraham Lincoln or Frederick Douglas or perhaps George Washington Carver made this brilliant observation.
8. “Homeschooling is selfish.” Ok, got me there. However, many home schooled students offer their services as tutors and teachers’ aides in the public school system.
7. “God hates homeschooling.” Are we still using logic? The primary purpose for “schooling” is education, not missionary endeavors. However, many teachers and some guest speakers manage to “sneak” the gospel in occasionally even though it is banned in most public schools today.
6. “Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?” Don’t you mean “as well as I?”
5. “As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)” I know the feeling. I feel the same way about having to pay taxes to support a failing public institution.
4. “Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Unless the student is being homeschooled at the MTV Real World house, there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room. How can a young person learn to appreciate other cultures if he or she doesn’t live among them?” Well, our children use reading. They also attend a mulit-cultural church. As for intolerance, I think you are doing a fine job at that yourself!
3. “Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.” That would depend upon the social context wouldn’t it? In an institutionalized, authoritarian often hostile environment, perhaps home schoolers might feel somewhat defensive. However, in an entrepreneural, autonomous, competitive environment they will be able to stand their ground. Home schoolers spend a larger proportion of their time interacting with adults rather than peers, which gives them an edge in some social settings.
2. “Homeschooling parents are arrogant.” That sounds rather intolerant to me.
1. “And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.” I meet homeschooled children all the time, and as a general rule they are a breath of fresh air. Perhaps, rather than pre-judging you should ask yourself this question; “What are home schoolers doing that public schools could implement in order to be more successful?” Of course you would have to admit that home schooling is successful in order to do that, and I really don’t see that happening.
see more responses @ http://www.dailypaul.com/node/94898#comment-1038520
I’m so sorry you have this clearly over-generalized opinion of homeschooled children and parents. Obviously, you know very few of us personally. Frankly, I find your article sad. It shows very strong opinions, but is rooted in ignorance. I don’t think comments can be long enough to fully address your article, but the following are a few random responses to parts of your article.
I have homeschooled my children from the beginning, and now have 4 in college…well, the oldest will be student teaching in the public schools this fall. She finished college with a 4.0 GPA…and also won some peer-voted awards–just in case you think she’s too geeky for a social life.
Since you’re admittedly agnostic, and therefore don’t know God, let me assure you that He doesn’t hate homeschooling. Deut. 6:4-10 talks about teaching our children (specifically God’s commands) as they rise, as they lie down, when they walk along the way. You can’t teach your children all day if they’re not with you. So, your biblical interpretation is skewed a bit, too.
Additionally, it’s the mature disciples who can “make disciples” of others. Children aren’t sent out to fight wars or teach others. Adults are. So, we teach and train and prepare our children to go out when they are mature.
Socialization is also not best learned by other unsocialized children. It’s best learned by adults who can teach it well.
Even public school officials talk about how children do so much better when their parents are involved in their children’s education. Why are we condemned when we fully embrace that concept?
And no, we probably can’t teach every subject as well as every teacher…but we can teach our children to learn, and we can learn along with them. Much better to learn to dig things out for ourselves than to be spoon fed.
I don’t think everyone can or should homeschool. I believe there are situations where it can be a good thing, and situations where it’s not so appropriate.
But I find articlest that make definitive statements about whole demographic groups, painting with such a broad brush to show more ignorance than they dispel. Are your accusations true in some cases? Yes, probably. But really, to talk about arrogance and intolerance in others in an article written so prejudically would be comic if it weren’t so sad.
25% illiteracy rate. I think that is enough reason to keep kids out of government schools. TGF Spell Checker.
As for assimilation. When I meet a HS’d Kid I get a firm handshake and eye contact. They see adults as peers. I meet a PS kid he is looking at his feet, and shaking hands with him is like grabbing a dead fish. PS kids are taught that adults are superior.(you may think they are buying into that “We are your friends” crap, but they ain’t.)
In case you think that I am totally against public schooling, I am not. I just think that the current system is broken beyond repair. And the only thing that can fix them is competition. The government throws money at the problem and when that doesn’t fix they just think it’s because they didn’t spend enough.
http://morethanamolehill.wordpress.com/2007/09/28/storefront-schools/
10. I’m not going to base the educational choices for my kids on whether their college peers will tease them about it. In fact, teasing rarely enters my thinking on any important decision. I’ve also taught my kids not to fear being the outsider, but to make choices based on what they feel is the right thing to do, which will sometimes be different than the choices others are making. That’s part of leadership skills. I do have a child in college, and his peers seem to respect his “out of the box” knowledge and passion for his subject; he’s had much more time to focus on it than they have and he’s excelling in his classes, not to mention taking a leadership role among his friends.
9. My kids’ “classroom” could be anywhere – a museum full of ancient Egyptian sculpture, a theater putting on a Shakespeare play, a stream teeming with plants and animals, a dance studio, or any comfy chair to curl up in with a book. Sometimes we sit at the kitchen table to do math work, as do zillions of kids doing their homework. If a more learning-specific environment seems to be needed, I can always create one.
My school district limits students to two field trips a year. We sometimes take two a *week*.
8. Our public schools are segregated by income, and thus to some extent by IQ and family literacy, not to mention culture. If my school district feels my child is of value, then they can provide incentives to keep my children there. If it’s a fight just to get my child a math class at their level, then the district obviously doesn’t value my child’s contribution. I can only fight a losing battle for so long.
7. Not touching #7, except to say that parents who want their child to have an education in which religious instruction is integrated with all subjects should not expect to get this from the public schools. Public schools are and should be secular, and we should be happy when folks who want a religious education for their children recognize this rather than try to fight it.
6. Do not assume that stay-at-home moms are uneducated. I do not think I can teach every subject. However, I have a college education and can handle the basics of most subjects. In some subjects (in my case, math and engineering) I have significantly more education than the vast majority of public school teachers. In addition, I have homeschooling friends who are well-educated in the areas in which I am lacking. Good old-fashioned cooperation is the answer. I have also found that, interestingly, the collective knowledge in Yahoo groups for college admissions for homeschoolers is impressive, and provides more information than the average high school college counselor.
5. As a homeschooling mom, I see the value in all kinds of education – homeschooling, public school, private school, homebound instruction, private tutoring, cyber-school, special programs for teen moms, schools for the deaf, alternative high schools, and so on. It’s all about finding the right fit for each kid. A good education for all kids does not imply the same education for all kids.
4. OK, this one is so wrong in my case. My school district is not diverse – not economically, not racially, not culturally. It’s white blue-collar, period. My homeschooling community is very diverse – religiously, financially, racially, culturally, urban/suburban/rural, age-wise, disability-wise, type of family, etc. In addition, instead of ignoring these differences, we make it a point to learn about the differences so that we can respect them and behave appropriately.
3. We get more than enough socialization. We spend most of every day with a diverse group of people.
2. I suppose homeschooling parents *are* risk-takers. Not “let’s jump off a cliff” risk-taking, but cautious, informed, one-step-at-at-time risk takers. Most are motivated to take this path because the traditional one isn’t working for them. In some cases, leaving a child in an educational setting that isn’t working well for them is also risk-taking, and it isn’t always the right choice.
1. Did you ever stop to think that the geeky homeschoolers you met weren’t geeky because they were homeschooled, but were homeschooled because they were geeky? If you had the kind of kid who would be eaten alive in public school, would you continue to send them? Or would you look for a way to help them learn and grow in a more supportive, gentler environment?
There are *lots* of ways to educate a child. The a la carte approach is right for some people, some of the time. One size does not fit all.
Pingback: Homeschool Motivator « Strength 4 Today
You are seriously stereotyping….I have been homeschooling my 8 year old daughter since birth. We are not religious in any form or fashion and my husband is a tattooist. We are not geeks or “Jesus freaks” we are just parents that care about our child’s education and prefer not to throw her to the wolves of the seriously corrupted public school system…..Miss/Mr Know it all.
The tone and word choice in this post suggests that the author has the maturity and perspective of a petulant public middle school student.
The post is poorly written. If my home schooled student submitted this as a persuasive paper, we would discuss the many grammatical and mechanical errors in detail before he wrote his next draft.
I am so glad that Jesse Scaccia is not my child’s teacher. Not only does he not not demonstrate mastery of the academic area in which he claims to be a specialist, but he appears to be angry and intolerant person. My bet is, he’s not well socialized.
I am not sure why I came to your website. I think it was forwarded to me because we homeschool our daughter. I read with curiosity and an open mind. I am not offended by what could be construed as personal attacks on my choices as well as on my child. Perhaps because so many of your assumptions are baseless. Surely you understand that not all of us have the same goals, methods, and motivations. Most of us have tried traditional schools, and we are simply looking for “more.” I do not imply that you cannot be successful coming out of public school- I myself am such a product. I do not imply that we or my family are better. We are grateful for being able to do it our way. What others do is not a consideration. I guess I don’t have a real response to your arguments because I find them irrelevant.
We’ve all been punked. This is not a serious article. She is fishing for blog hits. Come on.
It’s tempting to think that, but I personally know people like this.
I truly respect a good public school teacher. They are rare. The pressures of the job are enormous and the pay is meager. Your education enables you to effectively manage and hopefully teach thirty children a year.
I home-school my son, because he is on the autism spectrum and was totally misunderstood in the traditional public school class-room. Some kids succeed in school, socially and academically. Some do not. My son needs individual tutoring that I can better provide, because of my education, my flexibility and my knowledge of him as a person.
I detested the social atmosphere in the school. It was very political among the teachers and parents. Very gossipy! I made friends with some excellent teachers and parents, but unfortunately my son’s first teacher was an “ass-hat,” who’d talk about my son’s academic troubles in the boy’s presence.
Among the children, I found some real cruelty. It is almost like Lord of the Flies. One teacher cannot supervise the behavior of thirty children. It fairly cruel to expect them to do so. I found students whispering viscious things to “geeky” kids throughout the day. When the “geek” finally acts out, it is she or he, who is punished.
I think home-schooling can fail, but that its success rate is higher than that of the public school system. Nothing can beat individual tutoring for the child who needs it.
Lucy
I thought when I read your post I would be angered but by it’s conclusion was really just amused.
Here is a brief summary of our current semester of “selfishness and social awkwardness”.
My 14 year old daughter just finished 2 courses at the community college. Algebra and Intro to College studies. She received accolades and praise from her Algebra professor regarding her willingness to contribute in class, her pleasant attitude and diligence. Her grade was second highest in the class. She works 1 day per week at a therapeutic riding program training horses and helping the physically and mentally disabled riders during their lessons. Two afternoons a week she is an assistant coach for “Girls on the Run” a national public school program that encourages young girls to make fitness a habit and also teaches health, alchohol and drug prevention etc.
It is a 3 month program every spring that culminates in a 5k run for all the girls. When she was younger she participated in the program and when she became too old the program asked her to help coach and she has been doing this for 3 years.
Her 13 year old sister is also an assistant coach this year, and her 9 year old sister is a participant.
This same daughter is going to Jamaica with United Student Ministries in June to work in a health center and orphanage for a week. She has spent the last 4 months with the youth group for the local church performing job matches to raise money for this trip. Members of the community hire these kids to rake lawns, pull maple sap taps,
stack wood, paint etc, so up to 15 hours a week both my older daughters are out working hard to raise money so the older daughter and all of the other kids on the youth group “team” can have the funds to go on this trip. They have also held several group fund raisers. My kids are heavily involved in this awesome youth group. An interesting note……We are not christians and do not attend this church, but because it is such a great group our kids are long standing members. We ourselves are Unitarian Universalists. So in addition to the Christian youth group my daughters attend a program called Neighboring Faiths. They spend there Sunday mornings learning about many world religions and then visit mosques, synagogues, temples, zen buddhist centers etc to experience other religions and cultures with open minds and tolerance.
On Wednesday afternoons all three girls are in the microbiology lab at Middlebury College. I have a friend who is a professor their and she opens up her lab to them once a week. Last semester they studied Cell biology and did labs each week isolating chloroplasts from spinach and comparing Eukaryotic and Prokaryotic Cells etc. This semester they are studying anatomy and have dissected flowers, grasshoppers, worms, sharks, starfish, clams, frogs, fetal pigs and cats.
This fall they will be studying Forensic Science.
Oh, and the same friend was a spanish major before she got her doctarate in Microbiology and will be teaching the girls spanish this summer.
On Monday’s they take an Art/Creative writing class. Currently they are preparing for an Art Show opening at 2 public libraries this summer.
Their art and poetry will be displayed for a month at each venue.
My 13 year old is an avid soccer player and plays year round indoors and out. She plays with a local soccer club in the spring and winter, plays with the local public high school in the fall and does soccer camps in the summer.
She is also teaching her self to play the acoustic guitar along with her Dad. On thursday night she plays the bass guitar in a local band jam with her best friend and her best friend’s father.
She has been offered a job at Middlebury College for the summer and will be working as a lab assistant for 6 weeks funded by a grant for medical research.
She wants to be a Forensic Anthropologist and so independently studies anatomy etc.
She is a gregarious funny kid, who could be a stand up comedian if she wanted. All the boys in town pine for her.
Daughter # 3 is 9 years old. I work 2 days a week at a Veterinary Clinic. She comes with me often and volunteers. She works in the boarding facility cleaning cages and feeding. She also socializes kittens and checks in cats, weighing them and checking them for fleas, ear mites etc.
She also volunteers at the local library shelving books, checking books in and out answering phones. In her spare time she plays the Ukelele.
We live next to a nursing home that I work a few hours a week at and have for years. My girls have spent many hours reading to senior citizens, serving them lunch and dinner or just spending a quiet after noon playing checkers.
The 2 older girls have steady babysitting jobs one or 2 days a week and are also on call for babysitting. Unlike many teens they are available during daytime hours when other kids are in school. The youngest daughter is not old enough to babysit but does occasionally work as a mother’s helper for our neighbor.
My middle daughter also volunteers one after noon a week at a local bakery cleaning etc.
These 3 young ladies have spent their lives working, playing and volunteering in very diverse social enviroments. We have done girls scouts, 4-H, knitting group, etc. They are comfortable with kids their own age, senior citizens, toddlers, babies,
disabled persons. They are better socialized then any public school kid I know and unlike most public schooled kids can actually hold an intelligent conversation with peers and adults alike.
I have barely touched on their studies and activities because to describe it all would take pages.
Let me ask you this? How many public schooled kids do you know that have walked the Freedom Trail? can cook a full balanced meal without assistance? Can bake bread? Manage their own bank account? Register for their own college classes? Milk a goat? Assist a goat or sheep during labor? Process wool? Knit a hat or scarf? Trim a horses feet? Educate you on Asian history? Have visited a egg farm? Have had conversations with an Oyster farmer? Can tell you whether a human skeleton was from a man or woman just by reading the bones? Can remove taps from a Maple tree? Have seen an elderly person just after they died lying peacefully in their bed before the undertaker has taken them away? Have run a 5k race or run a leg in a marathon? Have done the penguin plunge to raise money for Special Olympics? These are the same 3 girls that “hangout” with their friends any opportunity they get. The same 3 girls who every one in town knows and compliments.
Here are some thing my girls don’t know that they would have learned in public school. They don’t know how to be cruel to anyone. They don’t know how to tease. They haven’t been taught by their peers and teachers that drinking, drugging, bullying and sex are rites of passage to becoming a normal human being.
They have not been confined to thinking only within “The Box”
I homeschool because I want to raise smart, kind,
people who will do something meaningful with their lives. I don’t see the public schools turning this out. We are not affluent and live on a struggling family farm. I do not assume that I can teach them everything they learn in school but I can find them people who can, and usually the experiences and education are much richer than anything the school could provide.
I barter milk eggs and farm products for most of their classes. I facilitate their education rather than shove it down their throats. I have spent years building up social and education networks for them. Most homeschooled families I know do exactly the same.
I do agree that their are homeschooling situations that are scary, when children are kept away from society and not given a broad world view. But this is the exception rather than the rule and there are also many scary situations in the schools.
I think your generalized critique of homeschooling is very ignorant and misinformed, and my convictions are reinforced by your article as it reminds me that I would never want my children educated by someone like you. Best of luck in your journey to a tolerant and open mind.
RD
Wow, I was reading some of the comments and I just had to stop. The vitriol against non-Christians was truly shocking.
I went to a public elementary school where one third of the students were Jewish and a significant number were Catholic and then later to a public high school where forty percent of the students were black. What I learned from interacting with my peers was more important than any discreet fact I learned. The fear that some of the homeschooling commentors have about public schools and the loathing towards the children who attend them is jawdropping. Are your neighborhoods really so dangerous?
I came looking for facts supporting a “case against homeschooling.” Instead, I find only baseless, arrogant opinions, name-calling, Bible-thumping and ad hominem attacks full of ignorance.
Such thinking must be a product of the public fool system, so not only will I not waste my time with a rebuttal or criticism, I also won’t waste my time returning to this blog. You got your one hit out of me.
I am glad to see that the homeschooling parents put their two cents in.
I believe that the author, as a self-designated agnostic, would have been doing anything except “Bible-thumping”. He was making a snarky point that Christian parents are “denying” their children the opportunity to be light and salt in the public school system by homeschooling them. It’s snarky in that first of all, he himself is an agnostic, and in that second of all, he knows full well (being a public school teacher) any attempt by a Christian child to “proselytize” would be summarily quashed. Even if the Christian child was seen to be a good and kind person, if they couldn’t publicly attribute those qualities to their Christian beliefs, in what way would they be effectively testifying of those beliefs?
This is worth watching…
I would like to respond to your story’s 10 points directly. I will note here that I have two homeschooled children who are now in college.
10. This points out society’s continual desire to create outsiders and factions. The fact that you think this is significant enough to be one of your top ten reasons for not homeschooling indicates the level at which you place importance of “fitting in.” We homeschoolers have very little concern about “fitting in.” Rather, we have a desire to stand out as exceptional. If this breeds snide remarks from those trained in traditional schools, it simply reveals the immaturity bred from such a setting.
9. Personally, my most profound learning (even when I was in public school as a kid) occurred when I was at home – usually reading good literature or other subjects in which I was interested. Your opinion that there is only one desirable setting for learning reveals your lack of understanding that learning takes place in every setting in which a living human encounters. There is nothing magical about an institutional setting for learning. In fact, learning best occurs in the place the student wants to be.
8. You’re spot on that homeschooling is selfish. I absolutely want the best for my children and I am in no way concerned that others of lesser ability or desire to learn are not around to impinge on their success. As it is, institutional teachers, by necessity, must devote a greater amount of their time to those with lesser understanding and ability. I have no desire whatsoever to have my children slow down so that others can catch up. It is time people realize that this kind of selfishness is exactly why we, in the past, have had the most successful and prosperous nation in the world. It certainly wasn’t prosperous because successful people waited for everyone else to catch up with them.
7. As a English teacher, you did a mighty poor job of substantiating your claim that “God hates homeschooling.” When I went to church, I was told that “God is love.” Nowhere in any scripture from East or West have I seen any documented evidence that “God hates homeschooling.” Neither have you, but nice try.
6. Your educational accomplishments are obviously a source of arrogance for you. I freely admit that I helped homeschool my children though I have no college degree at all. Yet, as a 15 year-old, my son recently became an honors student at a local community college, including getting an “A” and a “B” in Composition I, and Composition II respectively. You have the misled notion that a degree on your wall means you necessarily will have better-educated students. It is the students who learn. It is they who get the credit for studying, reading, and learning. Your desire to be recognized as better because of the schooling and degrees is the very source of your arrogance.
5. Deal with it. It pisses me off that a supposedly educated individual could put a stupid comment like this in as one of 10 primary reasons for not homeschooling. You’re obviously lacking good support for your thesis.
4. “Could breed intolerance and racism?” Are you here to tell us that those things would never come out of a public school? Beside that, the word “could” is a wide-open door. Homeschooling could breed criminals. It could breed terrorists. It could breed rapists. So what’s your point? If something “could” happen by a certain course of action, does that mean one should not do it? If I start a business, it could fail. If I get married, it could end in divorce. If I eat ice cream, I could get fat. If I walk down the street, I could get mugged. Once again, it sounds like you’re lacking sufficient support for your thesis.
3. You said, “Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.” So I ask you, ” Do you imagine that homeschooling somehow takes place in a vacuum?” My children in particular spent very little time with groups of other children, though they did at times. Yet they were daily conversing with well-read, intelligent adults (my wife and I) for hours and hours. They learned in minute detail how to speak intelligently and comfortably with people. That is proper socialization.
2. Your belief that homeschoolinig parents are taking a risk with their children’s education is again unsubstantiated and another way you preen your arrogance. Although you would love to take the credit for children learning, you cannot do so. Children want to learn and will do so regardless of what you or I do. Homeschoolers succeed because they make it easy to put the best possible sources of learning in front of children. The children, then, learn by themselves. There is almost zero risk that a homeschooled child won’t be at least as well educated as those at a public school.
1. I find it entertaining that your number one reason against homeschooling is simply your desire to produce factious labels. My homeschooled daughter, partially schooled by me, only a high-school graduate, is now in a private college where she gets very good grades. In her spare time, she rides horses, goes ice climbing, rock climbing, caving, canoeing, and a myriad of other non-geeky activities. Counter to your belief that only school is the best place to learn, she tells us that when she’s not actually in class, she sits outside under the trees to read and study and do homework.
My son, who just finished college Composition II at age 15, just wrote a paper for that class. The topic was the advantages of homeschooling. Although I’m obviously somewhat biased because he is my son, what I observe is that his handling of the topic was much better researched than yours AND did not include petty opinions at all. He stated facts and substantiated them with research from peer reviewed material. I suggest you do the same next time.
Pingback: Homeschooling « A Slice of Polis
Your list completely affirmed my choice to homeschool. Thanks!
Absolutely. Me too.
Home Schooling is not a personal vendetta or affront to public/private school teachers.
Many college professors and legislators send their children to private or home school. Legislators make big decisions about our public schools every day and yet a significant portion don’t utilize this supposedly wonderful form of free education with highly credentialed teachers like yourself.
I have homeschooled my 6 children for 12 years. My oldest (16 years old) just received a very large scholarship to the best public university in the state where we live.
All of this was accomplished while our family’s income was (and still is) below poverty level. I do not have a college degree. I’m just a mom who loves and cares for her children.
Congratulations on all of your credentials, but there are other ways to succeed and in an open and pluralistic society we should be free to pursue all of them!
Just curious: are there any other non-believers reading this who homeschool their children? I have met a lot of homeschoolers but only one other family who were non-believers.
Just curious; thanks.
We’re non-practicers, although I am a recovering Catholic (left the church at 14). Does that count?
Heh! Don’t most Catholics become non-practicing? I say that as a born-and-raised Irish Catholic married to a woman raised by very Catholic Latin American immigrants.
I am actually the A-word (and not the wishy-washy agnostic A-word), but I stress that I am the lowercase-A version. I do not go confront people a la Richard Dawkins but I have far too much knowledge of science to believe in any deity at all. My kids share my lack of theism, as you might imagine.
We are homeschoolers that have never taken our children to church, never taught a religion, and never pushed any religious agenda.
I am wondering, Publius, how knowledge of scienc necessarily excludes a deity? One thing I’ve been pondering is how the theory of evolution can coincide with the second law of thermodynamics.
In real life, we can observe the regular tendency toward disorder. My house, for example, doesn’t get cleaner and more organized all by itself.
Yet, somehow I am to believe that some vast explosion took place eons ago and from this tremendous act of disorder and destruction, we have planets neatly revolving around suns, moons around planets, and, more significantly, random protein molecules organizing themselves into first simple, then complex life-forms.
Have you ever observed an explosion which resulted in greater order?
None of this complies with entropy theory. Either the second law of thermodynamics is wrong, or the Big Bang and evolution theory is wrong. Which is it?
To your first point, science requires testable theories… and evidence. An old book is simply not evidence and science does indeed explain the natural world in ways that no religion can ever approach. Someone once made the point that if the bible were written today that it would say that god created electrons and higgs bosun particles, and that is interesting food for thought, but the fact remains that the religion of one age is the literary entertainment of a later age. The Greeks considered it *religion*, not “mythology”. When will Christianity become mythology?
To your second point, I highly recommend that you go to the library and get a copy of Richard Dawkins’ book The Selfish Gene. The point that he makes is that there is a natural tendency towards *stability* that makes things come together. The first chapter is simply brilliant.
I would respectfully submit that your skepticism about natural selection is based upon a lack of knowledge. Go look up Archaeopteryx or Ambulocetus or the very recently found Darwinius masillae. It may still be called the “Theory” of Natural Selection, but it is accepted fact among people with any real depth of biological scientific knowledge.
If nothing else I hope that the biased author of the blog posting that started these conversations can appreciate the vibrant diversity of thoughts and beliefs demonstrated by the group that she denigrated.
Rudolph Steiner once spoke about a science experiment of his time in which one must stir the ingredients, then observe what comes of it. Apparently, teachers at the time used this experiment as “proof” that no higher power is needed to create the reaction, concoction, or whatever it was they were making. Mr. Steiner liked to always point out that someone had to do the stirring. . . .
I will look up this title. However, you said, “The point that he makes is that there is a natural tendency towards *stability* that makes things come together.” This point is, indeed, the second law. Heat moves to the area of lesser heat until equilibrium (stability?) is established. This cannot explain life forms developing from random proteins because this would require heat to consolidate in specific areas rather than dispersing to equilibrium. Stability is heat dispersion while organization is heat concentration.
Similarly, those who study astronomy find the universe expanding in every direction as one might expect from an explosion. Yet explosions, as I already stated, are always destructive acts, not creative ones and planets organizing into solar systems with order and regular motion is not the equilibrium or stability that is achieved after an explosion.
Perhaps you can answer: If natural selection is the governor of species, why is it that most species are not already extinct in favor of the most adaptable and successful (man)?
I will look forward to the works you suggest.
I highly recommend that you subscribe to Scientific American magazine. It will blow your mind.
If by non-believer you mean non-Christian, then yes, I’m a non-believer who homeschoolers. I do believe, though – just not in what you do
I’m part of a small group of homeschooling families: 1 Christian, 2 Catholic, 3 Atheist, at least 2 Agnostic, others “undeclared,” for lack of a better word.
publius, have you not been reading the comments? (yes, i realize it takes hours to read thru all the comments- i’m a bit compulsive that way.) if you do, you will see that *many* of them have been written by “secular” (non-religious) homeschoolers.
(personally, i am what you would call a “conservative christian” or a “believer”. however, i see the increasing number of “secular” homeschoolers as a good thing.)
Face it, home schooling (HS) pisses you off for two principal reasons:
1. You believe parents have an obligation as part of some great social compact to turn their kids over to a collective community. Why don’t you just salute with an extended arm, say “Sieg Heil!” and get it over with?
2. You can’t deal with the fact that parents with no teaching credentials can beat the public school system.
You must surely realize that no one except the very poor would use public schools if they did not enjoy the artificial subsidy of taxation. Try to compete without it? God forbid!
Provided that parents are disciplined, HS kids get better educations because they can learn at their own pace. Public schools are mostly one-size-fits-all traps where smart kids are held down. HS kids routinely win the spelling bees and math competitions. They score higher SAT’s. Deal with it.
Arrogance? Who’s the arrogant one here? Methinks it is a tax-eating teacher. Go get a job in the private sector.
Eat your words Jesse. I’m sure you’ll really appreciate all the publicity from the homeschool community considering you’ve just insulted their whole way of life. Somone just submitted your article to the homeschool e-mail loop. Good Luck with that!
I’m unsocialized you say? I don’t think so. Four days a week I attend community college. One day a week I have book club. And on another day I join my friends for a garage band they started. And on Fridays I have Tia Chi.
Do I feel like an outsider? No. Why would I? I finish what work I have for the day, and then I hang with friends.
You think homeschooling takes place at the kitchen table? Haha, you make me laugh. Homeschooling is outside, on the computer, in a classroom, etc. depending on what subject we’re working on.
Homeschoolers are selfish you say? I left Public School after six years of battling with STUPID pencil pushing administrators, and teachers, trying to make the school a better place.
Personally, I am not religious.(no further comment)
Homeschoolers are Arrogent? Perhaps, disgruntled with the public school system.
So, homeschooling pisses you off? Haha, as someone else said, you should be pissed off, because of the number of students who are leaving public school to become homeschooled, because Public School sucks.
Homeschooling could cause racism? You have to be kidding me!!! You may be a teacher, but you must be blind to the problems in Public School. When I entered middle school there was a terrible amount of racism among the students.
Once again, back to being unsocialized. That’s ridiculous, so don’t give ME any of that “all homeschoolers live in a closet” crap.
Homeschoolers are Geeky? Wow, now you’ve really done it. I’ll let other Homeschoolers and their parents chew you out for that one. Muahaha.
Jesse, you assert: 1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
My daughter was homeschooled for a year. I do not regret having taken the sabbatical, I only regret not having done it longer, much much longer.
After that year, my daughter was accepted to a regional selective magnet math/science/technology high school. It’s a public school. And many of the kids are nerdy, or geeky as you would call them. And guess what? The same criticism is hurled at this school. That the kids are nerds, that they are homogenous (never mind that this place is about the most multi-cultural diverse place I’ve ever encountered) and yes, called arrogant by other area high schoolers. All the insults you lob at homeschoolers are lobbed at these school kids too; that they are elitist, fabulously wealthy (count us out right there), and isolated from mainstream students.
I have to laugh. She’s back in school, Jesse, she’s doing what you want her to do and this choice still comes under fire.
Maybe I might not have pulled her out if the school didn’t teach to the test, ask my teen sleep phase delay teenager to be in class at 7:20 am, waste inordinate amounts of valuable classroom time, and then send home all the work, much of it should have been completed in the seven hours she spent at school, so that she never had time to socialize, precisely what you claim she missed when she left. Or read. Or play. Or travel, even if it’s only to see grandma. Get this. My daughter did far more socializing OUT of school than in it!
Jesse, I appreciate your multiple English degrees. That’s my area and passion as well. Then I trust you won’t give your students Monday morning factoid quizzes on the book. My daughter and I surmise this is done to catch the students who didn’t bother reading or were using abbreviated study guides in lieu of the novel. Given that my daughter is a ravenous voluminous voracious reader, we don’t bother wasting our time like this in homeschooling.
Best reason to homeschool? We can do twice as much in half the time. What do we do with all those newfound hours? We’re in the community. Our children are in classes, volunteering, doing social action projects, taking community college classes, attending their house of worship (we homeschooled for academic reasons, not religious ones), hiking, skiing (we homeschooled on a shoestring budget so we took walks and hikes), canoeing, visiting museums, art galleries, attending free outdoor concerts, ballets and Shakespeare productions. You call that isolated. I call that living! And learning.
You are concerned I might not have a history degree. But I can take my daughter to the Capitol, can’t I? Or the Supreme Court. Or the Library of Congress. Or the National Archives. You think she should have stayed in school that 8th grade year. I researched my options and knew the upcoming social studies curriculum would be civics. I also found out the students at what is considered the best middle school in my county, were not taken on any field trips into Washington, DC all year long!
That’s more a fault of the school than the teacher, but what’s the difference? I’m interested in providing my daughter with an exciting lively education, not excuses. Maybe the teacher had a degree in history. But he never took them anywhere, they learned US government from a textbook. Few would argue that I didn’t do it better.
Wow!! I think every rebuttal above speaks to the frustration I experienced as I read your asinine blog post! I am a FORMER teacher who quit my job in order to homeschool my children after recognizing the shortcomings of public/private education.
I was amazed at your contradictory list of reasons against homeschooling. Especially when considering your list of “credentials” that you provide; “My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles.” I think this provides further proof that you can not train any one person to be a good teacher, it is rather a calling and something that is ingrained in that person that makes someone a good teacher. I would like to point out that this is often what makes a caring parent the perfect person to teach their child – they care. Also, the way you write is inflammatory, derogatory, and hypocritical. You end up making the case FOR HOMESCHOOLING! Honestly, you are one of the reasons why I chose to take my children out of the public/private school setting and homeschool them. To provide a supportive, open, and encouraging learning environment.
Hmmm…let’s take a look at your top 10.
10. Geeky – this is just name calling. Yes, I do believe they teach this one on the playground.
9. Sarcasm and generalizations – not a very effective way of making a point but again, an often used tool in the public/private classroom.
8. Selfish Parents – Selfish because this article refers to “white”, “upper-income”, and “well-educated”. You assume that it automatically excludes people of color, lower-income, and poorly educated from homeschooling? That is called an ASSUMPTION and you can not base an entire point on one newspaper article, as it leads to generalizations. My take on this article is that there are many UNSELFISH families. Families who are willing to cut corners in order to allow themselves the privilege of homeschooling because they care about their child/children.
7. Hateful God – By the way, as an agnostic, I think you are the last person to speak to what God hates.
6. Arrogant lunatics – You refer to your list of credentials to teach English but based on your post, I would rate you poorly on use of evidence, inflammatory tone, and overuse of slang words, which I believe to often be used due to lack of ability to express oneself otherwise.
5. Pisses you off – The fact that what others do the does not impact you directly seems strange that it can “piss you off”. This implies an emotional response. Are you bitter about being homeschooled? I think there are bigger and more personal issues here for you. Also, see response to #6 in regards to the use of words, such as ‘piss’.
4. *Intolerance and racist – Well, if you’re referring to yourself, I believe your post provides ample evidence of such, but your asterisk implies that intolerance and racism of others is a potential side-effect of homeschooling. Homeschoolers everywhere counter this with activities called reading, outreach, and open-minded and tolerant discussions.
3. Socially unprepared – My question is, socially unprepared to what, roll a joint, succumb to peer pressure, get pregnant, belittle others, waste class time because they wish they were anywhere else, talk back to adults, drink alcohol, hope for a fire alarm or a bomb threat so the day will go more quickly, become suicidal, get in fights, or drop out of school?
2. Arrogant gamblers – The only arrogant gamblers are the parents who send their child to school thinking that all of those child’s problems at home and at school should be solved by the teacher(s) hoping that their child will return home “fixed”.
1. Geeky*** – You conclude by referring back to your #10 reason. Your comments on geeky mean squat. I thought we’d include the definition from Wikipedia; The word geek is a slang term, noting individuals as “a peculiar or otherwise odd person, especially one who is perceived to be overly obsessed with one or more things including those of intellectuality, electronics, etc.”[1] Formerly, the term referred to a carnival performer often billed as a wild man whose act usually includes biting the head off a live chicken, bat, snake or bugs. The 1976 edition of the American Heritage Dictionary included only the definition regarding geek shows. This word comes from English dialect geek, geck: fool, freak; from Low German geck, from Middle Low German. The root geck still survives in Dutch gek: crazy, and in the Alsatian word Gickeleshut: geek’s hat, used in carnivals[2]. Unfortunately, “geeky” kids everywhere are ridiculed and tormented. You provide evidence, once again, of that very cruelty.
I would suggest renaming your blog post, The Case for Homeschooling with Evidence Provided by a Public School Teacher.
I suspect many would argue that you didn’t do it better. Taking someone to a hospital doesn’t teach them medicine.
COMPULSORY SCHOOLING
The school is a creation and instrument of sovereign and dominating interests and constitutes a place inadequate for life, education and creative instincts providing personal development and survival. What can contribute to the education, paideia and the survival of persons lives and acts outside school. It is found in the persons and in the network between persons and society, in the relations between persons and between persons and society together, with the rest of nature. The school stands as an obstacle in the path of persons aspiring to a life worth living. The “better school education”, the “better school”, the “other school”, the “school in another society” etc, all these schools constitute descriptions and expressions of the one unscrupulous penitentiary: the school of compulsory “education”. The fundamental objective of teachers is to minimize the consequences of the totalitarianism of “jail education “, considering at the same time the constant aim of delivering pupils from the bondages of compulsory schooling. The success of combining this aim with education, paideia and survival provides an excellent field, by which the level of conscience of any teacher can be appreciated.
As someone who attended both public and private schools, it was my assumption that my children would attend schools with their age-mates. And indeed, the two eldest did, and did reasonably well, if you discount the occasional horrorshow teacher and add in the occasional exceptional one. One has graduated from college, one is finishing her degree, and in general, they are both upstanding, talented young women.
However, the public school system that served them adequately has changed in the years since they’ve graduated. The end of court-ordered busing has sent our county hurtling headlong into resegregation. A change of superintendent meant a slide in ranking from third in the state to twenty-seventh (and in a state which is routinely ranked in the bottom five, that’s pretty significant). Florida’s ever-changing population has shifted, in my county, from families and retirees to absentee owners with second homes and the poorest of the poor. Families have moved out, to the suburban fields o’ houses north and east of us.
What this has left us with is a home we love, in a city we like, which has astonishingly poor schools. My daughter’s IEP was not only not followed, but unknown to her classroom teachers, until two months into the year (and only surfaced then because of my insistence). They were unable to accommodate my son’s math ability, and suggested we supplement him at home– which we did, happily, for a few years, and which led to him starting pre-algebra in fourth grade. After awhilt though, it occurred to us that given the amount of time I was spending supplementing the schools and attending Wrightslaw seminars in order to advocate for my child, we could be investing more directly in their future. And so we have.
My daughter, who required both antianxiety meds and stimulants to get through a typical day, is off all meds. This may have something to do with the fact that she’s no longer being bullied– er,”socialized”– by the thug factor in her classroom. She smiles, laughs, plans anime parties and trips to the beach with friends (most, but not all, homeschooled). She has written a novel, created a comic strip, and researched topics as varied as rabbit husbandry and the Panic of ’73. My son is working at his own speed in math, writing and spelling. He apparently finished fourth grade unable to write in cursive or spell at a second grade level– not because of any disability, but lack of instruction. He is now up to an acceptable level for a rising middle schooler in both, and learning geometry. Both are learning AutoCAD and Powerpoint. (Apparently, despite the fact that my degrees are not in teaching, and that my coursework included microbiology and set design rather than crowd control and Romalda Spalding, we are more than capable of teaching my children.)
Does all this make me arrogant? Nah– I was that way before I had kids. Does it make me neglectful of my fellow citizen? Possibly, if you’re offended by the fact that I choose to expend my charitable energy in ways which serve the community as a whole, and not only those from the ages of 5-11.
As for whether God hates homeschooling…mine don’t. And frankly, I’m surprised that someone who claims such a devotion to diversity would assume that we all care what the Abrahamic God thinks.
“We aren’t here to socialize, people.” lol. I can’t tell you how many times I heard that. Schools are to educate. Not for kids to socialize. Has that changed? No wonder US students are falling behind the rest of the industrial world.
As for racism, surely, at some point in your quest to receive your teaching degree, you learned about institutional racism? About the failing, underfunded, inadequate schools located predominately in low-income areas, largely populated by minority groups? No? Then your education was lacking as well.
My kids are home schooled. We live in a very diverse neighborhood (in fact, I suspect we are in the minority in my neighborhood, lol). Our home school co-op is diverse. Our church is very diverse, with a large number of different ethnic groups who attend regularly. My children interact with all sorts of people, from all walks of life, income levels, and ethnic backgrounds, on a daily basis.
Perhaps, before damning home educators as a group, you should learn about the many tools we have in our arsenal. We can take advantage of co-ops, enroll our children in private tutoring, utilize local community colleges or university model schools, get our kids involved in zoo/botanical garden/science center programs geared strictly towards home schooled children. We have a vast array of educational opportunities which we can share with our children.
Perhaps that’s why home schooled children consistently score higher on state tests than public schooled children.
I don’t really care much what a public educator thinks of my choice on educating my children, although my aunt, a PE of many decades, praises me for it. My only concern is that my children receive the education they need to function well in this world.
I’m somewhat mystified that Jesse would state that people should not be homeschooled because the term is used as an insult. Ignorant children insult their peers by calling them “gay”, too. Does the same theory apply? Should we all modify our existence to appease the bullies and the abysmally unaware?
Again, so much for “diversity”. Guess that word only applies to pigmentation.
Mr. Scaccia,
To your points, I categorically disagree with each of them and will deconstruct them in order:
10) I would argue that ‘geekiness’ is a condition that occurs as a result of personality rather than environment; to whit, my wife and I were both ‘nerds’ in high school in the 80′s and were pretty much doomed to bear geeky/nerdy kids as a result. A fact, I must say, that I am quite proud of!
9) Education occurs where ever there is an opportunity to learn; that is Life itself! Restricting learning to a classroom is foolish. What we as homeschooling parents want to communicate is that very idea that learning is a lifelong thing and should be embraced everywhere at every opportunity. At the kitchen table eating breakfast and doing math or feeding people at the homeless shelter, our children see and do things in the real world.
I didn’t finish college, am self educated in my profession (network design, architecture, and engineering), and I am quite sure that I make at least 30% more than you in salary. I am not better than you – I just got bored with college and went and did it on my own and am better for the experience. I am living proof that education, experience, and success are all tied to learning wherever you are and that a formal education is merely a formality.
8) I agree with you; Homeschooling IS selfish! It is a human prerogative to seek the best for our offspring wherever we can and the six sigma of homeschooling parents want to give the best of themselves and what they can for their children. In that regard, I am a totally unrepentant and utterly selfish bastard and would fight you tooth and nail to remove my choice to homeschool my children.
7)God is pretty clear that we as parents should raise our children according to our principles lest they forget the instruction of their fathers and wander away. I know Pagan, Agnostics, Atheists, Jews and Muslims who homeschool their kids and at their core they want to make sure that their kids are well grounded in their beliefs. It’s not just us Right Wing, Gun-Toting, Bible Thumping, Pick Up Truck Driving, Upper Middle Class, Homeless Feeding, College Educated types either!
6) Yeah, well arrogance comes with proof of past performance so you’ll have to excuse the homeschooling parent who crows about their kids successes on a standardized test or how well they are doing over all.
My wife, a BSN, teaches Biology and Science and I, a Journalism School refugee, teach English and writing (I’ve been professionally published, have you?). When we need to utilize outside resources, we go to community colleges, co-ops, lectures, and colleges and get the resources we need. In fact, we do as much prep as you do – if not more – for our kids and also have a 5:1 Student to Teacher ratio.
I don’t think that today’s teachers, for the most part, can claim that same degree of success for their students that homeschooling parents claim despite the silly amount of money we spend in this country on public education. There are bigger issues with the NEA and Union parasites in public schools that block success. At our homeschool, we are union-free and proud of it!
5) Being pissed off about something without fully quantifying or qualifying the why and how could indicate defensiveness or ignorance or both. Are you threatened by ‘The People’ taking the welfare of their children into their own hands? Are you a Statist? A Communist? or just a good old-fashioned control freak?
4) Well, it ‘could breed intolerance’ but so does public school. Intolerance for anything not Politically Correct, White, Male, Christian or otherwise affiliated. Intolerance is in the mind of the parent who passes along their beliefs wherever that parent is with the child. Living in the South, we’ve met our share of public schooled bigots and misogynists – and those are just the adults.
3) Well, socialization is actually about how well someone integrates into society; social mores, skills, and attitudes. I’m sure you have collegues who aren’t very ‘social’ and most likely have been that way their whole lives. The six sigma of the homeschooled students I know tend to have more social exposure than homeschoolers, are more polite, and tend to speak better than their public school peers.
Daniel Pink, in his book, Free Agent Nation points out that nowhere in real life are people sequestered with people their own age, background, or scholastic success and my question is ‘why do so in education?’ We don’t and most homeschooling parents do not and that is where they get a better grip on the real world across racial, cultural, religious, and ethnic backgrounds.
2) Am I arrogant? Hell yes, I am! I’ve worked very hard to get where I am as a man, as a husband, as a provider, and as a father and I’m proud of it. I chose something better for my kids than I ever had – including being in the ‘gifted and talented’ class once a day. I chose to put my kids in a the same 5:1 ratio all day and to give them the advantages of an education unfettered by teacher egos and teacher arrogance – like yours.
1) Yes, I have, all the time and I’d say that overall their geekiness is a badge of honor. If it is a pejorative term, then let it be a scorn borne with pride! Not all of us can – or should be – failed high school jocks who teach English.
BRILLIANCE!!
We live in a diverse neighborhood & my children relate with children within our neighborhood who are both older and younger than they. They hear Turkish, Egyptian & Spanish around them regularly. Our homeschool community is as diverse as our school system–all races, ages & religions are parenting my children’s peers. We know Muslims, Catholics, Mormons, Buddhists, Atheists, Bahai, and more, though we are a Christian family. I think you are poorly misinformed about homeschooling.
Additionally, while I did not complete my Master’s degree, I was pursuing an MA in Education, and have a BA in Communication. Among my parenting/homeschooling peers are many with PhD’s, MD’s and MA/MBA, etc. We are a well-educated bunch, so we do not come at this task lightly. Neither do we homeschool alone.
We share our skills with others so that my children (at the tender ages of 3 & 6) have had opportunities to learn about simple machines from an engineer, witness a human heart dissection with an MD, study famous fiction together in book club, and learn ASL from their mother, as I taught a classroom of their peers over 12 weeks.
Your vision of homeshooling misses the reality of a homeschooler’s life. My son will have an overnight experience on a WWII submarine in October–this is better than a field trip! He’ll be with 20 other homeschoolers, and…his dad! We devote ourselves to education that is deep with CONNECTIONS. In my MA program, connecting learning with concrete object lessons was key–I have an opportunity to do this Every Single Day.
My son is not “behind” in his academics, and he has so many friends I have as much trouble hosting a birthday party as any public school child’s parent does when the “obligatory” invitations have to go out for those peers with whom a child is constantly in contact.
I am not seeing any of these red herring fallacies coming to pass around us–and I’m certain we know many more homeschoolers than you.
My Ivy League education did not afford me as much education as my days as a parent–& I know my children’s quirks & unique needs best, as I have them in small group every day, while also bringing them to the experts (say, an astronaut for a lesson on space technology) for large group experiences.
And, on that “geeky” note, one reason many parents pull their children from PS, is because their children have naturally “geeky” ways which are not appreciated in PS, where they are teased & bullied. They are often seen as “smarty pants” & marginalized by their peers. In a home setting, they are given the attention they need in the areas where their brains race ahead, and offered patience in the areas where they might not seem “normal.” Certainly you can recognize that hazing & bullying are out of control in our country. Why wouldn’t a parent be making the wise choice to protect his/her child from violence & danger at school, if they are inherently “odd” in some way?
Oh! And, on that note, Geeks rule the world, you know. Hmmm… I’m thinking about Steve Jobs & Bill Gates, and Thomas Jefferson & Thomas Edison, and Benjamin Franklin & Albert Einstein! I mean, Albert Einstein!? How weird can a guy get? Yet…
[Can I call this one a p.s. without the "script?"]
p.s. We are FAR from wealthy. We have made wise decisions with our finances, have not gotten sucked into that American Dream that is now bankrupting our nation, and we put what little money we have where our mouth is. I invest in education–my tax dollars continue to pay your salary, while I work a part time job to pay for my childrens’. AND, we just choose to rent instead of buy. AND, we get used cars instead of new. AND, we take advantage of thrift stores & Freecycle to supply our school paper/textbooks/educational games, etc. instead of living the high life. We are of “humble” means, but my son seems to think we are wealthy. Maybe that’s because he’s part of an intact family that values together time–and he isn’t chasing after the values of his peers, as misdirected by TV advertising as they may be. No. He is focusing on the plight of the world, and knows amazing geography for age 6. Talk to me in 10 years about whether it was more important for him to know WWF signs (ha! those are gang symbols), or how to use sign language to communicate with a Deaf woman at our church…
Wow, the picture of those children at the top of the page is probably one of the number one reasons why I homeschool. My daughter is polite, well-mannared, and extemely pleasant to be around. I will take that over the group of “socialized” children in the picture.
dont forget snotty and concided without friends!!
Hmm. I’m glad I read the other post before this one.
These are apparently written and posted for the sheer purpose to inflame and to make jokes at the expense of others (ironically considered bad behavior and greatly discouraged in our society)–at least most of them. These aren’t really all that thought out or researched at all–despite the fact that there is the occasional link provided.
For instance, #7–you said that God hates homeschooling and quoted scripture–”Go out into the world….”
Absolutely, we are to go out into the world…but not before training! AND, it also says we are to be set apart from the world, and to be known as a Christian by the company we keep and the actions we do. In otherwords, while we are to go into “Soddam and Gommorah” to rebuke, correct, and encourage, we are NOT to live, endulge, and take in the trappings of the “world.” But, you’d have to read the whole doctrine before you would know that. Otherwise, you are simply taking things out of context. I certainly hope they teach context in public schools these days–you’re not a very good example of this teaching, afterall.
Besides, people like you have made it very clear you don’t want us Christians out there making disciples of all nations. How asinine is it to argue a point on something you don’t even want to happen? Of course, that was sort of my tip off that you were just trying out for the flamboyant and seditious part of celebrity personality.
But, many people have only the aspirations to be Howard Stern. Afterall, not everyone has the internal drive to make this world a better place. Good luck on your endeavors.
Gary says, “I suspect many would argue that you didn’t do it better. Taking someone to a hospital doesn’t teach them medicine.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I didn’t just take her to the hospital. We stayed there. We read books, we studied medicine, we attended workshops and seminars, we watched the doctors perform surgery, to continue the analogy. We read, wrote, analyzed and had hours long history discussions at the dinner table. The summer before we homeschooled, I overheard my daughter say, “all the history I’ve ever learned, I learned from my dad.”
And how would school have done it? Like this. Read a chapter, take notes at home, test on Monday, big big unit test next Thursday (hidden message: don’t bother reading what’s not on the test). And here’s a paper. Do it all at home.
Do you realize how much school work my daughter does at home? Anything major, anything significant, any project, any research, any writing, it’s all done at home! I pulled her out because I asked myself, if she’s doing it all at home anyway, may as well make it official! What was she doing at school? Taking tests, going over homework, getting homework assignments and being graded on what she did at home. Get the picture? We were homeschooling anyway! Jesse doesn’t want our children learning at the same table where they eat Fruit Loops. Okay, then what do you call homework?
We didn’t just go the Capitol. We read, discussed, wrote, studied. School doesn’t even go to the capitol. That was a starting point, not the only point.
10. Please, more respect than the writer is offering.
9. I love your idealism; however, as we both know schools are a bigger deterrent in most way to actual learning.
8. Again, your enthusiasm for this public institution we call ‘school’ is grandiose at best. I suggest that if someone were to poll the parents of the homeschooled students, it would be something along the lines of “…well, quite openly we are not here to help Johnny and Alicia; that is what their teacher is for! Furthermore, we are tired of ‘our’ Megan and Michael being held back because these other kids are having problems.”
In true democrat fashion: “Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.” This argument has been accommodated for, empowered with, and enabled every low-achieving school in this country.
7. Complete and utter nonsense; bringing God into the equation would only support homeschooling because He wants knowledgeable, discerning, wise, and educated folks our carry his message. Try again.
6. Ad Ridiculitum. Furthermore, why ask the question vis-a-vie, “…you think you can teach English as well as me? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me…”
5. Me too! Two Bachelor of Arts degrees; one Bachelor of Science degree; two Master’s degrees, and a doctorate BUT, I teach my child at home.
4. Ad Ridiculitum. And you can be assured that that kind of rhetoric keeps them at home.
3. Maybe parents don’t want their children around a nonproductive ‘multicultural environment.’ I believe that is a right and no court, legislature, or otherwise (special interest group) should ever be able to change it.
2. Ad Ridiculitum and nonsense.
1. “And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.”
“5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)”
Note: You don’t have to remind us of that point. However, if you have urinary problems, you should probably see your doctor rather than blaming the condition on homeschoolers.
I apologize that I have neither the time nor inclination to sift through the entire nest of comments to find out if this subject has been broached. If I am repeating a previous comment, please forgive me.
TeacherRevised, for someone with such stellar educational achievements in the field of English and English Composition, you apparently have a slim grasp on its proper usage. The rampant misuse of ellipsis is atrocious; an ellipsis is not a comma, an em-dash, nor a semicolon.
As a philosopher and logician, I can only attest that your logic in this article is as bad as your punctuation. Each of your arguments is either deeply fallacious or belies unspoken and controversial assumptions.
If you cannot adequately demonstrate your competence in your field of expertise, why would I believe your assertion that you can impart this expertise to my child?
This opinion piece is 100% agenda driven ignorance. This gal expresses these ignorant views with one intention and one intention only. To validate her existence as a public educator. Bravo honey, job well done.
Her so called “case” against homeschooling is not founded with one shred of rationale, fact or reason. It’s entirely subjective and incredibly weak.
An opinion does not a case make, sweets.
Pingback: 52 Churches » Blog Archive » 211: The Case Against Public Schooling
Yes, it’s apparent that publik skools are doing such a fine job these days:
http://www.startribune.com/local/46508322.html
There is a serious lack of understanding and information in the above article.
I attended public school for 5 years, private school for 4 years and was home schooled for three years.
I then attended a private college (95% white) and a public law school (50% african american).
As far as actually learning the material (which I would hope is the actual point of schooling), home schooling was BY FAR the most effective schooling which I attended, followed in order of effectiveness by private college, private school, public school and public law school.
I will admit that I felt slightly underadapted socially when I started college and it took me about a semester to feel like I totally fit in. Oh my – it was so terrible to feel uncomfortable for 4 months. I can’t imagine how I survived. I do seem to recall that some of the public schooled students also had similar adjustment issues. . .
Some of my lifelong friends were developed while in college – one was also home schooled, two others were lifetime public schoolers, and one of them is a public school teacher.
I’ve been practicing law for 3 years covering everything from domestic cases to potentially multi-million dollar medical malpractice cases. I’ve argued in front of a State Supreme Court and two state Courts of Appeal. I think I’ve done alright in spite of my “disadvantage” of being home schooled for three years.
My brother was homeschooled for 9 years and attended public school for 3 (to be more involved in soccer). He is now in army boot camp (reserves) and has been made the leader of his platoon in 5 weeks time. He intends to pursue his desire to receive a degree in biology.
I have numerous other friends who were home schooled for most or all of their K-12 and they are having successful lives and careers – and they all seem to be well adapted socially. One of them has been on a security detail for John McCain and another detail for Joe Lieberman. And BTW, he makes more than $10,000 per month at his job.
Thank you very much, but my daughters will be home schooled. I’ve experienced essentially all of the possible methods of schooling, and homeschooling is the most effective.
Oh yeah – and as to the socialization issue – at our local ELEMENTARY SCHOOL, it was recently discovered that a 12 year old girl was impregnated by a 12 year old boy.
That’s exactly the kind of socialization I want my daughters to have. (Please note my sarcasm . . .)
This is a joke, right! An ACTUAL TEACHING PROFESSIONAL did not actually write this? That is impossible. It sounds like an email a 13 year old would write to her peeps.
Thank you for this, I am going to print this article out and hand it to anyone who ever questions why I will be homeschooling my children. She made the point for me. Oh, one more thing, may I suggest she actually read the Bible before trying to use it as source material. The Bible commands parents to teach their children at home in Det Chapter 6. The “verses” or whatever you sited had nothing to do with your poor excuse for an argument.
Good grief, go back to your college and retake those classes from one writer to another that was TERRIBLE!
Ace
An amusing parody of the anti-homeschooling crowd! Well done.
+1. LOL. Best comment yet, KB.
Jesse,
I will start out by saying that I am not a homeschooling parent, I do not have any child of my own, and I have not done any research regarding the statistics, etc. on the effects of homeschooling a child.
That being said, however, I will say that I am a successful (if I do say so myself) product of ten years as a homeschool student.
I spent the first three years of my educational journey in a public school (pre-k, k and 1st grade). My parents made the decision to homeschool based on the way my older sister was being treated in her public school classroom. In third grade, though my sister was a very smart, quick thinking student she had mild dyslexia, which caused her to have some difficulties with reading comprehension, spelling and other subjects related to English. Her difficulties weren’t showing up in her grades however, because she has an excellent memory and therefore simply memorized everything. My parents brought this issue to the school board and asked them when they would start helping her with her dyslexic issues. The school board told my parents they wouldn’t help my sister until she started failing. FAILING. This was simply unacceptable to my parents, so they decided to bring her home the following year. Shortly after this, my mom was helping in my 1st grade classroom when my teacher informed me that Montana was not a state. It was then that they decided to bring me home as well.
Since then, my sister and I have both graduated from high school and gone on to respected colleges. In fact, my sister just graduated Summa Cum Laude, and was elected as a member of the honors society at her school that only the select top 15% of each class is elected to. Her first semester at college she had a 4.0 GPA, and maintained a 3.8 for her entire college career. She spent 4th-12th grade being educated by my mother at home.
I just completed my sophomore year in college and, academically, I had the least amount of difficulty out of all my friends. The reason being is homeschooling prepares you more for the type of schooling you go through in college. Unlike in a public school setting where you have a teacher breathing down your neck every day demanding that you turn in your homework and making sure you attend class, as a homeschooler I was required to manage and organize my time to make sure I completed my required work on time. My mother didn’t breath down my neck. She would check all my assignments at the end of the week to make sure I had completed it all, and if I didn’t, then that was my problem and I lost part of my weekend working on it.
In regards to your comment about homeschooling parents being arrogant in thinking they can teach their children all subjects just as well as a public school teacher. That was not the case with my family at all. Though my mother received her degree in dental hygiene and my father received his degree in computer engineering, and therefore they both had a solid knowledge base in math and science, my mother clearly understood that she could not teach us everything. In middle school we went to co-ops for some of the classes my mom wasn’t as good at – like English. Starting in high school we began taking classes through an online school called The Potter’s School (TPS; http://www.pottersschool.org) where I took English and science classes for 9th and 10th grade, then in 11th grade took French, English and Music Theory. My mother knew that if we were to receive the best education in some of the upper level classes like that, she couldn’t do it herself, so she entrusted us to other extremely qualified teachers.
It was because of these classes that I have done so well in many of my college courses, particularly in regard to English. I am an English major concentrating in journalism and creative writing. I did not go to school immediately following graduation because I still didn’t know where I wanted to go or what I wanted to do. Instead I took the fall semester and went on tour throughout the United States, Canada and the UK with a singing group. The following spring semester (spring 2008), I took a full load of classes at our local community college (one of the best community college systems in the nation) and received a 4.0 GPA. This past fall I entered into my four year university. My very first semester I took a 400 level English course titled “The Structure of English,” formerly known as “Advanced Grammar.” As the only sophomore, I sailed through this class. Every other student in the class was either a junior or senior and all struggled immensely, but I had hardly any issues with the class at all. Do you want to know why? It was because of the grammar courses my mother had me complete in elementary school and the English classes I took during high school through TPS.
As far as socialization goes, you clearly have not met very many homeschoolers. Yes, I will admit, I do know homeschoolers who fit the geeky homeschooler stereotype. However, in my acquaintance, those are few and far between. I live in the Northern VA area, which is incredibly diverse. My parents worked hard to make sure that my siblings and I had opportunities to socialize with other children, both of our age and of other ages. Yes, my family is Christian, so when we were younger much of our socialization came through our activities at church. However, in we had the opportunities to play sports and do extra curricular activities like theatre and dance.
During the summer I participated on the local pool’s swim team for almost 8 years. I swam right alongside the students I would’ve gone to school with had I been in public school. I did gymnastics and danced for several years, also right alongside the public school students. In high school I began doing community theatre with public school students. In addition to all the extra curricular activities I did, at the end of my sophomore year in high school, just a few months after I turned 16, I began working at the local Starbucks. Keep in mind I would NOT have been able to do this if I had been attending public school because my options for hours would have been very limited. I got more than enough “socialization” from my coworkers.
Yes, I understand that you think homeschooling is selfish and prevents students from receiving a true social experience as they grow up. I will admit, homeschooling is definitely not for everyone. If you have low self-motivation or poor work ethic, it is quite difficult to complete your work while homeschooling. A student’s success in homeschooling also depends largely on the parents and their dedication.
However, if I had the opportunity to go back over and repeat my education the only thing I would change is that I would begin homeschooling from the beginning. My parents gave me the option to go to public school when I entered high school, but I decided against it, and because of that decision I had so many opportunities I wouldn’t have had going to public school. I got to go to Thailand in 2006. That certainly wouldn’t have happened if I had been in public school. Because I didn’t have to keep up or hold back because of the rest of the class and was able to work at my own pace, I had enough credits to graduate high school at the end of my junior year. As a result, I only took one high school class (an elective I wanted to take) my senior year and filled the rest of my schedule with 20 credits (between two semesters) from the local community college. These 20 credits that I received prior to graduation allowed me to take a full semester off and travel and still enter a four year university on track to graduate with my original graduating class.
And for the record, not once have I been told that I’m socially awkward or labeled as homeschooled because of my socialization skills. On the contrary, people’s reactions are usually shock at the fact that I was homeschooled because I am so socially adept.
I plan to homeschool my children from the very beginning and, like my parents, will give them the opportunity to attend a public high school. They will have all the opportunities I had to be “socialized” and I firmly believe that, as someone else stated, social awkwardness and “geeky” traits have nothing to do with the education of the child and everything to do with the individual child’s personality.
I also will say, in respect to your comment about Christ’s command to go into all the world, that I think homeschooling is more conducive to that command. By my parents keeping me at home and educating me on their own, my beliefs were intertwined with the education I received. I received both sides of every argument as well as the evidence necessary to refute arguments and worldviews contrary to mine. One example I will give is evolution. In a public school setting you get one view – evolution is the only possible theory for the creation of the world and that’s just the way it is, accept it. That is not what I was taught. In my high school biology course, I was given both sides of the story. I was given the evidence for evolution and the evidence for creation. I was then also given the scientific facts that public school teachers DON’T give their students about how creation is a more reliable theory than evolution. By teaching me at home, my parents not only gave me a more balanced education but they also taught me how to defend my perspective and my worldview and really live my faith.
Going into college I felt very prepared and I knew that if I ran into a situation where someone asked me why I believed what I believe, I would be able to answer them honestly, without questioning myself inside. I wouldn’t have been able to do that if I had gone to public school.
Some how your attachment to the idea that children belong to the “State” fails to sway me. Having been publicly schooled and above average IQ (and suffered for it by being bored), I have no interest in sacrificing my children to the State and diminishing their chances to achieve to the limits of their ability. If my father, a public school teacher a few decades ago, were alive today I am sure he would agree with me that children deserve the chance to reach for the sky instead of being shackled to the ground.
I am hoping this article was written just to generate traffic to this site. Well done, Ms. Scacci! It lacked a certain professional tone to be considered a real “argument.” And I appreciate all of the responses to your piece. I have only one question: WHAT IS WRONG WITH GEEKY? I would love for my children to be what you consider geeky. The most influential people in the world could be classified as such. I almost listed them. However, that would be perpetuating the stereotype you seem pretty comfortable attacking. Is inclusiveness and diversity alive in your classroom unless you are a geek? Hug your geeky student today! Or challenge your geeky student sitting in your front row. Embrace and nurture the geekiness! They are tired of being held back and bored!
The Perry Morgan Fellowship in Creative Writing is awarded to first year full-time graduate students enrolled in the creative writing program at ODU. I must say, this poorly constructed blog, highlighting the most common hot button homeschool issues, fits my description of creative writing. Can I assume that you’ve gotten the response you were looking for? If you really want to research homeschooling, I suggest you stop goading people and start reading the published works of three time New York City Teacher of the Year, and 1991 New York State Teacher of the Year, John Taylor Gatto.
Jesse Scaccia has taught high school-aged students in Brooklyn, San Diego, and Cape Town, South Africa, where he currenty teaches at a home for young men. His journalism has been published by The New York Times, The San Diego Union Tribune, The International Herald Tribune, and The Virginian-Pilot. He co-executive produced a documentary series for BET about post-Katrina life for the band and football team at an HBCU in Louisiana. He holds dual degrees in English and education from the University of Connecticut, a master’s in education from Connecticut, and a master’s in journalism from New York University. He is currently the Perry Morgan Fellow in the MFA program at Old University Dominion in Norfolk, Virginia. You can reach him at jessescaccia@gmail.com.
So he is *capable* of better journalism and English. Sounding like a poorly educated preteen probably worked better for attention getting, I guess.
Jesse,
My four siblings and I were all homeschooled. We all turned out horribly. I see your logic in public schooling. We all should have gone to public school exclusively.
Son 1 (me): Eagle Scout, nine year veteran of the USMC. I have one tour in Iraq/Kuwait as a platoon sergeant. I led a maintenance shift that ensured communications for the tsunami relief effort in SE Asia in 2005. I am an applications specialist for a major industrial instrumentation company. I also returned to college this past semester, making a 4.0 GPA.
Son 2: Eagle Scout. B.S. in Electronic Technology, J.D. from the University of Houston. Runs several businesses.
Son 3: Eagle Scout. High end restaurant manager. Entrepreneur.
Son 4: Eagle Scout. B.S. in Math from USC. M.S. in Math from Cal State Fullerton. Never made less than an A in anything. He works for Boeing as an actual rocket scientist.
Daughter: Not an Eagle Scout. Senior at Houston Baptist University. 4.0 GPA in History and Political Science.
Dad: B.A. in English, Columbia University, M.A. in Journalism also from Columbia.
Mom: Pasadena High School
Jesse, you are right. We all should have gone to public school. We could have made something of ourselves. Interestingly enough, whenever I tell someone who was public schooled about my typical high school day, that person always wishes he could have been homeschooled too. I have never met anyone who wishes he could have been public schooled instead of homeschooled.
In your original blog post, the irony is deafening. You pick the sentence about your English qualifications to make an egregious grammatical error. Bravo!!
Jay – Thank you for your service, brother.
Publius,
Jump on Oath Keepers. Fulfill your oath to the Constitution.
http://www.oathkeepers.net
#6 – I taught public school for 10 years. I have 3 degrees, one of which is a Master’s in a REAL graduate program, not from a “make a cute powerpoint not a thesis” education program. I AM more qualified to teach my children and they will never attend public school.
Intolerant yes, but it seems to be coming from your side just as much as those intolerable homeschoolers……
What a racist, psuedo-elitist rant. An English teacher who writes like a 7th grader is not my idea of a role model. Geeky? Is that a common term among educators or a slang term used by children? YOu have witnessed young adults being teased in college dorms or did you see that on an episode of “The Hills”. If your IQ is higher than my daughters’ IQ of 168, then you may teach her. Otherwise, her education should be managed by someone on par with her intelligence. That would be me, a former college professor with multiple degrees. The school psychologist said, “I see nothing that our public school can offer her.” I think she is a better judge of human behavior than an English teacher who uses phrases such as “pisses me off” rather than the correct phrase,”Makes me very angry”. By the way, our multicultural, multiracial family does just fine socializing with other families. At least they speak proper English and it is their second language.
You said: “My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?”
My answer is YES! At least I know that the last word in the quote above should be “I”, not “me”.
Thank you for being the first one to take that on! I noticed it as well, but had other arguments to make.
YAY!! WTG.
Pingback: A teacher’s case against homeschooling (Thanks for sending this one Linda) « Hodge Podge Homeschooling
Too funny! Thanks for that post. It reminded me of myself (although I am 52). When I entered college at traditionally black Morgan State Universtity under scholastic scholarships and an “other race grant”, I was hardly socially inept because I was home schooled!
Not only was my ineptitude short lived, I graduated Summa Cum Laude and gave a speech on self-motivation and success at my graduation.
You write well…much better than 90% of the college sophmores whose essays I have read. Keep it up and congratulations. Your unborn children should consider themselves lucky.
What strikes me is the embarrassing ignorance of the teacher who wrote this. Is this truly representative of the products of today’s education system?
If I were sitting on the school board that employes Scaccia, I’d argue for a least a review of the teacher’s grading history, and probably dismissal. Scaccia is dangerously wedded to insulting and intolerant personal opinions that even scant research would refute in minutes.
The number one –presumably the most important reason cited– ‘reason’ why homeschooling is, in the author’s opinion, ‘wrong’ is because some homeschooled children may be perceived by the author as ‘geeky’? How does the author treat the ‘geeks’ in the classroom? Thinly-veiled or overt disdain? If it were homeschooling alone that caused or created geekiness, surely the average schooled person would have no familiarity with the term.
If I were a parent of a child in her classroom, I’d ask to have that child removed. If that were not possible, I’d change schools.
Regarding critical thought alone, #5 is not an argument. Rather, it’s a statement of the author’s reaction to his/her own opinion. This individual is teaching others to compose critical essays? This author claims authority to mark or correct other people’s essays? Consider the damage this intolerant, reactionary mind can do to the student whose opinion differs from what is ‘normal’ or ‘natural’ to this ignorant teacher’s mind!
Did this self-proclaimed English major actually write ‘not to hate’?
Wow, what an invective against homeschooling – the sad thing is, some people will point to this in support of their arguments and much of it is ridiculous. Case in point:
Homeschoolers are selfish? I should put my kid in school merely to help other less-privileged kids? This has to be the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard. Are you telling people who place their kids in privileged private schools to forgo that and head to public school too? Should I also move to a dangerous neighborhood so the neighborhood kids can benefit from my presence? I can make a difference in many ways to those less fortunate than me – but why should my child’s education be part of that sacrifice?
I too have a degree in English literature, from an extremely good university (yes, that’s my snooty privileged behavior coming out). And from what I can see, my passion for that, and other subjects, makes me more qualified to teach than some teachers I’ve met. I might – and I say MIGHT – agree with you that the higher levels of teaching may require people who understand certain topics more completely. But my daughter, who is aged 5, is not up to calculus yet. Maybe next year (yes that is sarcasm, not the hubris you presume me to have). For now, though, the simple math, science and language lessons that she is learning, I am quite well-equipped to handle. As I assume you do, I prepare for lessons. I do research. I use other resources including books and the internet. We take field trips to museums, parks, or wherever we want to go that will support our learning. And because I am not telling 30 kids to stay in line or stop throwing food or sit down and be quiet, we spend a lot of time on LEARNING, and we do it when and where we want. And OFTEN.
To your point that homeschooling breeds racism, your own ignorance is showing and feeding into a stereotype. Not all homeschoolers are rednecks living in cabins with a Bible in one hand and a gun in the other. My daughter’s background is 1/2 Black (Barbados), 1/4 Latina (Panama), and 1/4 Causasian (Germany). She is currently taking German and learning about the country and we will tackle the rest of her heritage and then those of her friends too. Her best friend is a biracial girl whose parents are a white man from Tennessee and an Asian woman from Singapore – they have also become best friends of ours. The other girls in her little “posse” are also biracial with backgrounds in India and Argentina. I should point out that none of these kids are homeschooled – we don’t insulate our daughter from children in public or private school, which to us would be as stupid as forbidding to see kids from another school if she were in school herself. It seems that you could do with a little dose of the open-mindedness you claim homeschoolers are lacking – while the stereotype is out there, you make no consideration of those of us that are not like that.
You say that homeschooling undoubtedly leaves a child unprepared socially. For what? And where is your proof? Can you cite any sources? Have you even looked to see if there are sources that refute that? I know this is your blog and you can rant about whatever you want but it seems that a statement like that needs some fleshing out. Or did you not learn that at college? Because I did.
As for your claim that a focused environment (school) is required for learning, again, proof? What exactly is it about school that makes it the ONLY place that learning can happen? I went to school myself – and loved it – but I credit my zest for learning with the environment of my HOUSE. The public elementary school I went to was not a great one, but at home I heard Shakespeare and classical music played on our record player, read Greek and Norse mythology, wrote stories for my mother, planted flowers. This helped to alleviate the stress of rude teachers (including one who told me to drink my spit when I asked for a glass of water), fights in the classroom, and promiscuous peers – in elementary school. So your fantasyland classroom is not as perfect as you claim in all places, and even in the best of circumstances it is not the ONLY place that learning can or should happen. Once again, your hubris trumps mine.
Finally, since I could go on and on, I will only say that to your point about taking risks with my child’s education, it is precisely because I REFUSE to take that risk that I am homeschooling her. Sure, I could suck it up and send her to the local school – to which I still pay an obscene amount of taxes despite not using the resources AT ALL. But I do not want her love of learning and her spirit to be stamped out. I do not want her to experience cliques and bullies at the early age of 5. I have done MY research and know this to be the case in the options I have. So yes, I am homeschooling. I am not lording it over anyone, I am not saying it is the only option, I am not saying we’ll do it forever, I am saying it is the BEST option for MY family right now. Why you should care anymore about where I school my child than you do about where I buy my groceries is beyond me. Why don’t teachers get as up in arms about the crappy schools out there as they do about homeschoolers? Why do many teachers, en masse, refuse to even entertain the thought of a merit system that would reward good teachers, instead preferring to coast through to a fat pension with a system that makes it hard to get rid of bad or indifferent teachers?
Maybe you’re a good or even great teacher. If so, keep doing your great job and kudos to you because I truly applaud wonderful teachers and wish there were more of them out there. But taking homeschooling as a personal affront is – well, silly. You can’t teach every kid in the U.S. Me teaching my kids at home is not about you. So rein in your own ego and re-examine some of the attitudes you attribute to homeschoolers, because I see a lot more of the intolerance coming out in this post than I’ve ever allowed in my house.
I should clarify too that where I said I loved my own public school, it was the high school I went to that I loved, not the elementary school whose environment I described and that I wouldn’t want my kids to experience either. I should point out, though, that my high school, although public, was a school for gifted children and one had to take a test to get in. Are you against that too? Just wondering…
Wrong.
You are just plain wrong.
You’ve taken a handful of isolated incidents and used them as the median in your argument.
This is just plain BS opinion without a shred of fact.
Great article. You bring us some valid points that most people don’t consider.
Our decision was simple, we never agonized or worried about the “cons” list; cookie-cutter education and learning how to behave like everyone else was never an option as far as we are concerned.
Go to a school function, watch the kids at a group function like a birthday party at the park or pizza place, see the interaction between kids and their parents at the supermarket. Most of these observations would scare people away from having children all-together. Well, these are today’s “socialized” kids; products of public schooling and parents who leave behavior modeling to teachers and school systems.
Children at school are encouraged to be like everyone else and to fit in, so I am supposed to trust that 20 other sets of parents have taught their kids the same values that I have taught mine. Well, they haven’t, and now my child is in the minority and has to change for the worse in order to fit in. NO, NO, NO. Please “socialize” someone else; this child is mine, not The States. I spend 5 years taking care of, teaching, loving, and enjoying this child, and now I have 3 hours to undo the 8 hours of negatives that took place during the school day. WOW, I just have to say again NO.
Okay, enough of the banal, overly used, trite observations and criticisms of schools and other parents – the REAL reason we homeschool – my daughter is the coolest little person on the planet and I want to spend all day every day with her. I’m selfish!
This is hilarious. The total lack of reason and logic, the unsubstantiated accuations, the poor grammar, the hypocritical insults and personal attacks…this is what today’s public schools offer?
Hey Jesse,
“Real life” doesn’t mean imitating adolescents so you can fit in your peer group. Education is about building up, not reducing to the lowest common denominator. If you can’t handle “real life” and cloister yourself in a classroom full of children, don’t condemn others because they are socially adept.
Question about #3 and #8:
I have heard the suggestion before that homeschooling families are hurting low income schools and kids by not going to public school. I’m wondering why the choice of education alone receives this criticism.
My neighborhood grocery store is like many in lower income urban areas with many immigrants. It is a chain store and profits don’t stay in the neighborhood. The prices are quite high. The produce selection is limited and it often looks like it would be better suited for the compost heap than the grocery shelf.
I am a middle class mom and I have a car. I could shop at my neighborhood store and spend more and feed my family less high quality food. Instead I guess I’m “selfish” and we shop the farmer’s market, garden and drive to a grocery store in a higher income area that has lower prices and better food. I can’t recall ever once being criticized for this choice as it seems fairly obvious parents should try to feed their kids nutritious food. How is this decision different from a parent hoping to provide their child with a quality education?
Would your suggestion Jesse be that I feed my family crappy rotten expensive food to prove the point that I support folks who have less choice? Really plenty of low income kids have medical conditions exacerbated by lack of access to nutritious food – why shouldn’t mine too?
Why are you focusing your attention exclusively on education rather than people’s choice of housing, shopping, community involvement, etc.?
Last thought: Once at the animal shelter I saw a sign that said “your pet is not your contribution.” It seems the height of arrogance to suggest your child is so incredibly great that merely sending them to a school makes it a better place for the less fortunate. If we accomplish one thing as homeschoolers I hope it will be to have taught that contributing to the world is about a lot more than showing up and using $7,000 worth of government services each year.
I was interested in reading your blog when I read the title and sadly disappointed when I read the content which was weak and immature.
I am the mother of 9 children. The oldest was homeschooled entirely. The others were all homeschooled till I burned out miserably.
I agree that homeschooling can often be a bad thing but not for crazy reasons like the kids will turn out geeky! For crying out loud, what are you, and teacher saying about each child’s uniqueness??I went to public school and there were plenty of geeks there. The reason against homeschooling isn’t even that the kids have no socializing opportunities – my kids were in all kind of ‘after school activities’ and many homeschoolers participate in homeschool groups that give ample opportunity for socialization.
For me, homeschool didn’t pan out in the end because I’m not a teacher. There were issues I couldn’t address. There were time constraints. All of those things brought me to a place where I knew it was best to get the kids in school. MOst of them are top scholars and are in advanced classes. Is that because they got their beginning around the same table they meatloaf from? I don’t know. Maybe. My biggest ‘concern’ about homeschooling is that it is often carried out by religious fanaticals who think evangelical christianity is the ONLY WAY. I know. I was one. Was a Pastor’s wife. Have the T-shirt AND the divorce papers.
It’s an insane, paranoid world they dwell in.
Ultimately though, parents have the right to raise their kids in accordance with what they deem to be right or wrong, so I leave it there and send them my respect. I am worried however, about my child being in a classroom with a teacher who refers to certain children as ‘geeky’ and who has no tolerance level what-so-ever. Perhaps a geeky career like computer programming or blogging would be a better pursuit for you?
And there you have it. Solarpete did exactly what she deemed BEST for HER family. I agree, homeschooling is not a panacea for the world’s problems.
I happen to LOVE it. I LOVE teaching. I LOVE my kid’s company ( unless it’s after 9 pm.LOL) I LOVE researching and learning myself. I’m an absolute, hopeless bibliophile and this gives me an excuse to buy more books : )
I love the home life we have. I even secretly smile when I confiscate my son’s mason jar of fleas or roll my eyes as he lays on the floor loudly lamenting his untimely death at the hands of long division like the last act of La Boheme. We have hard days but I wouldn’t trade it for anything. Homeschooling certainly isn’t for everyone, but it certainly needn’t be vilified.
The lack of hard evidence and the lack of well-formed opinions (because all of your arguments were the obvious ones that even homeschooled kids could come up with) made this pretty boring.
I’m not disagreeing with you; I’m generally against homeschooling. I’m just saying: if you’re going to claim your English training and studies, you might want to consider the quality of your information before picking on people for their inadequate educations.
Pingback: Mariposa Academy Homeschool » Blog Archive » Rebuttal to “The Case Against Homeschooling”
Rebuttal on my blog: http://www.mariposahomeschool.org/blogs/?p=170
When will you be posting your list of why it’s bad to homeschool? You have done nothing but prove why more people should take their children out of public school. You honestly think anyone cares that a stranger homeschooling upsets you? That’s vanity at it’s finest. I pray you don’t hold yourself in such high regard that you truly feel parent’s should run their ideas by you first.
God, you really went there? Well, while your class is stifled by rules and regulations for 8 hours each day, my children have half that time to “go ye into all the world”. Your children are limited, mine have no limits when it comes to God’s work.
Socialization… oh honey, proof again of your vanity. If you are doing your job, your class doesn’t have time to socialize. They are quiet, listening, reading, and test taking, then jaunting to another class, then going home where they… socialize. Yes, honey, they socialize after school, unless you have no control of your class.
Your list is comedy at it’s finest. Thank you for the laugh. I appreciate it beyond words. But it also makes me have to work hard to remember that there are good teachers out there that aren’t like you and want the absolute best for every child in this nation. Praise God for them. I hope they will rub off on you.
Dear Jesse: you blew it. There are many ways to be critical of homeschooling, almost as many as public schools. As a homeschooling parent and someone pursuing a Master in Teaching, I walk in both worlds. Honestly, the public schools have so much room to improve and you take time to throw rocks and call names at homeschoolers?
I believe homeschooling is a very viable option to meet the needs of some kids, just like public schools meet the needs of some kids, but not all. Both have strengths and weaknesses.
Do you have kids? Didn’t think so.
Your article sounds like a rant, not an informed article. I invite you to read just one book about homeschooling and then reflect on your mess. Start with Family Matters: Why Homeschooling Makes Sense by David Guterson. If I wasn’t so busy with my Master’s I’d take up your invite to write. Until then, I would be glad to discuss this in person with you…you have my email.
Oh my—and WHO’S the bigot? Geeks, Social Phobic mothers? I thought public school teachers were the epitome of “tolerance”? You, my friend, are the #1 reason we homeschool—-you are elitist, intolerant of any Free Thinkers or opposing lifestyles or opinions. And JEALOUS and INTIMIDATED to boot! How could you be so ‘educated’ and yet so petty and immature at the same time? The last time I checked, we lived in a Free Country where WE get to choose things like lifestyle, schooling, etc—-but I guess in your Marxist tainted Eduspeak world—the sheeple should be same-age grouped automatons taking orders from the “experts”, huh? Man—get a real job—homeschool YOUR kids!
kb… Education always makes one think they have all the answers and reality with age will demonstrate we don’t have all the right questions. I understand where you are coming from.
1. I have met, worked with, and had children in classes taught by well intentioned, smart, hard charging teachers with good credentials (like yours), but they could not teach. (a teaching certificate does not mean the teacher is any good at teaching).
2. While working at a private college, from 2002-2005, I was given the opportunity to meet and speak with many members of the freshmen class. I found, with few exceptions, the home schooled kids did far better in high school course work than their public school classmates and had higher SAT scores.
3. I taught in a community college for two years, but gave it up because of the lack of fundamental skills the students were were not taught in public schools.
4. Home schooled kids are not geeky, they are just more mature and ready to accept the challenges of higher education and life. Most public schooled kids are still trying to beat various video games, are foul mouthed, misinformed about sex, have little respect for others (adults and classmates) and have not been taught to take responsibility for their actions. Such is the that public schooled kids bring to college and life.
5. I applaud all good teachers.
Jessie,
I appreciate your willingness to put your thoughts out there, and I will always support everyones right to express what they believe, but in this case you are very wrong.
As a public school teacher who has worked for 20 years in the United States 2nd largest school district, Los Angeles Unified, I have decided to homeschool my son because the schools are not meeting the basic standards for success. That is a sad fact. The local elementary schools are under performing, the middle school is run like a penitentiary, and the high school has a graduation rate that makes me want to cry. I want my son to succeed in this world and if I can’t trust the system my tax dollars pay for, then I need to be pro-active. I have seen what some teachers consider teaching as a resource teacher and it is criminal.
“…you think you can teach English as well as me?”
Er, shouldn’t that be:
“…you think you can teach English as well as I?”
I wish homeschooling could be discussed without the talk being dominated by socialization concerns. I believe these are a lot less relevant than the author makes them out to be. My children are in high school and have been in public schools since kindergarten. I’ve noticed that their social groups include kids who have moved in and out of the public school system and are now in religious schools, secular private schools or homeschooled. I certainly can’t tell which are the homeschooled kids by any obvious signs of poor socialization.
First, thank you homeschool advocates for commenting.
I am 19 and was homeschooled my whole life. I do not boast or pretend to be a smarty pants. In fact I struggled learning math and writing, and it has taken a little longer for me to understand subjects well. But you know who spent hours everyday, making up new ways to help me learn how words sounded and division was not that hard after all? My mom.
From meeting numerous public and private schooled kids throughout my life, I am certain I’d have failed in a school system if no one had spent that much time helping me learn as much as my mom. I am also the oldest girl of ten children. I have two older brothers, one is black and he has a disability. I have four younger brothers, and one of them also is black and has a disability. I have three sisters, two have disabilities. These four siblings are adopted. My youngest biological brother has a disability as well. I must say, even if I didn’t have two brothers who have dark brown (I myself am “white”) skin, we love learning about different cultures. And have had MANY friends throughout our lives, from every background, culture and ethnicity. We’ve studied history from many different resources; learning the pieces how different cultures have affected the story of the world. How waves of different peoples have brought certain changes, and how wars and reformations have come about. We know that Christopher Columbus wasn’t a white European; how effective the words of Martin Luther King Jr. were on civil rights…
We’ve taken public speaking courses, debate classes, general science/biology/anatomy/ and chemistry plus labs; humanities, history, government/politics, philosophy (some personal favorites), basic and creative writing; choir, volleyball and basketball (I’m not very athletic but vball is awesome and I didn’t care for other sports except kickball) algebra, trig, calc, and physics co-ops, private music lessons and music camps (my brothers and I were surrounded by public/private school kids but there were other homeschoolers as well. Made friends there that I still see today)…need I go on? And all taught by parents who have college degrees in these areas, or have learned these skills as side jobs to their normal careers. Oh I forgot to say how many opportunities we’ve had for serving our communities and have part in theatrical groups.
One of my best friends in highschool (age 14+) and still is now, is a black girl. She has adopted siblings who are black and Hispanic. I, along with three of my brothers have taken two years of Spanish from a missionary to Mexico and her family, and from an Hispanic mother and daughter who knew little English themselves.
I belief there are probably some habits I have that are “homeschooled”. Perhaps the way I see things, talk or act sometimes? But oh, I think that is just being a little more culturally different-there is nothing wrong with that since America is so fond of embracing all kinds of people. Right?
Anyway, I can definitely be a bit of a nerd/geek, but if you saw me, I don’t look like one. I love all styles of clothes and am an artist at heart. I am an introvert but usually not too afraid to speak out on injustice or something I deeply believe in is being attacked. I can be a bit of a girly girl, but no I don’t have my ears pierced because it looks weird to me and things dangling off my ears drive me nuts–and pink is not my color. I like modesty but I wear two piece swimsuits just fine. I don’t show myself off because I dont’ want to bring anyone on. I can have fun with my brothers and can relate to all the guy friends I have really well. I’ve been taking community college classes for a couple of semesters now, to get a head start on my college plans. And plan to transfer to our state university for my Junior and Senior years to finish my BSW (bachelors of Social Work). Because I love people of all the colors of the rainbow.
I’ll finish with some articles about a friend of mine. Enjoy:
http://asunews.asu.edu/20090515_Profile_McBurnett
http://www.azcentral.com/news/articles/2009/05/12/20090512cr-younggrad0513.html
http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/dpp/news/education/chandler_nursing_grad_05_12_2009
http://www.azcentral.com/arizonarepublic/local/articles/2009/05/14/20090514youngnurse0514.html
Hmm… such narrow-minded ignorance from a teacher in our public education system seems to make a strong case for homeschooling. I would be concerned if my child was being taught such shallow and restrictive thinking in any environment.
Jesse, are you really this narrow-minded or were you just provoking a response?
“… they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.”
“greatly”?
Please provide references to peer reviewed studies that demonstrate the statement. (There aren’t any studies … as this is manufactured propaganda.)
Oh my.
I am suddenly fearful for the education of my children, who attend public school. I realize I’ve never had to read what any of them consider a logical argument. I cringe enough at the error-ridden notes they send.
I am typing with one hand while holding a toddler so I will keep this short. At my high school we had:
1. One teacher that ate chicken while “teaching” Shakespeare. Spitting all over the front row. She used slang words like: izntz, antzs, yous and so on.
2. Two teachers, that we knew of, that were sleeping with students. They also had babies by students.
3. A few years after I graduated 4 of my previous male teachers were arrested and found guilty of soliciting young boys.
4. A teacher from a school across town was caught at our mall taking pictures of little boys peeing in the bathroom.
6. A local elementary school teacher and her husband were convicted of dealing drugs.
5. We had gangs that were so bad at times you werent allowed to be in the halls alone.
I could go on and on. There is nothing taught in the schools that I cant teach. Well…..I dont fight with people, I dont molest children, deal drugs and well you get the picture.
There are very good teachers in this world but it does not balance out the horrible ones or the children that are so angry they make it their goal to abuse other children. Socialization is also the mixing of different age groups. Most schools I am familiar with work hard to keep the little ones away from the older ones for their own safety.
I was very surprised at your silly and ignorant arguments against home schooling. I applaud good teachers and wish they would remove the chip and realize that we arent out to get them. I cant imagine blogging against public schools but if I did my arguments would be real concerns and truths not immature rantings. Grow up!! It will be good for your students if you are more of an adult and less on their level. This whole thing was very high school.
No degree makes you a better parent or better able to see what is best for someone elses child.
I have news for you pal. We homeschooling families don’t give a rat’s rear-end what you think. Just keep your intelligence-sucking public school vampires away from my kid. It’s called freedom baby. Take a whiff.
Kisses,
Ron Robinson
Your ‘arguments’ have already been demolished.
I will simply say it is sad that people like you, who obviously cannot think effectively, are actually responsible for our children’s education.
You make a very effective argument for homeschooling.
I don’t have time to read the 400+ comments so I can’t vouch for others… but I’ll speak for myself.
First, your article saddens me. It is so judgemental and makes me think that you’ve not had very much experience homeschooling families. That’s unfortunate. I’ve been fortunate to have some great expieriences with other homeschool families.
I’ve seen the amazing gift homeschooling has been for adult friends who were homeschooled and for children of friends currently being homeschooled. It is not the right option for every family, but it is a gift for those of us who pursue it. No one will love our kids more than we do… it is a gift to have the choice to educate them in the way that we see fit. We certainly have their best in mind.
In my choice to homeschool, I do not discount the need for loving and wise (and smart!) teachers in all areas of public and private schools. I myself was schooled in both the public and private setting. Not every teacher was as wonderful as the next – but for every teacher that genuinely cared about the students and the subjects they taught, I am truly grateful. If we should ever need to use either school system for my son, I hope that we fortunate enough to have teachers that were as loving and balanced as some of the teachers I had.
I do hope that with time and experience you soften up to the families that choose homeschooling. As an advocate for diversity, I would guess that it would be a goal of yours – to welcome differing views and to embrace homeschooling adults and homeschooled children, regardless of your own personal choice on the matter of schooling your own children.
PS – I apologize for the typos in my previous comment… I would imagine someone who teaches English might find that quite annoying.
I am having a very hard time believing this article was written by an college educated school teacher.
This sounds like a poorly socialized student who got picked on too much and have turned into a bully themselves.
Goodness, what one will do for a little attention.
LOL!
I used to TA in chemistry. We used to joke that all the students failing the basic portion of the 1 semester review class were going to be teachers.
Viola!
Yo, English guru, you need a subjective pronoun in “as well as me.” Finish the thought: it’s “as well as I can teach,” not “me can teach.” But, you seem to have a lot of qualifications.
Being home schooled myself it was hard for me to believe that you were being serious. I know MANY home schoolers. And MANY public schoolers(I actually went to public school one year.) It’s sad that you think kids need to be in a class room 5 days a week to know other cutlers. Do you honestly believe that? About being “geeky,” when I was public schooled the kids were scared to death to present things in class. The home schooled classes I was in, kids were excited about presenting things. I’m not saying this goes for everyone, because everyones different, but it was definitely obvious that home schoolers had more confidence(not being bullied, gossiped about all the time, or made fun of everyday.) When I was in public school their was nothing more social at all. We home schoolers simply do not have to be stuck in a class room 8 hours a day to make friends. I can’t believe you would say that home schoolers are richer as an excuse.. I wouldn’t even say that to be true. And from this article I would say my mother can teach better than you. Also, a lot of work is not done where we eat. We go outside, On field trips, and meet up with other kids in our classes(if we take classes.) I don’t know why you think a school is a good learning place, when all these other kids are their distracting you. #5 means absolutely nothing to me or other home schooled families. I have never felt like an outsider because of being home schooled. I don’t do things to impress people at college if I go. If they said someone was a geek then they would have things to work on themselves. Now to say home schoolers don’t witness to people is crazy! They don’t even want you to talk about God in public schools.. I can witness everyday to anyone regardless. And to your #1 I have met many home schoolers as stated, and NO they are not “pretty geeky.”
Thank you so much for this, Jesse!
The depth, breadth, and soundness of your reasoning makes my point for me! It is teachers like you who continually reinforce my decision to home school my child!
So here are my counter arguements… 10 Reasons to Homeschool
10. Kids in public schools are insulted on a daily basis with “you are an idiot, you are a dork, you are an…. Well, I can name hundreds of insults my kids have been given while in public school (from teachers as well as peers).
“You were totally home schooled” would be a compliment for my kids going on to college !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I am sure that any person wanting to insult someone else… will do it no matter what. Sad arguement saying that homeschooled people are going to get picked on by a public school educated person is a good reason to not homeschool- sounds like you just proved it is best to homeschool. I would expect that by the time homeschooled kids are adults in college that they would know their own self worth and won’t give a darn about any other adult bent on giving insults just because the insulter doesn’t know his/her own self worth and needs to insult other to make the insulter feel better. Oh and there are plenty of non-homeschooled students who are geeky and they still get insulted, as well as the average “normal” student. All the “geeks” I know (and I know many) are proud of their intelligence and for making good use of that intelligence. No matter what… there will be hundreds of other “reasons” for people to make others feel like an outsider. It is just the cuelty of their nature in some people.
9. Call me old-fashioned… homeschool was the way of educating children in the old days right there at the kitchen table and these kids grew up to be pretty darn great people. Oh, and we don’t even watch American Idol….
8. Public Schools are selfish… they want MY children to bring up the schools test scores. Unless someone just died and left me an nice inheritance, I sure as heck am not wealthy!!!!!! I graduated college on my own (took me 10 hard years of work)…. no one did it for me, my parents sure didn’t pay my tuition. My parents encouraged me to do my best and they sure weren’t highly educated and wealthy either. And it is selfish of non-homeschoolers to demand my kids to be brought down to lower education standards in order to rise the non-achievers up.
7. I am betting God loves homeschooling. God loves kids be taught strong morals and values. Most homeschooled parents actually care about teaching honesty and compassion and love to their children 24/7. Unlike what is taught in public school setting. Children need to be taught their faith and learn to live it before they can go and make disciples of all nations. Even Jesus didn’t do most of his ministries until he was an adult (my understanding from my very limited knowledge of the Bible).
Interesting fact… I homeschool my kids for their Catholic RE studies through our Roman Catholic Church program until my kids start 8th grade. Then they get ready for confirmation classes. And where did God say that we are only allowed to “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations” in the public school system only? Doesn’t this also argue against private religious based schools? Interesting that God isn’t allowed in public schools so how are kids supposed to be “witnesses” in public schools?
6. Public school teachers are arrogant. Guess with the education and training, teachers know it all in educating children. Teachers learn how to deal with the bull crap in schools… the politics, the bullies, the fights, the drug deals, the killings, etc. all the while giving a wonderful education to ALL the students in your classroom. So why aren’t ALL public school students above academic grade level?
Homeschoolers don’t need to be taught how to discipline own children, don’t need to be taught how to deal with special needs kids, gifted kids, the bratty kids, the kids who just hate school, etc. We just have to know our own children and their own ways of learning… remember a parent is their child’s first teacher anyway. And from meeting many teachers over the years…. not many teachers know everything about subject being taught. My 14yr old son knows more science and math than his middle school teachers!!!!! And every year teachers tell me that they can’t really teach my son anything new !!!!! So my son is better off being dumbed down in the public school system?
5. As a parent, a teacher kind of pisses me off (that’s good enough for #5.)
4. Public education breeds intolerance and racism. Last I heard… there is more violence in schools than in homeschooled homes. Intolerance and racism is bred at home in the homes that encourage it, and then spreads unchecked in the school system. Homeschooled children are just being “vaccinated” with the morals and values they learn at home.
3. Kids in school are not allowed to socialize. They are often told to stop talking, recess is taken away in many schools, kids are assigned where to sit in lunch room (often not with friends because they get too talkative). Oh, I guess the 3 minutes in passing periods is socialization. Many kids are bullied, alienated on a daily basis. And they are supposed to get an education in such a volatile social environment?
Oh and the group projects… yep, it ends up being MY kid who does ALL the work to avoid getting a low grade on project because the other members of group didn’t want to do the work and the wonderful, caring, and understanding teacher just says “work it out with your group members” when asked to do the work on own or to be assigned to a different group.
Guess my kids don’t socialize enough when going to Kung Fu daily, go to bowling league every week, go to scout meeting and events at least once a week, go to homeschool co-op twice a week, go to church group, homeschool band practice every week. Um, compared to when my kids attended public school… they are socialized more and in a more variety of cultural experiences than they did in school. They also get to socialize with a wide range of ages. Homeschooling definitely prepares children for the society and world they will live in.
2. Non-homeschooling teachers are arrogant, Part 2. Public schools think they know what is best for every child and limits them to what they think the child can achieve. “Oh, that child can’t possibly learn to read and will do nothing but scrub toilets for a career, so don’t bother trying to teach him and just send him on to the next grade level”. So many kids are just past along without any attempts to educate them. Homeschoolers are willing to take risks and strive to use the talent and ability that God gave them.
1. And finally… have you met someone not homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty self rightous, know-it-alls and non-geeky***.
Jesse, I am so glad to see that you are offering some homeschool parents (the same ones you insulted) an opportunity to write for you. Problem is, your standards are too low for writers.
Ace
Whoo. You reaped the whirlwind, didn’t you?
My reply is somewhat long, so I posted it here:
http://grassrootshomeschool.blogspot.com/2009/06/time-for-rantypants.html
Fact is fact: homeschooling is increasing. I don’t think it is hard for a professional like you to figure out why it is happening. It’s not in any of your text books or in your teacher’s handbook? Forgot to tell you it’s just common sense. I’m not a native of America, not rich, but I am very proud is the one of the increasing number.
Pingback: Some Pet Peeves « Red Sea School
Ms Scaccia,
If yours is the best case that can be made against home-schooling, my case for it is rock-solid.
If a double-masters in English has enabled you to write such penetrating, thoughtful, and well-crafted prose, I’ll save you the embarrassment of listing my arguments for home-schooling, because there is every chance you wouldn’t understand them.
I am grateful that you are not teaching my son English, logic, or rhetoric.
I’ll close by quoting the apocryphal Bill Gates high-school address that most of us have probably received at least once in our e-mail boxes:
Be nice to nerds, chances are you’ll end up working for one.
You made several errors in your writing, so apparently all of those degrees and special qualifications you have don’t make you a perfect teacher.
I, as a homeschooling parent, owe nothing to our public schools, nor do my children. If you want the other children that don’t do as well (who are not always lower income) to do well, TRY TALKING TO THEIR PARENTS! How absurd to put that blame on US!
Obviously, you haven’t met many homeschooled people. To call them “geeky” makes you seem very much like a junior high student having fun by making fun of others. Grow up.
Learning in your home is not weird and allows our children to learn the way that they will continue to learn for the rest of their lives after college, by experiencing REAL LIFE. Never in real life do you stay confined in rooms of people ONLY YOUR OWN AGE.
I suspect your main reason for disliking homeschooling is because you are a teacher. You are insulted that parents might think that they can do just as good a job or better teaching THEIR OWN children. You teachers really have a problem grasping reality. Just because everyone has a right to an education does not mean that you have the right to force your ideas on my children as if you know more about them than I do!
Do some real research before you go on a tirade next time.
I am just bewildered about the socialization thing. I went to private school until grade 6, then public until college. Upon graduating, I did not consider myself well socialized at all! I was so grateful to get out of that institution because it felt like child abuse, how my peers treated me. This happens to 1 to 4 kids in every class, they are taunted and kicked around all through school, and the adults can’t or won’t make it stop. It took me 10 years to regain my confidence.
That’s not the top reason I homeschool but it’s up there. Socialization does not happen just because you send a kid to school.
Ok, this article had to have been written for comedic relief. Relief, of course, directed at the frustration, angst, and stupidity so often encountered in the traditional school system. You can keep the drama, neither my children nor I, need it.
In order of your “reasons”, I offer my responses:
10. I don’t care if some alcoholic 18-year old who is in college specifically to get drunk and acquire STD’s calls my child a “geek”. I’m sure my child wont either, considering he wont have had to endure 18-years of self-esteem lowering bullying at a so-called “academic institution”.
9. My child learns where he chooses. That could be on our couch, reading a book and playing Wii at the same time. Or, maybe he’ll learn while cooking in the kitchen. Perhaps he’ll learn on a camping trip, or on a vacation to some foreign land. Who knows. The point in, my child is not being taught to do apparently what you wish to teacher your students: mainly, to turn their brains off and on in certain locations.
Now that you mentioned it though, it explains why the schools produce so many “smart” children who are otherwise so stupid when they leave the school.
8. Homeschooling is selfish. Right. Because devoting your life to your children is just so self-centered.
7. As agnostic myself, god’s views on homeschooling ring largely irrelevant. Nonetheless, if my child so chooses, he has access to any religious text he cares to read.
6. Your “qualifications” may be impressive to an academic board, but the children you teach could careless. What you know has little to do with your ability to impart what you know on others.
There is nothing in your credentials that would compel most children to pay attention to you when you talk, care about the subject you teach, or even respect you as a person. This country has the most credentialed teachers in the world, from some of the best school. Why do we produce some of the most thoughtless humans?
5. Skip
4. Children learn to appreciate other cultures by visiting different countries and seeing the humanity in people who live differently, not by being thrown in the American school system which has a very low appreciation for different “cultures” in its own right.
If by “cultures” you mean races, children learn what they live. Didn’t Strom Thurmond sleep with and father a child with a black woman? Did that intimate experience change him from being the racist that he was? If so, he didn’t send out the memo before his departure.
The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, no matter what bucket you put it in after it falls. Children raised by racist parents will likely carry parts of that with them forever, and no matter how many different “cultures” they are exposed to. They will likely find reasons to justify their racism(which is rarely about lack of education about others, but rather self-hatred, and that is something neither your academic qualifications, nor the school, can remedy).
3. My child and I spend all day long, in the “real world”. My son plays with public schooled children, private schooled children, and homeschooled children. We spend very little time at home during the day, and most of the socialization he gets comes from responsible adults in the community. He has spent very little of his childhood biting other children, and/or being bitten, fighting over toys, and being for a teacher to just glance at his pretty picture. He’s polite, happy, extremely outgoing, articulate, and already good at mediating the arguments on the playground. I take little credit for who and how he is, save for the fact that I believe his being home has helped to retain his sanity.
2. I homeschool as to NOT gamble my child’s future. I don’t know you, or any other public school teacher, well enough for you to have at my child(for pay) for more hours in a day that I do. What I do for my son, I do for free, out of nothing but love. I’m sure your motive for teaching is to save the world, but I’d rather not take a guess at it.
Like most, there are very few teachers who made a big difference in my life. Out of the say, 35+ teachers and professors I had in my academic career, only a handful stand out as anything less than a waste of my time. You do the math. Public schools are a big gamble for children in every area that is of difference.
My child’s future is in his hands, not yours. If he begged me to go to public school, so be it. I’m not holding my breath though. Most of his friends hate school, and who could blame them?
1. Ah, the “geeky”(meaning “smart”) homeschooled kid. This issue goes back to your first “reason”. You know, your #10. The “what will other people think” reason.
Seriously, your writings make it clear why homeschooling is the better choice for my family. Even as a teacher, you are still concerned with juvenile/immature thoughts of what “other people” will think. Trust me. I feel you. I went to public school too, and the ridicule and constant concern for how other people could view me still invade my mind sometimes.
Out of “selfishness”, and “arrogance”, I choose to not have my child go through these things at the level of intensity offered by most public and private schooling, least he grow up to be an adult with the same immature concerns.
It is revealing that for all of your education, you, an English teacher no less, write like a snotty tween. Is it any surprise there are parents out there who are tring to find an educational outcome that rises above arrested development?
Pingback: Principled Discovery » Do homeschoolers care too much?
Hi. I was home-schooled in Florida in the 1980s, when home-schooling was a crime. I learned all the stuff other kids learned, I guess. I especially loved English. Chaucer, Shakespeare (I have two friends with B.A. degrees in English who never read a page of Shakespeare in high school or college. It is astounding.), Wharton, Elliot, Tolkien, Lewis, Steinbeck, Waugh, were familiar to me – I’d like to say old friends but I was only 17 – by the time I decided to quit school and join the Army. But that is jumping ahead. My parents were kind of radical, I think, compared to today’s home-schooling parents. They really anti-schooled me.
I started out the day, every day with a cup of coffee and the Tampa Tribune, with I read from front to back. Then I would work on some math problems my mother had prepared for me before she went to work. (She had been a fifth grade teacher but hated it. At that time she was a preschool teacher.) Then I might do some translation work (Greek), then do some research for my Dad (he was a minister). Usually around noon I’d walk down to the river and sit under a tree and read. I first read Plato under a tree by that river. He was fun, but not half as thrilling as John Locke. Sometimes, I’d set a line for a fish. But usually I’d just read.
I enjoyed history. I didn’t have a text book, per se. Rather, I was given to read books such as Franklin’s “Autobigraphy”, Booker T. Washington’s “Up From Slavery”, all of the then extant volumes of the Oxford History of the United States, Shelby Foote’s “The Civil War” and many others. I remember the histories I read that were utterly thrilling were the intellectual histories by the famed historian Forrest McDonald. Of course, there was Churchill’s “History of the English Speaking Peoples”.
I must admit that I was worried about my science education. I seemed to hardly have any, Just what I picked up from reading Popular Science, National Geographic, and a couple of other science oriented magazines. Sometimes, if I read something in the paper that had to do with science, and if I thought the newspaper could have said more, I’d go to the library to research the subject. But I was worried about college, would I be ready for that level of work? Nevertheless, when I got to college and took chemistry, anatomy & physiology, astronomy, and biology I did get As with almost no effort, well, I would have gotten an A in biology but I skipped the final to go to a party. I knew I’d pass the course with a C without taking the final, so I wasn’t worried. But again, I am getting ahead of myself.
In the evenings, I’d usually practice music: Guitar and mandolin. My mother tried to teach me to play the piano, too, but I had no aptitude for it.
Church played a large part in my life. I was in church on Sunday morning, Sunday evening, and Wednesday evening. Many Saturdays I had church youth group activities, such as painting the houses of old people.
One Christmas my Dad bought me an Italian cookbook. I learned to cook. When we visited the church in Miami (my dad was his denomination’s overseer in Florida) I’d talk food with the women in the church. (Miami isn’t only for Cubans, you know? There are huge Jewish, Italian, and Haitian populations there.)
I have friends who went to school and learned not so much that is usable today. How many of them still play football at 40? In fact, even the joy of learning seems to have been beaten out of them by school, and they are astounded when they see me reading what they consider obtuse and obscure texts for pleasure. I still play the guitar and cook Italian.
After I decided to quit school (What was I going to do, have a graduation ceremony for one?) I joined the Army’s 101st Airborne Division. Since then I’ve worked as a paralegal, a bookkeeper, an advertising executive, and a business manager. I earned a B.A. (cum laude) from the University of Massachusetts but I have to admit that it hasn’t really done much for me. Other than APA format (I already knew Chicago from when I was home schooled) I can’t think of anything very important I learned in college. Well, that’s not entirely true, I did learn that psychology professors often have trouble with Aristotle, that is, they seem to have not read his work on fallacies. If anything, I think of the B.A. as the high school diploma I never got. The education my mother gave me was much better than what I learned in college. Oh, one huge exception. Math. I learned a lot of very interesting math in college, and have a lot of respect for my math professors.
I’ve had a good life. I’ve lived all over the country, have had four sons, several interesting jobs. Many good friends. I can’t see where homeschooling has hurt me, but I see many ways it has helped me.
Education is an Industry. It is a “commodity” that is bought and sold.
Every teacher has a personal career interest in promoting his industry and further propping up his security.
We must be aware of this motivation and be balanced in our personal and family decisions regarding educational philosophies.
I taught at a christian school in Minnesota in the early eighties. Back then the teachers unions were trying to shut down the growing segment of christian schools that were cutting into the govt. school’s dominance. The real reason I faced political pressure from the union is because about 4% of the teachers were laid off in Minnesota over the 2 years I was teaching there. The union faced shrinking membership and budget cuts because of this.
Follow the money and you’ll find strong motivators for human behavior.
College is also an option that is necessary for many professions, but not all.
Rush Limbaugh was once asked by a caller; ” What college should I apply to, to become a talk show broadcaster?”
“Go to work!” Rush stressed. “Get a job in the broadcasting industry. This isn’t taught in textbooks!”
I’m not an automatic pusher of college for everyone, either.
My electrician takes home more money each year than my pediatrician. You can’t learn to be an electrician in college.
While I am not a big supporter of homeschooling children, I feel like your arguments are somewhat unjustified.
10. I have never in my life heard this as an insult. In fact, at my university there is a student who is a year above me but three years younger than me. I was able to converse with him one day and the first thing I asked was, “Were you homeschooled?” It was not meant as an insult, I was actually quite impressed with the kid. By having a 30 minute meal with him I noticed he goes against a lot of the stereotypes of homeschooled children. He was not fanatically religious nor was he socially awkward. In fact, he seemed to be well adjusted, smart, and funny.
9. In college, high school, middle school, and elementary school I always learned better in classes where I was allowed to eat. By snacking in class it helped me keep hunger at bay which, in turn, helped me focus more.
8. How is it selfish? Isn’t wanting to put high achieving students in poor quality schools selfish? Putting those students in those schools isn’t going to increase funding which has a direct affect on the quality of education. Furthermore, every parent has a reason for putting their child into homeschooling. In high school, I had a friend with a brother who was in middle school. He was bullied relentlessly and the school wouldn’t do a damn thing about it so his mom pulled him out of school to save him from it. She did her damnedest to homeschool him while working a night job.
7. Did God call you this morning and tell you this? Who are you to know what God hates and loves? Nobody really knows, and the bible (which has been translated and re-translated and censored) isn’t exactly his direct thoughts either.
6. While I agree homeschooling parents can be a bit nutty, a well educated parent can teach their child a lot of things. Hell, even an uneducated parent can teach their child things.
5. As a teacher in training, I think it’s people’s prerogative whether they want to homeschool their children or not.
4. Homeschooling can breed intolerance because parents breed intolerance. Most children take on their parent’s viewpoints at an early age. Also I find it laughable and ridiculous for you to even mention the idea of MTV teaching children tolerance. If anything, it would have a negative influence on someone who does not regularly interact with people of a different ethnicity/sexuality because of the mountain of stereotypes and negative portrayals that MTV regularly defecates. You seem to ignore the fact that even children in public schools can be extremely intolerant. For example, students in my high school (black, white, etc) were intolerant to Asians and homosexuals. Yes, you could say that it was a lack of contact with them but there are other ways that hate could have been instilled in their heads.
3. This is hit or miss, but usually miss. A lot of homeschooled children do turn out socially awkward but there are a few who don’t (like the young man I mentioned in point 10). It is entirely in the parent’s hands whether their child becomes properly socialized or not because it is the parent who controls where the child goes and can play. Furthermore, children who do go to schools can turn out socially awkward too from a number of things such as Asperger’s Syndrome, bullying (resulting in social anxiety disorder), and a number of other reasons.
2. You’re pretty arrogant yourself.
1. I find this quite offensive as I suffer from social anxiety disorder which was brought on by, surprise, being bullied in a public school. Isn’t it a little rude to chastise someone for not having the same social skills as you? Some people can’t help it and some people can’t help not developing them very well due to whatever environment they were brought up in.
Anyway, those are my two cents. Treat yourself to a couple of tootsie rolls.
Pingback: HERP&ES » Blog Archive » I’M STILL ALIVE…
Thanks for the laughs. This parody of how government school teachers “think” is, perhaps, just a little bit too over-the-top. But entertaining nonetheless.
I think you’ve correctly identified school as primarily a social, rather than educational, environment. It’s rare to see a teacher admit that. Unfortunately, the social experience is limited to same-age, same-interests, same-culture peers and true interaction is limited to a short lunch period. As a member of a very diverse town, I see the high school lunchroom as an icon to segregation. In addition, everything about the school experience attempts to force every child into the same, extremely narrow mold.
Typical home school kids, on the other hand, are much more free to be themselves, and tend to be accepting of all ages, races, and abilities. They also have a much stronger focus on education. The only thing geeky about them is that their vocabularies tend to be much stronger and they’re not afraid to express their own opinion.
Sure they stand out. They’re better prepared for true interactions in the real world where they’ve spent all of their time, rather than the isolated cocoon of school where their time and actions are ordered for them and their only associations are with kids being molded with exactly the same cookie cutter.
I don’t know about the American system, which is certainly extremely diverse, coast to coast, north to south; and which is much less standardised than elsewhere.
But on standardised tests, here in Singapore, homeschooled children – and children in alternatives to public education, that is to say in the madrasahs or the local Adventist school – do do worse in terms of the standardised sixth-grade national exam than those in the public system. The highest-scoring homeschooled students score lower than the highest-scoring public school students. Now, in religious schools I’ll grant you that these students will likely not be entering mainstream society, because they’re focused on training future leaders in their respective religious communities; but the majority of homeschooled students will, and many enter mainstream secondary schools – which begs the question of how they’ll keep up with their peers.
And this is not even touching the issue of socialisation.
If you have a spare 20 minutes then give the chap in the link an ear.
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
Not so much homeschool vs not, more benefit of school in its current format.
I found it interesting anyway =]
Thanks for making agnostic liberals look like harping jerks. I am a liberal and a weak atheist (note to Christian readers who are unfamiliar with philosophy, a ‘weak atheist’ doesn’t mean someone who is weak because they are an atheist), and I wouldn’t want you teaching my children that smug, elitist attitude.
You seem to have some issue with Christians. Being an atheist who grew up Southern Baptist, you might think I would agree with you, but the truth is that you can come to a parting of ways with the church without being embittered. Yes, there are a lot of dopey Christians, but as you’ve proven, there are also a lot of dopey agnostics and atheists. If you’re going to use Christianity against Christians, you better do a darn good job of it; better luck next time, because I honestly don’t think God cares if children are home-schooled. In fact, if God were real and if he were like the Bible says, he probably would say not to send them to secular schools.
Regarding your “home-schooling is selfish” commentary–my only comment is, “and?” I mean, really–and? I plan to home-school my children because I want them to get a good education at their learning level and at their pace. This is selfish, but I really don’t understand the reasoning behind putting my children at a disadvantage to help the whole of the community; I especially don’t see how my child being in school would be beneficial for the rest of the students. After all, it’s not my child’s job to educate his peers; it’s your job. As a child, I sat bored out of my mind in classes that went too slowly for me; my presence didn’t help others a bit, and probably made them feel worse for being slower. Admittedly, I incurred some wrath over my perfect GPA. Even my teachers got tired of me in high school; I was told not to answer questions and let others have a chance.
Besides, I don’t think you really care about helping the community; I think this whole thing is about an ego-stroking for you. You think it’s “geeky,” you think you can do a better job because of your degrees; this is more about how you feel about homeschooling than actual benefits or disadvantages of home-schooling. You calling out homeschooling parents is a bit like the pot calling the kettle arrogant. “Because it pisses you off.” Yes, I’d rather not have you teaching my children with that sort of attitude. “Oh, I don’t like it so it’s bad.” That’s the pinnacle of reason, certainly.
You say that home-schooling *could* breed intolerance, that it’s geeky, that it’s an ‘insult’ to have been called home-schooled in college, that the mothers are society-phobic, that it’s bad to study where you eat Froot Loops, that it’s selfish, and that God hates it. You fail to give any actual reasons, actual statistics, point to any studies that give results of home-schooling (I saw the demographics studies, but all that points to is who is doing it, not whether it’s working). If my kids can learn Latin at the same table where they eat Froot Loops, where’s the harm in sharing space with cereal?
On the intolerance issue–any parents who are going to breed intolerance in their children will do it regardless of their school settings. There are plenty of intolerant children in public schools. As far as being exposed to different cultures, I think your large assumption that these children will be growing up in a bubble, only sitting at home with mom or dad from breakfast to bedtime, is fallacious. Also, I think that by jumping on the God Hates Home-schooling train, you are showing that you have an intolerance for home-schooled children and Christians both, which you may possibly be passing on to your own students.
Last thoughts: one of the most successful students in my high school was home-schooled until 8th grade. At first, yes, she was a tiny bit shy; at first, we made a bit of fun of her behind her back for her odd clothes and odd parents. By the time we graduated, she was one of the sharpest, brightest, most well-liked, most out-going students at our school; her initial reception by us isn’t a reflection on *her*, it’s a reflection on *us* and our “public school is better than home-school” education. She didn’t conform to what anybody had to say or think about anything; she struck out her own path, and she’s currently going for a doctorate after having graduated from Harvard in 2005.
zzzzz…Talk about a waste of time reading this slop. Whats the biggest bitch you hear from teachers? “We need to have smaller classroom sizes!!!” Guess you need to have control over all childers in this country…get a life.
My children were taught in the public schools. The eldest came home to learn in 6th grade. The youngest came home to learn half way through the 3rd grade.
Their public educations were train wrecks. for the first to years it was mostly remediation. We plan to send the kids back for public high school. This means she gets only one year of home school free of the necessity of remediation. This makes me feel very sad. It means that my youngest, who will have been home schooled from 4th grade to 8th grade, will be far better educated than my eldest.
The staggering vanity shown by Jesse Scaccia aside, s/he is simply ignorant of the realities of home school.
What do you say to someone that arrogant, and that narrow minded? Really, I’m starting to wonder why I’m composing a response at all.
There’s no point. This morning the kids will spend 3-4 hours reading, writing and preparing for the ITBS. Then we’ll go out into the sunshine and visit the Zoo with other home school families. Tomorrow afternoon we’ll visit the Chrysler Museum. Thursday we may visit the Botanical Gardens, although the boys are clamoring to visit the Air and Space Museum. Friday the home school community meets to ice skate at the local rink, we won’t miss that…
If I’m still angry five minutes after I leave this web page, I’ll take my revenge by continuing to live well.
Remember my friends: we are fortunate. Let’s rejoice.
Hear, Hear!
Jesse:
You said:
So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? [sic] Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me, [sic] and biology as well as a trained professional, and history… and Spanish… and art… and counsel for college as well as a school’s guidance counselor… and… and…
Consider this excerpt from an essay called “The Lost Tools of Learning,” and then read the whole thing. Most of the homeschooling parents I know have familiarity with it.
It was written by Dorothy Sayers, who in 1912 won a scholarship to Somerville College, Oxford, studying modern languages and medieval literature. She finished with first-class honors in 1916.
“Do you often come across people for whom, all their lives, a “subject” remains a “subject,” divided by watertight bulkheads from all other “subjects,” so that they experience very great difficulty in making an immediate mental connection between let us say, algebra and detective fiction, sewage disposal and the price of salmon–or, more generally, between such spheres of knowledge as philosophy and economics, or chemistry and art?
. . .
Another quotation from the same issue of the TLS comes in fittingly here to wind up this random collection of disquieting thoughts–this time from a review of Sir Richard Livingstone’s “Some Tasks for Education”: “More than once the reader is reminded of the value of an intensive study of at least one subject, so as to learn the meaning of knowledge’ and what precision and persistence is needed to attain it. Yet there is elsewhere full recognition of the distressing fact that a man may be master in one field and show no better judgement than his neighbor anywhere else; he remembers what he has learnt, but forgets altogether how he learned it.”
I would draw your attention particularly to that last sentence, which offers an explanation of what the writer rightly calls the “distressing fact” that the intellectual skills bestowed upon us by our education are not readily transferable to subjects other than those in which we acquired them: “he remembers what he has learnt, but forgets altogether how he learned it.”
Is not the great defect of our education today–a defect traceable through all the disquieting symptoms of trouble that I have mentioned–that although we often succeed in teaching our pupils “subjects,” we fail lamentably on the whole in teaching them how to think: they learn everything, except the art of learning.”
My Geeky, 100% homeschooled son started college at 15, and just got a full ride to RIT. How many of your wonderful, socialized public school failures can say the same? He doesn’t wear fashionable clothes, listen to the latest music, doesn’t know how to put a condom on a banana, doesn’t know or care about obscure African cultures or how lesbians live their lives, or any of the other wonderful benefits of public schooling, but he’s on track for a 90K plus starting salary after college. I guess I can see why that pisses you off.
Today’s homeschooled kids will be the bosses of today’s public schooled kids.
I second your comments Dreadpiratk! God bless your family.
Hey, fellow homeschoolers! I read this article and as I was going through it I was, at first, upset but found myself laughing by the end of the article. The author is so ignorant it is hilarious to me (not that that sort of thinking shoud be taken lightly)! I wish all teachers are as educated as she is but the fact is that most are not. As “smart” as she is she should be able to see that most school educated children are on a serious downslide all over the country especially compared to their homeschooled counterparts. I had also thought that children’s socialization was very important until my husband and I experienced first hand how that “socialization” (and the school system) is cruel and corrupting in most cases. My stepdaughter (my husband’s daughter), although highly intelligent, is mentally ill and has a lot of angry issues stemming from her drug addicted mother and her life before coming to live with us. Although we sought help for her, she was not given any but instead she was turned away from our family and our family was torn apart for a long time. We have since lost this child to the system and we are determined that this will not happen with our other children. Both my husband and I were routinely teased and bullied (getting into multiple fights to protect ourselves) as children in school. And beleive it or not, some of the bullying and teasing came from our teachers. I know that we would both be so much more if our intellectual growth was not stunted by the system (as well as by a lot of our teachers) as children. Kids recieve the same socialization (actually better) from being around their parents and older/younger siblings. They learn from different levels of maturity and how to help/love each other which keeps the family unit strong which is the backbone of society. Contrary to what she says socialization a few hours a week with other races, sexes, and beliefs outside of the family is enough. She is worried about racism and sexism from lack of socialization but is willing to call a homeschooled child a “geek”?! I’m wondering if she is fearing for her job because of the increasing numbers being homeschooled or if she has had some tramatizing experience that she is relating to homeschooling (which in reality, may or may not be directly related to it). I rather for my children to seem to be lacking in “socialization” than to be bullied/injuried/tramatized by and in a system that not only promotes these issues but at times also inflicts and aggravates these issues. I rather for my children to grow and flourish spiritually, intellectually, emotionally, and physically unbidden by the system’s catch-22 politics and hypocracy. I rather teach my children right and wrong and how to be GOD loving, intelligent, and compassionate people who love to help all people and things in GOD’s creation than to have the school system turn my children against our family and into non-spiritual, borderline intelligent, and selfish people who only care about tearing someone else down because “learned” that it is “fun” and the way to get ahead. She has the nerve to call homeschooling parents selfish when she doesn’t know the half of what we go through and have to sacrafice in order to make our children’s future’s brighter than our won futures. We put aside of our wants and time to ourselves (the ability to eat a whole meal sitting down and time to sleep 8 hours every night) for our children because that is what parents do and there is nothing SELFISH about it!
I’m getting on a full blown rant so I’m going to stop for now. I have so much more to say but I may not stop if I don’t stop now.
Peace and Blessings,
Nikki
This post made me really sad. I hate intolerance and nastiness no matter who it’s directed towards, but when it’s towards my children it’s especially hard to take.
There is one factor that most directly causes intolerance and prejudice, and that’s ignorance. It’s true that when we get to know other cultures and people who are different then we realize we have more similarities than differences and we can no longer see them as some evil “other.” I think it’s obvious that you really need to get to know some homeschooling families so you can be exposed to our “culture.”
My kids interact with far more diverse people precisely because we homeschool. Our little rural school is so white and conservative. It’s a great school with great teachers, but it’s not a place where it’s a good thing to be different. We have friends who are gay and straight; Christian, atheist and everything in between; South African to Scandinavian. Don’t assume that because we homeschool, we don’t embrace other cultures. We actively seek them out, because we think it’s vital too.
I have spent my life defending people against racism and stereotypes. Whether it’s towards welfare recipients, immigrants, homeschoolers or gays, it makes me profoundly sad when people judge from the outside and hate. I cannot argue with your hate and I don’t want to add to it by hating you. I encourage you to reach out to your local homeschool community and get to know the people you fear (because isn’t a tiny bit of fear always hiding in prejudice?).
The one bright point of this whole depressing page is that I think it’s clear that you truly care about your students and are passionate about teaching. I am so glad for that. Those kids deserve that. I want that for all kids, no matter where they’re schooled.
Homeschooling works for our family. We love it and our children are thriving and happy. That’s enough for me.
This probably would have been better off in a good old fashioned diary. Seems to me you are spewing a lot of hate here which therefore makes you anything but qualified to teach children.
Don’t you have actual students to worry about? According to too many statistics that come out about the aptitude of publicly educated students(myself included sadly)…you may want to focus more and your kids and less on what successful families are doing. “How can teachers help students do better” would be a great next read what with all your experience. This just isn’t professional.
Not only are you an idiot, but most likely a big reason most choose to homeschool their children. Why would we want our children to be taught by someone as ignorant as you? You have all these fancy degrees, but no intelligence!!!
http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/ken_robinson_says_schools_kill_creativity.html
Ken Robinson says schools kill creativity.
I would like to thank you for reassuring me that my decision to home school was the correct decision. Your arrogance and ignorance are a comfort in that I wouldn’t want you or anyone like you for a teacher. I made my decision years ago after helping hundreds of future teachers such as yourself with research every year in an academic setting. I eventually came to the conclusion I wouldn’t let 90% of these idiots train my dog.
Hey! My name is Naomi. I’m 16, i’m your not so
average kid. and why yes, i am home schooled. my point to writing a comment to your very closed minded blog is to show you homeschooling from my point of view. i did go to public school in kindergarden and 1st grade…the reason why I left? The teachers were too busy yelling at all the other kids that no learning was going on. My mom sat in on the class and witnessed all of this. So she decided she could do better, and she has.
I have enjoyed huge amounts of social activity with our homeschool group. A group filled with different races, different ages and people from different “wealth” classes.
I have grown up in your average home, not rich not poor. for you to say that most home schoolers are rich, you are very mistaken. Yes, some are, but what does that matter?
Another thing I want to point out in your blog. You say that when parents take their children out of public school it limits how many people they can witness to and so on. You are very wrong.
I started going on missions trips when I was nine. I am now 16, you do the math. I have been to Hungry, Romania, Russia, Thailand, Burma, Laos, and summer 2009 I am going to the wonderful country of China to share the love of Jesus Christ.
I also share the love of Christ when I go to the grocery store (in fact i work at a grocery store ) the park, the mall, Waffle House, where ever my friends and I decide to hang out that day.
so you really cannot say we are limited in wittnessing to people.
Something I think you should learn is seeing from everyone’s point of view…I see why public school can be good and I know how home schooling can be good.
My boyfriend is in public school. He has now graduated and he said that he would never want his kids in public school.
Obviously you are someone who has had a bad experince with home schoolers and I apologize. But do not attack something which you do not understand. I guess I should end this, it’s getting long. I hope you have a good day.
Naomi G
“4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance”
Interesting complaint, from the author of one of the most intolerant rants against a group of people I’ve ever seen.
Physician, heal thyself.
It’s public educators like you who make homeschooling look better and better.
Maybe you should re-title this post “10 Reasons You Shouldn’t Put Your Child In My Public School Classroom.”
You just made me feel so much better about homeschooling my children!
Your entire article portrays a brainwashed, mindless mentality of one “educated” in public schools.
Let me go through your 10 “reasons” (which are not reasons, but your opinions or opinions with no support but links to articles by writers who share your narrow view on education and misguided belief that education belongs to “teachers” who call people “geeks” and says that someone’s schooling choice “pisses” them off…Yes, really great teacher material! – that was sarcasm.)
.10 You claim: “Homeschoolers are looked down on in college.”
I wasn’t. People were genuinely interested. I graduated cum laude from a great university that many public schooled teens would not have been able to attend. I was in sports, on scholarship for that and my grades, held numerous jobs, volunteered, had lots of friends, and worked closely with professors for semesters of independent study – yeah, all on my own or with another student working in-depth on research and experiments under the guidance of a faculty member I chose. Oh the arrogance of those professors to not have held me in a classroom full of students who didn’t desire to learn more on their own!
.9
You claim: “Homeschoolers are messy freaks who eat fruit loops mixed with meatloaf and rub it on their books.”
We don’t buy fruit loops, it’s garbage and not nutritional. Meat loaf is a lazy meal. We tend to eat chicken picatta, marsala, or have something else we cooked with time spent measuring, reading, learning and engaging our minds. (not to say quick meals like meatloaf don’t have a place, but I bet a survey of actual homeschoolers would show they put effort into meals, just as they do into lifestyle choices, like where they learn.).
And while you might think American Idol and Wii are the epitome of American culture, most with half an ounce of culture would disagree. I can hardly stomach the blurbs about American Idol on the news…it’s a sick mentality of living vicariously through the accomplishments or humiliations of others.
Perhaps that is your whole issue with homeschoolers ? You seem to decry anyone who lives a life with purpose and zeal and would rather they all just join the herd and ingest American Idol and sit in a school desk to do busy work while the all-important state teachers try to help the slow kids and the once-smart kids then lag behind for lack of attention and in the end, they can all be one, big, under-achieving herd.
8. You claim:
“Homeschooling is selfish”
For any parent to acknowledge that their child is more important to them than other children is not selfish. It is putting their child’s life and potential ahead of what any narrow-minded teacher might think. It is putting their child ahead of what they might like to do…many parents homeschool b/c there is no better option in their location. They might not want to, but sacrifice their time, freedom, and popularity for their children. Yep, what selfish bastards!
Poor children with less literate parents are the product of a society that puts personal responsibility on the back burner. If a child is taught that their success in life depends on their own efforts, that they cannot think someone will hand them success on a silver (or in your case public school) platter, they will learn to strive for success on their own. Those children will then be parents who work not expecting others in society, such as public school teachers and the children of strangers, to give their children motivation and self-worth. Parents who were taught that success depends on putting their own efforts continually to the end of bettering their life, education, etc. will “selfishly” (as you put it) strive to teach their kids that you might get a few breaks in life (read the book “Outliers” by Malcolm Gladwell), but in the end, the sheer amount of time and personal effort are what determine your life’s success. No expert is created by suffering some stranger’s child to motivate them. They have drive and desire…not expectations that someone else will do it for them.
You should be embarassed even making that statement! Homeschooling parents are some of the most un-selfish people on the planet!
7. You claim:
“God hates homeschooling”.
Your agnosticism is honest, but perhaps you have some fear of God in you…you capitalized His name. Most who don’t believe in God can’t even do that. So good job, your years of English training show through.
But your logic…hmm, not seeing it. Phil. 101 is usually a logic class…maybe you missed it in all your years of English classes.
You obviously only dug up a couple Bible verses to give your ranting credibility…but God didn’t give people children to have them throw their parental duty to educate them out the door when they turn 6 or 5 or whatever age people decide to send their children to public school.
Parents with religious reasons for homeschooling often hold the belief that their duty as a parent is not to surrender the moral formation of their children to strangers in a an atheistic public school system. Or strangers who are agnostics. You obviously would not approve of someone teaching your child that there is a God, and likewise it’s equally disagreeable for a family who believes in God to send their child to an environment that denys their religious rights or employs teachers with a bias against those of faith.
Parents who believe they have a God-given duty to educate their children and raise them up to be children of God do not do so out of fear of what the agnostics think… Agnostics admit, in the act of classifying themselves as such, that they don’t think they can know if there is a God or not – so how then can they claim to have an opinion on what those who actually believe in God do? Your classification of your own beliefs nullifies anything you might have to say.
6. You claim:
“People who homeschool are arrogant lunatics.”
No, they simply have not been sent to schools where the teachers tell them that their self-worth is a derivative of what the “smarter” kids think of them (as you state in #8 as fact). Parents who choose to homeschool are not arrogant, but know that they can do a better job educating their children than a public school teacher who thinks that because she was an English major, she can ignore facts (such as the fact that her definition of her belief system involving deities negates her claims about other’s beliefs in God.).
Parent’s who homeschool are simply people who know that their work and efforts on behalf of their children are good and that their children are worth the effort and work that homschooling requires.
The teaching that takes place in public schools is currently under par, as evidenced by federally mandated Acts, (eg. No Child Left Behind Act). Teachers are forced to teach to the tests. They work the entire year, often dispensing with curriculum altogether and just focusing on getting their class to pass the tests – by this I mean SOLs. This is a narrow and shallow form of “education”. You are not giving a “grand multi-cultural”, blah, blah, blah…sort of education and experience that you claim public schools give, but one, narrow, little strip of content, fed to students for the mere purpose of passing tests to retain funding.
I for one know that I can do better. It’s not arrogance, it’s simple logic. But teachers in fear of loosing their jobs to parents might not agree. . .
5. You claim:
“As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)
That’s good enough? Really? You’re an English major with two Master’s degrees. Did you get them from a Cracker-Jack box? What journalist or writer makes a purely emotional rant and claims that such a thing suffices as reason for their statement? I know – a purely arrogant one! Just like those darn arrogant homeschoolers. “Hello, pot, I’m kettle.”
You show your lack of credibility with this one as well as your mean-spirited personal agenda. . .the idea of someone doing something better than you pisses you off. Well, you’re entitled to your opinion, but you look rather foolish giving your educational biography and then making statements a teenage kid could counter in an argument.
4. You claim:
“Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism.”
Intolerance seems to be the theme of your ranting. You are intolerant of anyone who doesn’t want to defer the authority to teach to agnostic strangers who believe their own “education” is superior to that of others.
Homeschoolers are not stuck in a same-age, same sex peer group for 8 years or 4 years (gradeschool and highschool) as public-schoolers are. Homeschoolers are free to spend their day with people of different ages, sexes, and ethnicity. My best adult friend is Japanese. One of my husband’s best work-place friends (he was homeschooled too) is African American. His wife and kids became good friends of myself and my children. We have friends from Alaska to Florida, California to New York. My kids have seen more than half the states already and have seen first-hand (not from the spoon-fed, state mandated levels of diversity in your textbooks) the diversity of our country. They have life experience. And I feel lacking the “experience” of sitting in a classroom regurgitating state mandated info for tests is about as important as the “experience” of working as a child in a coal mine during the Industrial Revolution.
Children in conventional schools are stuck. Stuck with the same kids, year after year. Younger kids tend to congregate in same sex groups: boys with boys, girls with girls. If they live in a small town, they see the same kids from kindergarten through highschool graduation. That’s NOT diversity. Pinning kids into the same room, at the same desk, for months on end if NOT a rich and diverse environment. To claim it is, well, again, that is more arrogance on your part.
3. You claim:
“Homeschooling leaves a child unprepaired socially”
What I just answered to #4 about same-age, same-sex peer groups that public schools foster is one reason homeschooling is better. Socialization. . . It is learning how to function in society. That is not what public schools teach. Public schools foster ideas, such as the one you put forth that your self-worth is derived from what others do to motivate you (see #8). Public schools foster environments that are unhealthy. Bullies, babies, smart kids, dumb kids, “gifted”, remedial, etc. These are some of the labels applied to children in the public school system. Geek is another, you seem to have learned that one. You could add drama queen, prom queen, mathalete, jock, nerd…none of these labels accomplish anything worthy.
Homeschoolers are free to be free of labels. Homschoolers are free to be themselves.
The forced conformity in public schools leads to a class of people, an entire society of people who are less likely to stand up, stand out, or be different. Who would have stood against the status quo, if Martin Luther King had been a good little conformist and sat down quietly? Who would have made a stand if Rosa Parks had been a quiet little conformist at the back of the bus? Who would have invented, had Eli Whitney or Ford believed that they should not be smart, or it would make others feel bad?
Socialization, via public schools, is not what any person who stops to think about it would want for their kids.
2. You claim:
“…many highly educated, high-income parents are “probably people who are a little bit more comfortable in taking risks” in choosing a college or line of work. …” And then you go on to suggest he means gambling with their child’s future.
Are you putting your quotation marks in the correct place? It sounds like Mr. Cate is saying highly educated people are more comfortable taking risks with their own college choice and lines of work, not their children. To misquote him would be sad, for a English & Journalism Master.
Perhaps highly educated parents have learned via life experience that even professors at universities are just human beings who often have simply a mastery of something in so far as they have mastered the art of test taking necessary to achieve accreditation? Recognizing the fallibility of human beings and that institutionalized “education” promotes many who are not truly masters of subjects, but are just good test takers, is not arrogance, but honesty. You cannot measure learning. Learning is a theoretical construct. It is something that you cannot see or hold, you cannot know if child has “learned” their ABCs…you can just measure their recitation of the ABCs, their writing or reading ABCs, but no matter how you try, you cannot measure learning. Institutionalized education has promoted the idea and process whereby students are awarded not for showing or applying their learning or mastery of a subject, but for how well they take a test. I could read a book on welding & forging, answer all the questions and theory on metals, temperatures, processes, etc., but not truly “master” the subject until I have applied that material to the metal myself and used it while examining the color and malleability of metals and have a thorough working knowledge derived from experience, not from being “educated”.
So if there is arrogance in education, it’s not on the part of parents who feel they can do it better with one or a few kids on their own. It is not arrogant to think hands-on, one-on-one, child-led learning will yield better results than a class of 20-30 kids with one teacher who has no personal stake in the child achieving, save to keep their job by means of having their students take a test well.
The arrogance is on the part of a those who believe that an educational system designed to regurgitate information for tests and to retain school funding is a good learning environment. The arrogance is on the part of those embracing an educational system that would halt the progress of those who show aptitude, simply because it might make someone with less aptitude uncomfortable. How many Einsteins have been suppressed b/c the school librarian felt they didn’t deserve the 4th grade shelf of books, even though they read at 5th grade level? How many Einsteins have been suppressed b/c the teacher needed to get through physics and on to something else in order to teach all the material needed to pass the SOLs ?
One parent working for the betterment of their own child out of care and love is better than 100 teachers working to promote themselves, their profession, research or to retain their school’s funding.
If you don’t think so, apply your “arrogant” label to yourself.
1. You claim:
“homeschoolers are geeks”, ” Which, I would argue, is a likely result of being educated in an environment without peers. It’s hard to get by in such a diverse world as ours!
Hmm, diveristy & peers, diversity & peers…those are contrary things. Diversity means people of different ages, cultures, educational levels, etc. Peers means people who are just like you. You can’t say lack of experience in dealing with people, “just like you” undercuts your ability to integrate into “people of all different sorts”. That’s a fairly stupid argument !
Let’s be honest. When you get out of highschool and into the “real world” of college and beyond, life and the world is diverse. You might have a college freshman of 17 and one of 30. You could work at 22 at a job with a co-worker who is 60. This is diverse in age and experience. But to claim homeschoolers are geeks b/c you think they missed out on peer contact is just a fallacious argument.
Peers in highschool are those just like you, same age, etc. But you argue public schools are so diverse? A “grand experiment”. So where are the true peers? I mean, if it’s diverse, then White-y-Joe whose dad’s a white-collar executive is not a peer to Jose-Joe whose mom cleans hotel rooms, nor is he a peer to Jamal-Joe whose dad drives the subway train.
You can’t have things both ways. I can’t be a homeschooled geek who doesn’t integrate b/c I lacked peer contact, meanwhile not “integrating” into diversity you claim public schools are full of. Homeschoolers have diversity in age, sex, and culture…remember? The homschoolers are not stuck into the same-age, same-sex peer group for years on end or chained to a desk.
If I was in your version of public school, I would have started school reading at age 4 (yes, I did) and been told to do some busy work while the teacher worked with the slow kids, so that I didn’t make them feel bad b/c they derive their self-worth from me. Then by the next year, I’d be a little less ahead, and each year would bring us to the point where I was at the same level with the kids who started out slow. We’d all graduate and “integrate” into society… ( I didn’t slow down. I was Valedictorian and went on to college.) But my school experience in your fictitious world would have taught me that to integrate, I need to do no more and no less than others…so why do those who work hard and achieve get promotions?
Oh, yeah, that’s right, it’s “The Real World” now. In the real world, you don’t sit on your butt doing “busywork” letting others pass you by. You work hard, or you get passed by for promotions or raises. In the Real World, you don’t have colleagues who are your same age and sex, but all different ages and experience, so any highschool “peer experience” is useless. I don’t need to relate to people my own age, I need to relate to the 40 year old mother of three working two jobs (not my “peers” who are fresh out of college).
The narrow scope of any required and forced diversity found in public schools (think about the busing in poor students, etc.) is not going to be equal to the genuine diversity of homeschooling. You go out and live life, all your life. Not starting in college. You integrate into “The Real World” the day you are born.
Maybe that is the trouble with it all. . . homeschoolers give up the pretense that we can live in a subculture protected from anything we’d like to avoid b/c we are “in school”. Homeschoolers go out into the real world and make a difference and integrate each and every day. We don’t start treating others nicely once we’re out of college and need a job, we recognize that others are members of society and we all work together from the start. We don’t bus in African Americans b/c we are so arrogant that with think we can make their miserable lives better…homschoolers just make friends with them and live life and don’t label them as undereducated or ignorant.
The real world isn’t one where you can clothe yourself in master’s degrees, and then make unfounded commentary, pretending others cannot see your ignorance. The real world would be nicer if everyone stopped trying to force those living in it to join an educational cult & hide in it until adulthood and only then expect people to treat each other without bias. The real world is nothing like highschool or gradeschool. Nobody rewards the pushy bitch, nobody holds up production for the lazy worker; there are expectations and achievments and everybody has to work hard in the real world.
And your last comment completely supports what I’m saying:
“And the more people you can hang out with the more likely you are to succeed, both in work life and real life.”
Your sheltered public-schoolers cannot achieve what you claim as a good thing, they are bound to certain groups and forced into your required peer groups. The number and scope of who they can or cannot hang out with is controlled. Homeschoolers are free of that.
The more of us that homeschool, the more of us that will be hanging our with more and different people…and we will succeed in “real life”. We are succeeding in “real life”. You cannot ignore ivy league colleges and other colleges recruiting homeshcoolers.
Real life – Maybe people can expound on that. Real life isn’t highschool or gradeschool or the halls of acedemia. Real life and the real world are open to homeschoolers from the beginning. Think about that!
I was wondering if, as an English teacher with your credentials, you could help me with a grammar question.
Which is more correct:
A) “So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?”
B)”So, first of all, homeschooling parent, do you think you can teach English as well as I?”
I think it’s time to lay off of Jesse. Really, people.
The man’s grammar and diction are both unimpressive, but he mocks his commenters for failing to spell-check their posts. He starts a furor with an intemperate and pathetically ignorant attack on homeschooling, then ridicules those who rise in homeschooling’s defense for being “defensive”. And all his education in journalism failed, apparently, to teach him that a journalist should learn something about a subject before presuming to run his mouth about it.
Nobody reading this blog needs the blessing, approval, or understanding of this arrogant, petty, condescending, over-credentialed underperformer. He has no standing to pass judgment on anybody’s decision to homeschool, and we should stop treating him as if his opinion on this subject matters.
Leave Jesse to his little blog. We all have better things to do than trying to enlighten this dope.
“8. Homeschooling is selfish. According to this article in USA Today, students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families. To take these (I’m assuming) high achieving students out of our schools is a disservice to our less fortunate public school kids. Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.”
How can you compare “wealth” with “literacy”? Money is just that, money. It doesn’t make someone smarter or better than anyone else.
You also said that the wealthy are better educated, and according to USA today, most of them are home-schooled. How exactly does this help your argument against home-school? I don’t care how selfish the rich are. I only want one thing from them, anyway.
What we need from the wealthy is for their taxes to go to the poor schools. Not their kids! In most cities the rich kids don’t go to the same schools as the poor kids. They usually attend school on the “other side of the tracks”, so the saying goes, in wealthier school districts.
This is the economic disparity that should be corrected. If the education money were distributed equally then all the schools could be better equipped. The wealthy don’t want this to happen…naturally they’d like the schools in their district to be the best.
I also disagree with your assumption that a rich person’s child somehow contributes more to the classroom. In my experience, the wealthy kids come from families where the parents both work too much.
Most of them are a disruptive influence, probably owing to the child-wrecking combination of a neglectful, parentless home life, too much money and no supervision.
Leave the wealthy kids at home and let my classroom remain peaceful, a place of study for those poor kids who have a genuine desire to better themselves. Those are the kids that I would rather help, anyway.
–Daniel.
You just don’t get it – public education is about teaching, homeschooling is about learning.
Stick with what you know.
Many people have made points here that I could have. I will focus on something that has not been delved into much.
The USA Today article you cite references a NCES report (of which I could only find an Issue Brief from December 2008) based on the 2007 National Household Education Survey. It is interesting to note that “a concern about the school environment” was cited by more parents as a reason to homeschool than “a desire to provide religious or moral instruction.” (When pressed to cite just one of their stated reasons was “most important,” the “religious/moral instruction” reason was singled out by 36% of respondents versus 21% who chose “concern about the school environment.”)
“Wealthy” is defined by the survey respondents as families earning more than $50,000. While that amount of income is not to be considered poverty, I don’t know of many people in 2007 who would consider it “wealthy.” Also, consider the fact that according to the 2003 version of this survey, homeschooling households are more likely to have more children and thus spread the income earned over more mouths to feed. (“In 2003, homeschooled students were more likely than public or private schooled students to be living in families with three or more children (62 percent compared to 44 and 41 percent, respectively). Compared to public or private schooled students, homeschooled students were less likely to be an only child in the household or to be in a household with two children.”)
In the 2003 survey, it was cited that 22% of homeschooled students and 25% of public schooled students lived in households with annual incomes above $75,000. Twenty-six percent of both homeschooled and public schooled students lived in households with annual incomes of $25,000 or less. So, LESS homeschooled students than public schooled students in the survey were in higher income brackets and the SAME percentage were in the lower income brackets. (I could not find such a breakdown online for the 2007 report.)
Homeschoolers are saving tax payers money. Homeschooling families pay the same property tax rate, income tax rate, and other local/state/federal taxes as their public and private school family counterparts but also (in most cases) purchase all their own educational materials. Another study by the NCES cites states spending an average of $10,000 per student on K-12 education.
Sources used: http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2009/2009030.pdf
and
http://nces.ed.gov/pubs2006/homeschool/
The English in this post is so poorly written and its argumentation so flimsy that it could have only been written by a public school teacher.
You’ve convinced me. I need to home-school my children.
Pingback: Notes from the sidelines of the public school/homeschool wars « The Eye of the Hurricane
Ah, dear boy, you have proven here the issue with public schools – uneducated teachers. Regardless of the number of your degrees, you fail to make logical arguments. I doubt many homeschooled children would fail as thoroughly as you have here. Selfish parents send their children to babysitting – er – school so they can work – in fact, selfish companies that wanted to get more workforce began this whole practice of forced education during the industrial revolution. It’s failing and you all are flailing to try to prop it up, likely because some like you have invested so much in such a flawed system. That’s unfortunate and we have empathy.
Get this out of your system in whatever method you need to but eventually, if you really are a thinking person, please educate yourself on the facts. I realize that educating oneself is a difficult operation for those who’ve come up in the flawed system that disallows any critique of itself as formidably as any tyrannical organization, but I have faith that you can surpass your upbringing and look into this with an open mind and some day write a passage that doesn’t sound this completely ignorant.
Surely you know that most history teachers are gym teachers who’ve been tapped to teach history – and this goes for math and other subjects as well. Only in very wealthy schools do the English teachers have English degrees. Do you honestly fool yourself or are you a mouthpiece who is terrified of losing a job? And if so, who’s the selfish one? A parent who looks out for their child’s best interest and forces you to become the writer you really wanted to be, or the teacher willing to put millions of children at risk to save his own hide? Just wondering…
Your article is closeminded and one-sided. I learned more in my 3 years of being homeschooled than I did in the 9 years of public school preceeding and following homechooling. And that is because I taught myself and I was interested in what I learned, I wasn’t force fed “knowledge” by “teachers” like you.
You say that homeschoolers are socially inept. Well if that’s true it is also true that public education represses children and keeps them in a state of immaturity, often until the real world slaps them around in college. If you’re homeschooled and then go to a normal public school you immediately realize that 95% of peers your age are immature morons and 70% of your classes are a complete waste of time. Main reasons why I skipped 3 years of HS and went on to college.
Thank god for the lessons homeschooling taught me so I could make the right decisions regarding my education down the road.
More truth about homeschooling:
http://moralmidnight.wordpress.com/2008/01/04/the-truth-about-homeschooling/
More truth about public schooling:
http://moralmidnight.wordpress.com/2008/03/05/the-truth-about-public-schooling/
Thanks for my laugh of the day. You simply can’t be serious with this top ten list. I laughed so hard I spilled the Fruit Loops and dropped the meatloaf.
Wow, you surely picked a hot topic but I am not totally surprised by the heated response. Your post seemed almost deliberately combative as if you wanted to illicit some heated debate. For those who have enough education and time to home school their children, then it is their right to do so. For those who don’t want to or simply can’t, public or private schools pick up that responsibility. Home schooled children do miss out with some school experiences but they gain in other areas because of the specialized attention they get. And I think home schooling is a way for parents to make sure their kids grow up to be little versions of themselves. Which could be good or bad thing depending on whether you’re a Christian or a Nazi.
Hey Jesse,
Interesting blog post. I find it thought-provoking because I assume your contact with homeschooled children and/or parents is extremely limited. My sister-in-law has homeschooled her 6 children. She has attempted to release them into the public schools many times but after a week back in the swing of a PS education, they beg to go back to homeschooling. They are too far ahead of the pack and the distractions are too numerous. The kids are pretty well-adjusted and have no problems socializing. I think your “case against homeschooling” is really a case for your ignorance of real-word results. Being ignorant of something doesn’t make one stupid, but it does raise the question on why a teacher would possibly attempt to excoriate something you obviously know little about. I believe your case would be thrown out of court very quickly.
I was homeschooled for two years, and when my parents put me back in 6th grade, I found myself wayyyy underprepared socially. It took me a year to get over my shyness. I can only imagine what it would have been like if I’d been homeschooled more than two years. I did however learn a lot of things I probably wouldn’t have learned, such as Latin. But it’s possible to teach your child these things with 30 minutes a day outside of school hours.
Daniel,
Sorry you were wayyyyyyy underprepared socially. That was not your fault, you should take that up with whomever homeschooled you.
But I understand your situation. I had to move from one public school district to another school district in the 6th grade. It took me until after High School to get over my shyness. And I never even got to learn Latin!
Hope you’re all better now.
What an embarrassing “argument” against homeschooling. I hope that’s not an example of how good (rational, logical) argumentation is taught in school these days.
Point by point:
10. So the fact that some young people use a term as derisive means… what? Oh, wait, wait… I know this one, I read The Lord of the Flies. It means that the teasers are little shits, that’s all. One might want to avoid the kind of socialization they’ve gotten.
9. Pitiful. You can only learn in an officially designated “learning environment”? Alas, so much for the field trips to museums and all the other cool places one might go. I’m working on a graduate degree–and the *vast* majority of my learning work is done at home. Learning can–and should–go on anywhere, any time. Not just in the officially designated space where–if you’re lucky, lucky, lucky, you might get 10 minutes in a whole school day of attention directed to your needs, interests, problems and confusions. Hell, we do more than a (school) week’s worth of educational time on a bad morning here….
8. Selfish? Wait, we pay our taxes that pay for public education and receive *none* of those services, and we’re selfish? We provide for others, and we’re selfish? Since peer pressure is so significant, perhaps we should be asking how the pressure works here–the very small percentage who are “geeky” (your slur), religious (well… sometimes, some are–that’s an inaccurate stereotype), and don’t fit in (point 10) are going to somehow herd the vast majority of apparently semi-illiterate, hostile to being educated kids back to being clean cut and hard at work on their grades? Talk about delusional claims…
7. Fail. Aside from the fact that the majority of homeschoolers don’t claim religion as a reason, you’ve made the dubious assumption that it’s a single view of religion. Further, I know for a fact that a fair number of atheist and agnostic homeschooling parents claim “religious reasons” as a shorthand way of saying that there’s too damned MUCH religion in school. Like textbooks that have been bowdlerized to meet the Texas School Board’s retrograde views on science, or the peer pressure (oh, there it is again) to come and pray around the flagpole.
6. “Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy.”
Nice ad hominem. This argument proposes that homeschooled kids get an inferior education. Yet… hmm, the stats, over and over and over… say that’s wrong. They get a superior education and college professors find them to be better prepared to do college work, too. (BTW, just for what it’s worth, *my* qualifications to teach would include a double major in English and History (don’t need education, I’m not trying to herd 30 kids and keep peace and get compliance with regulations…. Plus 15 years actually practicing using the language as an editor and writer, before having kids.). But more to the point… you’ve ingested the toxic notion that you “pour” education into someone, rather than that *they* learn, and you facilitate. My sons didn’t read until they were much older than the schools would like (and far later than I did). But within a year of deciding that they wanted to, they were reading way past their peers. When you have an 11 year old reading at the level of a senior in high school… that proves something. But since they weren’t *forced* to fit the Procrustean Bed of “school” they actually enjoy reading, and spend a lot of time doing so, on their own, of their own free will. The complaint I hear most from schooled children’s parents is that their kids hate reading. Sad….
“…and biology as well as a trained professional,” Bets? Their mom is one, and a chemist. “… and history…” My field. “… and Spanish…” If/when they’re interested, that’s a snap to arrange. In the meantime, we found it entirely possible to arrange for them to get lessons in German and Japanese–from a woman both trained as a teacher (who was impressed by their interest and engagement…) and who also learned those languages as a child. “… and art…” Snort.
5. How embarrassing to announce one’s bigotry as an argument.
4. “Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. ” Could.
Schooling does. (See “homeschooled” as a slur, and “that’s so gay,” and “geek,” and…).
Could versus Does.
3. Socialization occurs in a classroom? But you’re supposed to sit still, be quiet, pay attention to the teacher. Where’s the socialization in that? Oh, during recess and lunch? When the cliques form and various ethnic groups frequently separate and sit apart? Where kids learn that anyone a year older is cool and should be emulated–but is dangerous and might lash out–and anyone a year younger is a baby who should be avoided lest one be associated….
Let’s see… homeschooled kids I know. Interracial friends, friends of different religions (and none), friends from other cultures, friends of widely different ages, no sense of the other sex having cooties or being totally alien. Able to have an extended conversation with adults and much older adults.
You know, the kind of socialization that looks like the way people in the real world interact, rather than something analogous to prison cliques. If that’s socially unprepared…
2. That’s a grade loss–same (bad!) argument twice. While more highly educated people are opting for homeschooling, that’s a recent cultural shift. Essentially, they’ve started to opt out, but the truth is that plenty of others already were, or had. People not as invested in the mainstream culture because it wasn’t serving them. It worked. And as the culture’s failures have become wider and more apparent–particularly in education–even those who (being better off) are more invested are opting out. That’s not arrogant. That’s recognizing that the “product” being offered is substandard and does not meet their–or their children’s–needs. So they’re going elsewhere. “Taking a risk”–yes. Life’s a risk. Full of them. You make best choices, and constantly reappraise.
(Given the reactions to my sons’ intellect and knowledge–and socialization, as measured by their behavior with other kids–by the parents of other kids *in school*, we’re doing well. And in fact, people keep coming and asking about homeschooling, because they *like* what they see… and because what their kids are getting in terms of education and social interaction at school has them very concerned.)
1. “Not to hate” — how… Bill O’Reilly. Before I tell you what a vile and disgusting person this is, I want to announce that I don’t hate….
Funny, a couple years ago, a female friend extolled the virtues of geekiness in a husband, and went on at length. Geeky. Like… who? Successful people like Bill Gates (oh, bad example, he didn’t rise through the approved educational filters and is a geek)? “Geeky” is usually applied to people who are too smart (?) and actually do the work and learn. Who apply themselves. And then, well, there’s a degree of geeky that’s got to do with inescapable individual characteristics like introversion and introspection–which school can’t “fix” (but can torment kids who are, very effectively).
Heavens, if it’s a result of peerless education (yes, pun intended), might explain why people like Jefferson were so… geeky.
In closing, addressing your “offer,” no thanks.
Yes, TeacherRevised is missing an important voice in the teaching community. But I can’t imagine why one would want to become the token voice of homeschooling in an environment which is openly prejudiced and celebrates its bigotry.
This whole thing is ridiculous. You can’t say that all children have the same needs. Some kids need homeschooling, especially those with special health needs, and some kids need public school. It sounds to me like you’re just holding onto some kind of childhood grudge.
Wow. I think all the name calling, finger-pointing and judgemental attitudes in this post are enough to convince any homeschooling parent they are doing the right thing.
There are also so many assumptions made that are based on stereotypes and cliches that many of these points are really irrelevant. And the argument that taking the good kids out is selfish b/c it is bad for the school is absolutely ridiculous. If government schools in America were BETTER people would WANT to keep their kids in… There is ALREADY a problem and that is why people are leaving… The problems do not start with “wealthy” people taking their children out of failing public schools.
American was founded on the idea of FREEDOM. To pursue life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness… If someone desires to teach their children at home so be it! No one should be forced or coerced into sending their children to a public, government-funded school. THAT sounds a little less than freedom to me… Regulations and accountability for homeschooling is fine – as long as it doesn’t infringe on personal rights in the home.
Most people who don’t like homeschooling are simply intolerant of Christians/religious people who are making a choice not to send their children to secular government schools. Their double standard is so plain – they would force everyone into public schools that teach ONE world-view and deny, push out, even persecute other viewpoints (mainly religious viewpoints) all in the name of “tolerance”.
This post is really actually very honest and that I do like about it… It gives the closed minded attitudes of those who claim to be so tolerant…
I must say your ten points made me laugh. You cannot be serious! It is not possible that someone can actually state what you say and not be joking. No, really, seriously: you are joking, right? it is all just to get everyone to react.
If you are not joking, one never knows after all, then perhaps you should try some other job than teaching. “Normally” a teacher is someone who wishes to impart to or share knowledge with other people. Your method sounds more like bashing. Have you had a room full of kids yet? do you just yell at them what they have to think, how they have to think? do you use name-calling with them? do you use the “I will say anything just to get them to think like me” approach? Ever since we started homeschooling I have found more and more reasons that confirm homeschooling is a great idea: you have given me one more. Thank you. I would hate to think of any of my children being “taught” by you. Brrrrr! just shudder to think about it.
However, let’s remember: you were joking so you probably are not who you pretend to be on this write-up. Thanks for the entertainment.
#10 I don’t make choice for my kids based on what other kids may tease. If I did I’d make sure they didn’t eat veggies, didn’t join band, drank and did drugs and never spent holidays with their family.
#9 Since when are public school classrooms are conducive to focus? Anyway, the world is our classroom.
#8 I agree. Same would go for people who send their kids to private schools. Take it up with Obamas.
#7 Cool!
#6 You’ve bought into the elitist idea that a bunch of degrees gives you special powers. Anyone who’s gone to so much time and expense to get the them all will naturally defend their usefulness to the end. But do we really know what makes a good teacher?
#5 See #6.
#4 I saw race riots in school in my day. Don’t think too much tolerance was being learned those days. Our current public schools is remarkably homogeneous. We love our friends of different race/sexuality/background because we interact with them in positive ways and share things in common with them, such as homeschooling. Anyway, I think tolerance comes from a deeper place than where you go to school, as I seemed to have developed it in spite of my bad experiences.
#3 If socialization is what we need to hang out with people like you, it’s overrated.
#2 Public school is not a risk?!?
#1 See #10.
I’m fine with homeschooling, and I’m sure that your children (and thousands of other homeschoolers) are not geeks. My point was that by homeschooling, you ostrisize your child from the mainstream. Just something to think about.
And as I’ve said over and over in other posts, I would never want homeschooling banned. I don’t know where anyone got that idea.
Honestly, I have just as many problems with private schools, which are institutionally elitist…
And I have just as many problems with public schools, whose standardized tests numb everyone’s minds and make everyone lose sight of the true purpose of education.
I just happened to write about homeschooling, and obviously my piece crossed the line between provocative and offensive. The homeschooling community–for whatever reason–took my words far too seriously, and the spirit of what I was saying is lost. I think you all would agree that HS is just as imperfect as a lot of other teaching methods.
Jesse,
Maybe you should stop making recommendations about what other people should think about.
Your original post said homeschoolers “tend to be pretty geeky.” You characterized homeschooling parents as self-aggrandizing, society-phobic, selfish, and arrogant. You wrote that homeschooling pisses you off, and that God hates it.
Now you say you are “fine” with homeschooling and you’re “sure” the kids of the homeschoolers who’ve written here are not geeks? Are you some kind of a clown? The not-very-funny kind, perhaps?
Why do you think you have any credibility when you judge others? Your criticisms are riddled with logical fallacies, your ignorance of your subject perfuses every sentence, and your writing (supposedly your area of expertise) is disorganized, poorly-edited, and entirely without style. You thump your chest over your credentials, but even your resume is padded (when a school gives two fellowships to first-year grad students, a recipient of that fellowship is not “the Perry Morgan Fellow”).
You flatter yourself when you say your post crossed the line from provocative to anything. In truth, it started off stupid and it stayed there.
You worry that the spirit of what you were saying was lost? Brother, the problem is that the spirit of what you were saying was unmistakable: Homeschoolers are selfish, arrogant, and narcissistic, so blind in their religious fervor that they can’t see that God hates what they do. Am I mischaracterizing what you wrote in the slightest?
That’s what you wrote. If that’s not what you meant, maybe you should finish up that grad school program before you blog again. Clearly you need another diploma.
Ken,
Why still so angry and defensive? When do we get to hug?
Sorry, man. I’m just not that into you.
Ha.
Can you clarify two points for me, though?
First, does homeschooling piss you off, or are you fine with it? You’ve said both, and I’d like to know which statement is operative.
Second, I’d appreciate it if you didn’t dodge the question. In my prior post, did I mischaracterize what you wrote about homeschoolers? If so, how?
And one side note: Defensiveness involves protecting against criticism. I haven’t had an opportunity to be defensive, because you haven’t managed to criticize me yet. (And how could you? You know nothing about my decision to homeschool my son, and you’ve not engaged any of the points I’ve made in my few comments.) I, on the other hand, have criticized you, and quite sharply and unambiguously, I willingly admit. Your only reply has been to dodge the substance of what I’ve said and play the jester, taunting me for defensiveness and asking about hugs. Who, pray tell, is really being defensive?
Hi Ken,
No, I wouldn’t say that homeschooling ‘pisses me off.’ Sometimes my writing voice takes on a Mark Twain inspired, hyperbolic flair. There are key parts of HSing that concern me, and that offend my vaguely socialist impulses. As for whether or not I’m fine with it, like abortion, it is not something that I want for my family, but I support the individual’s right.
Jesse,
It occurred to me driving home tonight that, although I resent the tone of your original post and much of your follow-up, the fact that you bothered even to start and engage in such a conversation puts you ahead of many, many educators. You care about what and how kids learn. So, kudos to you.
That said, the tone of your original post was inexcusable. You say now, “I wouldn’t say that homeschooling ‘pisses me off’,” but do I really have to remind you that point five of your original ten was that homeschooling pisses you off? (Jesse, you actually wrote that God hates homeschooling. You really said that. I swear. I’m not making that up.)
I’ve also found your handling of some of your commenters (such strange animals, that defend themselves when attacked) smug and condescending. Maybe you are right to take this tack — after all, this is better than being ignored, is it not? But it strikes me as unnecessary. Rude. And presumptious, in that you haven’t begun to establish the authority you would need to talk down to anybody on this subject. Your original post screams “Prejudice!” and your follow-ups suggest you formed your initial opinions on practically zero evidence.
The worst part of most of your commentary on this thread is the implication that you alone weigh the pros and cons of homeschooling, and that the mothers and fathers who have chosen to forego public education services, even at great cost to themselves in time, money, and mental and physical energy, do so lightly, or without grappling with the objections you raise far more extensively than you have. And you dare to accuse others of arrogance?
These criticisms aside, you seem like you are a decent guy with his heart in (more or less) the right place. You have my email address. If you want to take this offline, shoot me a note. I’d be happy to talk about why we homeschool, what we do, how things are going, and what we hope to accomplish. If you’re ever in my neck of the woods you’re welcome to come by and check out the process for a day or more. I can’t promise a hug (if you turn out to be a decent fellow to drink beer with I could probably work one up for you after two or three). It’s not all sunshine and roses, but what is?
Ken,
Just a short reply before my girlfriend kills me for being on here so much…
But I think a lot of what’s gone on here has been like a fight between a stubborn couple: a little expression of empathy, and admission of one’s own shortcomings early on, would have gone a long way to set the tone. Instead you have this, a runaway train of diatribes.
I truly didn’t mean to be condescending with my comments, and I’m sorry if I was. I think the source of that, to a great extent, was an exasperation on my part. I kept thinking, “Yeah, my argument was aggressive and imperfect, but where is the self-reflection? Do HSers really believe that it is this perfect?”
Because in the end, I don’t care if I’m right; I am one educator, and one man, and I am often wrong. More important to me is that we all are reflective, and question our practices on a daily basis. That goes for all teachers, not just HSers.
Point taken. Still, it seems a bit disingenuous on your part to complain about the tone. Just re-read the first line of your original post.
I haven’t read all 1143 posts (congratulations, by the way) so I won’t make any blanket statements, but nothing that I’ve seen seems to contend that homeschooling is perfect. I know in our case it was more of a last resort.
Although you may have read responses I haven’t read, it seems you’re reading, “homeschooling is perfect,” wherever you see contradiction of your original argument. But that’s unwarranted. “Homeschooling is perfect” isn’t the opposite of “homeschoolers are selfish, anti-social, narcissistic, arrogant, etc., etc.” What people are saying is, if you’ll allow the paraphrase, “What? No, we’re not. You don’t know what you’re talking about. Jerk.”
Or words to that effect.
Yes, we should all be reflective. As I’ve said elsewhere, it’s the implication that homeschoolers are generally NOT reflective that is the most insulting. You think we’re doing this just for kicks? Just to thumb our noses at the system? You think we didn’t think long and hard about this, investigate the alternatives, and pursue our other options before choosing to take our children’s education entirely into our own hands? Maybe a few didn’t, but I doubt the number is statistically significant.
I know that description doesn’t apply to me and my family. I suspect the overwhelming majority of commenters here are in the same boat, and resent being tarred as thoughtless and uninformed (and worse). I suspect they agree with me that those adjectives could much better be used to describe your initial post.
Teacherrevised,
I think one of your mistakes is to assume that we are NOT reflective.
And if you truly want people, home schoolers, to be “reflective” than YOU, dear sir, should be much less condescending.
I don’t reflect on garbage. Stuff that I can easily pull up a dozen studies to prove wrong.
Since my original post disappeared, I would like to point out one thing (my original post had quite a few comments).
Your first reason for not liking homeschooling was because some kids in college may call you “homeschooler” as a way to insult you.
Can I just take a moment to point out the obvious? These are presumably public or private schooled kids who are name calling. That’s called BULLYING. Trying to make other’s feel badly for some perceived “negative” is the essence of BAD SOCIALIZATION. So you’ve given an example of BAD public school socialization, and then made this a reason to NOT homeschool? Does this make sense?
And another thing. You said that they would call these supposed “geeky” types “homeschooler” even if the kids wasn’t actually homeschooled. So now, I can see that really going to a public school will not actually prevent being called the dreaded “homeschooler” name after all. So what was your point…oh yes, public schooled kids in college are bullies and they will pick on kids who are public, private, or homeschooled. Gotcha. Thanks for the warning. I’ll be sure and warn my 11th grader who has every intention of going to college.
You don’t care if you’re right? So you feel comfortable forming an opinion on something without any good reason whatsoever?
Isn’t that one of the reasons you eluded to as to why it’s bad to homeschool? Wasn’t “tolerance” something you said homeschoolers lacked?
You feel comfortable spouting your intolerance and don’t care if you’re right about it, but you think homeschoolers should be more tolerant and care about what you said.
Are you going to teach tolerance? If you are, are you going to pick and choose whom you tolerate? Will you just tolerate people like yourself? Democrats? Non-religious people?
Am I supposed to teach my kids to tolerate YOUR views, while you bash mine?
I don’t think so. I teach my kids to respect EVERYONE’S right to have a different opinion. But I cannot teach them to agree with other’s opinions. You on the other hand, clearly have NO tolerance for other’s opinion.
Or are you so arrogant as to believe that YOU know what’s best for my children…even more than *I* would know what’s best for my children? Are you so arrogant to presume that the government is better suited to raise my children than I am?
Yes.
(I’m kidding.)
You’re taking things a bit extreme, Michelle. No one is trying to take your kids away. Everything is going to be okay. Really, it is. I’m so that I got you so riled up.
Apparently you read about as well as you write. I didn’t say anyone was trying to take my children away.
However, there are those who’d like to take my right to homeschool away. I’d venture to say you’re one of them.
“You don’t care if you’re right? So you feel comfortable forming an opinion on something without any good reason whatsoever?”
Yes, that’s right, the shovel isn’t slowing.
It’s like watching a train wreck in slow motion. It just can’t resist its own momentum pushing it to self destruction.
This not-quite-apology would mean more if there was some indication that you were taking your own advice and reflecting upon what you have learned. Unfortunately your comments are increasingly snarky and remain uninformed.
I am not qualified to do what you do and it’s a good thing I don’t have to. Your education prepared you to handle a crowd of students and herd then through an homogenized education experience, much the way a factory worker shepherds a car through the production facility. I, on the other hand, dealt with facilitating the education of just 3 students, two of whom needed very little help from me.
My ‘job’ as a homeschooling parent entailed watching my children to see how they learned and then providing experiences from which they could learn. I was not forced to adhere to a state-mandated curriculum and mold my children to fit that curriculum. So while you may worry about homeschoolers ability to do your job, we are chuckling at your ignorance in not understanding that we aren’t doing your job.
In the end, you are just confirming wit your every comment that your mind was made up before this conversation ever began and we should not bother you wigth facts because you just aren’t interested in thinking it through.
“a little expression of empathy, and admission of one’s own shortcomings early on, would have gone a long way to set the tone. Instead you have this, a runaway train of diatribes.”
And who do you think provided the locomotive.
If you’re wondering who set the tone, Jesse, look in the mirror.
I should address the tone of the original post. As I have mentioned elsewhere, the voice should have been read with a bit of the twang of Mark Twain in mind.
From my side, I expect readers to of courseknow that God doesn’t hate homeschoolers. And that they of course know that being called a geek isn’t a true insult, but is half compliment to intelligence, half commentary on social awkwardness. But, as it happened, HSers are not our regular readers, and they are not used to this kind of voice. If I had a chance to re-write it knowing that this would be the audience, the piece would have been very, very different.
Jesse, you just keep digging.
So what you’re saying here is that making fun of people is okay as long as you do it behind their backs and can’t get called on it. You’re a real quality guy, aren’t you?
Jewish homeschooling mama
“Jesse, you just keep digging. ”
Jesse doesn’t seem to realize that digging isn’t the way out of a hole.
Jesse, stop making excuses and attempting to minimize the enormous arrogance and total lack of thought in your post, and you’ll be on the way to a dialogue.
Apology accepted.
Did you really just suggest that homeschoolers aren’t familiar with Twain’s voice? Remember now…according to you, we’re a highly educated group. And did you really, not just once but a couple times, compare your voice to Twain’s–and then call us arrogant??
MissyMissyMissy
I know Mark Twain, m’am, and I am no Mark Twain. I just referenced him as a satirist who used hyperbole, but who believed in something of the core of what he was saying.
But I think Twain usually knew something about what he was writing…
Again, my complete response is on my own blog, but, as a former teacher myself, I have a hard time taking your post seriously.
Oh–and if you think of yourself as a satirist, you might want to rethink your writing style. Or find a really good critique group. Because this didn’t work out so well for you. (You did say that you teach English, right? Basic things like “pro’s and con’s” matter. Hint: they aren’t possessive.)
Not even in the same ballpark. Let me put it this way, Jesse. I’m pretty sure I could find a KKK website that with more moderate and thoughtful comments on African Americans than you used in discussing home schooling.
Why not re-write it, then? You have your chance, right here.
Jesse,
Homeschoolers are very used to commentary about socialization, socializing, and “social awkwardness” by people who are parroting what they’ve heard about homeschooling. It’s not that we’re not accustomed to that kind of voice — it’s that we’ve grown weary of it.
–Jen
Thank you, Jen. Weary of it is exactly how I’d describe it. None of the supposed “cleverness” in this piece helps solve the real issues for either home or regular schoolers.
It also does not provide solutions for the many medical home schoolers that districts really can’t afford to deal with.
In fact, all it does is perpetuate old myths and (hopefully) relieve some stress for Ms. S.
Jenni,
I don’t know anyone who homeschools who wasn’t weary after the first week of being asked, “What about socialization?”
In my finer moments, I quip that, Yes, socializing is a problem, but we’re trying to cut back. Followed by my award-winning grin.
In my less generous moments, I point out that Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold were socialized in the public schools.
I often wonder why homeschoolers aren’t stopped on the streets by teachers to be thanked–at a minimum–for reducing class size.
I’ve been ranting, at length, about public schoolers attacking homeschooling . . . there must be something in the water this month:
I’ve been ranting:
http://52churches.garriber.org/?p=1152
and ranting and ranting and ranting:
http://52churches.garriber.org/?p=1357
http://52churches.garriber.org/?p=1361
http://52churches.garriber.org/?p=1372
http://52churches.garriber.org/?p=1365
http://52churches.garriber.org/?p=1381
http://52churches.garriber.org/?p=1415
http://52churches.garriber.org/?p=1407
http://52churches.garriber.org/?p=1422
–Jen
Um. Yeah, Jesse. You’re just making it worse.
“You don;t understand what I mean cuz you’re just WEIRD!”
No, we understand what you mean just fine. It’s pretty pathetic, though. Gonna come to my house? I left my phone # and haven’t gotten a call yet.
I have read Twain. This ain’t it.
Social awkwardness? Because you know we like use eye contact and big words? I didn’t know that was awkwardness. And obviously homeschoolers and homeschool parents do read your stuff.
Oh, I see.
You didn’t MEAN it.
Geeky was just an affection word that you were using to refer to those home schooled children.
Yeah – it’s all making perfect sense now.
The Art and Science of Parenting
Who Needs School?
Meandering Through the Forest
Quickies From the Blogosphere
Of Thoughts and Quotes
Please don’t compair yourself to Mark Twain, and I will refrain from compairing myself to Wernher von Braun when I fold a paper airplane.
“I’m fine with homeschooling, and I’m sure that your children (and thousands of other homeschoolers) are not geeks.”
Apparently, intellectual honesty is not something teachers are qualified to teach either.
Own your words, or eat them, but don’t insult the integrity of your profession by lying when we can all read what you wrote. It’s bad enough you’ve insulted their intelligence.
bw
you are such a bore. for real. chill out.
my initial words are being taken a little too literally, and much more severe than i meant them, so i’m stepping back a little.
you, in particular, read the post in the most sensitive way possible, and have since, seemingly, all but ignored my follow-up comments.
why are you so sensitive? why such a desperate, wailing desire to yell at and belittle some stranger over and over? honestly… what part of you keeps pushing you forward?
love is all you need,
jesse
“my initial words are being taken a little too literally, and much more severe than i meant them, so i’m stepping back a little.”
Translation: you posted something profoundly stupid and now you’re furiously backpedaling, trying to put a little distance between yourself and your words. Sorry, but it’s a bit too convenient to say you were joking, especially since you initially responded defending the original work. About the only remotely plausible alternative scenario is that you’re a homeschooler who was writing a parody of common objections to homeschooling.
Anyone want to offer odds on how long before Jesse tries to remove the entire sad episode from the blog? Save it all to a text file now before the historical revisionism kicks in.
Ostracize my child from the mainstream?
WHY is being different so bad? You cannot get over this. Why not? I thought we were all about embracing differences, different cultures, different ways of being human?
But outside the mainstream is bad and harmful….
Heck, I envy those who get to live FAR more outside the mainstream than I–those who get to spend years abroad or traveling the country or whatever. “Mainstream” is mediocrity. There is no virtue in that!
Laura,
I’m not saying you shouldn’t be allowed to homeschool. I don’t think your child is a geek. In my post I agreed that you might be able to teach my subject better than me.
Just to make those few points clear.
Please . . .
learn English.
It’s “Better than I”.
as in, “Better than I could”.
not “Better than me could”.
LOL! You’re really funny Jesse!
(written by a very happily homeschooling mom)
An email dialog I had with a homeschooler.
HS: Indeed it did. It made me think you know nearly nothing about homeschooling. I’d be happy to write up a point-by-point response but, judging by the internet buzz, I figured you were probably swamped with lengthy replies.
10) Insults are a part of life. In college, in the work place, in elementary school… in provocative blog writing… To base important life choices on immature, ignorant statements is beyond immature and ignorant. It’s dangerous.
Everyone is an outsider in one way or another. There’s no escaping it. Have you researched the statistics on teenagers who consider themselves outsiders? Where are they educated?
JS: Of course we all feel like outsiders at some point. The difference is, in this case the parent chooses to make the child an outsider. Whenever a parent makes a choice that places the child in 5% of the population, it is a choice that should not be made lightly. Such a big part of any kid’s happiness is based on if they feel like they fit in or not.
I’m not saying this is reason enough not to HS, but its an argument in the case against it.
(As an aside, in today’s common nomenclature, the word ‘geek’ is not an absolute insult. It connotes intelligence, yet social awkwardness.)
HS: 9) Would you care to explain how Fruit Loops interfere with learning? Or how you’ve determined that homeschoolers spend their days around the dining room table?
This may come as a shock but, not only do we put our breakfast away before we begin any written work, we also leave the house!
I’ll leave the definition of “learning-focused” up for debate.
JS: Learning environment is huge to whether or not a student learns. The same reason why school classrooms don’t have Fruit Loops, Wiis, dogs, phones, beds, and basketball hoops is what concerns me about homeschooling. Again, not a dealbreaker, but, like I said, there’s a reason we have buildings devoted just to learning.
HS: 8) I am selfish. How funny that, in my selfishness, I continue to supply the funds to educate other people’s children! And how ironic that, if I were to put my kids in public school, a good chunk of those funds would be spent ON my children and NOT the less-advantaged. And just imagine the services the public school would be required to provide for my son, who is on the autism spectrum! Instead, we selfishly pay for private services. Don’t forget the overcrowding and how we selfishly refrain from contributing to that problem.
My children are not tools to be used in order to make the schools’ job easier. They are children, undeserving of that burden.
JS: You’re preaching to the wrong crowd when you complain about your taxes going to public schools. That said, I’m not against vouchers… I hope that your state helps to help your son.
My use of the word selfish is actually a veiled compliment to HSers, as I believe those children will almost surely be successful, no matter the educational environment, just because their parents care so much. If HSers suddenly all enrolled their kids in PS, PSs would be better overnight. And when PSs are good, society is good. So, in that sense, it is selfish, even if the efforts to HS are just about the opposite of selfish.
HS: 7) I’m an atheist. A hard-core atheist; none of that agnostic wishy-washy baloney.
JS: Ha! I was an atheist… then I worked at a Christian home. I still don’t believe, but too many people I love and respect believe for me to say that there is NO WAY they are right. So I downgraded myself. (I was raised Catholic and Jewish, by the way)
HS: 6) I am arrogant. And the Ivy schools (and all of the statistics) back me up in the belief that one need not spend years in a classroom in order to learn how to well-educate a handful of students.
JS: There’s been a lot of great counter-arguments to my post, but no one has swayed me on this point. There’s no way one or two parents can educate a child as well as the 7 to 14 trianed professionals the child would learn from in MS/High School. I grant that the HS parent/teacher might be the best of the bunch, but most lessons (even sciences) are somewhat subjective. Part of a good well-rounded education is to understand all perspectives and options, not just to understand one really well. Does that make sense?
HS: 5) Is an opinion based on multiple fallacies good enough? Not in our homeschool. Teaching logic is so much fun!
JS :This point was gutteral/lazy/honest. I should have done better, explained more. HS disturbs me because I feel like a) the kid misses out on teachers’ perspectives b) the child is denied the joy of true interaction with all spectrums of their community c) there are no checks and balances that the kid isn’t being brainwashed/steered down a narrow alley.
HS: 4) Are you actually suggesting that there is no racism in schools? Because I can assure you that there is none in my household.
JS: How do you know? One big problem I’ve had with the HS responses is the assured way they talk about thier moral education, lack of racism, etc. etc. How do they know if there aren’t department heads and evaluations and parents of students and colleagues to keep them in check?
HS: 3) You’ll have to define “socially unprepared”. Could my children glide seamlessly into a clique obsessed with reality television? Probably not.
Can they discuss most other topics with anyone from aged 4 to 100? Pretty much. That is, when we bother to unchain them from the dining room table.
JS: Isn’t there a problem if your kids can’t hang out with the majority of children? (Given that the majority are reality TV obsessed, or the like). Even if you disagree with that lifestyle, isn’t there something to be said for empathy, understanding, or at least tolerance?
HS: 2) I am arrogant (again). I’ve chosen to teach my children how to think, rather than how to memorize. You may perceive that as a risk. College admissions departments perceive it as a huge advantage.
JS: I refuse to teach to The Test. We agree on this.
HS: 1) Really? You’re going to end on “geeky”? I suppose it only makes sense after 9 points containing nothing but fluff. As I said before, my son is the ultimate geek. He was public-schooled for 6 years, homeschooled for 1. Do you really imagine he was King Stud of the 4th grade until I ruined him?
My daughters are far from geeky, and my husband and I are shaking in our boots, hoping we CAN transform them into geeks before puberty.
But, more importantly, are public schools devoid of geeks these days?
JS: Geek is not a full-on insult, as I’ve written…
It still hinges on the quality vs. quantity debate- you assume that just because a student gets more people in positions of institutional authority telling them what to think that this is better than one person teaching them how to think- it’s the fundamental difference between a quanity standardized “banking” education and a more quality emerging one. I’ve said it repeatedly- yet you refuse to directly respond (you just talk around it). So?
Mark,
If you could guarantee me the *quality* of the homeschooling teacher, I might acquiesce to your argument. But you can’t, and the fact is many homeschooling children will be undertaught by undereducated parents.
A lot has been made on this comments of your post where you took my paragraph and switched HS for public schools. But the only way your paragraph follows logically is to assume that there is some mass conspiracy between public educators, where we have all secretly decided what information to fill our students’ heads with. And you know that isn’t true. A public school student receives instructions from idiot athiests and believing bozos, from racist ranters to empathetic immigrants. There is a true value to that kind of exposure, I think you would agree.
And if after all of that exposure your child still believes in your views? Wonderful. But if not, you have allowed your child to find their own true path.
Why should I have to guarantee the quality of my homeschooling environment? The state run school systems should actually be the ones guaranteeing the quality of theirs, since I’m paying for them- and they haven’t been able to- as evidenced by our poor retention rates, our high illiteracy rates (and literacy in more than just writing and reading), and a general inability to think critically. I realize I am generalizing for the sake of this argument- but in my experience as an educational director for a school for at-risk youth as well as my current position as a college English professor there are glaring deficiencies in these areas with our students- students who have come from the public school system. And, don’t get me started on their tendencies to text message during classes, a real serious socialization issue in my estimation that deserves its own post.
Don’t forget- this is an argument you began- essentially it becomes your responsibility to prove your side- not necessarily to disprove the homeschoolers side. Thats where your fallacies come in.
BTW- I think we can both agree that the quality v quantity debate is in evidence with this very blog post- a lot of comments- very few quality responses that really create anything more than emotional reactions without any real logical basis (on both sides).
And, it may seem that “they will find their own ways,” but can this ever truly happen? Any way they think will be as an outcropping of what they already know- the more you learn the more you realize the less you really know. Again, it’s an issue of learning how to think as opposed to learning what to think.
Be careful- your job as a teacher is not to teach my children what to believe- religiously or otherwise (including any possible atheist or agnostic biases), unless you teach for a religious school and the parents sign up for that. And, I know there is no mass conspiracy just like you know you have no true control over what you teach in your classroom (my response was meant to show how illogical both sides sound).
Chances are you do not chose the curriculum- and if you do you’re probably teaching at a private school- which may create tons of ethos problems for you with your audience if you are claiming the issue is about helping less economically fortunate students- these same students who probably couldn’t afford to attend your school.
In the end you’ve done an excellent job starting a conversation, even if your fellow bloggers may not like to have their thunder stolen- well done.
Mark,
More to come, but you’ll like this (from the New York Times:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=980DEFDB103EF930A15756C0A9609C8B63&sec=&spon=
May 23, 2006
Hang It Up
By JESSE SCACCIA
YOU’RE a teacher in the New York City public school system. It’s September, and you’re lecturing the class on the structure of an essay. Your students need to know this information to pass your class and the Regents exam, and you, of course, hope that one day your talented students will dazzle and amaze English professors all over the country.
You turn your back to write the definition of ”thesis” on the chalk board. It takes about 15 seconds. You turn around to the class expecting to see 25 students scribbling the concept in their notebook. Instead, you see a group of students who have sprung appendages of technology.
Jose has grown an earphone. Maria’s thumbs have sprouted a two-way. Man Keung, recently arrived from China, is texting away on a cellphone connected to his wrist. And Christina appears to be playing Mine Sweeper on a Pocket PC on her lap.
Come the end of the term, a handful will fail the class. A number will never pass the Regents. As we all know, far too many will drop out of school. And I can tell you with no hint of pride that it isn’t the teacher’s fault. As much as any other problem plaguing our schools, the onus for failure should be placed on distractions in the classroom, specifically the cellphone.
Though electronic devices have been banned in public schools for years, the issue came to the forefront last month when Chancellor Joel Klein announced the random placement of metal detectors in schools. The result: more than 800 cellphones have been confiscated.
Students and their parents, who say they rely on cellphones for safety reasons, are outraged. There’s even talk of a lawsuit arguing that the rule should be struck down.
But as a former New York City public school teacher, I can tell you that cellphones don’t belong in the classroom. A student with a cellphone is an uninterested student, one with a short attention span who cares more about his social life than education.
Parents think of cellphones as a connection to their children in an emergency. I have a few questions for those parents: First, when was the last situation that genuinely called for immediate interaction with your child? In most cases, the hospital or the police would seem more urgent. Second, is phoning the main office and having it patch you through to your child not quick enough? And third, do you know why your children really want to take cellphones to school?
Because just like the new Jordans and Rocawear they desire, cellphones are status symbols. Because when their cellphone rings while the teacher is talking, everyone laughs. Because playing video games on their cell makes them look cool. Because text messaging their friend in the next room is more fun than learning about the topic sentence. So is listening to the new Three 6 Mafia song they just downloaded onto their cell.
And saying students can store their phones in the locker is a joke. If they have cellphones, they’re going to bring them into class.
There are legitimate causes that parents should be taking on. Rally against crowding in the classroom. Fight against the oppressive and culturally biased Regents tests. But you’re wrong on this cellphone issue. In this case, you are part of the problem, not the solution.
Jesse Scaccia, a film producer, taught at Franklin D. Roosevelt High School in Brooklyn.
Well, this will be the second time I’ve attempted to respond- so I’ll make it shorter.
You proposed the argument, you should prove that public schools present quality (pretty hard to do with the retention issues, the illiteracy rates, the tendency of many students to text message in classes instead of concentrating on the same laboratory environment you propose as more beneficial-an act I would claim is a definite socialization issue in and of itself).
Simply put, I don’t need to prove that a homeschool environment is quality. I didn’t propose that there was a problem with it (think about this when you wonder why many of the posts are defensive- you’ve put them on it).
You need to prove that the public system can guarantee quality. This is where your primary issues with logical fallacies present themselves- it’s called “arguing the opposite.”
I know there is no mass conspiracy just like you know you don’t have ultimate control over what you teach in your classes. My example was used to prove how illogical both arguments were.
In the end you’ve done an excellent job getting people to respond, but I think that many of the responses on both sides actually help prove my point- quantity doesn’t guarantee quality.
Mark,
I’m not defending the quality of the public school system, or the quality of every public school teacher. My point is that homeschooled children are exposed to a highly limited amount of teachers. Effectively, if their parent(s) end up being bad teachers, that kid is in a fully compromised educational position. The reason you can’t simply flip the argument is based on quantity: the public school student is taught by so many teachers, there is a very small likelihood that all his or her teachers will be stupid/bad influences/careless/ignoring signs of abuse etc. The systems are apples and oranges in this way.
And I don’t need to “prove my side.” That isn’t the point of this, and it never was. All educational systems are flawed, and we should be aware of those flaws and risks and, ideally, be continually fixing them. That’s the point of this blog: practice – > reflection -> revision – > better teaching. For all of us.
Finally, I fully agree that it is not my job to teach my students what to think, religious or otherwise. In my experience, yet, students learn the most from the teachers as humans, rather than teachers as conveyors of subject knowledge. It’s just how it is, and we should be aware of it. And this will happen for better or for worse; that’s why it is critical that young people are exposed to a myriad of teachers/role models, so that, in the end, the positive influences end up outweighing the negative.
Do you not worry that there might be some HSers who are horribly unprepared to be their child’s sole/primary teacher and role model? What do you say about that risk? (Not that this risk warrants a banning of HS, mind you… just curious about your response.)
Jesse,
With the disclaimer that I have zero evidence to back up this proposition, isn’t there a selection bias at work on both sides? It seems to me that public school teaching selects for the least competent, whereas homeschooling [self-]selection favors the most competent.
Some public-school teachers are very good at what they do and are there because they are passionate about teaching. But some — doubtless many — public-school teachers are there because they have safe, taxpayer-funded jobs, protected by a powerful labor union, subject to merit-blind tenure and seniority rules, that carry great health and vacation benefits and allow pensioned retirement at a relatively young age. The merit-blind pay structure of public schools leads to a system that selects for the least-competent teachers. After all, the more competent teachers have more opportunity to find gainful employment elsewhere.
ALL homeschool teachers are there because they want to give their children a better (however they define that term) education than they can get in public school, and, right or wrong, believe themselves capable of providing that better education. With the cost of books and supplies, tuition for supplemental classes and activities, and the opportunity cost of income foregone because the homeschool teacher can’t hold down a job, there is a strong financial disincentive attached to homeschooling. Assuming that these parents are at least rational (undereducated as they may be in some cases), they will not choose to homeschool unless the anticipated benefits outweigh the anticipated costs.
So, in other words, the economic incentives at play necessarily drive teacher quality down at public schools, while the strong disincentives to homeschooling tend to discourage the least-competent parents from starting, or continuing, to homeschool.
Of course this doesn’t completely answer the quality question. But it should count for something that the quality question is considered and answered on a case-by-case basis by the people who have the greatest stake in finding the right answer.
[N.B., While there are certainly brilliant teachers in public school (my next-door neighbor being a stellar example) there are also complete duds. In my public-school run, in one of the wealthiest systems in the country, with some of the top-rated public schools, I would say most of the teachers were in the undistinguished middle, but the duds outnumbered the stars about 3:1. The cliche about how "those who can't, teach" and the stereotype of the lowest-performing students in their disciplines being destined to become teachers persist because they contain a good deal of truth.]
For the record, the above does not include the response I sent Jesse in return. Perhaps he is still pondering his reply?
“The difference is, in this case the parent chooses to make the child an outsider. Whenever a parent makes a choice that places the child in 5% of the population,”
Gee, like scoring above the 95th percentile on their SAT’s? Or how about being in the 5% that manages to graduate high school without trying drugs? Typical public school cattle car thinking – if 95% of the population are idiots, better to be an idiot than stand out.
Given Sturgeon’s Law – 95% of everything is crap, no intelligent parent ever wants their kid to be outside that 5%.
” it is a choice that should not be made lightly. Such a big part of any kid’s happiness is based on if they feel like they fit in or not.”
Only if they’re a public school lemming without an individual identity. You’re citing the exact same thinking that leads kids to smoke, drink, and do drugs – “all the cool kids are doing it.” You’re even more of an idiot than I thought. With every reply you make home schooling look better.
“JS: How do you know? One big problem I’ve had with the HS responses is the assured way they talk about their moral education, lack of racism, etc. etc. How do they know if there aren’t department heads and evaluations and parents of students and colleagues to keep them in check?”
Is this another Twainesque statement? As humans, we can’t tell if someone is racist or moral with out dept. heads, etc? If you’re joking–and I hope you are–this is a truly amusing statement.
>. Whenever a parent makes a choice that places the child in 5% of the population, it is a choice that should not be made lightly. Such a big part of any kid’s happiness is based on if they feel like they fit in or not.
Argh. I keep responding to these because this drives me crazy.
You ARE an adult, right?
Do you obsess over the clothes your friends make and the cars they drive?
What is this need for “sameness?” Why is there such a terror of the difference? (Perhaps I should write the French literary term–dif’erance, or something similar, and interesting portmanteau word with an even more interesting–and apt–meaning).
You’ve been raised by institutions to care what other people think. You have been poorly “socialized” to fear standing out. To those for whom is isn’t a problem, it isn’t a problem!
In reference to your statement that, “There’s no way that one or two parents can educate a child as well as the 7 to 14 trained professionals the child would learn from in MS/HS”….
…you just have no authority to claim that, because there are too many variables to compare between different families, different schools, etc. For instance, during my daughter’s 8th grade year in public school, she had 6 teachers.
One, her Art teacher, was a man who had been reprimanded for sexually harassing his 12 year old female students – but for some reason, was still allowed to teach! (We had my daughter removed from that class when we found out – and how did we find out? He singled my daughter out in an inappropriate way, making her more accessible to him. We had no idea before that time that he had complaints lodged against him by multiple students and their parents for his conduct. We had my daughter removed from that class.
The same year, my daughter’s English teacher couldn’t spell for shit, and I know that personally because I needed to communicate with her concerning a particular assignment through written correspondence (she was too busy to take calls, and hadn’t stepped into the 21st century quite far enough to start using email…), and she made more spelling and grammar mistakes in one note home than my daughter has EVER made at one time in her entire life.
Another teacher she had that same year, was a Math teacher who wouldn’t teach. Seriously. She just wouldn’t get off her fat, lazy ass long enough to actually teach her students the material. Instead, my daughter was given an assignment, and then told to work on it in class, then whatever she couldn’t finish, to take home for homework (this is the extent of the interaction the Math teacher had with the students each day). So, in the end, my daughter learned all the Math that she learned that year by either teaching it to herself, or by having me teach it to her.
Her P.E. teacher that year, had my daughter (and all of the other students) run the mile in 104 degrees (we lived in AZ at the time). 1 kid actually lost consciousness, several kids collapsed (as did my daughter), and about half a dozen vomited (all symptoms of heat exhaustion, which can turn into deadly heat stroke very quickly – especially in kids).
Still on the same year here…her Spanish teacher was far more interested in getting attention from little boys in the throws of puberty, and had no problem with the fact that a lot of students were well aware (because they witnessed things) that she was behaving inappropriately with these kids. Needless to say, my daughter didn’t learn one word of Spanish that year that I didn’t teach her at home.
The ONLY good teacher my daughter had that ENTIRE year, was her History teacher.
This scenario was pretty routine every year through Middle School AND High School for my daughter (she only homeschooled for 7th grade – all other grades were completed at public school).
So, your argument that parents cannot educate a child as well as 7 to 14 “trained professionals” would only hold water if EACH AND EVERY ONE of those so-called “trained professionals” actually got off their asses and did their jobs, and did them in a professional manner.
After 16 years of exposure to public school teachers (across 3 states and 4 districts), the irony we’ve found is that the teachers seem to think they are “above” actually TEACHING (but they sure as hell don’t seem to mind trying to get laid by a 12 year old)!! It’s pathetic.
Jesse Scaccia displays a remarkable lack of tolerance for homeschoolers. Could it be because he is a product of PUBLIC SCHOOLS????? This criticism is so OUTDATED. Scaccia please keep up with the times, homeschoolers are a diverse bunch and there are INCLUSIVE Homeschool Groups.
You can read my response to your criticism here
http://alasandras.blogspot.com/2009/06/case-for-homeschooling.html
I wonder when “geeky” became a bad word? Bill Gates is geeky and re is a billionare. And most teenagers these days might be classified as geeky, considering the electronics they carry around. But tell me, if the world is made up of geeks, how can it be bad? As for homeschooling, I teach my children at home and if teaching them the classics like Shakespeare, the Illead, chemistry and math makes them geeks, so be it. Better than a public school student who think sextexting is cool and can barely read. As for taking your blog to seriously, you really are a uneducated nitwit “not to hate” if you believe that you can attack homeschooling just because you are a public teacher and not offend anyone.
Hey Jesse,
That’s a lot of ignorance in one little blog post. I’m going to assume that, as an English teacher, you advise your students to support their opinions with at least a basic knowledge of the subject matter. I would advise you to do the same.
I’ve addressed your points on my own blog, http://caffeinatedjive.blogspot.com . I also suggest that you find a few other homeschool blogs, like http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com , to get a better idea of what homeschooling really is.
Not sure if my previous comment is going to show up or not…I addressed your “points” on my own blog, caffeinatedjive.blogspot.com and strongly suggest that you seek out more homeschool blogs (such as http://lifewithoutschool.typepad.com ) to get a better understanding of what homeschooling really is.
The article above typifies why I must home-school my child.
J.S. is prejudiced to the point of being unable to actually weigh the pros and cons of homeschooling. Her list reads as a laundry list of these prejudices. She is not even aware that she doesn’t have all the facts. Basically her opinion is fueled and fed by her opinion. External fact or checkable truth doesn’t even take backseat to her rant, its actually completely missing. – All this from a “teacher” who states “My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism)”, ……ad nauseum. What she doesn’t have a good grip of is basic critical thinking. Where did she get any of her information, and why on earth does she believe any of what she is saying, and even better, why should we?
And even if what she said is actually true, every point she has made to discredit homeschooling is exactly the kind of close-minded egotistical nonsense that typifies the kind of intellectual, social and spiritual bullying that I went through in public school. For example, why should anyone sacrifice their child’s education so that other children will be positively influenced by them? Isn’t influence a two way street? My child is not prepared to raise other peoples children. Their parents must raise them.
How about basing your opinion and argument on something other than your own opinion. You shame teachers. I demand greater intellect from anyone teaching my child.
One more point. Your decision to claim that geeks are undesirable is nonsense. Many people, including scientists must spend long hours studying do not have time to socialize for hours and hours they are busy finding cures for diseases, making discoveries to help all mankind, etc… Even if they are just mapping weather, they are a credit to the human race and we need them. Your prejudice towards them is unbecoming in a teacher. Thats why while my child is young and easily influenced I will home-school. If school is not a welcome place for scientific minds, intellectuals and actual thinking, then what is it?
Wow! For someone with “two master’s degrees, etc., etc.” you certainly are uninformed about how colleges and professors feel about homeschoolers. Homeschoolers made the front page of the Chronicle of Higher Education, which as such a celebrated scholar as yourself knows, is distributed to all American professors (usually they’re given free subscriptions as faculty). Here’s a copy maintained by Eric: http://www.eric.ed.gov/ERICWebPortal/custom/portlets/recordDetails/detailmini.jsp?_nfpb=true&_&ERICExtSearch_SearchValue_0=EJ778635&ERICExtSearch_SearchType_0=no&accno=EJ778635
Once you realize how good homeschoolers have it and how effective a means of education it is, perhaps you’d like to join our email group “Educators Who Homeschool” where you’ll find not only many professors, but a startling number of public school K-12 teachers, who know quality education when they see it.
Pingback: Top Posts « WordPress.com
“you think you can teach English as well as me? ”
From a fellow English teacher, please check on usage here. “as well as I”-end of sentence is “can.”
For whatever it’s worth (nothing at this point), I knew what I was doing with that grammar slip. I think that the phrase “as well as I” sounds like how a Tom Collins sipping yacht owner speaks, so I avoid it.
“For whatever it’s worth (nothing at this point), I knew what I was doing with that grammar slip.”
Yeah, sure Jesse, whatever you say.
Keep digging…..
Ha! Y’all can be so cynical and paranoid, I’d bet you think the moon was staring at you right now.
(Jokes)
Pingback: The comments section for “The Case Against Homeschooling” « A Tings Thinking Corner
In one of your comments you say we have buildings specially devoted to learning. Does this mean these buildings are the only places learning can and should take place? Should we stop learning once we leave these buildings? Should we only take the teachings of school with us through life? To hear you talk the practical experiences of life mean nothing, the untraditional methods of education some homeschoolers apply have no value in the real world. My daughter is learning the practical application of reading, math, history, geography, science. It’s not just lessons in a book or notes on a blackboard. She is working almost two grade levels above where the school system says she belongs right now. And those geek comments are really getting on my nerves. My seven year old daughter is at ease in most social situations and can get along with anyone from 9 months to over 90 years old. My husband and I own a sucessful small business as well as pursuing interests in art and music. Both talents which our daughter has inherited. We are also devout Catholics and active in our church. I am a catechist and teaching my daughter about her faith is part of our homeschooling. We are giving her the foundation, it is up to her how she builds on it in the future. I really keep hoping what you have written here is tongue-in-cheek. If this hope is in vain, please try to open up your mind as any good teacher should. We homeschool now because it is right for us, that may change in the future. But for now it is what works.
The stupidity of this article is itself sufficient evidence that public educators themselves supply the most compelling reason to home school your children.
“The Case Against Homeschooling?” As a former trial lawyer, I can tell you that you haven’t made much of a case for anything except continued avoidance of public school! Not a shred of evidence supports any of your contentions.
Homeschoolers are unprepared socially? Bollocks! Just yesterday, a saleslady thanked me for bringing my kids into her shop. “They’re great!” she said. I think they’ll be just fine, thank you very much.
I have two highly gifted kids who cannot be accommodated in public school. They are rather “geeky”, if by that you mean eager-to-learn, passionate people for whom intellectual stimulation is a basic need akin to breathing.
Clearly, if they were in your classroom, they would be made to feel like, well, “geeks” instead of the budding young leaders of tomorrow that they are. They would be forced to learn at a level several grades beneath them so they could be neatly organized by their ages rather than abilities. They would become bored, turned off and tuned out.
I homeschool them so that I can help them to acheive their potential without them dumbing themselves down to fit in with these all-important “peers” with whom they will have little to do in real life.
Someday, when my son is operating on your brain tumour, you’ll be glad he was homeschooled!
“1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.”
How ignorant and wrong can you possibly be? I assume that you believe your own life experience is reasoning and logic enough to make your point. The best part of your argument was reading it and then realizing that I’ll probably home school my children. I certainly don’t want a closed-minded ignoramus like you teaching them. You are just more evidence of what is wrong with the American school system–worthless teachers (of which I had many).
Wow — I thought that school teachers were supposed to be so smart. Well my children are homeschooled because the school system failed them.
I have one question. The point you can not be swayed on was that one or two parents couldn’t possibly teach as well as a bunch of experts. If that is true, then why do the homeschoolers consistently score higher than public school kids? Doesn’t that prove that they have been taught BETTER?!?! The proof is in the pudding.
Heather,
The test scores might be higher, but a good education involves multiple perspectives on the same subject/topic. Almost everything is subjective, right, so a kid needs intellectually/morally diverse teachers to hear the diverse sides/understand the whole issue. HSers do miss out on that, you have to admit.
“The test scores might be higher, but a good education involves multiple perspectives on the same subject/topic. Almost everything is subjective, right, so a kid needs intellectually/morally diverse teachers to hear the diverse sides/understand the whole issue. HSers do miss out on that, you have to admit.”
Wouldn’t test scores of children who only understand one perspective be lower? Their understanding of issues tested would be limited, right?
Morally diverse? If I heard you say that I might say “Did you mean to say that out loud?” Don’t most public school teachers have a morals clause in their contract?
Why would you think a couple of teachers living in the same area who are in the same profession and working in the same building will give my child the diversity to understand the whole issue? I’ve lived in 3 countries and the perspectives of those in the USA are very different from those in other countries for example. Much more diversity is found in the real world.
Amy,
Come now. Most PSers have six or seven teachers a term, and dozens (if not hundreds) of classmates. You can’t discount the value of that.
Again the pool of perspectives is limited to a group of people who all live in the same area and are in the same building everyday. This is assuming we are talking about high school here. And this assumes that the child will hear the perspectives of all his classmates.
I want my children to have a world view so I do not see how the perspectives of people who go to a public school down the street is valuable. A perspective of someone living in the US is not enough in my opinion. I want my children to be students of the world. Just look at the newscasts in the US verses another country. Wow, they are so different! The US barely covers what goes on the world and other countries (in my experience) report on countries around the world for most of the broadcast.
So, in short, I do not see it as valuable. My child could get more perspectives by reading books from 100 different authors from all over the world. And in the world of today even a child locked up in his house can discuss topics with others around the world.
Also, I believe most home schooling families have just as many perspectives as your described with home school groups, community classes, etc.
Great point Amy.
My younger daughter has friends all over the world and she met them all in the comfort of her own dining room. She has been chatting with people far far away since she was 16. She is 21 now and has a great understanding of the diversity of our world. Her current pet project is exchanging postcards with people around the world through Postcrossing (can search for it by that name on Google if you are interested.)
My son was with the same 40 honor students and often the same teachers as he had the year before. I don’t actually have any objection to that, except when the teachers are not held to basic standards and are not doing their jobs. Some of his teachers were excellent. They were the school’s best. Some were horrible. Others were mediocre. I tried to get him in with the best teachers, and usually did, but that wasn’t possible in all cases. Some teachers behaved inappropriately and violated regulations in ways that harmed the children. The principal refused to intervene effectively and seemed to resent when asked to do so. One teacher ran around with his shirt swinging over his head on a dare from a student. Others never gave back graded homework and didn’t give grades for three weeks at a time. The homework was not from the book, and students didn’t know what to correct. There was so much of it that reportedly most of the students cheated by copying from an expert or dividing the homework and copying from each other. The teacher was told, but she denied it though it happened in front of her in her classroom. The principal claimed she was a senior teacher and therefore could not be disciplined. Another teacher was abusing prescription drugs. I notified the principal of a problem with her not teaching and not understanding the material. It went on almost all year and they had to cancel the IB test due to the students not knowing the material. But, they gave credit for the class and no apologies, just late term catch up sessions that were too little, too late. An English teacher said she was concerned my son may have a learning problem with his writing. Having a masters degree in English, I knew that was not the case. Turns out, she had never had him write anything but took a practice test score which reflected that he used an alternate subject and didn’t get credit because the subject demanded was too personal. On the real state test, my son scored the highest possible score category, writing on the subject “Why State Tests Do Not Enhance Education.” These were some of the problems we experienced even in the “honors” classes in public school.
I am not against public school. We need it for those who cannot get a better education otherwise, and that’s most people. But, even I, as a single parent, found a way to educate my child appropriately, despite a great deal of negative behavior against me for doing so. Ironically, when my son was younger and very busy, people would say to him, “You’re lucky to have a mom like that.” They so how busy I was with him. After he became a calm adolescent, I place him in public school, which did not challenge him but allowed me to get cancer treatment. Seeing how well he performed and how polite and funny he was, public school employees said to me, “You’re lucky to have a son like that.” I said, “Luck had nothing to do with it. It was blood, sweat and tears.” And it was.
You see, homeschoolers pay for other kids to go to public school. And, they pay for their own kids’ educational expenses, not only in materials and fees for any outside activities and classes, but also in a huge amount of lost income and future career opportunities when they shut down their careers so their kids can be well educated. And, they keep paying for other kids to go to school. I’ve paid thousands of dollars, year after year, for the schools close to my house, but those schools refused to allow my son to go into gifted classes, and even attempted, when I complained, to get me investigated for child abuse. Well, that fell flat instantly and CPS was put off by the false claim. Homeschoolers are anything but selfish.
Homeschoolers endure the ignorant, intolerant rants, jabs, and accusations of bullies who in fact may have learned to bully in their own public school education. Those college students who may tease homeschoolers were apparently publicly educated–like Lord of the Flies, without adequate supervision and character education. Why would that be an argument FOR public education.
Mind you, I believe that their are lots of great teachers in public school, lots of great administrators and lots of great kids that come out of public school. But, public education is troubled at best in our country, and anyone who works in public education really knows that. Further, most parents would not bother to homeschool or would not feel confident or committed enough to do it. Some could not. Having worked as a juvenile probation officer, I can tell you that there are students who are better off in public school than at home as most of the kids I dealt with had parents who had serious problems, though not all. But, to paint all parents with that brush as though being a parent makes you uneducated, unable to educate a child, and somehow suspect, is ignorant and arrogant.
Today, I frequently am complimented for how well I’ve raised my child. It is only public school employees, and only the school administrators at that and the teachers that are the type to take liberties with regulations, who don’t give me credit and instead are angry that I withdrew my son to homeschool him again, who say otherwise. They have no knowledge of how my son was educated before he was in public school and do not realize that he heavily supplemented his school texts with college texts to get the scores he earned.
There are good, talented people teaching in public schools. And, there are unethical, untalented people teaching in public schools–and everything in between. There are good parents and bad parents and everything in between. We need to look at each child and give him or her the best education that can be put together for that child. And, we need to respect the authority and rights of the people who generally have the very best knowledge of the child’s needs and the best interests of the child at heart–not the school districts’ interests–the parents. And, we need to respect statistics, people.
Our state education association is ignorant of the realities of homeschooling, counseling me that Ivy League schools would not want my son. Yet, he has been contacted by nearly every Ivy League and top national university so far as I can tell. The contact info for homeschooling associations given to me by the state education association was badly out of date. I would suggest that they educate themselves about the full range of education going on in the state and support those forms in the most effective way possible, by employing people who have experience with those forms.
{Susan
June 2, 2009 at 2:44 pm
Thanks for my laugh of the day. You simply can’t be serious with this top ten list. I laughed so hard I spilled the Fruit Loops and dropped the meatloaf.
Reply }
IMHO, the best so far!!
I think that there is a common misconception that homeschooled kids are isolated. What homeschooling has meant for many of my peers is that they use the resources in the community and bypass the unnecesarry beurocracy of public school. This is not isolation, it is freeing.
Just as there are many different types of learning styles like you pointed out, there are many different educational environments as well. I think it should be up to the student to choose the place where they learn best.
I was surprised to notice that you didn’t focus much on the student, but on their parents. Students can’t help who their parents are. An education is about the student, and as a teacher I would think that you would be concerned with helping the students learn the best that they can. Some may not learn the best in a traditional school, but it doesn’t help anyone to stigmatize and insult other groups.
Thanks for giving me such a good laugh today! I really enjoyed your article, surely it’s meant to be funny because someone with two Master’s degrees must have better logic and analysis skills than were displayed here. Of course, I am a graduate of public schools and was quite “geeky” as a student (and probably still am). High intelligence tends to make individuals a bit different from the other 95% of the kids their age. Perhaps you were blessed with a more mediocre degree of talent and fit in better with the crowd than my friends and I did. There are so many points I could refute within your article (and I really, really want to) but the 500+ comments ahead of this one have already covered the many uneducated assumptions you expressed. Truly, thanks for lifting my mood this evening!
Wow….and I’m supposed to send my kids to school with someone like this? I don’t think so.
I find it interesting though that the author could write such diatribe and publish, apparently without ever even attempting to see if her opinions were based on any legitimate studies or research.
For instance, I noticed that in her first point, she said that some kids,”bullies” who were apparently public educated, decide to call other college aged kids names. She then used this as “evidence” that homeschooling is bad.
I also noticed that these same bullies would call ANY child “homeschooled”. Apparently, going to a public or private school did not help these kids “fit in” one bit better.
Interesting.
And since we’re talking “socializing”, WHY HAS the public schools failed so miserably at teaching proper socialization? Why are there so many teens pregnant, kids on drugs, and just plain hateful kids? If the public schools were so very good at teaching kids to socialize, can you explain why Columbine High happened…and the many other school shootings?
And by the way, right here in Atlanta a school teacher was just convicted for horribly abusing her non-verbal autistic child. The parents found out how their son was getting his bruises by sewing a tape recorder into his shirt so they could hear what was happening. And you are telling me that I’M selfish for not sending my kid into that?
Why was I, a pubic school educated child, so bullied and treated so cruelly in the public schools I attended? Is THAT the socialization that you want MY children to go through. And you are telling me that I’M selfish for not sending my kid into that?
I find it interesting that someone would tell me, that mothering my children in my home is selfish and YET think it’s perfectly UNselfish to expect my children’s well-being to be sacrificied by sending them to a school that cannot educate my child as well, love my child or teach my child about Christ. A place that they are not even allowed to pray at.
Then there’s the point you made about it “pissing” you off that we homeschool. Well, there’s a great reason to send my kids to a public school. It makes the teacher angry that I make her look bad.
My two oldest children scored in the 90% and 85% on their standarized testing. I have 7 kids. I have a whole classroom of overachievers. Does this make you angry. It shouldn’t. If you care to respond, I can teach you a few things that will probably help you do a better job of teaching your kids in your classroom.
I don’t even know if I should respond to the whole must-be-wealthy-to-home-school idea. This is utterly ridiculous, and if you had done ANY research at all you’d see that not only does the families income NOT effect their success at home schooling, but neither does their education level. Apparently, just about anyone who can read can do a better job at educating their children than a “certified” teacher. Even if that teacher has multiple degrees. But for the record, our family makes a middle class income of 60k a year. With as many children as I have, that is not considered a lot…and yet, I still have smart, well adjusted children.
Oh yeah. I AM a multi-cultural family. Three of my children are Hispanic, and four of my children are caucasion and since I am a foster family (there’s a sign of my selfishness as we speak) I frequently have black children in my home as well. Racism? My kids had never even heard the word “nigger” until we were at the park and some PUBLIC SCHOOLED kids kept calling each other that, and got into a fight.
Basically, every so called point you made is easily refutable with research and littered with bad logic. However, I know I can’t expect much better from you. You are a public school teacher.
One other thing….
I think it’s completely selfish for people to NOT home school their children.
Our society would be so much better off if our kids were better educated.
So why are the parents of public schooled children so selfish?
Could it be that they are are just lazy because they don’t want to do the work that it requires to homeschool their kids?
Could it be that they would rather risk their children being molested, abused or bullied because it’s just easier than homeschooling?
Why are YOU so selfish that you want homeschooled kids to attend a school where they will be ridiculed, possibly sexually molested, exposed to drugs, premarital sex, etc.?
Is it because you are worried that maybe you won’t have a job if parents decided to make this selfless decision to educate their kids themselves?
Are you going to answer my question? Does the fact that HS students rank higher statistically not prove that one or two parents CAN AND DO educate not as well, but better than all you combined ”professionalls”? Isn’t that the one point you can’t be swayed on? Doesn’t the evidence speak clearly enough?
Heather,
Yes, HSing can provide a good education. But there’s more to learning and becoming a well-rounded, empathetic adult than test scores.
Do you see no value to having multiple teachers every year, and multiple teachers teaching the same subject over the years?
I really think you have a warped view of what home schooling is. Students do not sit around a table as their parent whacks a home made chalkboard with a yardstick. For HSers, the world is their classroom. They spend time with other adults in a myriad of settings, including learning situations. They learn from docents at the zoo, botanists at the city garden, other parents at the co-op, even other family members; if they happen to be religious, they also learn from religious leaders.
Home schooling may have its flaws (as does everything), but this is not one of them.
>But there’s more to learning and becoming a well-rounded, empathetic adult than test scores.
Yes, indeed, there is. And I would say, the public school system is NOT a great place for learning empathy. Certainly, I didn’t see any emphasis on that when I was growing up, and I saw a deterioration of that when my son was in school. Kids were told not to tattle, to work it out, despite the fact that someone was being hurt. No empathy, no compassion.
When I first started homeschooling my son, he was 10.5 years old. The main reason was academics. A friend said, “There’s more to school than academics, you know!” Yes, I know — and I worked darned hard to fill those other needs of his.
Years later, I wrote an article for our local homeschool newsletter, More Than Academics, after getting responses for non-academic reasons or benefits others had found to homeschooling. It was astonishing how many benefits there were — and how much easier it was for people to raise well-rounded, empathic, compassionate humans in the homeschool environment.
No, I see absolutely no value in having multiple teachers every year teaching the same subject. My children can learn from every person they encounter and every experience they have, and being home schooled means they have more encounters and experiences. They can be exposed to a limited number of “multiple teachers” or I can expose them to the limitless number of people they will meet outside of a classroom.
You wrote, “So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?”
That should be, “as well as *I*,” so, yes, I can teach English as well as you (even better than, apparently).
Obviously, you are misinformed about homeschoolers, unaware of the countless examples of brilliance from the homeschooling community and ignorant in general.
I am sorry for you, and I am sorrier for your students.
I think the biggest issue here whether or not the tone of the article was meant to be as blatant as it appeared is that it spreads prejudice against homeschooling. This was not written to homeschoolers or those related to homeschooling. Even satire can spread negative opinions that are not based on facts.
From Dictionary.com
prej⋅u⋅dice [prej-uh-dis] noun, verb, -diced, -dic⋅ing.
–noun
1. an unfavorable opinion or feeling formed beforehand or without knowledge, thought, or reason.
2. any preconceived opinion or feeling, either favorable or unfavorable.
3. unreasonable feelings, opinions, or attitudes, esp. of a hostile nature, regarding a racial, religious, or national group.
4. such attitudes considered collectively: The war against prejudice is never-ending.
5. damage or injury; detriment: a law that operated to the prejudice of the majority.
–verb (used with object)
6. to affect with a prejudice, either favorable or unfavorable: His honesty and sincerity prejudiced us in his favor.
Thank you for the laugh! This was an hysterically funny way to start the day.
(P.S., may I offer a tip? Anyone wanting to toot their own horn as an English teacher probably ought to do so using a grammatical sentence.)
Wow. I’m going to take a wild guess that you were one of those “popular” “cheerleader” or “jock” type kids in high school who liked to make fun of and name call the weird. socially awkward, geeky band
nerd kids like myself. I certainly hope you don’t call names in your classroom – surely there are one or two “weird” and “geeky” kids in a public school classroom, right? I was always one of them, but as an adult I learned to value those qualities.
So glad my children are growing up in an environment where their unique, quirky qualities are valued and not dismissed.
Oh yeah, and we homeschool as an atheist, liberal, and working class family. Wow, we just don’t fit those handy stereotypes in your head at all. do we?
Hey Julie – Maybe we can start our own stereotype – non-religious, liberal, working class homeschoolers. In my experience we are the majority anyway, so why hasn’t the stereotype caught up?
I too am from a weird geeky family. It’s odd that this came up just now because just the other day my mother and I were talking about always feeling like we didn’t fit in with the people around us. We both went to schools and both felt isolated by that experience. We both have noticed how much more positive my children’s self-images are because they were allowed to be themselves as they grew up.
So Jesse, let me ask you – what would you do to protect my son in your classroom? He is a diagnosed Aspie and he will always be a target for bullying. How would you have dealt with him in 2nd and 3rd grades when he was not reading?
It occurred to me as I have been reading all the blog chatter and debates on homeschooling this past week that what we really have here is a disconnect on what an education really is. I have 3 teens in public school, and I have 2 children under 3 who will be homeschooled. If we knew that homeschool was a viable option 10 years ago, we would have homeschooled them all. Well, actually, we knew it was an option but were unaware of how the options and opportunities have expanded in recent years. But I digress…
If you’re interested, I took the time over on my blog to discuss what an education is, or at least what it should be compared to what we have lowered our expectations and accepted as education. If you’re truly interested in educating kids, I think it’s worth a look for you because although I know there are limits for a classroom teacher, maybe you could find ways to incorporate ALL aspects of learning and education into your curriculum in some small way.
http://terrysoapbox.blogspot.com/2009/06/real-vs-pseudo-education.html
I think you are spot on with #8 and #3, and I have repeatedly affirmed this myself.
As you suggest in #8, US public schools make up a great social welfare system and such a system naturally requires the forced participation of the wealthiest and best educated parents. However, this contradicts the logic of #6, in which you are supposedly highly trained to impart knowledge rather than simply provide high-priced daycare for overworked, illiterate, and inattentive parents. I think in future you should stick with the social welfare/daycare angle to promote public schools, since anyone with a college degree knows that education and journalism majors are statistically on the bottom of the intellectual hierarchy.
Your argument in #3 is really the strongest argument for why public schools are necessary. In most regions of the US, people pay much more than $6,000 per year for high quality daily socialization, and they often have to pay greens fees on top of that. Yet, here you are able to provide all children with 6-8 hours per day of country club life for a bargain price! Fortunately, this emphasis on socialization means you do not have to actually “teach” for more than a few minutes per day, and you can really make a difference in the live of over-intellectualized geeks. I do worry, however, that holding final exams in nightclubs may be a little too intense for some.
Best wishes for your public daycare service!
“Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf…”
Now, that’s not old-fashioned. Children have done most of their learning at home for most of humankind’s history. I think the right word for it is… ‘stupid.’
Hi Jesse,
A homeschooling dad here; responding to your article, The Case Against Homeschooling, on TeacherRevised.org.
I initially had responses to your first few reasons that you’re against homeschooling, but as I read further it became clear that a point by point refutation was inappropriate.
Your writing was obviously a quick, slapdash affair- so I’ll just hit the high points (and quit worrying about grammar punctuation and spelling, too).
You really a teacher? Honestly? In the industry in which I work- a person who writes something on the order of “….. really pisses me off” about some aspect of their profession gets sidelined as a kid who isn’t ready or fit for any more responsibility in the workplace. You really may want to rethink your approach.
As an agnostic, you might want to take some care in trotting out a few lines of scripture and building a house out of it. I know, it can be fun to taunt the Christians and Jews that way- but it’s really a sophomoric trick to try to make points in that fashion. If you want a few laughs with some of your agnostic buddies at the coffee house, that’s great- but to try making a serious point— well, maybe not the device you’d want to use.
I’m going to guess that you don’t have any kids of your own yet by the reasoning you’re showing in your writing, I can sympathize- I was there once, too. As a parent, what are your most important responsibilities to your children going to be? Here’s what works for me- yes your answer may be different:
- keep them safe from harm
- raise them in such a way that they are best fitted out to live in this world as their own person once they are grown
My approach to education flows from those basic, daily goals. For instance, your points 8,7,4 and 2 presuppose that my kids need daily, unsupervised immersion in the wider world of their peers by age for 6 hours- both as a learning device and as a leaven to help less fortunate kids. Ah, I wouldn’t be doing my job (see above) if I put them in that environment. They, as minors to be protected and educated, have NO responsibility to educate or model for their age-group peers- regardless of whether that makes your job harder or easier. Now, do I as an adult have some of those responsibilities as a member of society- you might make a good case for that- but saying a minor has responsibility like that- Uh, no– and if you look at your state and federal constitutions- they pretty much back my position, not the one you took.
Point 6- how great that is!!! Yep, we used to over-engineer things so that we were sure they would work every time and forever– and there are still model T cars with original parts on the road– hey, it works! Primary and secondary school coursework- do people need a specialist with a masters in the particular subject to teach every course, or any course? Looks like a bit of over-engineering to me. Now, don’t get me wrong, great union bargaining tactic- but don’t expect the mark on the other side of the negotiating table to fall for that one. Deming and the folks at Bell labs made hash out of that position in the 1930s, just saying…
And if all other argumentation fails, remember, never trust anyone under 30 with your kid! In fact, just never trust anyone under 30!
If you got this far, thanks for reading my response!!
I love reading stuff like this. It’s so wrong, on so many levels, its funny. It’s like the kind of thing that you take to a party or something.
Sadly, it gives a very bad image of your skills at writing a factual report. First of all, I’m a homeschooler, and I take pride in not being “geeky.” In my opinion, teacher’s shouldn’t even use that term. It infers that the teacher is biased in the favor of the sports “jocks” in the public school system, and that the teachers in question are not willing to give the hardworking students a chance to show their skills, which, frankly, will most likely have a more positive effect on the world anyway. Secondly, this heavily biased article proves that the little research you’ve done has either been falsified, or you’ve twisted it to better benefit your already maladjusted and incorrect view of a huge community.
Third, you were talking about the possibility of racism cultivating itself in a homeschool environment. But what is racism? In its most literal form, it is discrimination against a class or group of people. Sounds a lot like your view of homeschoolers, doesn’t it?
The “facts” in this blog are little more than the biased opinions of a biased schoolteacher. Therefore, it is little more than sludge, in the literary sense, and should be taken with a smile by homeschoolers, because it carries no meaning whatsoever.
evilhomeschoolbunny
P.S.: Shouldn’t you be grading papers, or something worthwhile?
“HSers are not our regular readers, and they are not used to this kind of voice.”
Oh, I think you are quite mistaken. Homeschoolers hear this whiny, self-righteous voice all the time from three-year-olds.
“If I had a chance to re-write it knowing that this would be the audience, the piece would have been very, very different.”
If you knew that parents had a choice to not have someone like you as their child’s teacher, perhaps you would respect them more. Oh, wait . . . they do have a choice. As do you, in expressing your bigotry and ignorance.
Since when does your being pissed off about something make it a poor parenting choice? Honestly, wouldn’t you raise your eyebrows a bit if I said I homeschooled because public schools piss me off? That’s a very poor argument.
I’m a homeschool graduate, and I did just fine in college, academically and socially, I did just fine in the workplace, I interact with my neighbors very normally, and I even interact nicely with people on the web.
And ditto for my three homeschooled siblings.
I’ve even managed to hold my English together well enough to write a fairly popular blog.
Amazing, isn’t it?
In case you’re interested, my husband, who went to public school his whole life, is even more vehemently opposed to sending our children to public school than I am. I got a better education than he did, and I’m more well-rounded socially (he would say the same), and he wants that for our children.
This is a joke? Right?
Wow. I haven’t had time to read the comments, but I’ll just throw my 2 cents worth in here knowing something like it has probably already been said.
I used to teach in the public school system before I had children of my own. Our school fired a teacher who had been sexually molesting students for at LEAST 10 years. I know this because he was doing it when I was a student at the same school I taught in. All the kids knew about it, the parents knew about it, the other teachers had heard the “rumors” but there was no evidence until the point when he was fired. The file of “accusations” on him was several inches thick. I know because I was assigned the duty of copying the entire thing for legal purposes.
When I was in 5th and 6th grade, my band teacher molested every little girl who got close to him, including me. He put his hands all over us and no one ever did anything about it, except to tell us not to stand near him, until he took over the high school band (I was in college by then) and he finally got a high school student pregnant. Then he was fired, but he moved and got a job at another school (I think it was a college though).
On top of that, we had a stabbing happen in our little, tiny, quiet town school when I was a junior. One kid got mad at another kid for taking his usual seat in math class so he pulled a knife and ripped the other guys back open with it. Top to bottom. I was standing in the hall when the teacher came running through with his bloody hands holding this gasping kid’s back together and yelling for someone to call the ambulance.
I worked in the school office my first year out of college (before a teaching position came open for me) and experienced instance after instance where kids got in trouble for having narcotics at school. The next year, my own students told me about all the times they got high sitting in the parking lot before school. I coached the varsity cheerleaders and had instances of girls toppling off stunts and passing out in the floor because they were stoned.
Not to mention all the nasty songs, phrases and cliches I picked up – things that still run through my brain sometimes for no good reason. Some one can say “boy, it’s cold outside” and a nasty little rhyme about how cold it is pops into my head. I heard it in the lunch line one day. Its not that I can’t deal with these things. I’m perfectly fine. It’s just that they don’t need to be a part of a good education. And it’s not to say that my children won’t pick those kind of things up from the public school kids they play with. They already have, just not to the degree I did because I can go next door and talk to the kid’s mom about what he just told my 6 year old. Then the mom deals with it and the kid stops teaching my kids nasty phrases and rhymes for fear of the trouble he will get into when I find out about it, which I always do.
On the education front, I have 5 children so far. Not ONE of them learns in the same way as the others. For example, I am able to sit with my 6 year old (kinesthetic learner) and tailor his reading assignment to his learning style, while my 11 year old (auditory learner) gets curriculum that is geared to his learning style. They thrive. When my kids are interested in something – say ancient Egypt- it doesn’t have to wait until the unit on Egypt comes up, we can tackle it while their interest is hot. They retain.
I HATED history in school, but homeschooling has forced me to study it so that I can teach my children. Lo and behold, I suddenly find that history is beyond facinating and that the reason I hated it so much is because it was taught as a series of dates to be memorized, not as an amazing story. We study to teach our children and in the process, hubby and I have become more learned ourselves. Then we can enthusiastically discuss history at the dinner table with our children who pick up our enthusiasm and learn history themselves. I, who hated history, now have small children who can discuss early American history with adults, and probably put many of them to shame. They know more than dates, they understand the how’s and why’s.
I could just write a book here, but suffice to say that your post is a tiny bit laughable in it’s bias and misinformation. The reason we are highly capable of doing a better job of teaching our children than those with big degrees because we live education. And we do it in the same place where we eat meat loaf- but not fruit loops, eww- do our laundry, mow our grass, make our beds, play our games, sweep our floors and hang out. We also live education at the park, at the campground, at Starbucks on individual kid “date” nights and in the car.
And BTW, I know of plenty of people with more melanin in their skin than me who homeschool. It’s not even close to being a racist thing. In fact, many homeschoolers (including us) teach their children that there is only one race, the human race, and that we are all different shades of brown.
I hope you have gotten a little peek into the real lives and reasoning of those of us who have chosen homeschooling through the comments here. Homeschooling is really not what you think:).
Tonya, I just wanted to pipe in on the point you make about history. My experience was similar, except that we almost never, in my public schools, studied it before junior high. Until high school, we never learned anything except year after year of the pilgrims. That petered out by October, when the teacher moved on to something other than history.
In high school, I finally had a history class my junior year, taught by a man who smelled perpetually of marijuana and let us write our own grades in the grade book. One day I asked him if he even cared. He said “Oh, I used to care about teaching, and students, and all that crap, but I grew up. I’ve got four years till retirement.” So the only history I got in public school was one year from a book without a teacher. The book had content in only every third sentence. “As we have seen in chapter six,…” “As we will see in chapter seventeen,…”
One of the big advantages to homeschooling is that we are not under a contract with an academic publisher to purchase their books whether or not they are any good.
Wow Tonya,
Did we go to through the same school system? We had nasty pervert teachers and a ridiculously thin History program too.
I still slip into a coma every time I hear the word “Pilgrim”, and some things are just too disgusting to remember, even 30+ years later. No teen wants to be pawed and groped by a 55 YO fat, balding pervert.
“So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me.”
The sentence should say, “…you think you can teach English as well as I.” (not me)
And you call yourself an English teacher? You can’t even use correct grammmar!
Your article is riddled with ad hominem arguments, fallacious reasoning and slang. I dislike slang.
Lol…..Jessie,
I’m a home shcooling mother!! No, I don’t see the value of multiple teachers teaching the same subjects over and over. OK..you do. I went to ps and I just still don’t see the value of it. I went to a good school and had great teachers and I can honestly say I believe my child is getting a better, more well-rounded education than I did. I’m not sure if you know this. But different kinds of cirriculum teach the same subjects in different ways. It’s so easy to give your child diversity with all these wonderful tools so easily accessible.
=)
I’d like to start by saying I think teachers are underpaid and rarely appreciated (even when they do a phenomenal job). I believe that most teachers do the very best they can with very limited resources and numerous constraints (including, but not limited to, No Child Left Behind and the various forms of standardized testing). I can understand how a teacher, who is doing his/her personal best to make a difference in the world by enlightening young minds can take offense at homeschooling. Interestingly, I now know many former public/private school teachers who are homeschool because they decided that the schools just weren’t good enough to educate their own children, once they had them.
When all is said and done, we all just want what’s best for our children. Homeschooling is a very personal decision and it isn’t one to be taken lightly. Every homeschooling family I have met (and it’s been quite a few, since we pulled our children out of school and joined the ranks) took that decision very seriously; ourselves included.
The public school just wasn’t working for our children. We live in the best district in the state and they didn’t know what to do with our kids. What do I mean by that? Well, I had taught each to read before starting kindergarten, so imagine the teacher’s surprise when child #1 was reading classic literature on her own at the age of 5. Our elementary schools are grades K-4 here; there was literally no place for her to go for “reading time” unless we wanted her bussed over to the intermediate school for two hours per day. That’s only one example, however. Our second child was bored in math, so we supplemented that at home. By the time first grade hit, she was working at a 3rd grade level in math. The teacher actually told me to stop supplementing at home because she was “too far ahead” already. We weren’t rushing her; she actually worked at her own pace. We have 2 more children in very similar situations. After many long talks with the teachers and principal at our school, we finally decided to pull them out to school at home. If we had been financially able, we might have enrolled in a private school first; but now that we are 3 years down the road on our homeschooling journey, I am confident we made the right decision for our girls.
Believe me, it isn’t a decision we made lightly. I have lost many a night’s sleep to researching curriculum and worrying about the future–after all, that burden lies squarely on our shoulders now. If my child is sent off to college unprepared, I don’t have anyone to blame but myself. So every single day, I have that thought in the back of my mind. No one could care more about my children’s educations than myself. No one. Not even a paid professional, such as yourself.
If you recall, I said that teachers are underpaid and rarely appreciated. I believe for homeschool parents, that goes double. I don’t get days off when I’m under the weather–there’s no sub waiting in the wings to take over my job while I get over the stomach flu. My kids have days where all they want to do is test their boundaries and my job starts at 6:30am when the my eldest wakes and stops at 9:15pm when they are all finally in bed. I evaluate their work, I plan for the next day, and I figure out assignments for each child (I am leaving out all the planning of social outings and classes because we’d be here all day otherwise!), and all of this on top of my “normal mom” duties.
Please excuse me if I don’t care that you’re “pissed off” because I have chosen to homeschool my children. See, the operative word there is “my”: as in my children, my responsibility.
One last thought: I actually laughed out loud when you called homeschooling selfish. See, I had my post-preK life planned out quite nicely. I was going to go back to school for a master’s, maybe going back to work part time so that we could possibly get ahead financially again, and as much as I absolutely adore my children, I did look forward to a little bit of “me” time once all the children were in school. Needless to say, my plans have been put off for a while. In my opinion, “selfish” would be forcing my children to stay in public school and stagnate. Would you not agree?
As a 70 year old retired public school teacher with a couple of degrees, who has also taught at the college level, I would like to throw in my two cents. My three children all went through the public school system, one now has a Ph.D and teaches in a university. But all three suffered in one way or another through those years in ps. My youngest is now deceased and I have spent the last 9 years raising his son and homeschooling him. He has been diagnosed with mild Asperger’s Syndrome and while very bright, still has special needs that I felt the public system was not prepared to deal with properly. Therefore, I chose to homeschool him. I did this for the very “selfish” reason that I wanted him to receive an education specially designed for his personal needs and abilities. He is not a tool of society or the government to be used to meet the needs of others. He is a little boy who has his own needs and desires.
I must tell you that my degrees and teaching experience did not prepare me for this nearly so well as the support and suggestions of other homeschooling moms and dads, especially those on my favorite homeschool support group e-mail lists. I really had to start over learning the best way to meet his needs. My philosophy and approach to teaching have changed radically. Is it easy? No! Do I make mistakes? Of course! But we have never looked back since he finished public preschool and we started homeschooling.
“Social skills” is a particular problem area for children on the Autism spectrum, but he gets along fine with his age group and other age groups. He still cannot stand up and talk about his project at his 4-H group meetings (with kids who go to ps), but he can interact with them and play games with them, even though they are all older. He volunteers with his 4-H group at the local cat shelter and attends classes and activities at local museums with some of his homeschooled friends.
Academically, he is well above “grade level” in some areas and below in others, but although this is largely due to his special needs and special abilities, it is also true of many children in public school.
I deliberately chose not to respond point by point to this poorly thought out and bitterly presented blog, because 1) others have done it so well, and 2) it really isn’t worth the effort. By the way, I am a liberal atheist.
Whew. I don’t think that I truly have the energy to respond to all of this, but I’ll try.
I do understand socializing and socialization. My child receives both. What he does not receive is the brutal mob mentality socialization of children who create a hierarchy unto themselves, thankfully. He will not beaten, teased, or micked for his tastes and choices until he is secure in himself.
Are you truly stating that schools have a large racial and social broadness that being homeschooled will deny? Honestly, variety and tolerance is one reason I DO homeschool. My children see more color and variety walk through my doors then ever they would at our local school, which is fairly one-sided.
Please remember, that NON-religious persons, or those homeschooling for reasons OTHER than religion, are the fastest growing sector of homeschooling. Some of us are agnostics and atheists and muslims and witches too, oh my!
At our “groups” for homeschooling, these are the people we mingle with.
Are we selfish for wanting what is best for our kids? Honestly, your argument seems silly. If the “smarter” kids are removed as you say, does this not open up resources for teachers who are overburdened with budgetary cuts, and overcrowded classes? Can the teacher not focus MORE on those children who truly need more help, and get them to shine just as brightly?
Honestly, teachers have always been some of my best supporters, and many have told me they would/will homeschool their own, due to the same ideals and issues!
I do tip my hat to teachers. You do a noble job, and one I am sure I could not handle. Your job encompasses crowd control, bathroom patrol, supplies, law enforcement, drug enforcement, sexual harassment policing, medical watch, etc, etc, etc.
Amidst this, in a possibly decaying building with litlle light, fresh air, or equipment, you are expected to teach a large amount of children. These children might not have eaten that day, they may be on medication that affects their behavior, excesses of sugar or caffeine that affects their behavior, or problems at home.
So yes, I agree that you need specialized training on these issues, and degrees on how to teach at super-effective levels (just to hopefully get through to the kids who are together enough to learn).
Luckily, I don’t need to do that. I teach two. I have all the resources, equipment, and light I need. My children are well-rested, well-fed. They trust their teacher and feel safe. They have a private piano lesson (since our budget for art and music has not been cut). They paint to the sounds of Mozart.. they read “just one more chapter” of Tom Sawyer, because we go at their pace, instead of listening to a bell. My son, at 6, can read at a level above that, and doesn’t need to wait for others to “catch up”…he can continue math, (which he adores), for hours, at a level 4 grades above his “school” grade.
Luckily, we don’t have socialization to worry about. No one has drummed into my children that learning is “hard” or “geeky”. No one has told my son that he can’t cry or dance or sing because of some sense of over zealous masculinity.
No one has called my daughter names, or told her she was not pretty enough.
Their innocence is intact. That’s fine. They can experience the brutal socialization later, when they are old enough and secure enough in themselves, to know that words from others are not nearly as important as what you know about yourself inside.
It’s really late, but I just want to take a minute to thank all my fellow homeschoolers for the reminders of why we educate our children at home. I know that there are many dedicated educators in the public schools, but I highly doubt that any of them would be willing to sit with my learning disabled child for several hours a day, patiently teaching him to read, write and do math. And I know I would be very hard-pressed to find anyone who would do it without pay! Why am I willing to do it? Because I love him, and I want the very best for him. If that is selfish, so be it.
And to dear Jesse, I would like to say…. When my children say something mean to another child, and they are confronted about it, they are not able to get excused by saying “I was just kidding” or “I didn’t mean it”, or “I didn’t think anyone would hear it”. No…my children have been taught to say “I’m sorry. I was wrong.”. Actually, that is one of the main ideas of our Christian faith, admitting to God and to our neighbors that we are wrong, and to ask for forgiveness. It is a humbling thing to do, but you might want to consider it.
Mrs. Scaccia,
I’d like to comment on your article, but first, here’s a bit of background you may find useful. Much of my commentary will be phrased in light of my own experience as a homeschooler.
I am eighteen years old and currently in my second year of college. I have been homeschooled, or more properly unschooled, for most of my life. I went through about two and a half years of public education in kindergarten, first, and half of second grade. I went back for the second half of seventh and all of eighth grades, and did my freshman year of highschool in a private charter school. Most significant parts of my education have been my doing individually and mine alone. For this, I thank my blessed mother, who, as a librarian with an almost fanatical love of books, has been all to eager to supply me with all the resources I could possibly need to study anything, from English to physics to logic to theology to medicine to botany.
I regard as her greatest gift to me the love of learning and knowledge for it’s own sake. She began nurturing this love early, by taking advantage of natural, completely unforced enthusiasm for whatever was my interest at the time. While this method may make you cringe, let me assure you it is most effective. When in fifth grade I took a shine to herbal medicine, started studying it, and built a medicinal garden with my mother’s help (she’s also a genius gardener.) That experience has been vital to the development of my thinking, because it trained me to combine focus with a passion which might otherwise have been fleeting, completely taking the suffering so often associated with “schooling” out of the equation. Now, learning is an everpresent pleasure. But enough about me, let me get to your article.
“10. ‘You were totally home schooled’ is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm (whether or not the offender was home schooled or not). And… say what you will… but it doesn’t feel nice to be considered an outsider, a natural outcropping of being homeschooled.”
I have never once heard this insult directed toward anyone, let alone myself. But then, I don’t live in a dorm either. People treat me with respect and I do likewise; if they don’t, I don’t care, because a statement like that shows a kind of shallowness which makes it more difficult to take anything a person says too terribly seriously. =) In addition, I prefer to be treated as an outsider by a good chunk of people, because that’s generally the reality of the situation, which is good.
“9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope). It also shouldn’t be where the family gathers to watch American Idol or to play Wii. Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study. In modern society, we call them schools.”
First off, homeschoolers are the old-fashioned ones here. Throughout much of history, children have learned much about day to day life at their parents’ knee. Tradesmen would teach their sons or apprentices their craft in their home workshop. Those who could afford it would hire tutors who would teach in the home. But disregarding the historical inaccuracy for a moment, why would this concern you? Is it the potential for distractions? Well, life is full of distractions, and the sooner you get used to coping with them the better! Is there some research suggesting that children who learn in multi purpose rooms do worse academically than those who don’t? Is there an established causal connection, and not just a correlation? No? I thought not.
“8. Homeschooling is selfish. According to this article in USA Today, students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families. To take these (I’m assuming) high achieving students out of our schools is a disservice to our less fortunate public school kids. Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.”
I agree. It is selfish. It is also unfair, much like life, capitalism, the search for a loving spouse, the weather, infectious diseases, etc., etc. Both of my parents have degrees from colleges, mom in library science and dad in film. But doncha know it cuts both ways? By putting students who are in a position to thrive with the support of al their economic and familial resources in with the less fortunate, you’re limiting them, doing them a disservice, and it’s just not fair(lol)!! What good might these well provisioned young minds do if not held back? Perhaps help minimize some of life’s unfairness? I mean to find out.
“7. God hates homeschooling. The study, done by the National Center for Education Statistics, notes that the most common reason parents gave as the most important was a desire to provide religious or moral instruction. To the homeschooling Believers out there, didn’t God say “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations”? Didn’t he command, “Ye shall be witnesses unto me”? From my side, to take your faithful children out of schools is to miss an opportunity to spread the grace, power and beauty of the Lord to the common people. (Personally I’m agnostic, but I’m just saying…)”
The answer to your objection is contained within this section. Homeschooled children kept out of school lose the opportunity to be salt and light for their peers, because they’re at home learning how to be salt and light for their peers.
“6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me, and biology as well as a trained professional, and history… and Spanish… and art… and counsel for college as well as a school’s guidance counselor… and… and…”
On English in particular, the only thing any of my junior high or highschool English teachers ever taught me was a bunch of syntax. For all their degrees and years of experience, they failed, utterly and completely to inspire a love of literature in students who didn’t already have it. Quite the opposite in fact, far too many of my peers developed an active hatred of reading thanks to those miserable slave drivers! What I know of English I know from reading books, because I wanted to. Now, not all kids will want to read the same things at the same time, or want to read at all for that matter; some will have different interests, which they should be allowed to pursue. That way everyone has equal opportunity to succeed, and those who want to can, when they want to.
Let me also say that I am woefully behind in my study of mathematics. This is for a number of reasons, but the main one has been lack of interest, ever since a dreadful experience with a junior high math teacher. Now that I’ve regained interest, and recovered from the trauma, I can start studying with real interest again!
“5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)”
Would you like a cup of tea?
“4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Unless the student is being homeschooled at the MTV Real World house, there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room. How can a young person learn to appreciate other cultures if he or she doesn’t live among them?”
By intolerance, do you mean the same sort of thing as the insistence of some graduated professionals that they are the only ones qualified to teach anyone how to boil an egg? Now, I really, truly DO NOT mean to be belligerent in saying that, but it begs to be said. As for other racial/cultural/sexual backgrounds, pardon me if I fail to see the problem. No homeschooler I know of is racist or sexist unless you count old fashioned notions such as chivalry and traditional gender roles as sexist. As for cultural and sexual differences, most homeschoolers are nothing if not tactful. That doesn’t mean we Christian homeschoolers don’t view such things as homosexuality as objectively wrong for all people in all places at all times, we do, but we also know that “A soft answer turns away wrath, but a harsh word stirs up anger.” – Proverbs 15: 1, ESV
“3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.”
Some don’t socialize much, the majority do. Kung fu or dance class, sports, local hang outs. For myself, I didn’t socialize as much as some, except for church, bible study and kung fu. Since I wasn’t immersed in the mainstream culture, I got to pick up my culturin’ from books, family and church, generally the good old fashioned Western anglo saxon culture of such people as Edmund Burke. I can still socialize just fine with people of other cultures, as can my homschooled friends. Most of my experience directly contradicts your impression of the matter. There’s some doubt for that theory of yours.
Related note: Cultural distinctions are a valuable thing, you know. You place emphasis on the importance of appreciating cultures besides one’s own. This is a great thing, a wonderful thing, but the danger lies in the anglo saxon majority of this country being so preoccupied with appreciating other people’s cultures that they lose sight of their own, the great culture that brought us the mixed blessing and curse of the Enlightenment, and the principles of Justice founded on Divine law, principles upon which our own country is based! (<==={{ Was that a run-on sentence?)
"2. Homeschooling parents are arrogant, Part 2. According to Henry Cate, who runs the Why Homeschool blog, many highly educated, high-income parents are “probably people who are a little bit more comfortable in taking risks” in choosing a college or line of work. 'The attributes that facilitate that might also facilitate them being more comfortable with home-schooling.'
More comfortable taking risks with their child’s education? Gamble on, I don’t know, the Superbowl, not your child’s future."
Reward is so often proportional to risk taken, don't you think? Whatever the risk, the outcome is apparently excellent often enough for Ivy League universities to start looking with particular favor on homeschooled applicants.
http://www.hslda.org/docs/nche/000002/00000234.asp
"1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.
*** Please see the comments for thoughts on the word ‘geeky.’ But, in general, to be geeky connotes a certain inability to integrate and communicate in diverse social situations. Which, I would argue, is a likely result of being educated in an environment without peers. It’s hard to get by in such a diverse world as ours! And the more people you can hang out with the more likely you are to succeed, both in work life and real life."
There's not much more to say, my experience tends to contradict what you're saying here. Except for the bit on integration. There is little question where my allegiances lie, if the discussion comes round to it, or what my background is. The same can be said of most homeschoolers. Integration is so over hyped as a virtue, we homeschooled types are content to be the respectful dissenters when necessary. Conviction isn't a sin, and I suspect you know that, but the way talk of "integration" and "diversity" is usually framed, it does give that impression. Just something to think about.
Cheers, and thanks for the interesting discussion!
~Howard
Arrogance like this explains it all.
Homeschooling is necessary when professional “educators” lose sight of the children in pursuit of their own bitter agenda. No wonder so many kids drop out.
Wow! JESSE SCACCIA
This article is so far off…I can not even begain…
1)You sentence structure is completely off and boring.
2)It seems to me you have not done current research on homeschooling and their family beside what you hear…or have a view of “homeschoolers” misconceptive
3)You article is so “out-of-it”…that I could not force myself to read anymore of it….it honestly “hurt” my eyes to read this!
4)maybe you should have been homeschooled because of your “attitude” and maybe, just maybe you could have been a better writer with a little “One-on-one” instruction.
Socialization?…what is that?….I get this all the time as a homeschooler….lol lol lol
Do you think going through a “metal” detective everyday is a good social environment…
Do you think…having fear that some “mis-fit” who didn’t get his “A” is going to come back to the school and shoot all his teachers and classmates….
Do you think…the bullies would mind if you told them to stop or if your parents has written several letters to the teachers of this and other events going to stop bullies and other bad behavior kids bothering your kid and others….
Do you think because a parent is paying money that their kids should have the “Privilege” to misbehave..and the teacher turn his/her head fearing the school is not going to get that “money” from these Parents….
Do you think teachers who are lazy and wants everybody to be on a same lower level because she is to lazy to update her/his teaching skills and books….fearing he/she needs to go back to school to learn other ways to teach..
Do you think kids being molested by Teachers is a good social environment.. ?
Wow…I love my kid too much to have him in THIS type of Negative SOCIAL environment…
Leave homeschoolers alone…and stop all this rhetoric and do research FIRST!
“But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me…”
Not being able to choose the correct pronoun (I) in this sentence certainly weakens your case
Pingback: 52 Churches » Blog Archive » 208: It’s True. I Only Homeschool to Piss Off Other People, Part I
I’m betting you don’t have any children of your own, do you Jesse?
Pingback: Racism and Homeschooling « Simply Catholic
The following statements describe me:
(a) homeschooled all the way through,
(b) never been called geeky in my life,
(c) graduated Magna cum Laude from college with a B.A. in Political Science,
(d) working toward a master’s in communications,
(e) a social extrovert,
(f) never ate Fruit Loops and meatloaf at the same time (ew!),
(g) definitely plan to homeschool my kids. Not because I’m selfish, but because I think that’s what is best for them.
And by the way, it’s not at all arrogant that my mother thought she could give me a better education than those with multiple degrees could. That’s because she never actually taught me. I learned totally from textbooks that were written by people with multiple degrees. So, in terms of education, the main difference between the way I learned and the way your students are learning is that I didn’t spend hours of extra time in class. This accelerated my education and gave me more time for other things: social interaction (in a healthy, non-peer-dependent way), extra-curricular activities, and — much to my consternation at the time — *more* academics.
Students who learn in this way (as opposed to the “traditional” way) generally have skyrocketing reading comprehension. This is more than just a good way to learn — it’s a life skill. Homeschoolers are learning how to *teach themselves,* in a sense. They don’t need someone to spoon-feed them the concepts. I found college frustrating because I would read the textbook, and then have a teacher spend hours explaining what was in the textbook to other people who didn’t get it.
I apologize if any of this sounds arrogant — I don’t consider *myself* better than any other person, but I do consider homeschooling to be a superior means of learning. (Have I mentioned that I also am a teacher?) Having experienced both homeschooling and the classroom setting first-hand, I have no qualms whatsoever about saying that homeschooling is a more educationally sound means of learning.
I have arguments concerning the “homeschoolers-are-socially-inept” line as well, but this post is too long already.
Thanks for the interesting topic.
I’m a homeschooling mother of three who was linked to your article and this one (http://tcsdaily.com/Article.aspx?id=052609A) all in the same day.
No need for me to add to the content of the many comments you have already received. My dedication to the education of my children, to their strong character, and to their admirable social skills is unwavering.
Um. Those ARE gang signs, you idiot. They’re become semi-”mainstreamed”, thanks to hip-hop, but they were once insider-only gang signs and remain a reference to gang culture.
Geez. You’d think a “social integrated” teacher would have a clue.
>Homeschooling: great for self-aggrandizing, society-phobic mother…… but not quite so good for the kid.
Society-phobic. Right. So that’s why homeschoolers are, on average, involved in twice the extra-curriculars than the average non-homeschooled student, right?
Or maybe, because homeschoolers aren’t locked for 6+ hours a day in artificial age-segregated hothouses, they actually spend more time in the REAL WORLD–in REAL SOCIETY–than your hothouse lilies. Just because we isolate most students in such bizarre environments doesn’t mean that it automatically becomes good training for the rest of their lives. In fact, it could hardly be more different from a working environment for most adults.
>10. “You were totally home schooled” is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm (whether or not the offender was home schooled or not). And… say what you will… but it doesn’t feel nice to be considered an outsider, a natural outcropping of being homeschooled.
What kind of backward, anti-intellectual, fourth-tier school did you go to? I can assure you that at my FIRST-tier university–and at and other first-tier university you care to name–this is not the case.
This preoccupation of what other people might think of you–”Oh, what if I’m not POPULAR!!!”–is a frequent and unhealthy artifact of institutional schooling. When one looks to one’s peers to determine the best behavior, immaturity of this sort is the inevitable result. The fact that this is the FIRST thing you think of is especially damning of your own inability to be an independent, mature, and thinking person.
>9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope). It also shouldn’t be where the family gathers to watch American Idol or to play Wii. Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study. In modern society, we call them schools.
“Old-fashioned” would be the governess/tutor model, the model by which most of the great minds in Western history were taught in their earliest years.
You only need a special “leaning-focused place” when one’s entire life is not built around learning. Those who view learning as unnatural and forced believe that one needs a special place in which to do it. (This quite aside from the fact that many homeschoolers have homeschooling areas, if not rooms…) “Learning” must happen at a prescribed place and in a prescribed time, you believe, and then, when that time is over, it stops. This again shows your unhealthy anti-intellectual, pro-institutional mentality.
Schools are, in fact, just about THE most inefficient way to teach a child. They are most useful as warehouses to store children for an appropriate amount of time per day so their parents can work without paying much childcare. The typical K-2 curriculum can be covered in a small group or one-on-one in about two hours per day, for the average student, and this includes the homework that is normally sent by institutional schools.
Speaking of which, if a school is the best place to learn, why do teachers need to give ANY homework? They have the kids for so many hours per day–if school were a good learning environment, children’s play time would not have to be STOLEN so they can do spelling and math at home.
In addition, if schools were any good at teaching, then the home environment wouldn’t be the single greatest predictor of academic success. Funny thing–you can have the best-funded school in the world, but home environment still trumps all.
>8. Homeschooling is selfish.
You can say this just as soon as you search your area for the very worst schools and deliberately buy a house in that area in order that your children may do the most good in uplifting the poor, underprivileged children there.
Meanwhile, the homeschoolers in your area are completing real-world service projects and volunteer at various aid organizations and actually HELP other people, which they have time to do because “school” takes them so much less time than it does institutionalized children.
>7. God hates homeschooling.
“Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.” One’s first obligation to one’s children is to train them. There are plenty of biblical references to not allowing corrupting influences, including friends, and to keep to that which is pure. To sit down and dine with publicans and sinners is different from choosing one’s best friends from among them–and a child must be secure in his or her beliefs and identity and gain to strength, first, to face temptation (from drugs to promiscuity to lying to hate) and overcome it. One can’t be thrown in with fools and expect wisdom to be the outcome. And most children? Well, of COURSE they are fools! They are children, and the must taught such things as not to hit and kick and bite! This is learned from adults, not other children of the same age.
This doesn’t mean that a child is isolated from the rest of the world, just that their closest relationships are ensured to be healthy. And before you turn up your nose at that, I don’t know a decent parent who doesn’t worry about a friend who is a bad influence and who doesn’t guide their children away from such people, no matter what kind of education their children get.
We don’t homeschool because of religion. But I can still recognize a fatuous and ignorant argument when I see it.
6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me, and biology as well as a trained professional, and history… and Spanish… and art… and counsel for college as well as a school’s guidance counselor… and… and…
Um. Yes, I can. EASILY.
First of all, it’s hardly a parlor trick to do better than 85% of teachers 100% of the time. One-on-one education is so much easier than classroom teaching that it’s not even comparable. (I have taught large groups, small groups, and done various one-on-one tutoring.) It can be grueling in its own way, but as far as getting knowledge into the head of a child, one-on-one is a snap. Truly, any idiot who gives a care can do better than the schools while exerting only minimal effort.
The effectiveness of one-on-one instruction is why parents of public-schooled children hire tutors and don’t stick their kids into an after-school class if their kids need more help. Tutoring works BETTER. It doesn’t take any genius to figure this out. So, in a typical K-5 sequence, a child with a very, very mediocre homeschooling parent would miss out in a better education one year out of six and would have better instruction the other five. No wonder homeschoolers do better on standardized tests!
In addition, homeschooling parents are FAR more aware than a classroom teacher of exactly what a student knows and doesn’t know, and in a one-on-one environment, they can teach to mastery every time. The result? Much, much better comprehension and retention.
So what if a parent can’t teach a particular subject? He or she can hire a tutor, just like anyone else. And most do. Many, many homeschoolers turn to community college in the last years, as well.
My qualifications for teaching English? I “merely” have a BA, but I have more graduate courses in English than most MAs, and I have actually, you know, written something that lots of people pay to read: six novels in eight languages (and counting). Additionally, I have taken more university-level mathematics than average high school math teachers in most states and more university-level science than average high school science teachers in most states. Oh, and I majored in a foreign language, too.
If I don’t know something I want to teach, I can learn it. Unlike those who rely upon the crutch of a classroom to learn anything new, we are self-motivated and are accomplished autodidacts.
By the way, my son just finished Kindergarten. He is also in finish a VERY rigorous 4th grade math program, is reading at a solid 7th grade level, and is ready for middle school history and science. (He’s done this all while spending less than 4 hours per day in “school.”) Oh, and he’s on the swim team, has tons of friends who adore him (and is ridiculously popular among his peers as well as older children and adults), and is an IDEAL brother who dotes upon his baby sister to no end. (He’s only involved in one other formal extracurricular for now. I’ll let him puck up two more next year, but overall, I don’t believe in heavily scheduling children. Play is crucial to healthy development. DS plays outside with his friends for a minimum of three hours a day.)
So what, exactly, are we supposed to be missing out on here? And how am I delusional, when I have a child functioning at the top 99.99th %ile?
>5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)
And once again, you’re displaying the classic result of modern institutional schooling. “I don’t like it, so it’s bad.” GREAT application of logic there. But logic doesn’t matter, does it? It’s all about how you feel. If it makes you feel bad about yourself, something is automatically bad. (If it makes other people feel bad but not you, then they’re just being judgmental, of course.)
Your including this as a reason and seriously believing it is any sort of argument is one of the most powerful arguments imaginable AGAINST institutional schooling.
>4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Unless the student is being homeschooled at the MTV Real World house, there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room\
Homeschoolers in a region tend to be nonconformists of ALL types, and a greater gathering of extremes you’ll rarely see than at a non-religion-specific homeschooling event, and people travel across school boundaries to participate. This is in addition to all the extracurriculars that most homeschoolers are involved in!
In comparison, your average public school draws from a very limited area, with its specific socioeconomic identity, ESPECIALLY pre-high-school. Kids go to school with their neighbors and have limited contact with those outside their very narrow districts. Within the school, they hang out with the art kids or the honors kids or the jocks or the Goths, ignoring or conflicting with other groups. And this is training for adult life?
BTW, my family is interracial, and my DH and in-laws are both immigrants. If you think that public schooled kids understand “other cultures,” you’re delusional, as any immigrant will tell you (while laughing hysterically). They don’t even understand the sociopolitical climates of other STATES, much less anything about other countries. I challenge you to name a single culture other than your own that you “understand” and to explain it. In fact, I challenge you to explain the mindset of the average educated woman from your own culture in 1888. Your background gives you delusions of comprehension only.
>3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially.
America is not a “grand multi-cultural experiment,” nor do you actually want it to be. This is another delusion. That you MEAN by “multi-cultural” is “forced indoctrination in wishy-washy cultural relativism.”
This is “intolerant tolerance.” For one thing, it is fake. Cultures are by their very nature exclusive. What defines a culture is both what it includes and what it excludes. You are promoting a monoculture of false, superficial differences and are completely intolerant of any meaningful difference of culture or opinion. Your very scorn of homeschooling and its culture is a prime example. You take a VERY narrow-minded political philosophy and label it “acceptance” and call everything else “intolerance”–which means only people with beliefs EXACTLY LIKE YOURS are acceptable to you.
Only after years of mindless indoctrination can this appear even distantly rational. But again, logic has been thrown out of the educational process as it interferes with indoctrination.
If you actually did some research and looked at surveys of homeschooled versus public schooled populations, you’d find that homeschoolers are more open to freedom of speech, action, and lifestyle than institutionally schooled people to a notable degree. The institutionally schooled are more like you–open to people doing only things that they like.
Homeschooled kids get out more into the real world than institutionalized kids physically have TIME for. It’s institutionalized kids who have no ability to relate to anyone outside of their tiny experience. They base their lives off the opinions of their friends–and there is nothing more narrow than a group of children who define the world in terms of themselves.
>2. Homeschooling parents are arrogant, Part 2. According to Henry Cate, who runs the Why Homeschool blog, many highly educated, high-income parents are “probably people who are a little bit more comfortable in taking risks” in choosing a college or line of work. “The attributes that facilitate that might also facilitate them being more comfortable with home-schooling.”
“Arrogant.” Right. Actually, the correct term is “have a high level of self-efficacy”–the same trait in parent that has been linked, more than any other factor, to school success in institutionalized children.
Teachers like you–BAD teachers–NEED parents to feel powerless and ignorant. They can’t stand dialog, much less to have their authority challenged.
That is why the idea of a parent who does your job, only better, is so frightening. You want to be the parent, too–in fact, you believe that it is your place to indoctrinate children into your belief system. You cannot tolerate disagreement. You cannot tolerate differences.
>1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***.
Yes, I have met many. And yes, by your standards, most would be “geeky” because they often do not feel a need to impress their peers with their clothes, their toys, and their attitudes. Apparently, though, you are still locked in a middle school mindest, as this is your #1 (TWICE!!!! stated) reason that homeschooling is bad.
Homeschoolers don’t play the same popularity games! They don’t vie for pecking order or for a teacher’s attention in a classroom! This is intolerable, and it must be stopped.
What a typically vicious reaction of a person brainwashed by the norms of a child. Fortunately, many people outgrow this mindset. You, however, did not.
Homeschoolers are more mature than the average student. The fact that this, more than anything, is distasteful to you is a VERY telling statement.
This article is fabulous example of bigotry, bile, spite, anti-intellectualism, logical incoherence, and incapacity to thought caused by the mindless embrace of doctrine. It is, in fact, a perfect representation of exactly why it is that we do homeschool.
Good job.
I wonder what the founding fathers of our great nation would say about public education considering that they were homeschooled.
Might I suggest you watch what you say. You say you are in the education field… I personally feel that your words are nothing but hatred and mindless ranting.
As a parent you offend me on every level with your comments.
To think that you are a teacher who shapes young people by the masses is something that horror movies are made of in my mind.
You seem to have an ax to grind, one full of intolerance and half truths.
Last I looked we were still a country based on freedom and choice, this was confirmed 2 weeks ago as my oldest homeschooler received his commision as a 2nd Lt, with prior war service.
It is my choice to give my children the best education possible.
The thought that they should be mainstreamed into a system that is broken beyond repair to make others feel better is disturbing.
If I am willing to invest my time, my money and me resources in giving my child as big of an advantage in this world, what business of it is yours?
Do I apologize for the high ACT scores, the merit scholarships offered by colleges, the hunger to learn and understand, the willingness to reach out and help others, the clear sense of who they are and how they have been blessed?
Not a chance, instead I give thanks to a God who gives me courage to do what is best for my children in spite of what others filled with petty attitudes may think.
Reason #1 why I homeschool; so I can train my children in basic “logic” so they avoid writing diatribes like this one of Mr. Scaccia. Sorry, but if this is the best you can do with your higher degrees, you need to hit the books again. Specifically, Isaac Watts’ book on logic–the fallacies in this list fall clearly into the category of “errors of perception.” You don’t even get into the sections on syllogisms.
I am a homeschooling mom and I would not trade this opportunity for anything. Many of my opinions have been expressed by others but I feel I must comment.
1. My son has Asperger’s syndrome and as a result of his diagnosis we realized that my husband has it as well. My husband is a brilliant man but because of social problems (in school) he had a VERY difficult time. He was very angry because of the way other students, the teachers and even the administration treated him. Why would we put our child through that? Our son is well adjusted and he does not know a stranger.
2. We are not wealthy and only a few of the homeschool families that we know are even considered well-off.
3. My son has learned so much by following his interests. Yes, we have a structured school time but he has time during the day to read about what interests him.
4. I know a lot of kids who go to public school and I know what they are like. Some are very nice and I enjoy being around them. How about you get to know some the amazing homeschool kids and parents in your area. You might be surprised. In fact, I know you will be.
I know you weren’t targeting home schooling readers with your post, but it’s the web and regardless, your tone was still pretty insulting to anyone who home schools, with or without the sarcasm.
Each home schooling family does it for different reasons. Some are geeky and self-absorbed and a number of other things. Others simply think it’s the best educational option available.
Public schools don’t own the market on giving every kid the best education they can possibly have. I have no problem with public schools, so why do you have a problem with us? The message of tolerance and acceptance that’s supposed to permeate the public school classroom doesn’t seem to extend to those who home school.
(For what it’s worth, my parents actually encouraged me to go to public school, I went to a public university as an education major, and my wife went to public school. Our kids might go to public school too, or they might not. What difference does it really make? Parenting does a lot more for one’s “geekyness” or social aptitude than education methods.)
Wow, I read this wondering if it would effect my decision to home school my 5 year old daughter. And it did! It reinforced my decision.
The most compelling argument in this entire article is, “Your kid won’t be as coolzors as the public schooled kids!!!” And that I don’t care about.
Not only do I NOT care about the “coolness” factor of my child. I don’t want her to care either. Public school is NOT the real world. People have to spend time recovering from public school. College aged kids always make comments like, “She still acts like she’s in high school.”
I think my best bet for my child’s for her to see the entire world as a classroom and to interact with the people in the world. (Not all people are in classrooms. Just students and teachers. And she gets to interact with students and teachers all the time. Her best friend is a student and her best friend’s father is a teacher.)
I don’t want her to think that learning and fun are separate. I don’t want her to only interact with people her same age. I don’t want her to be forced to learn things only one way.
On a side note, school field trips are ridiculous. It’s like taking a circus on the road. There is zero learning happening. ZERO. I can say from experience in the many field trips I took as a kid in school I learned nothing other than to stand in line and stay with my buddy. It was a waste of time.
Jesse, you raise a good point. #5 is dead on! (Tolerance is a virtue, though.)
1.) I went to public school and it SUCKED!
2.) My sister is certified to be an English teacher and she didn’t have to do HALF the stuff that you CLAIM you did to become one. Who’s arrogant now…?
3.) My husband was homeschooled. He is anything but geeky. His parents weren’t wealthy. He is MORE outgoing and social than I am (did I mention I went to a PUBLIC school??).
4.) Since you’re agnostic, please don’t try to throw scripture in anyone’s face. You don’t know the half of it.
5.) My husband played Little League with all those public school kids and it was for more than an hour a day.
6.) Don’t think for one second that just because someone goes to public school they will learn tolerance. You obviously don’t teach anywhere in the south!
Thanks for the article. It’s enlightening and also reaffirms the reasons I am choosing NOT to put my children in a public school.
Hahaha…”Not to hate but they tend to be pretty geeky.” Well isn’t that comment just the picture of tolerance? And you learned that from being in public school, right?
Guys! Give it a rest! Isn’t it obvious by now that “Jesse” is a fictional character and that this laughable article was actually written by a homeschooling advocate in order to strengthen the case FOR homeschooling? I mean, really. Surely no respectable, passionate public school educator would write something like this in earnest and expect people to take it seriously.
Alright, “Jesse”, you’ve had your fun. The joke’s on us. Time to come clean and ‘fess up.
(Of course, I *could* be wrong about that…)
I love to hear see new styles of writing and hear new opinions. But personally, I thought this article was crap.
Me? I’m a high school student, so I have about as much input as possible. Let me start off by saying that I’m a special case. I simply can’t do well in school–it’s not me. All the useless (my opinion) work and hours spent attaining a goal (which happens to be paper) is simply not me.
Now, over time, being in high school has shown me exactly what it is. School is cattle ranch. You’re just another cattle from the group, being prepared for a live of expanding your owner’s empire. I admit, I do exaggerate. Before I continue, I know the typical response to this–I’ve gotten it hundreds of times. “You have no idea how much you’ve really learned in school.” Or maybe, “You’ll never get anywhere without an education.” Quite frankly, school has been the most time consuming, yet one of the least genuinely “educational” experiences of my life. I don’t know, maybe I’m crazy; screw that I am crazy, but school isn’t for people like me.
The one thing I have against home-schooling, which you barely covered, is that one doesn’t get a proper “feel” of interacting with others. However, I notice that the mostly untaught “social education” you get in school lacks substance. You learn how to dress like everyone else, how to seduce girls (or boys), how to be yourself–just like everyone else.
My kids are going to home-school.
I love to read articles like yours. It just goes to show how little you truly know about homeschoolers. I was a homeschooled child through 8th grade. Then I was public schooled in high school. I am a teacher by trade. I taught in public school for two years and private school for two years. Then I decided to homeschool my three precious children for the last 10 years. Homeschooling is not for every child, but for many it is an excellent choice. For my children it has been a huge blessing. My son went to school in the public sector and decided he would rather be homeschooled.
As far as being selfish, I gave up a great job to homeschool my children. I don’t get paid a penny for what I do for my kids. It is all in hugs and kisses and reading time together.
By the way, there are “geeks” as you so call them in the public school, private school, and homeschool. My kids attend a tutorial program that is awesome, and they go to church regularly. If keeping children away from drugs, sex, ugly language, and disrespectful attitudes is what you are calling a “geek,” then thank goodness my kids are “geeks.” If your definition of a “geek” is a child that is respectful to their peers, respectful to their parents, loving to little kids, and strives to dream about their future in engineering or med school, then my kids are “geeks.” Yeah!
It might be important next time to really do your homework before writing an article that is so “racist,” using your words. It appears that you exhibit racism towards those that are homeschooled. All the articles you chose to use only support your view. I will be happy to show you articles that support homeschooling. There are many. Funny that you claim to be the expert, when I am pretty sure you haven’t truly investigated your complaints.
Homeschooled students are highly accepted in most colleges because they know how to study, are well mannered, are respectful, and know what they want. Are there some that don’t fit that category? Absolutely. Are there some that socially have issues? Absolutely. Does that apply to the majority? No way. I bet you would find all of those types in the public school as well.
I enjoy articles like yours because it just confirms my decision to homeschool my children. I sure wouldn’t want a racist teacher like you teaching my children that people are different just because they are homeschooled or any other choice parents choose to make for their children. I wonder if you even have children in the first place. Your comments do not appear to reflect you are even a parent.
Three of my friends put their kids in public school, and their kids decided they didn’t want to be in that environment where students don’t care about those around them. Two of my friends put their kids in public school, and the kids loved it. Again, homeschooling isn’t for everyone. Those that wish that environment should be allowed to enjoy it without others being so convinced that there way is the only way.
This article made me laugh. I am a result of homeschooling myself until public high school, and I was voted my first year in public high school as being the most well-rounded student in the school. The next year I was voted as homecoming queen. The next year I was voted as Ms. Congeniality. None of those required me to bend any of my Christian beliefs in any way. By the way, again, I was homeschooled most of my life.
Thanks for letting me read your letter. I am more convinced than ever that I DON’T want my kids in your so-called “social” surroundings. I am not against public schools, as I think they are great for those that want to go there. I just don’t think they are for everyone. Would I allow my son to go if he wanted to go? I would definitely consider it if he wanted to go. It would be a decision our whole family would make with great prayer. My sister-in-law made that decision with two of her kids. She homeschools the other two. It worked great.
God bless you in your pursuits, and I hope that you will venture to throw your anger in another direction. The rest of us who are homeschooling will just continue to do what we feel is best for our children. Thanks again for the amusement in your article.
Jennifer Almon
If you want to see some “unsocialized” homeschool teens in action, check out http://www.fusefly.com
Awesome comments from everyone. I think the best one was the one about you having the chance to rewrite this article. Wouldn’t that be awesome! Maybe you could write it with pros and cons of both sides. Smile! There are pros and cons of all forms of education.
Oh, I didn’t mention before that we “homeschooling parents” are pretty passionate about what we are doing for our precious children. I think you have figured that one out.
Thanks again for the laughs.
Jennifer Almon
Come on, folks, let’s give Jesse a little credit for at least (kinda sorta) apologizing for the tone of his original post.
As a homeschool alumna, yes, it does bother me when people broadbrush all homeschoolers in a negative way — but at the same time, is this really anything we’re not used to, folks? I’ve been taking flack from all kinds of people about my education since I was a little kid (how’s that for helping a kid develop thick skin?). I’m used to it. Quite honestly, I’m more or less tolerant of people who hate on me because I figure they mostly just don’t understand or have the facts.
Interesting article, Jesse. I disagreed with every bit of it.
But it’s a free country, and you’re entitled to your opinion. Free and open debate is what makes the country so awesome. Just don’t spread too much hate around, okay? 
We homeschoolers are pretty nice people most of the time, but we get ragingly defensive when people make negative generalizations about us.
This blog posting totally just made my day. I *would* like to respond to it, but I fear my words will not be heard.
I’m a fifteen-year-old homeschooler and that fact that you just called me and all of my (numerous) friends (with many ethnic, religious, political backgrounds) “geeks” practically made me fall of my chair with laughter.
This post is truly hilarious.
This blog posting totally just made my day. I *would* like to respond to it, but I fear my words will not be heard.
I’m a fifteen-year-old homeschooler and that fact that you just called me and all of my (numerous) friends (with many ethnic, religious, political backgrounds) “geeks” practically made me fall of my chair with laughter.
This post is truly hilarious.
This blog posting totally just made my day. I *would* like to respond to it, but I fear my words will not be heard.
I’m a fifteen-year-old homeschooled student and the fact that you just called me and all of my (numerous) friends (with many ethnic, religious, political backgrounds) “geeks” practically made me fall of my chair with laughter.
This post is truly hilarious.
Oh wait….saying that implies that all my friends are homeschooled, which isn’t true.
You are a fuck face.
I call bullshit. This top ten list is a fake and you are just some kid trying to get a rise out of good christian folks.
Okay, so I read this for the first time and my eyes practically bugged out of my head. Do people honestly believe these things? All those who stepped up to defend these ludicrous ideas about homeschooling have said wonderful, logical, humorous and admirable things, but I haven’t noticed many homeschooling kids commenting. So I, as a 15-year-old, homeschooled “geek” am going to use my time replying to your blog post, instead of holed up in my room, away from the rest of my family and friends, stressing over homework like so many of my friends are at this moment.
You start out with an insult: “Homeschooling: great for self-aggrandizing, society-phobic mother.” Because insults always set the stage for intelligent, respectful, informative essays.
And then you go on:
‘10. “You were totally home schooled” is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm (whether or not the offender was home schooled or not). And… say what you will… but it doesn’t feel nice to be considered an outsider, a natural outcropping of being homeschooled.’
Have you been in this situation yourself? Have you ever been a homeschooled, “outsider” kid? I have. Firstly, I rarely feel like an “outsider,” and when I do feel like an outsider it’s usually for a positive reason. I don’t participate in things like swearing, cuddling with those of the opposite gender, texting in the middle of classes/rehearsals, making inappropriate comments/jokes, etc. Secondly, I have *never* received any negative comments about my being homeschooled. Whenever anyone – peer or adult – asks me where I go to school or why I’m not in school during the allotted hours and I tell them that I’m homeschooled, they always respond with enthusiasm or curiosity – never hatred or with degrading comments.
“9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope). It also shouldn’t be where the family gathers to watch American Idol or to play Wii. Students–from little ones to teens–deserve a learning-focused place to study. In modern society, we call them schools.”
I find that my bedroom is the most comfortable, distraction-free environment I could ever study in. The thought of sitting on a hard chair in a white-walled classroom with bright lights overhead and twenty other kids around me seems like a learning nightmare – *full* of distractions, pressure and many other undesirable things that would definitely take *away* from the learning experience. I went to public school kindergarten and a private school for first grade and I hated that environment. I’ve found that it’s not necessarily the *environment* kids learn in, but *what* they learn and *who* they learn it with.
“8. Homeschooling is selfish. According to this article in USA Today, students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families. To take these (I’m assuming) high achieving students out of our schools is a disservice to our less fortunate public school kids. Poorer students with less literate parents are more reliant on peer support and motivation, and they greatly benefit from the focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.”
This is the most absurd thing I’ve ever heard. Poorer students should *not* have to look towards their fellow *classmates* for support and motivation. The teachers should be the ones there for them, helping them if they’re falling behind, encouraging them if they have a dream they’d like to follow – what on earth are teachers there for? I would love to see some statistics about your claim that the poorer kids benefit from the “focus and commitment of their richer and higher achieving classmates.” That sounds like complete nonsense to me.
“7. God hates homeschooling. The study, done by the National Center for Education Statistics, notes that the most common reason parents gave as the most important was a desire to provide religious or moral instruction. To the homeschooling Believers out there, didn’t God say “Go therefore and make disciples of all nations”? Didn’t he command, “Ye shall be witnesses unto me”? From my side, to take your faithful children out of schools is to miss an opportunity to spread the grace, power and beauty of the Lord to the common people. (Personally I’m agnostic, but I’m just saying…)”
This topic has already been covered, but I’ll add to it anyway: Do you believe that homeschooling is merely keeping a child locked up in a house without any contact with the outside world? No – you have no *idea* what homeschoolers get to do while their public/private-schooled peers are confined to the classroom. During school hours, I love to take bike rides to the “old town” district of my city, do my schoolwork in quaint cafes or outdoors on the grass under shady trees. I ride my bike down to the grocery store and go grocery shopping for my mom. I try to help the homeless people I see on the side of the road. And I go so many other places with my family and homeschooled friends, as well – meeting new people, experiencing new cultures, cuisines – everything…I am constantly among other people of every background imaginable – far more than I would be if I was required to sit in a classroom for hours among my peers in an environment which suppresses my beliefs – which obviously is a great opportunity to spread the good news of the Lord!
“6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? Well, maybe you can. I’ll give you that. But there’s no way that you can teach English as well as me, and biology as well as a trained professional, and history… and Spanish… and art… and counsel for college as well as a school’s guidance counselor… and… and…”
My mom’s qualifications to teach me are: “She’s my mom.” She may not have as many majors and degrees as you so proudly boasted of, but she knows me better than anyone else – she knows what my passions are, she knows what my learning style is, and most of all she has an unquenchable desire to provide me with the best education I could ever get. I highly doubt a government-hired teacher would be capable of that. But honestly – do you think learning and life equals school? Do you think that algebra, geometry, English, science and everything else is all a child should be taught? What about morals, loving one another, respect, individuality, a love of learning – what about all of those things? What about being taught how to use the knowledge you are so pressured to learn? There’s a huge difference between knowledge and wisdom, and it seems that school these days is merely looking for high test scores, not teaching children to wisely use the knowledge they gain. My mom can teach me more than a paid, professional high school teacher ever could.
And another point – there are *so* many resources for homeschoolers, now. My mom certainly doesn’t teach me every subject – I took Latin online last school year and this year I’m taking classes on biology, math, Hermeneutics and theology. Not every homeschooler is taught at home by his/her parents.
“5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)”
Talk about arrogant to the point of lunacy.
“4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. Unless the student is being homeschooled at the MTV Real World house, there’s probably only one race/sexuality/background in the room. How can a young person learn to appreciate other cultures if he or she doesn’t live among them?”
I’ve already explained this in number 7 – while my public-schooled friends are in school, I’m out living life as everyone else *but* my school-age peers get to live it. All of my friends are from different backgrounds and I love them all dearly – mainly because I’ve been taught to judge people based on their personality and attributes, not their skin color or social rank. In school I found that there was hardly any “toleration” for those who were different than what was popular. (BTW – there’s only one race: the race of man…black, Chinese, Indian etc. aren’t entirely different races.)
“3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially. “
You keep going on about socialization. =) Tell me – when do adults ever spend hours a week in a room with those who are their same age? I spend my time with everyone from the age of eight months to 70-something. I’m already out living my life while my public-schooled friends are being stuffed with knowledge in an unnatural environment! Socialization does *not* mean “hanging out with those of the same age.” Socialization is much more than that – it’s learning how to carry on a conversation, it’s learning how to behave well around others, it’s learning to help the woman on crutches through the door, it’s learning how to comfort a crying child…socialization should be much more than being in the same room with your peers for hours.
“2. Homeschooling parents are arrogant, Part 2. According to Henry Cate, who runs the Why Homeschool blog, many highly educated, high-income parents are “probably people who are a little bit more comfortable in taking risks” in choosing a college or line of work. “The attributes that facilitate that might also facilitate them being more comfortable with home-schooling.”
More comfortable taking risks with their child’s education? Gamble on, I don’t know, the Superbowl, not your child’s future.”
Well, first of all – it’s none of your business what people want to do with their kids’ future. Somehow you think being a teacher gives you a right to tell people how to parent their children – sorry to break it to you, but this isn’t the case. But secondly, every single parent I have *ever* met in my life wants the best for their kids. If they believe that the best is homeschooling, then so be it – they’ll have to take the risk of being ridiculed, called incapable, arrogant, a lunatic, geeky and everything else by people such as you.
1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky.
I have met many homeschoolers. I do admit, there are a few who are the type who wear denim jumpers and never cut their hair, but I never label them with names such as “geek.” I love them for who they are – whether or not they appear “normal.”
This is the most hilarious thing I’ve ever read. If you’re a teacher, no wonder the US educational system is in the mess it’s in, which explains why parents are flocking to homeschooling.
You have a double major in English? Really? You could’ve fooled me. Your arguments are weak; not based on fact, but rather an emotional response. Maybe you should’ve done your homework before posting things as fact.
Do you actually even know anyone who’s been homeschooled? It’s so amazing to me how teachers are so arrogant as to think they are the only ones who can teach. I taught my daughter the alphabet, how to count to 30, how read and write her name by the time she was three. Interesting.
I am an African American, single parent with about 60 college credits. I homeschooled my special needs child for two years during middle school. Oh, the socialization that she got in middle school was basically her being teased because she didn’t wear $200 athletic shoes, because she didn’t speak “ebonics”, and because she was “different”. Her socialization in public school led to my sweet, outgoing, intelligent child having a mental breakdown because of the atmosphere in public school. By the way, I’m not rich. In fact, when I homeschooled my daughter, I had been laid off. I think I made $20,000 that year during freelance work. So much for wealthy homeschooling.
During the two years that I homeschooled her, she blossomed. She actually tested at two grade levels ahead of where she was supposed to be when I put her back in school (she attends a school for children with special needs. No way will I ever put her back in mainstream school. Ever.)
Oh yeah, while we homeschooled, my daughter did extensive research about China and Japan–two countries she plans on visiting someday. She also speaks Spanish. She has friends of various racial, religious and socio-economic groups. She doesn’t base her friendships on what her friends wear or the type of music they listen to, but rather the unique qualities that make her friends special. Totally unlike public school, by the way. I’m sure you’re familiar with the various cliques that are found in any US public school, right?
Wow. You are the exact reason I homeschool. I am perfectly qualified to educate my own children. If you really teach because you care about the education of our children, then you would understand why we homeschool. Why does it piss you off? Worried about your job security? Oh, wait, the NEA will make sure you still get paid.
Jesse wrote: If I had a chance to re-write it knowing that this would be the audience, the piece would have been very, very different.
Okay.
Do it.
Rewrite your original, taking into account what you’ve learned this week.
–Jen
First of all, I would like to say i was homeschool up until my sophomore year in highschool and this article is absolutely despicable.
10. Haha, surprisingly. . .i haven’t heard that one.
9. You last comment and lame attempts at humor disgust me. Does it really matter where a child is learning, if they are learning. Some inner city school probably cannot be in the best of conditions, are you going to start attacking them because their schools are poor? I don’t think so.
8. Wow. I’m not sure where that study got pulled out of, but most homeschool families are not that wealthy, almost the opposite extreme. Maybe the reason students in the public school system are less, as you say, high achieving students is because public schools fail. You don’t get very much one-on-one attention, if any at all.
7. Once again, i’m not sure where you got “God hates homeschooling” in the Bible. I really don’t recall it saying that. Just because people go to school at home doesn’t mean they never leave their house and shut themselves up from the outside world. The mission field is everywhere, even in some people’s on home. If you are agnostic than I am going to ask you not to take it out of context.
6. Do your research honey, there are many different ways to homeschool. there are videos by Bob Jones University that have teachers just, if not more, qualified than you.
5. Umm, okay, way to be greedy.
4. Once again, there is a world outside of homeschooling, just like public school kids have lives outside of school.
3. Well, i am going to give you this garbage, “they still participate in activities with public school kids.” i did when I was homeschooled. Have you ever been homeschooled? If not, then why are you writing about something you really have no clue about. : \
2. I really don’t understand where you get this information from.
1. What? Haha, geeks are everywhere, honey. Have you been to public school? I don’t know, have you been to any school? Hmm. Next time you attack a people group, do your research.
By the way, Mark Twain was homeschooled. So was:
Constitutional Convention Delegates
# Richard Basseti – Governor of Delaware
# William Blount – U.S. Senator
# George Clymer – U.S. Representative
# William Few – U.S. Senator
# Benjamin Franklin – Inventor and Statesman
# Alexander Hamilton – Lawyer and Economist
# William Houston – Lawyer
# William S. Johnson – Columbia College President
# William Livingston – Governor of New Jersey
# James Madison – 4th President of the U.S.
# George Mason – Justice of Virginia County Court
# John Francis Mercer – U.S. Representative
# Charles Pickney III – Governor of S. Carolina
# John Rutledge – Chief Justice U.S. Supreme Court
# Richard D. Spaight – Governor of North Carolina
# George Washington – 1st President of the U.S.
# John Witherspoon – President of Princeton
# George Wythe – Justice of Virginia High Court
Presidents
# John Adams
# John Quincy Adams
# Grover Cleveland
# Jefferson Davis (the only president of the short-lived Confederate States of America)
# James Garfield
# William Henry Harrison
# Andrew Jackson
# Thomas Jefferson
# Abraham Lincoln
# James Madison
# James Polk
# Franklin Delano Roosevelt
# Theodore Roosevelt
# John Tyler
# George Washington
# Woodrow Wilson
Statesmen
# Henry Fountain Ashurst
# William Jennings Bryan
# Winston Churchill
# Henry Clay
# John Dickinson
# Pierre du Pont
# Benjamin Franklin
# Patrick Henry
# William Penn
# Daniel Webster
Military Officers
# John Barry – Senior Navy Officer
# George Rogers Clark – Revolutionary War hero
# Nathanael Greene – Revolutionary War hero
# Nathan Hale – Revolutionary War hero
# Stonewall Jackson – Civil War General
# John Paul Jones – Father of the American Navy
# Robert E. Lee – Civil War General
# Douglas MacArthur – U.S. General
# George Patton – U.S. General
# Matthew Perry – U.S. Naval Officer
# John Pershing – U.S. General
# David Dixon Porter – Civil War Admiral
# Joseph Bradley Varnum – Revolutionary War hero
U.S. Supreme Court Judges
# Charles Evans Hughes
# John Jay
# John Marshall
# John Rutledge
# Sandra Day O’Connor
Religious Leaders
# Joan of Arc
# Dietrich Bonhoeffer
# William Carey
# Jonathan Edwards
# Philipp Melancthon
# Dwight L. Moody
# John Newton
# John Owen
# Hudson Taylor
# John & Charles Wesley
# Brigham Young
Explorers
# William Clark – Lewis & Clark Expedition
# Meriwether Lewis – Lewis & Clark Expedition
# John Wesley Powell – Colorado River Expedition
# Sir Ernest Shackleton – Antarctic Expedition
Scientists
# Wilson A. Bentley – “The Snowflake Man”
# George Washington Carver – agricultural research
# Pierre Curie – discovered radium
# Albert Einstein – theoretical physicist
# Paul Erdos – Hungarian mathematician
# Michael Faraday – electrochemist
# Pierre-Gilles de Gennes – French physicist
# Oliver Heaviside – electromagnetism researcher
# T.H. Huxley – biologist, zoologist, Darwinist
# Ruth Lawrence – mathematician
# Gilbert Newton Lewis – physical chemist
# Ada Lovelace – founder of scientific computing
# Benoit Mandelbrot – pioneer in fractal geometry
# Blaise Pascal – French mathematician
# Joseph Priestley – father of modern chemistry
# Samuel C. C. Ting – Chinese American physicist
# Konstantin Tsiolkovsky – Russian rocket scientist
Inventors
# Alexander Graham Bell – invented the telephone
# John Moses Browning – firearms inventor/designer
# Peter Cooper – built the first modern skyscraper, the first commercial locomotive, and patented the first gelatin dessert which was later named Jell-O
# Thomas Edison – invented the stock ticker, mimeograph, phonograph, and electric light bulb
# Benjamin Franklin – invented the lightning rod
# Elias Howe – invented sewing machine
# William Lear – airplane creator
# Cyrus McCormick – invented grain reaper
# Guglielmo Marconi – developed radio
# Eli Whitney – invented the cotton gin
# Sir Frank Whittle – invented turbo jet engine
# Orville and Wilbur Wright – brothers who built the first successful airplane
Artists
# William Blake – painter, engraver, poet
# John Singleton Copley – American Colonial painter
# Evelyn De Morgan – Pre-Raphaelite painter
# Christian Grew – American Painter
# Donal Hord – San Diego sculptor
# Akiane Kramarik- 10-year-old art and poetry prodigy
# Claude Monet – French Impressionist
# Grandma Moses – American folk artist
# Charles Willson Peale – American portrait artist
# Lu Pinchang – ceramic sculptor
# Leonardo da Vinci – Renaissance artist, sculptor
# Andrew Wyeth – American realist painter
# Jamie Wyeth – American realist painter
Composers
# Johann Sebastian Bach – Baroque
# Irving Berlin – Patriotic
# Anton Bruckner – Symphonies
# Noel Coward – Musicals
# Felix Mendelssohn – Romantic
# Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart – Classical
# John Porcaro – Experimental
# Francis Poulenc – Choral
# John Philip Sousa – “March King”
Writers
# Louisa May Alcott – author of Little Women
# Hans Christian Anderson – fairy tale writer
# Margaret Atwood – Canadian novelist, poet
# Fawn M. Brodie – biographer
# Pearl S. Buck – Nobel prize-winning author
# William F. Buckley, Jr. – conservative writer
# Willa Cather – American novelist
# Agatha Christie – mystery author
# Samuel Clemens – a.k.a. Mark Twain
# Charles Dickens – British novelist
# Robert Frost – Pulitzer Prize-winning poet
# Charlotte Perkins Gilman – early feminist writer
# Alex Haley – African-American novelist
# Sharlot Hall – poet, writer, Arizona historian
# Joshua Harris- pastor and author of I Kissed Dating Goodbye
# Bret Harte – frontier California journalist
# L. Ron Hubbard – science fiction writer
# Helen Keller – blind and deaf author and lecturer
# Rose Wilder Lane – journalist, ghostwriter, daughter of Laura Ingalls Wilder
# C.S. Lewis – Christian writer and apologist
# Amy Lowell – Modernist poet
# Gabriela Mistral – Nobel-prize winning Latin American poet
# Sean O’Casey – Irish author
# Thomas Paine – political writer during the American Revolution, author of Common Sense
# Christopher Paolini – teen author of Eragon
# Isabel Paterson – conservative political author
# Beatrix Potter – author of Peter Rabbit Tales
# Jedediah Purdy – author of For Common Things: Irony, Trust, and Commitment in America Today
# Kenneth Rexroth – poet, translator, critical essayist
# Carl Sandburg – American poet
# George Bernard Shaw – Irish-born playwright
# Mattie J. T. Stepanek – 11-year-old author of Heartsongs
# Rosemary Sutcliff – historical novels for children
# Rabindranath Tagore – Bengali poet, essayist, dramatist, songwriter
# Leo Tolstoy – Russian writer
# Mercy Warren – American Revolution eyewitness
# Phillis Wheatley – African-American poet
# Walt Whitman – American poet
# Laura Ingalls Wilder – children’s book author
# Virginia Woolf – English novelist
Educators
# Amos Bronson Alcott – innovative teacher, father of Louisa May Alcott
# Catharine Beecher – co-founder of the Hartford Female Seminary
# Jill Ker Conway – first woman president of Smith College
# Erik Demaine – associate professor of Computer Science at MIT
# Timothy Dwight – President of Yale University
# William Samuel Johnson – President of Columbia College
# Horace Mann – “Father of the American Common School”
# Charlotte Mason – Founder of Charlotte Mason College of Education
# Joyce Reed – Associate Dean of the College, Brown University
# Fred Terman – President of Stanford University
# Frank Vandiver – President of Texas A&M University
# Booker T. Washington – teacher and founder of Tuskegee Institute
# Noah Webster – “Father of American Christian Education”
# John Witherspoon – President of Princeton University
Medical Practitioners
# Clara Barton – started the Red Cross
# Elizabeth Blackwell – first woman in the U.S. to receive a medical degree
# Florence Nightingale – Nurse
# Susan La Flesche Picotte – first American Indian woman physician
# Albert Schweitzer – Physician
# Mary Walker – Civil War physician; recipient of the Congressional Medal of Honor
Business Entrepreneurs
# Andrew Carnegie – wealthy steel industrialist
# Amadeo Giannini – Bank of America’s founder
# Horace Greeley – New York Tribune founder
# Soichiro Honda – creator of the Honda automobile company
# Peter Kindersley – book illustrator and publisher
# Ray Kroc – founder of McDonald’s fast food restaurant chain
# Jimmy Lai – newspaper publisher; founder of Giordano International
# Dr. Orison Swett Marden – founder, Success magazine
# Adolph Ochs – New York Times founder
# Joseph Pulitzer – newspaper publisher; established Pulitzer Prize
# Colonel Harland Sanders – started Kentucky Fried Chicken
# Dave Thomas – founder of the Wendy’s restaurant chain
Performing Artists (Actors and Musicians)
# Alan Alda – actor, screenwriter, producer
# Louis Armstrong – king of jazz
# BarlowGirl – Lauren, Alyssa, and Rebecca Barlow
# Spencer Breslin – actor
# Chris Brown – R&B singer, dancer, actor
# The 5 Browns – five siblings who play classical music on five grand pianos
# Aaron Carter – Grammy Award-winning singer/songwriter
# Charlie Chaplin – actor
# Cherryholmes – Bluegrass family band
# Erika Christensen – actress
# Hilary Duff – actress, singer
# Dakota Fanning – actress
# Whoopi Goldberg – actress
# Alexander Gould – actor, voice of Nemo in Finding Nemo
# Hilary Hahn – classical violin virtuoso
# Hanson – sibling singing group
# Toby Hemingway – British actor known for his role as Reid Garwin in “The Covenant”
# Jennifer Love Hewitt – actress
# Hume brothers – Jon, Peter, and Dann of the Evermore alternative rock band from New Zealand
# Tiffany Jo – Arizona yodeling star
# Jonas Brothers – Kevin, Joe, and Nick
# Nicole Jung – member of Korean girl group KARA
# Josh Layne – harp musician
# Lindsay Lohan – actress and singer
# Scott MacIntyre – visually impaired pianist
# Pat McMahon – television personality
# Jena Malone – actress
# Yehudi Menuhin – child prodigy violinist
# Alyson “Aly” Michalka and Amanda Joy “AJ” Michalka – sister singing duo and actresses
# Moffatts – Canadian version of Hanson
# Trevor Morgan – American actor
# Frankie Muniz – actor
# Hayden Panettiere – actress best known for her role as Claire Bennet in Heroes and in “Remember the Titans”
# Adam Paskowitz – lead singer, The Flys
# LeAnne Rimes – teen-prodigy country music star
# Rebecca St. James – contemporary Christian recording artist
# Lindsey Shaw – actress known for her role as Jennifer Mosely on “Ned’s Declassified School Survival Guide”
# Jordin Sparks – singer, actress, model and American Idol winner
# Kristen Stewart – actress
# Jeremy Sumpter – actor
# Raven Symone – actress and singer best known for her role on “That’s So Raven”
# Maria von Trapp – one of the Von Trapp Family Singers, the third child of Captain von Trapp
# Sofia Vassilieva – actress
# Kaitlyn Weaver – ice dancer
# Devon Werkheiser – actor known for the role Ned Bigby on “Ned’s Declassified School Survival Guide”
# Elijah Wood – actor best known as Frodo in the The Lord of the Rings
# Evan Rachel Wood – actress
Athletes
# Mike Beasley – basketball player
# Tanith Belbin – figure skating champion
# David Boudia – Olympic diver
# Chad Compton – surfer
# Alexa Glatch – tennis player
# Katie Hoff – Olympic swimmer
# Madison and Keiffer Hubbell – sibling ice dancers
# Todd Lodwick – U.S. ski team member
# Tamara McKinney – World Cup skier
# Bode Miller – American alpine skier
# Asia Muhammed – tennis player
# Carly Patterson – Olympic gymnast
# Ariel Rittenhouse – Olympic diver
# Maria Sharapova – tennis player
# Shayna Syken – figure skater
# Jason Taylor – NFL football player
# Timothy “Tim” Tebow – football player, Heisman Trophy winner
# Sam Warren – basketball player
# Venus and Serena Williams – tennis star sisters
Others
# Abigail Adams – wife of John Adams; mother of John Quincy Adams
# Ansel Adams – photographer
# Susan B. Anthony – women’s rights leader
# John James Audubon – ornithologist and artist
# Alyssa Buecker – director, Milbo Productions
# John Burroughs – naturalist
# Jennie Chancey – historical costumer
# Davy Crockett – frontiersman
# Edward Curtis – photographer
# Robin Lee Graham – first teenager to sail alone around the world
# Alex and Brett Harris – twin teen writers and conference speakers for “The Rebelution,” a Christian ministry/youth organization
# Eric Hoffer – social philosopher
# Sam Houston – lawyer; first leader of Texas
# Abraham Kuyper – Dutch politician, journalist
# Mary Leakey – fossil hunter
# Charles Fletcher Lummis – journalist, historian, photographer, founder of the Southwest Society
# Harriet Martineau – first woman sociologist
# Margaret Mead – cultural anthropologist
# John Stuart Mill – free-market Economist
# Charles Louis Montesquieu – philosopher
# John Muir – naturalist
# Raymond Parks – Civil Rights activist, husband of Rosa Parks
# Sofia, Susan, and Judit Polgar – chess masters
# Bill Ridell – Newspaperman
# Will Rogers – Humorist
# Eleanor Roosevelt – wife of Franklin D. Roosevelt
# Bertrand Russell – Logician
# Drew Ryun – co-founder of Generation Joshua, director of Jim Ryun Running Camp
# Ned Ryun – co-founder of Generation Joshua, president of American Majority
# Deborah Sampson – female soldier in the American Revolution
# Emerson Spartz – 12-year-old internet entrepreneur (MuggleNet)
# Herbert Spencer – philosopher, sociologist
# Gloria Steinem – founder of Ms. magazine
# Zac Sunderland – youngest person to sail alone around the world at age 17
# Timmy Teepell – chief of staff for Governor Bobby Jindal of Louisiana
# Lester Frank Ward – Father of American Sociology
# Martha Washington – wife of George Washington
# Frances E. C. Willard – educator, temperance leader, and suffragist
# Frank Lloyd Wright – architect
# John Lloyd Wright – architect, toy designer, inventor of Lincoln Logs
# Sho Yano – gifted child prodigy
# Elijah ben Solomon Zalman – Jewish scholar
FAMOUS HOMESCHOOL PARENTS
# Abigail Adams – wife of John Adams; mother of John Quincy Adams
# Todd Akin – U.S. Congressman (MO)
# David Albert – speaker and author of And the Skylark Sings with Me
# Amos Bronson Alcott – innovative teacher, father of Louisa May Alcott
# Garth Brooks – country music singer
# Michael Card – contemporary Christian songwriter
# Duane G. Carey – NASA astronaut
# Geoff Davis – U.S. Congressman (KY)
# Mike Farris – lawyer and co-founder of Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA)
# Robert Frost – Pulitzer Prize-winning poet
# David Guterson – educator and author of Snow Falling on Cedars
# Kimberly Hahn – Catholic apologist and author
# Gregg and Sono Harris – pioneers in the modern Christian homeschooling movement
# Barbara Howe – Libertarian activist
# Eric Jackson – whitewater paddler
# Stephen Kendrick – pastor, movie producer (Facing the Giants, Fireproof)
# Christopher Klicka – attorney and Senior Counsel, Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA)
# Robert E. Lee – Civil War General
# Len Munsil – attorney, President of The Center for Arizona Policy (CAP), and gubernatorial candidate
# Chuck Norris – actor, author, martial artist
# Paul Overstreet – musician, songwriter
# Jada Pinkett – actress, wife of Will Smith
# Kelly Preston – actress, wife of John Travolta
# Jim Ryun – Olympian runner, Kansas congressman
# Rick Santorum – U.S. Senator from Pennsylvania
# Mike Smith – lawyer and co-founder of Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA)
# Will Smith – actor
# R.C. Sproul, Jr. – pastor, author of When You Rise Up: A Covenantal Approach to Homeschooling
# Bob and Pam Tebow – founders of the Bob Tebow Evangelistic Association
# Stefan von Trapp – grandson of Captain von Trapp from The Sound of Music
# John Travolta – actor, pilot
# Darrell Waltrip – NASCAR racer
# Lisa Whelchel – former actress, “The Facts of Life”, now a pastor’s wife and author
# Laura Ingalls Wilder – children’s book author
WOW! It sounds like you are a little jealous that the state will not be giving you money for my children. I guess it is too bad that I care about the type of enviornment that my child is raised and educated in more than I care about you getting your paycheck. I am now, more grateful than ever that my children are not exposed to such a negative role model.
10. A silly way of poking fun at fellow students is a basis on which to choose a method of education? Talk about social ineptitude.
9. Is he really so stupid that he can’t think of a way to provide a good learning environment in a house? I don’t know WHAT to “talk about” with this one…
8. Selfish? Spending time and money to provide a good education for your child is selfish? Is it impossible to make friends and support them outside of school? Talk about not caring for children’s best interests.
7. Who else has noticed that he keeps saying “take them out of school”, as if they belonged to the public school in the first place and parents are taking them away?
Anyways, I find it astounding that he thinks being a student of a public school is the best way to evangelize. He excludes every other part of life. Talk about a closed mind.
6. According to #8, are homeschooling parents not the wealthy, educated elitists with high-achieving children? Is he really so ignorant that he conceives of homeschooling as an attempt by parents to spoonfeed their children every single fact? Talk about ignorance.
5. It’s okay, really, idiots who can’t even write a grammatically corect sentence have a tendency to hold an inexplicabe grudge against people who are smarter. People also tend to be mad when they know that they’re wrong, but refuse to believe it. Talk about arrogance.
4. In this oh-so-diverse world, who is more intolerant: those who are conveniently assigned to an artificially constructed social environment with a hand-picked group of people in the same age range, brainwashed with the same curriculum all easily provided by the same people, or those who do not constrain themselves to such an artificial handicap that looks nothing at all like the real world? Does he really think that assembling a group of chosen peers and training them all to rely on exactly the same system of education is the answer to the need for tolerance? Talk about brainwashing.
3. Way to go, inflating a huge straw man and equating with it people with whom he disagrees, even though he knows NOTHING about them. Talk about bigotry.
2. And it’s not a gamble to send children to public school? Has he READ the news? Talk about feeling too comfortable with a risky system.
1. Yes. I have met homeschoolers. I don’t make assumptions about their character without actually getting to know them. I don’t jump on the let’s-hate-people-who-aren’t-as-good-at-socializing-as-we-want-them-to-be bandwagon. Talk about inolerance.
What baffles me is how he can lump “intolerance” with homeschooling and brand the product of public education as “tolerance”, yet himself be so blatantly intolerant of homeschoolers. Talk about hypocrisy.
I cannot believe the arrogance fuming up like the smell of old garbage from your article. Talk about stereotyping! Unless you have talked to a great many home school families, which I doubt you have, you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
First of all, to even call a homeschooler a geeky kid, is part of the nasty prejudices that comes from other kids and where do we learn all of these charming terms? Public school! At least being taught in the home, children are taught tolerance for other human beings and not to judge and condemn with out knowing the facts.
Second, not all homeschoolers are taught by a “self-aggrandizing, society-phobic mother” or father, how sexist of you to forget them.
Maybe a parent saw something lacking in the only public school choice available for their children and decided to take the responsibility themselves for ensuring a decent education for their children. Maybe they do not have degrees in education or specialized subjects like biology or grammar, but maybe they have been educated in something else. Maybe they had good careers and a social life and friends outside of the home, but when the situation appeared before them that the children whom they brought into the world and are responsible for needed them, maybe they stepped up. Maybe they put their life to the side and said ” my child needs me to be there for them now, it’s not all about me”.
Third, it is really none of your or anyone else’s business how or if the home schooled children get socialization. They are not your children so butt out!
Fourth, if the only education you got was in the classroom of a public school, I really feel sorry for you, and obviously explains your lack of tolerance for others different than yourself. The world should be everyone’s classroom whether you are in school or not. There is much more to life and the world we live in, that what is between the pages of a book or written on a chalkboard.
And finally, your reference to God is ridiculous! God gave us our children and entrusted us to take care of and teach them to be a good person and an asset to the world. That is why alot of us homeschool. There is no arrogance there. Try being a parent. There is love, humility, always second guessing yourself, but arrogance? That is a luxury left to the people who live in a classroom and tell others how to live.
Rhonda Walker-Savannah,GA
Credentials, public school teachers get to start out their career with them.
I have thought about credentials a good bit over my lifetime. I come from a background in illustration where I learned that credentials can sometimes get your foot in the door, but it is talent and passion that make the difference between starving or succeeding in a field where the market is open and competition is a normal part of the process. The job goes to the one with skill, the paper (degree) means nothing in the end. I have seen an equal number of successful ‘self-taught’ illustrators as ones that earned a degree.
When I first started out in home schooling sixteen years ago, I could have fretted about not having credentials, but I had learned something from the freelance illustration world. It’s not the paper. It is what you are able to produce that matters. You do not need a piece of paper to have dedication, the will to be the best at something that you can possibly be, and enough grit inside to make it through the tough days so that you don’t throw your hands up and quit (yes, home school parents have frustrating days too).
Many home school parents do not start this trek with a fist full of credentials, but they sure do end their paths with some. Their credentials walk and talk and are the truest form of credentials when it comes to education – our kids. We don’t really need to prove anything to you, despite your stereotypes, because we have more than artificial anecdotes. We can look to our own community to see ‘first hand’ that our graduates, as a whole, lead healthy, productive, and happy lives.
In education, when it comes to credentials, it isn’t what you start with, it is what you finish with that matters.
I believe that your “#5″ is the main reason for your whole post. I mean, homeschooling is a personal affront to you and yours. It really pisses you off that you spent a lot of money and time at school to learn how to do what we do better. The bottom line is that homeschoolers are better educated, better emotionally adjusted, have more self-confidence, self-esteem, and self-sufficiency, and actually spend their lives out in “the real world” – not a government-run building for 35 hours a week where the original purpose in this country was to create a country of obedient workers who lack much free-thinking or original thought. This system has failed over and over. Every year or 2 there are new curricula, new models to follow, and new cuts to make. The top colleges in this country actively seek out the homeschooled students. You can look that up.
Homeschoolers are even better socialized. I don’t know what geeks you tend to seek out to prove your point, but my kids (and most other homeschoolers I know) have tons of friends both schooled and homeschooled and are constantly out with them. They’re not weird, geeky, antisocial, or negatively different in any way (the positive differences though are numerous). Both of my homeschooled children have opened some clouded eyes to the real homeschool world and helped get rid of the sterotype propaganda BS people like you put forth.
Have you read the newspapers lately? There are way more emotionally damaging, criminal, and/or perverted teachers out there than homeschooling moms. (and no, that has nothing to do with why we homeschool, but I figure if you want to start stereotyping…)
First off, i’m homeschooled, oh boy, BIG BAD HOMESCHOOLER! I’m 16, and have a social life, but i do my school, and i learn. But, i also go out on the weekends, have fun with friends, go to concerts, coffee shops, and so on. On facebook, i have 600 friends, myspace, 800, and on my phone, i have over 400 numbers. Socially inapt? Psh, you’re wrong.
I used to go to public school, and that crap about not interacting with other cultures is ridiculous. Everytime i was in school, it was segregated, whites with whites, blacks with blacks and mexicans with mexicans. Do you honestly think they ‘appreciate’ other cultures? Probably not.
“3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. Socialization in our grand multi-cultural experiment we call America is a process that takes more than an hour a day, a few times a week. Homeschooling, undoubtedly, leaves the child unprepared socially. ”
I still laughed at this a lot, i played baseball, football, and i am socially unprepared?! You’re like the kids that ask me how i meet other people, WE ARE STILL HUMAN. I talk, eat, breathe like you, maybe even better then you.
All you seem to care about is the fact that more people are/want to be homeschooled, and you may be out of a job. I really couldn’t care less after reading this, so maybe YOU are the one is selfish, eh?
need i say more?
YEAH!
“10. “You were totally home schooled” is an insult college kids use when mocking the geeky kid in the dorm (whether or not the offender was home schooled or not). And… say what you will… but it doesn’t feel nice to be considered an outsider, a natural outcropping of being homeschooled.”
I could walk into the nearest school right now, and except for the 300 people i already know there, no one would think i was homeschooled.
Man, this is funny, i think you made my day.
Pingback: The Case Against Homeschooling | Mommy Is Green
I could go through your article point by point to disagree with pretty much everything you’ve said, but I don’t actually think it will accomplish much.
That said, most teachers I know did everything they could to keep students from socializing in class. So you’re counting socialization as an hour a day that kids spend together? I’m pretty sure my daughter will be able to enjoy an hour a day with kids her own age (who aren’t related).
And poor school systems piss me off. Bad teachers are a whole different level of evil, but I’ll admit, truly bad teachers are few and far between. I do know, however, that my local schools all basically suck if you take the standardized test route to measure… and I resent the implication that as a loving and college educated adult, I can’t possibly be smart enough to do what’s best for my child if it isn’t the same choice you would make.
First of all, I’d like to say, “Wow.” Second of all, I’d like to say, “Wow.” What do you do in your spare time, other than bash other forms of teaching that aren’t your own? I believe Mimi summed it up nicely, when she said “This article is fabulous example of bigotry, bile, spite, anti-intellectualism, logical incoherence, and incapacity to thought caused by the mindless embrace of doctrine. It is, in fact, a perfect representation of exactly why it is that we do homeschool.”
I really can’t add anything more to that.
Wow, that’s hilarious!
I loved how the author spoke of her many degrees in English and then in the next sentence said, “For real!”
Thanks for brightening my day. I am truly thankful that we have the ability to homeschool. I can’t imagine my children being in a classroom with someone as prejudiced as you.
I have crafted a complete response on my blog:
http://snurl.com/jinwm
Peace and Grace,
Greg
Read my comments on Why Is Homeschooling Such a “Hot” Topic on: http://hilltophomeschool.wordpress.com/
My greatest recommendation to you is that you get off your computer and meet as many homeschooling families as you can.
After you’ve done that I might be able to take you seriously.
See my comments on “Why Homeschooling is Such a ‘Hot’ Topic” on my blog: http://hilltophomeschool.wordpress.com/
Game’s up, Jesse.
You used the bully pulpit to make fun of children, and you did it as a so-called teaching professional.
I’d suggest you issue a sincere, unqualified apology.
I dont’ have time to do your article justice. But your “geek” comments bring to mind the time I was late to pick up my girls who were about 8 from dance. Another mom met with with an open-mouth…”I just had an adult conversation with your daughter!”. But, now at 19 she can have an even more in-depth conversation, then turn around and play “doggy” with her baby brother.
Sounds like she’s well rounded to me. Truth is, they are both often frustrated after spending more than a few hours with “peers” from public school. They come home bemoaning the fact that they never did talk about anything that really mattered, and they are weary of hearing about TV, guys or clothes.
You don’t get to interact in real life situations when you spend most of your time in a classroom. At what other time in your life do you spend most of your time with people your age. I prefer my 5 year old learns to be conscientious, giving, and helpful…not generally the characteristics of twenty 5 year olds in the same room!
In fact, schools spend alot of time and money trying to simulate real life.
I am sure you are doing a great job. Many home educators would appreciate your expertise. Most of our materials are not written by folks witha third grade education.
One thing you missed…most homeschoolers are great at finding tutors, mentors, on-line classes etc for things they are not proficient in!
Some more food for thought.
As a former teacher myself, I’m surprised by your lack of open-mindedness in “The case against homeschooling” and by the lack of logic in it.
You are trying to convince somebody not to do something because 1)they will be insulted, 2)education happens alongside eating and entertainment, 3)it’s selfish, 4)it isn’t consistent with Christian beliefs (of making disciples), 5)it makes other people mad, 6)it could breed intolerance, 7)some parents who home-school their kids are highly educated and have high incomes, and 8)the kids will be geeky.
This is a little silly, don’t you think? Any of these things can happen in a public school any given day. Half of these things could happen when I go out shopping any given day. I also left out 2 points; one was the point of socialization which I think is a good one. But you have to admit most home-schooling parents let there kids be around other people more than once a week for an hour. If not, I heartily agree, that is a sad thing. And “you think you can teach English as well as me?”–is that grammatical?
I have several reasons why after having taught in a public school for years, I will not be sending my kids to one 1)teachers are overworked, underpaid, and overstressed, and that diminishes the quality of the instruction more than anyone would wish, 2)teachers are tolerant–of SOME children and some beliefs–evangelical Christianity not being one of them (most of the time). For example I could teach what a book said about evolution, even if those views had been proven a hoax, but I could not bring up creationism unless students asked about it. That’s biased. 3)I don’t agree with the values. No harm in exposing kids to other cultures or views–just don’t think it’s healthy for a respected figure to tell my child at the tender age of 5 that Suzy has two mommies and that’s a wonderful thing. Or that his/her great grandfather was a monkey, which is just not true. You quoted one verse so I’ll close with another one that means a lot to parents, “Train your child in the way he should go, and when he grows old he will not depart from it.”
Wow. You say you have all these degrees, but then you dont prove to be very smart or mature with how you argue.
I have a question, has there ever been a shooting at a homeschool event? Not that I know of.
Yet there are many times where shootings and killings have occured at public schools.
I used to go to public school, it was rediculous. The teachers didnt care about you, most kids were mean, there were drugs, sex, fights, etc., and this was in elementry school.
I homeschool now, and I get to do lots of socal things. All the homeschoolers in my area get together for weekly, monthly and yearly events. And on the side we do other things…actually..I get to do things with friends more often now that I homeschool.
I just went to a homeschool Prom, and my brother whent to a public school prom with his girlfriend (see, we socalize with public school kids, its not like we just stay at home all day), anyways…the public school prom was just all rap music with bad lyrics and everyone was practically having sex on the dance floor. Where as the homeschool prom was decent music and normal dancing.
I have much more I could say and argue…but im not going to waist my time, cause it probably wont change your mind anyways…I get a feeling you are too stupid to get it.
But if you want to argue or want more…answrs or whatever from me..go ahead and ask.
Mr.olebuns@gmail.com
9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope).
You think public school is old-fashioned?
Kids were being taught in their homes and on their land way before schools were ever invented.
learn some history before making a statement about something.
I’m pretty sure I DID teach my children english better than you could have done, because I taught them that the possessive apostrophe in a singular noun comes BEFORE the s, not after, as you have it. (a student ‘ s classroom, not a students’ classroom)
FYI –
Here’s what my week looked like. I finished my ninth grade year a few months early, so this certainly doesn’t include classes, time for schoolwork, etc.
Sunday: Arrived at church at 7:00 to rehearse for the morning’s worship service – I play piano in the worship band. 12:00 – departed from my youth group room (full of teenagers of diverse backgrounds, types of schooling, financial situations, skin types) and go to my class on Theology. 1:00 – Left class with a friend to go meet up with another group of eight friends (including one dear older woman who was mentally disabled by a stroke and a little boy with Down’s syndrome) to see a movie.
Monday: Little sister went to a friend’s for a sleepover – I spent the day in the company of my mom…something I enjoy. In the evening I went to a Bible study with other girls from my church.
Tuesday – My little sister returned from her friend’s house and then went to the library with my mom and a group of friends. I stayed at home to focus on my various musical hobbies. At night I went to my church’s youth group with the same diverse teenagers I talked about before.
Wednesday – (Usually we go to the local Farmer’s Market, but we didn’t this week) Went to lunch with friends who were my classmates in the French class I took last year. 12:00 – Departed from the French restaurant and drove to homeschool band program. I’m at band from 12:30-5:00 playing saxophone and helping kids learn music. The variety of people there is huge – children of all ages…I know there are at least two babies who are there all the way up to college kids and the parents hang out as well. I have Asian friends, black friends, Mexican friends, mixed friends, atheist friends, Catholic friends, Jewish friends, Messianic Jewish friends….and that’s only a small portion of my friends. I go home at 5, eat a quick dinner and go to worship band practice around 6:30 and stay until around 8.
Thursday – Visited some friends who have severe allergies, which is always an experience because we get to eat the interesting alternative foods that they eat. Went out for frozen yogurt for the fun of it with my mom and sister.
Friday – Some of my sister’s friends came over (along with their mom who discussed various things with my mom and me); we went to the park for three or four hours. They stay for dinner. (Also – twice a month on Fridays the homeschool group my family belongs to gets together for field trips and events)
Saturday – We’re going to a birthday party in Arrowhead tomorrow.
Sunday – Same church schedule, Theology class, going to a retirement home to lead a worship service there, going to perform with the homeschool band at a street fair.
Last week was even more socially enriching – I even went to a party. :O I am no society-phobic jailbird child who is smothered by my mother.
Your naked contempt for “geeks” is a perfect indicator of the anti-intellectual atmosphere so commonly found in public schools, one of a long list of factors in my decision to homeschool my children. Of course, I had always considered it an attitude of the students, imagine my dismay to see it espoused by a teacher as well.
Jesse…my response to your rant has picked up a lot of traffic the past few days. Check it out:
http://www.adadfirst.com/2009/06/in-response-to-case-against.html
This is a bit long, and a bit snarky, but I think it may do a good job of explaining how we homeschoolers feel when confronted by “everyone else.” It certainly explains how I feel.
The Bitter Homeschooler’s Wish List
By Deborah Markus, from Secular Homeschooling, Issue #1, Fall 2007
1. Please stop asking us if it’s legal. If it is — and it is — it’s insulting to imply that we’re criminals. And if we were criminals, would we admit it?
2. Learn what the words “socialize” and “socialization” mean, and use the one you really mean instead of mixing them up the way you do now. Socializing means hanging out with other people for fun. Socialization means having acquired the skills necessary to do so successfully and pleasantly. If you’re talking to me and my kids, that means that we do in fact go outside now and then to visit the other human beings on the planet, and you can safely assume that we’ve got a decent grasp of both concepts.
3. Quit interrupting my kid at her dance lesson, scout meeting, choir practice, baseball game, art class, field trip, park day, music class, 4H club, or soccer lesson to ask her if as a homeschooler she ever gets to socialize.
4. Don’t assume that every homeschooler you meet is homeschooling for the same reasons and in the same way as that one homeschooler you know.
5. If that homeschooler you know is actually someone you saw on TV, either on the news or on a “reality” show, the above goes double.
6. Please stop telling us horror stories about the homeschoolers you know, know of, or think you might know who ruined their lives by homeschooling. You’re probably the same little bluebird of happiness whose hobby is running up to pregnant women and inducing premature labor by telling them every ghastly birth story you’ve ever heard. We all hate you, so please go away.
7. We don’t look horrified and start quizzing your kids when we hear they’re in public school. Please stop drilling our children like potential oil fields to see if we’re doing what you consider an adequate job of homeschooling.
8. Stop assuming all homeschoolers are religious.
9. Stop assuming that if we’re religious, we must be homeschooling for religious reasons.
10. We didn’t go through all the reading, learning, thinking, weighing of options, experimenting, and worrying that goes into homeschooling just to annoy you. Really. This was a deeply personal decision, tailored to the specifics of our family. Stop taking the bare fact of our being homeschoolers as either an affront or a judgment about your own educational decisions.
11. Please stop questioning my competency and demanding to see my credentials. I didn’t have to complete a course in catering to successfully cook dinner for my family; I don’t need a degree in teaching to educate my children. If spending at least twelve years in the kind of chew-it-up-and-spit-it-out educational facility we call public school left me with so little information in my memory banks that I can’t teach the basics of an elementary education to my nearest and dearest, maybe there’s a reason I’m so reluctant to send my child to school.
12. If my kid’s only six and you ask me with a straight face how I can possibly teach him what he’d learn in school, please understand that you’re calling me an idiot. Don’t act shocked if I decide to respond in kind.
13. Stop assuming that because the word “home” is right there in “homeschool,” we never leave the house. We’re the ones who go to the amusement parks, museums, and zoos in the middle of the week and in the off-season and laugh at you because you have to go on weekends and holidays when it’s crowded and icky.
14. Stop assuming that because the word “school” is right there in homeschool, we must sit around at a desk for six or eight hours every day, just like your kid does. Even if we’re into the “school” side of education — and many of us prefer a more organic approach — we can burn through a lot of material a lot more efficiently, because we don’t have to gear our lessons to the lowest common denominator.
15. Stop asking, “But what about the Prom?” Even if the idea that my kid might not be able to indulge in a night of over-hyped, over-priced revelry was enough to break my heart, plenty of kids who do go to school don’t get to go to the Prom. For all you know, I’m one of them. I might still be bitter about it. So go be shallow somewhere else.
16. Don’t ask my kid if she wouldn’t rather go to school unless you don’t mind if I ask your kid if he wouldn’t rather stay home and get some sleep now and then.
17. Stop saying, “Oh, I could never homeschool!” Even if you think it’s some kind of compliment, it sounds more like you’re horrified. One of these days, I won’t bother disagreeing with you any more.
18. If you can remember anything from chemistry or calculus class, you’re allowed to ask how we’ll teach these subjects to our kids. If you can’t, thank you for the reassurance that we couldn’t possibly do a worse job than your teachers did, and might even do a better one.
19. Stop asking about how hard it must be to be my child’s teacher as well as her parent. I don’t see much difference between bossing my kid around academically and bossing him around the way I do about everything else.
20. Stop saying that my kid is shy, outgoing, aggressive, anxious, quiet, boisterous, argumentative, pouty, fidgety, chatty, whiny, or loud because he’s homeschooled. It’s not fair that all the kids who go to school can be as annoying as they want to without being branded as representative of anything but childhood.
21. Quit assuming that my kid must be some kind of prodigy because she’s homeschooled.
22. Quit assuming that I must be some kind of prodigy because I homeschool my kids.
23. Quit assuming that I must be some kind of saint because I homeschool my kids.
24. Stop talking about all the great childhood memories my kids won’t get because they don’t go to school, unless you want me to start asking about all the not-so-great childhood memories you have because you went to school.
25. Here’s a thought: If you can’t say something nice about homeschooling, shut up!
This is disgusting! The fact that an Agnostic even brings up the Christian view point is just wrong. I’m sorry, but just because a child is not wasting 6 hours a day in a class of 30 other students getting a half rate education does not mean that they are not witnessing. I look at this list of a reason Why to home school!
A public school mom!
All I have to say is- I’m a Latina that was homeschooled. I’m FAR from geeky. I lead, or teach 3 different groups of my peers, that were not homeschooled. They were all too afraid to take the leadership rolls. I have tons of friends of all ages, races, ect… So in short, this woman has NO idea what she is talking about. She bases everything on sterio types, instead of really doing her research.
I have to disagree with you. I am sure that number 5 is totally accurate for you, but that is not the case for all teachers. Some of us are former teachers who saw a flawed system that we did not want our children to be a part of. Yes, there are weirdos that homeschool. There are more weirdos who support the public school system.
It is funny that you mention homeschooling is selfish. Since homeschooling I have no time for myself. There is no such thing as as a free period for homeschool teachers. Nor is there a such thing as calling in sick. My kids are able to do things for others that they were not able to do when being public schooled. They can visit nursing homes, they can work with charities, they are there if someone in the house is sick and can help take care of them. Being outside of school allows them to look out for others rather than looking out for themselves only.
In schools (around here) academics are not a top priority. Sports rule. If a kid is not an athlete, they are ridiculed. If a kid is fat they are ridiculed. If they are too skinny they are ridiculed. If they do not dress a certain way they are ridiculed. The list could on.
I’m a 16 year old homeschooled student and I’m a junior in highschool and going to college as well. I’ve been homeschooled since first grade. Honestly, this whole article shouldn’t be taken seriously at all. You sound like you’ve never met a homeschooled kid in your whole life! You’ve grouped us all together and that is insulting in it’s self. There are homeschoolers that dress a more modestly. Sorry they don’t look like the sluts or gangsters in schools and they’re comfortable with the way they look. As for “God hates homeschoolers”, you have no idea how much that made me laugh! Tell me, was there public schools back in the stone age? Romen times? middle ages? No, parents taught their children. Only the rich would hire a teacher.
I would make this longer, but I’m so tired of people picking at us. I’ve been teased so much about being homeschooled. But I can pick on public schoolers as well. I’m much much MUCH more ready for the world then they are. My GPA is 4.0 and I manage to hang out with PUBLIC SCHOOLED friends and work part time as a life guard.
Oh and one last thing “5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.)” That pisses me off. I wouldn’t want a stupid teacher like you.
Katie
So, you know yeah I was angry about it blah blah blah. But really what made you so angry that you had to actually write a rant. Don’t you something better to do? Cause really you weren’t going to get anything out of this like ‘good job homeschoolers are racist’ this was made just to get us mad and because you just want your voice to be heard. Personally I think you should think before you speak. That’s something I have learned from being homeschooled.
Pingback: Top Posts « WordPress.com
First off, who are you to critcize how other people raise their kids? And to say God hates home schooling, what the hell is that about? It’s teachers like you that make school a living hell because you throw around how you went to college and have a masters in this and that. No one cares. You think you’re so much better then everyone because you’re a teacher. I dont know about you, but when i was in school I didn’t focus. I thought about what I was going to do after school and whose paper I was going to cheat off of. Also, most teachers don’t do any thing. They hand out work sheets. At homeschool the kids get more attention and no one knows kids better than their parents. Just because there aren’t other kids there doesn’t mean it teaches intolerance. Have you seen the size of some of the families that homeschool?
All this arguing.
Homeschooling. Public School. When we choose one opportunity for our children, undoubtedly they will miss out on something they would have experienced or learned had we chosen a different path for them. Then, of course, there comes a point when they have to choose a path for themselves.
I think the question to ask is this: Is the path my child is currently on adequately preparing him/her to be a respectful, responsible, fully educated, confident, independent member of society?
Maybe a more important question is this: Do I teach my child values such as respect, responsibility, kindness, dependability, diligence, honesty, etc… regardless of where my child learns reading, writing, spelling, math, science, social studies, and the arts? Believe it or not, teaching your child these character traits is actually more important than where he/she attends school (at least in my opinion).
Parents are educator #1! No doubt about it. Whether a child attends homeschool, public school, or private school a great deal of what he/she learns about personal behaviors and social behaviors is learned from parents and siblings. Parents also provide some form of motivation for learning. If parents show their child education is valued in their family, the child is more likely to give his/her best to acquiring a good education and cooperating to receive it -whether it’s an education acquired at home or school. If parents blow off education and/or put down educators, children learn to do the same.
I received a public education in the core subjects. I also learned related concepts at home, on the farm, with my parents. My parents also educated me in the values I mentioned earlier. Education occurs all around us. The homeschooled child gets an education at home and when he/she steps out of the home. The child going to public school also gets an education at home and an education at school. Education does not start and stop in one place. And it is possible to shelter children, whether they go to public school or are homeschooled. Different parents choose to shelter their children from different things – a wise choice in my opinion, as long as worldly/mature items are introduced at appropriate developmental times.
I am a public school educator. I have taught first and fourth grades. I have taught in a rural setting and an urban setting. I have to tell you that most of the kids I have come across are wonderful! Some people make it sound as though almost all children in every public school are trafficking drugs, cursing every other word, and basically corrupting one another. I am telling you that is not the case in every community and school. It has not been the case in the communities I’ve lived in. I believe family and community are key in how a child turns out. The values families, communities, and teachers surround a child with play a big part in how he/she turns out. I have seen children in my classes set good examples for one another and encourage one another in positive character traits. In every class I’ve had in the last 5 years, there are children who have been taught to be (and want to be) readily kind, respectful, and responsible. Then there are children who struggle with this because respect and responsibility are required at school, but aren’t required at home. There are also children who feel safer or more comfortable at school, than they do at home. Please do not put down all public educations. Not all schools are having the struggles some of you may have come across. Not all teachers are like that teacher youor your child may have disliked.
I can understand parents wanting to remove their children from a school that does not feel safe or a school that does not seem to be educating their child to the level they can attain. Or perhaps the school curriculum is constantly conflicting with a family’s religious viewpoints and it’s just too much.
I think parents have a responsibility to make sure they are homeschooling their child to the same or higher standard the child would be taught in public schools and that they are homeschooling for a purposeful reason.
It’s my opinion that some parents do not have the skills, resources, time, or motivation to adequately homeschool their child. (My parents wouldn’t have had it!) Being a teacher is a huge responsibility, as some of you have found out. I also believe there is a possibility that some parents (not all) are homeschooling their children because of unnessary fears or because they are having trouble letting go of their children. I hope this is not the case for many. I hope that if you are homeschooling your child you are doing it with the same diligence and care I use every day in my classroom. I believe it is possible, and I believe that there are many parents out there who are being successful. Again though, I also know that there public schools out there, that are also successful in helping children learn and grow in academics and character – so long as their parents expect positive character traits at home as well.
Homeschool. Public school. In both situations there is the possibility a child can thrive. It’s up to parents to be sure whichever education their child receives, it is providing him/her with what is needed to encourage that person to be a respectful, responsible member of society.
http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/8080/89qov83te2.gif
Wow. “Minorities” want rights to do what they want, and have “equality”. Well why is everyone so up in arms about a choice parents have made to homeschool THEIR children (not yours). If I made comments about the black/latino/gay/(any other group) they way you just listed against homeschoolers I would be called racist. But you feel it acceptable to publicly insult homeschoolers. Just like the choices everyone else makes every day with their children, parents have made the decision to do what THEY think best for THEIR children and homeschool them. Just like you get to choose where your children go to school. I would hate to have those Parental rights taken away. Freedom of Choice is a good thing. It shouldn’t just be for selected choices that you think okay.
I’m thankful for my choice as a parent to educate my child, and raise my child the way I see fit. Not the way you or the government sees fit.
Good luck out there.
So…this article denotes that you, the author have only encountered a set type of homeschooler, which leads to your presumptions that all homeschoolers are alike. I’m just going to respond to each of your reasons, number by number (more organized):
10. Guess what? Kids are mean. Period. Whether or not a kid was homeschooled has absolutely nothing to do with being teased. It’s universal. My dad was picked on for being short, and he was never homeschooled a day in his life. And I’m sorry, the fear of being called a geek should not be a reason for not homeschooling, because if you are smart, very knowledgeable, etc., you are likely to be insulted. It’s a fact of life. People suffering from the inferiority complex are going to make fun of you, regardless of your schooling.
9. This is where it gets personal. As a former homeschooled kid, I DIDN’T eat my Fruit Loops in my classroom. We had a dining room, and a school room. Those parts of life were kept separate.
8. I’m sorry, but since when is it selfish to want to give your kid the best education you think possible? This could also apply to parents who send their kids to private schools. AND, before you blah blah about poorer families not having a choice, there ARE some larger cities that have vouchers for “schools of choice”. Milwaukee does. Do your homework.
And, for that matter, since when do the underachievers look up to overachievers? When I did my student teaching in a public high school, those who were motivated/A students, for the most part, were self-motivated and had support from home. Those failing were goofing off and usually were latch-key kids. Maybe I just don’t know my facts, but the circumstances were suspicious…
7. As a self-proclaimed agnostic, who are you to tell those with religion or morals how to witness to the world (you included)? How can students witness when they can’t even pray in schools?
And, if you had read your Bible, you would have known that Jesus was homeschooled. Period. The gospels CLEARLY state that Jesus was taught by his mother, instead of the rabbis. And, he astonished them at the age of 12 with his scriptural knowledge. Does that make Jesus Christ a geek??
6. A GOOD homeschooling parent knows his/her limits. I was homeschooled for a semester of my freshman year, and my family relied on our co-op/support group for ideas, brainstorming, and other lesson plans. I took biology with two other girls, and our parents alternated lessons and labs. A stay-at-home mom taught my English, while my mom took care of social studies and religion. And let me tell you, by the time I got to “real” school, I realized that my mom was the TOUGHEST teacher I ever had. She knew what I was capable of and didn’t accept excuses.
And may I just say that you, as an English teacher, are ALSO not qualified to teach biology, Spanish, etc., etc. This is a classic case of the pot calling the kettle black.
5. Your reason #5 is arrogant and presumptuous, and therefore pisses me off. Are you angry that parents won’t send their kids to dine at the table of your wisdom? Are you scared that they’ll do a better job than you? Why does homeschooling piss you off? In reality, parents are STILL paying their tax dollars for a school their kids don’t go to, so it’s not as if they’re shirking their citizens’ duties.
4. It COULD breed intolerance and racism. Riiiiight…and public schooled kids are complete angels, tolerant of every race/background/sexuality. If they make fun of geeks, they’re already intellectually discriminating, so your argument is moot. Also, my evil, racist mother made a distinct point in pointing out the ways people have viewed other cultures, and how we can love others as God loves us all. Shocking, huh? I never knew that racism still existed until my freshman year in college.
And, the last time I checked out MTV (which was once in my life), there was a lot of white bread on the screen…just saying…
3. When I taught public school, I had to deal with obnoxious racial comments, teasing, and inappropriate jokes, including a butt-sex joke told WHILE I was teaching. Yep, I certainly want my children to learn that very behavior. That’s gonna teach ‘em to be responsible, successful world citizens.
2. I’m sorry, isn’t it just as much a risk to send a child to a public school? A private school? People who deliberately choose to homeschool their children and go about it the right way (because, yes, there ARE wrong ways to homeschool) more often know their strengths and limits and often work harder to be successful.
And, isn’t it arrogance on YOUR part to assume that you can do better than another college-educated individual?
1. This is my favorite. Your “not to hate, but…” proves that you ARE indeed as ignorant and prejudiced as you sound. You have deftly placed all homeschooled kids in the “jungle freak” category, where kids of all educational backgrounds reside. Well done, masterful teacher!
Your argument is offensive, because you make all homeschoolers to be religious, overzealous freaks who have no idea who to “socialize” in the real world. And yet, you accuse homeschoolers of intolerance and arrogance. There’s another cliche, that I’m sure you’re familiar with: When you point one finger, four point back to you. Check your finger…where are the other four?
I find this article fascinating. I mean, I can’t believe people actually think this way. Socialization in schools? Yeah, right.
I do not homeschool my children, but have a great desire to. I don’t see public schools as anymore than a babysitting center. How can you teach 30 kids in one room, with one teacher? Add to that that each child is so uniquely different; they each learn in their own way and the teachers just don’t have time to figure out how each child is unique.
And socialization? Yeah….maybe on their 20 minute recess break. Our kids are so rushed throughout the day and stressed out because they have to hurry to get to their classrooms, no talking; rush to lunch, no talking….You have 25 minutes to get your lunch, eat it, clean up and get to class. Sorry. I don’t buy it.
It seems to me they’re just teaching our kids to be robots and pass a test. Maybe they’ll retain 20% of what was”taught”.
Now, I know most teachers get into teaching to do something good. But in the system, as it is now, everyone is losing.
But that’s just my two cents……
I’m sorry but you sound like a liberal, “open-minded”, ignorant child. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but you publish this “Top Ten” list and none of them are valid, solid reasons. You sit up on your immoral high horse and call home schooled kids geeky. How juvenile. How pathetic. Most home schooled kids come from loving, Christian homes where there is much sacrifice to even be able to stay home and nurture your children. We homeschoolers make a decision to live on one income, however tight it may be, because we do value our kids education. We want to be in control of what enters their sponge-like minds. Kids are smart and eager to learn. Let’s not forget all the filth and garbage out there. How did you learn about sex? Some sleazy boy on the playground? I would rather my children learn the realities of the world through God’s famous “Code of Conduct” manual, the Holy Bible . I have to say, my favorite “reason” of yours is “God Hates Homeschooling”. First of all, God is a very loving God. He even loves you, the agnostic, who has refused to believe in Him. He hates only evil. That reason is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Being agnostic, how would you know anything that God “hates”. I’m sorry, but are you acknowledging that there is indeed, a God? His name is Jesus Christ and He gave his life for you. The least you could do is support Christ followers in their walk, if you refuse to find your own. Why do people care whether I think it is better to keep my child out of public schools? This country is going downhill as we speak. Right now, the government is trying to introduce politically correct terms to use when speaking to gays, and they want to have a class in public schools just for this. I’m sorry but being gay is immoral and wrong. This does not mean that I hate gay people. God says to love everyone. I plan to teach my children about gays, lesbians, all that. But I will also teach them that it is wrong. I will not teach them to ever judge or treat anyone different badly. But, I will not condone it! Someone with so much experience and so many degrees, it’s really a shame that you are not using the good mind God gave you for the greater good. God Bless.
Dear Jesse,
Having read your article against homeschoolers, I found I couldn’t couldn’t keep quiet. I went to public school until I was 6, and then was homeschooled until I graduated high school. I recently graduated from college, Summa Cum Laude, and am looking forward to beginning my career in health care.
Before I launch into your ten points I would like to point out that as soon as people heard I was homeschooled, they automatically assumed many things about me that simply put, weren’t true. All because they put me into the same “geeky, antisocial” stereotype that you have placed homeschoolers into. They called me closed- minded when all the time they were the ones who were being closed-minded.
10. “You were totally home schooled”. ~This is a stereotype. You can’t call us closed minded and then lump us all together as socially awkward, racially and religiously insensitive geeks.
9. Call me old-fashioned, but a students’ classroom shouldn’t also be where they eat Fruit Loops and meat loaf (not at the same time I hope). ~I’m not even sure this is a valid point. I mean… kids eat at school too don’t they? And tell me, are the kids in public school really that much more focused on education than homeschoolers simply because of their environment? I believe the focus depends on the kid, not the “classroom”. I have known equally successful students in both the public and homeschooled realms.
8. Homeschooling is selfish. According to this article in USA Today, students who get homeschooled are increasingly from wealthy and well-educated families. ~ This just makes me angry. I come from a middle class family that lives hand-to-mouth because of financial difficulties. I barely made through college… not because I was failing classes, but because I couldn’t afford to pay the outrageous tuition costs. Because everyone assumed we were rich, I couldn’t get any scholarships, despite my excellent grades.
7. God hates homeschooling. (Personally I’m agnostic, but I’m just saying…). ~ I think it’s hard for an agnostic to make a firm case against homeschooling based on the Bible. Since you do not believe in God, how can you say that He hates homeschooling? If there is no God, then what should it matter if He hates homeschooling?
6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. ~ Aren’t you being a bit arrogant by flaunting your degrees in our faces? When our country was just starting out, teachers didn’t have college degrees. In fact, before the Revolution, many schools were taught by… moms. Our founding fathers turned out alright…
5. As a teacher, homeschooling kind of pisses me off. (That’s good enough for #5.) ~This point shows a lot of depth, research, and thought. Enough said.
4. Homeschooling could breed intolerance, and maybe even racism. ~Immaturity and pride breed intolerance and racism. People will be intolerant and racist, no matter where they learned how to read and write.
3. And don’t give me this “they still participate in activities with public school kids” garbage. ~It’s closed minded teachers like you that make me crazy. All of my teachers in college automatically assumed I was socially inept when they heard I was homeschooled. They gave me bad marks on my professionalism because of it. The next year we had all new teachers. They didn’t know I was homeschooled, and they were surprised at the remarks my former teachers made about me. They felt it was unfair for them to assume those things about me based on my former education experiences.
2. Homeschooling parents are arrogant, Part 2. ~ The idea that homeschooling parents are taking risks by taking their kids out of school is ridiculous. Considering the threat of bullying (from students and teachers), and of school violence, it could be considered more risky to send your child to school than to keep them home.
1. And finally… have you met someone homeschooled? Not to hate, but they do tend to be pretty geeky***. ~Thank you.
The take home point is this: No matter the environment, the quality of education and social skills a kid gets in life is based upon himself. Geeks, punks, rockers, goths, jocks, potheads, bullies… Kids will be whatever they set out to be, regardless of where they were taught.
I will close with this story: I was once approached by a junior in high school from New York state. She was dressed in slutty clothes and had her face done up like a tramp. She rolled her eyes under her long mascara-coated eyelashes and said with a lazy, condescending tone,” Oh, you were homeschooled? So, do you even have a social life?” I was sorely tempted to say,” Yeah! On Saturday nights, we all go out to the fields and, and,… get this… we tip cows!!! It’s so much fun!” but I didn’t. I told her about all my friends and all the things we did together. She gave me a look that said she was not convinced and traipsed off with her friends, tittering about “that homeschool group.” I pity her. Her arrogant ignorance will keep her from making many friends. I hope you all learn from her example… Don’t stereotype us just because we “never spent a day in public school.” You’ll miss out by ignoring us “geeks”.
Jesse,
First, as part of full disclosure: Both of my children are public schooled. Both are at or near the top of their class (older just graduated summa cum laude from high school with an IB diploma, the younger just finished 7th grade at top of her class for advanced reading and advanced math).
However, while I support the concept of public school, and some of their teachers have been instrumental in their success, more of them have been significantly less so. More of their learning of most subjects (math, reading, grammar, science) comes from home than from school. We see their public school experience as an adjunct to what they’re being taught at home. Taking a broad-strokes perspective: U.S. Public schools — in their current state — aren’t as a whole sufficient for a superior education. If it were a public-vs-school option (one but not both option), I would have opted for home.
While their not having a public school education would undoubtedly have them missing the social component of childhood education, it also means all the downsides of that same interaction are avoided. Some might call it a fair trade.
Concerning the thought that a parent-educator doesn’t posses sufficient breadth of knowledge to cover the scope of curriculum a child needs, I’d counter that what they might lack in knowledge is certainly compensated, to some degree, by the parents’ caring more for their child that any “professional” educator.
In our case, while my wife and I can cover several subjects with our children very well, others to which we’re not familiar are tended to by finding other outlets through which to have them tutored. And, as mentioned before, this is all in addition to the children’s regular public school schedule.
The advantages of home schooling, in which the class size is typically very small, is that there is a lot of individualized attention. In a formal classroom, classroom instruction is often limited by the needs of the less adept student. Students who are ahead of the curve must often wait while the teacher gets the rest of the class up to speed. Should that not happen, then slower students are left behind; again, if the parent were teaching that student, they could reasonably afford to spend the time with that student without unduly delaying other students.
In our experience, public school teachers work, often necessarily, at the needs of the average student. My daughters both have had experiences in school where they are asked to read a chapter in a book by the next day. Being that they both love to read, they would often read far past that point. The reading ahead might invoke push back from the teacher, who wanted to artificially limit their pace. This sends the wrong signals to the students, and can pit the parents against the teachers (as it has in our case).
Don’t get me wrong: I appreciate the efforts teachers as a whole. I wouldn’t want their job, and I think the profession is sorely underpaid and under appreciated. It must be tough to juggle the differing needs of so many students in a given classroom, in order to maximize the instruction while attempting to keep order. Too many parents aren’t being part of the solution.
But what about those parents who are? If teaching in and of itself is difficult, and if they are to take up the challenge with their own children, and if they posses a good base of basic information and a means to convey that to their children, who are you to ridicule them? For many parents, this must be from a desire to help their children as much as they feel they can, regardless of the effort. Sending a child to a public school requires little effort, practically akin to socialized daycare.
Perhaps, societally, we need to change how children are taught. Parents do need to be more of the solution, some sort of participation, even if it is to carefully instill an understanding of the importance of education to their child from day one. This child could still benefit from public school. But please to suggest that parents don’t have significant amounts to offer their children educationally, lest the complete burden of responsibility be foisted on your shoulders. I doubt they’d handle the burden.
Im am VERY sorry but I am homchooled and i AM a christian! God DOES NOT i repeat NOT hate homeschooling! Where do u think the kids in the bible went to skool? a building? good gracious!
And im not a geek, i havnt ever been told that im funny, and weird! they dont even believe i am homeschooled!
I am srry but that is WRONG!
When I mention to people that I was homeschooled, they usually ask whether I liked it and whether I would consider homeschooling my own children. I tell them that I liked it a lot and would strongly consider it, although every family is different and lives in a different situation. Frequently, in response, the first thing I hear is: “doesn’t homeschooling stunt a kid’s social development?”
I usually manage not to laugh too loud. Yes, Mr. Tact, it does. As a product of homeschooling, I’m doomed to an emotionally empty life of stumbling from faux pas to awkward silence and back again endlessly. Why, just this morning I accidentally implied that a new acquaintance was socially stunted due to a bad upbringing. Can you imagine how embarrassing it is to let such words slip across one’s tongue? Sticks and stones are nothing next to how my own words can hurt me. If only I’d been sent to a public school like yours, I’d have had someone to interact with when I was young besides my parents, my siblings, my neighbors, my church, the kids on my baseball and swimming teams, books, movies, Paul Harvey, television, museums, the internet, town fairs, science fairs, professional storytellers hired by the local homeschooler’s association, and the occasional ASL interpretor who used to travel the country with my Dad.
Yep, I think even one recess bully might have done the trick and spared me all this misery.
Just think, I could have been a real boy…but actually, life as a geek isn’t so bad.
I especially liked point #6 which includes the following:
“6. Homeschooling parent/teachers are arrogant to the point of lunacy. For real! My qualifications to teach English include a double major in English and education, two master’s degrees (education and journalism), a student teaching semester and multiple internship terms, real world experience as a writer, and years in the classroom dealing with different learning styles. So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me? …”
This last sentence makes for a perfect rebuttal to the question posed. It turns out the sentence reflects improper grammar. It is an adverbial clause of comparison in which the last word “me” should be replaced with the correct form of the personal pronoun in the nominative case, “… teach English as well as I?” Any English teacher with far fewer credentials than those above should know this. This only serves to further reinforce the point that homeschoolers, in spite of not possessing many formal credentials, just might be able to do a decent job teaching their own kids themselves, even English grammar.
Grammatically yours,
Russ (a homeschool dad with a copy of The New Webster’s Grammar Guide)
Pingback: Twitted by Mommy2Divaz
I don’t homeschool because I fear society. I do homeschool because it best meets the needs of the child I homeschool.
However, if you want a breakdown of my problems with this post, I’ve been much more thorough in my own blog.
You sir, are just one of the many reasons I choose to home educate my children. I am assuming the photo on your header is of some of your students. Are the hand signs they’re making indicative of the kind of socialization my kids are missing out on? Thanks, but no thanks.
My children are not geeks. They are not loners. My oldest son, who just graduated from our homeschool in a beautiful ceremony with 12 other homeschoolers, is a sponsored skateboarder. He is in fact, pretty cool. He has lots of friends, homeschooled, public schooled, church schooled and yes even a few dropouts- of hispanic, white, black and asian ethnicity. I was shocked to find out in your diatribe that my son will be a racist because he is only around people just like him. I learn something new everyday!
My middle son is on the shy side, but he was that way long before we homeschooled. It must have been that private school that screwed him up that way. Interestingly enough, even though he is shy, he has several friends too! They even hang out on a regular basis doing geeky things like hiking, roping and riding, fishing, camping, playing video games, going to movies and *gasp* texting on their cell phones. I am so glad you enlightened me and now I know a brick building, in a room with four walls, with kids who know wrestling signs, slang words, and what it is like to be bullied is where my boy belongs. My bad.
Finally, my 5 year old who has never been priveleged enough to set foot in a public education institution, is a normal 5 year old who doesn’t know anything about sex, broken families, gay marriage etc. That is how it should be at 5 years old.
When I first read your essay I assumed it was satire because it was just so ignorant and over the top. Sadly, I discovered, you were serious. To think you are a teacher….. Wow, just wow.
In point #6, you ask the following question, “So, first of all, homeschooling parent, you think you can teach English as well as me?”
Since you obviously aren’t aware that you should be using the word “I” instead of “me” in your clause, I’d have to say that I can teach it at least as well, if not better, than you. Of course, I’ve also taught professionally in both the private and public school sectors. And, amazingly enough, I was never bothered by, nor threatened professionally by, any who chose to homeschool their children.
Oh, and I started off as a biology major, took art for six years, and graduated with a major in English with a minor in classics/philosophy/logic. My husband is an electrical engineer. So, yeah, I think we’re more than competent to teach our two children in pretty much any subject area.
Wow! Your article reeks of hatred towards families who choose to teach their children at home. You are taking this way too personal. You need to realize that a parent has the right to give their children the